Shigeru Miyamoto Thinks You Should Give Star Fox Zero Another Try

No, Shigeru, no! Bad Shigeru! Funny how he picked his own game. You know what else is really fun? Online multiplayer. A reason to play the game beyond its very short campaign. You know, the reason we still play games like Splatoon and Mario Kart 8. And let's not forget the ~cough~ controls ~cough~.

Toki Tori 2 is Wii U's most underappreciated game. It's brilliant. People look at it and dismiss it because of its aesthetics but that is a major mistake. The game is genius and I bought it for €3 during an eShop Christmas sale. Best €3 I've ever spent on a game. Buy it, you won't regret it.

i liked Zero, besides it's not like Starwing or Lylat Wars were huge long games either

Bingo Battle is great!

As commented under a Mighty No. 9 article by another NLer: while Mighty No. 9 was universally acknowledged to be bad, the "not-as-good" Nintendo games always get apologetic articles explaining how "we didn't get it".

My own Wii U game received less than stellar reviews when it launched. I spent months working hard to improve it with updates, but no one cared.

You don't get second chances in this industry. The internet has judged and moved on.

@JamesCoote
Which game was it, for the sake of curiosity?

@JamesCoote Yep. Just like TMS #FE. The UK charts will be up here shortly but it's sank without trace after only 1 week.

Edit: And here's partly why.

I'm still trying to find somewhere to buy the Fortissimo Edition but the more I see of what they did to this game and how they treat us like kids, the more p!ssed off I get and think, "you don't deserve my money". And buying it supports Nintendo's notion that this practise is acceptable and that we're OK with it.

In other words Miyamoto still thinks we're children. In most cases, he's right considering the internet is filled children who knows nothing but to swear and troll.

@AlexSora89 Totem Topple. Not going to pretend, even after all the improvements and new features, that it's anywhere near as good as Star Fox.

But seen it happen to other games as well. In the indie games world, there's loads of stories and stats from people who go from early access to full launch, only to find they get even less coverage and interest that when they first went into early access. You only get one launch, and if you go for early access, that's it!

The exception is staggeted launch on multiple platforms. If we weren't talking about Nintendo here, then might be when the PS4 or Xbox version launches months later, that the game gets a second look by all the websites, youtubers etc who specialise in PlayStation or Xbox and didn't cover it when it launched on Wii U.

If Star Fox arrives on NX, then that would justify a second look. Doubly so as the NX we assume, will have a different conyrol scheme, and the controls were the biggest point of frustration and disagreement between reviewers

Wonderful 101

I've hardly played Bingo Battle, but I agree that Pikmin 3 is up there with the Wii U's best. Personally I prefer Bayonetta 2 and Splatoon, but I would expect him to prefer his own game.

I went into Starfox Zero without any preconceptions and thought it was pretty good, but it was a mistake not to offer a classic control scheme.

I think Super Luigi U is the most under appreciated game, but I'm the only person who loves that game.

I'd like to give Starfox a chance but from everything I've read the off-screen mode isn't very fun and since I use the Wii U in off-screen mode 90% of the time it's just not worth it to me. The same goes for Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE which has no off-screen mode.

"Star Fox Zero is a great game" - Debatable.

I'll MAYBE get it once it enters the Nintendo Selects line.

Star Fox is much better the more times you go back. The controls are still not perfect but I had a lot more fun when I went back and learnt how to play it better. I plan to go back to pikmin 3 again soon, haven't really touched it since I finished the single player 3 years ago but did like it a lot. The drought before NX is good for checking out neglected Wii U games again

I'll just leave this review of SF Zero here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJg1M3cfqrU

(Seriously, this guy makes valid points and needs more exposure.)

@JamesCoote
Will look it up after lunch. Best of luck with everything!

I'm looking at going back to Starfox, Guard, Bayonetta 1, and Kirby as games I know there is more to be had out of. I enjoyed my first play through of Star Fox, but I think it's the sort of game that the more accustomed you become with the controls, the more fun iti is. I think at 50 hours I've got the mainstay of Pikmins' worth already.

I did buy a PS4 to fill in the gaps in the Wii U schedule, but currently I find that to be barren of stuff I want to play until FF15 and The Last Guardian come out.

I find it weird that Mutant Mudds is only well known among gamers. Super fun game and great to replay. would've been a mainstay had it been on the SNES.

But this: "and it's getting harder and harder for people to let a game to sink in and enjoy leisurely." This hit home with me. The trials of being an adult gamer! Affording all the games you wanted when you were younger, except now we have no time to enjoy them all. I love video games, work with them now and still feel like that.

The market has changed since the movement toward downloads. Indie developers are able to profit from the "consumable" gaming trend and offer more affordable prices to match the size and quality of their games. Why should I pay a set price of $60 for a game when I can get one that's half the length but just as fun off the eshop for 10-15? He can't blame us for shopping smart!

I think that the Starfox development team must have given Miyamoto a version of the game without the ATV stages. Because personally, I NEVER want to experience broken design like that in a first party Nintendo title again. Was awful.

@FullbringIchigo Except both Lylatwars and Starwing were original, inventive and high quality releases. Starfox Zero was a poor remake of 64.

Starfox Zero is that one game I just couldn't stand. Fighting the pig (at the second stage I believe) made me turn off my console. It was just constant (real) barrel rolling and U-turning and then you have to catch him on your bottom screen for that 0.5 seconds because God knows why you can't aim with your TV screen instead but you are forced to look or otherwise you can't see where the big is and to hit him or he will just fly out of sight and right back behind you where it prompts you to do step 1 all over again

Oh, and I never played a Starfox game in my life and came in with high hopes

Have to agree pikmin is underrated

@SLIGEACH_EIRE Nintendo kinda deserves it after screwing over the localization. I don't know how they thought censorship and pandering to families would make the game sell better. It was always a niche game (even moreso here than in Japan) and would sell poorly either way.

@HydroTendonMan
" The trials of being an adult gamer! Affording all the games you wanted when you were younger, except now we have no time to enjoy them all."
I hear you!

@HydroTendonMan "The trials of being an adult gamer! Affording all the games you wanted when you were younger, except now....."

Except now Nintendo still treats us like we're kids.

Affordable Space Adventures is a massively underrated game, that arguably does a better job with the Gamepad than many of Nintendo's own games.

@Snow-Dust Don't let Zero put you off- Starfox and Starfox 64 are both AAA games. Zero was a poor remake of 64 with no soul, atmosphere or technical finesse.

Ya Pikmin 3, now that's a gem.

@HappyMaskedGuy I won't let Zero affect me too badly. I know the feels of an odd ball in a franchise (oh other M, you sicken me) and I will definitely retry a Starfox game when the time is right (be it a new one or the 64 where it seems universally praised)

The asteroid field level in Zero was one of the biggest disappointments in the game- especially considering how fantastic the N64 stage was. Zero took everything that was great about SF64 and reproduced it in a bland, dated and soulless way. SF64 is still a masterclass in technical skill and gameplay. It was, and still is, a blockbuster of a game.

i paid 60$ for 2hr story mode ?!! really ?

Starfox Zero is Miyamoto's Phantom Menace. Once is more than enough thanks!

@peeks Starfox games are more about replaying the game over and over, opening branching paths and getting high scores. But I agree, the formula needed updating. I wouldn't even mind so much if each and every level was absolutely brilliant. But alas, no.

I still enjoyed LEGO City Undercover more than any other Wii U game. It's too bad that the console sold so poorly that it's unlikely to see a Wii U sequel (the 3DS prequel notwithstanding).

@mjhopkins81 had that on my 'to buy' list for a while. Glad to hear more praise for it

So Nintendo wants more people to buy the game in spite of the harsh reception, instead of releasing a demo so you can give it "a try" and see for yourself... Nintendo making much sense, as usual. It's ridiculous.

Pikmin PVP
Make it happen.

Honestly, it's time for Miyamoto to step down now. He's been producing more miss than hits lately. He is just too unwilling to grow with the industry. For the people who say SS wasnt his decision but just his suggestion then picture this. A man who holds a title of being a legendary game designer came in to your office one day and "suggested" to remove the story. You, as an employee, works in that same company as this legendary designer (You and your team members working on SS are new no less), would you dare to say no to him?

The Bingo Battle on Pikmin 4. The one problem I had with it is that they put a map on the Gamepad screen (showing where all the items are) while the TV doesnt have it. My girlfriend preferred the Wii remote controls but she was lost the whole time and I have the map on my screen but I just dont want to look at it as she is already at the disadvantage playing against me. It's just they could've tried to even out the playing field a bit more but nope, they give the gamepad user more advantage

@SLIGEACH_EIRE Only by Nintendo

@VanillaLake Nintendo move slower than a sloth hiking up a glacier. I gave up on reasonable expectations long ago.

No, Zero was a bad game. The focus on "innovative" gameplay completely ruined the experience. The story wasn't lackluster, it was downright bad, and I mean the writing and voice acting. The game was limited by its controls and it really could've used a multiplayer mode to increase the replayability. And I haven't even started on the graphics. Held back by the ridiculous idea that the game should render two screens at the same time. I was looking forward to Zero, but it was garbage.

I don't really understand why Pikmin is mentioned here. The control schemes always seemed to make alot of sense and most people were pretty comfortable with dual analog during the Gamecube run. The game was critically acclaimed out the gate. It just seems like a comparison he "wants" to make rather than one that makes alot of sense to me.

@cleveland124 it's Bill Trinnan, Miyamotos lap servant. Of course he's going to recommend another Miyamoto game. Maybe he will get a treat for it.

I bought Zero, I don't regret it, but I hardly spent any time playing it because I was (and still am) hooked on Hyrule Warriors Legends.

Oh well, as mentioned out there, looks that feeling angry, lament, upset, feeling disappointed in the internet is more important to enjoy the videogames; well, something already natural on the Internet nowadays...

@HappyMaskedGuy The problem with a 2-hour game (and that's bad even for an on-rail shooter in 2016) is that the controls should be innovative immediately. Don't tell me to play Star Fox Zero for four or five hours to learn to appreciate its backwards controls, when the game itself is only two hours long. I finished the game and it still felt as if I was stumbling through the levels instead of actually knowing what I was doing.

Pikmin 3... I tried it, didn't like it, didn't 'get' it, didn't touch it again for months... When I gave it another shot, it just seemed to click. Absolutely love that game, my son too, he's five but he has absolutely adored it for over a year. And Bingo Battle! Amazing, we actually only started playing that very recently, great fun.

Never gave StarFox Zero a chance, but the controls are the least of my problems, quite the opposite I always wanted to try them out, but I'm getting overwhlemed by RPGs this year, I have no time for a cruise in space!!!

@HappyMaskedGuy Any Nintendo excuse is valid: that you don't have a sibling, that you don't have enough time (even though the game is pretty short), what's next? However, they still want you to buy it without trying it first. Suspicious behaviour that they have many ideas, they can think of many reasons and excuses, but they won't let you try the game.

@Phil_Kavadias

It's true, but I think the less affordable part is the key here. I remember growing up with the SNES. I would get 3 games a year. We didn't have online and I didn't have subscriptions so I was going into many purchases blind. And I had the occasional go off the rails parent .

So since I only got 3 games, I played the crap out of them. Obviously I spent a great deal of time with the NIntendo classics everyone here knows and loves. But I also spent a great deal of time with some turds, because they were my turds. Sometimes I'm a little nastolgic for those turds because I spent so much time learning and getting good at those games. Other times, I'm glad I'll never have to play them again.

We'll try to summarize really quick. If I had options, I wouldn't have played some of those games, at least not nearly as much. I mean I certainly don't wish that in 2016 I would have to blindly pick 3 games and stick with them. The other part of the problem is there are just so many good games now. Way too many for someone with a job to enjoy. So yeah, it makes it easier to move onto the next game, because it could be a game I'll enjoy much more. Not that I'm necessarily leaving a bad game. But I can't play them all unfortunately.

@Octane totally agree- the control scheme would make much more sense if the campaign was longer, with a steadily escalating difficulty to match the players growth into the controls. I wanted more levels, and more innovation.

Remember the start of the first level, where you are flying above Corneria, and can use the gamepad to look down and see the bombs and explosions on the planet surface below, before flying down into the planets atmosphere? That for me was the highlight of the game- I wanted more cinematic WOW moments like that in the game. Experiences that really justified the control scheme.
But nope.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE I suppose I see where you are coming from, but I'm not gonna get into a censorship argument, there are too many of them. I'm just saying I really think you should get the game anyway. It's an incredibly good game, an one which I'm sure you'll love. Whilst you may be annoyed about censorship, don't let that be the reason why you don't experience this great game.

@VanillaLake Nintendo don't trust their consumer base, pure and simple. They don't trust us not to hack demos, they don't trust us not to look at boobies, they don't even trust us to play their games properly now for Crimminy sake! In an industry where most console players are adults now- Nintendo need to wake up and evolve. Give me innovation- but don't tell me I'm too dumb or too lazy to 'get' it.

From what I seen the game is short, there is no classic multiplayer, and you're forced to use motion controls. I feel like all 3 of those shouldn't have been a problem from the start if he wanted to be more accessible to a bigger audience.
If he wants us to give it a try then they should release a demo for us to try.

@MJInnocent

I've quite games because I wasn't feeling them, or didn't have the appropriate amount of time to play them right then. I'm not sure Star Fox Zero would be one I'd pick up if I stopped playing though.

On a different note, I saw One in Las Vegas last week. Great show.

@Phil_Kavadias In my case, even though I don't have much time, if I really like a game, I try to 100% it (except for multiplayer achievements, weird trophies and things like that, I mean the main "game"). With so many games out there, I can understand that people don't spend much time with a game that they are not really enjoying or that feels more like a chore than like a pleasure.

@Lizuka I think no game should take days of play to be fun, especially since games can be returned to the store (Within 24 hours here in Holland), so if the game isn't fun in that time, people are going to return it.

There's only one chance to make a good first impression, after all...

@HappyMaskedGuy I agree with you, and I doubt this will change with NX. They'll just do what they always do.

Miyamoto;
"Play my game!"

"We did."

Miyamoto;
"You didn't play it properly!"

Bill Trinnan;
"Pikmin is also misunderstood by you all."
gazes adoringly up at Miyamoto

I Get Miyamoto's view. Games are meant to be enjoyed and savored. Were in an age where we take for granted the games we get. Starfox Zero, a game that took a good few years to develop, could be beaten in a few days and then the player moves on to a new game. We no longer play games for the heart of it, we rush through them to complete them and call that it. When I was 4 I played weeks of Adventure island 2 and Bubble Bobble: Rainbow Island just becuase I loved those games and the experience they gave me. Its not a bad thing, but this does ask are we trully experiencing the games we say we love?

@patbacknitro18
Exactly, video games are to be enjoyed, have fun, but as I repeat, now the fun is complain, feel disappointed in the internet...
oh well...

@Snow-Dust I'd recommend you Star Fox 64 3D if you have a Nintendo 3DS, it's the best Star Fox game. I also love Star Fox Adventure (GameCube) but that is an adventure game.

@Snow-Dust Oh what is SS? You guys should not use acronyms so much! It could be Skyward Sword but it could be anything else out of context.

@VanillaLake Thank you for the suggestion. I was about to live the life of a pirate until you gave me this alternative

Sticker Star lol

Q) What do you make of this picks, and what would you say is the Wii U's most underappreciated game?

A) I've yet to play either Star Fox Zero or Pikmin 3, but do have access to both (though the latter is going to be a birthday present for my brother), so I can't really comment on whether they are underappreciated or not. I am interested in getting around to playing Star Fox Zero, though can't yet due to my backlog, but I'm excited in playing with it's unique gamepad features. Heck, the control methods are why I decided to purchase Star Fox Zero.

As for what I'd say is the Wii U's most underappreciated game... I'd likely say Project Zero: Maiden of Black Water, though it does help that it is my 2nd favourite game on Wii U. A part of it's lack of appreciation is admittedly down to it's lack of a physical release.

I feel Sonic & All Stars Racing Transformed doesn't receive as much appreciation as it should after Mario Kart 8 released, and Wonderful 101 is often pointed out as an underappreciated game on Wii U. I'm not sure what indie/eShop games I'd name as underappreciated on Wii U.

@Snow-Dust LOL Sticker Star was another mess, yep.

@cleveland124 Yeah it's like talking about a good game whenever a bad game is being criticised. It doesn't make any sense, specially since they belong to different genres and franchises.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE I will try toki tori now..thanks man you convinced me..you should be proud my friend !

@patbacknitro18 This wouldnt be a problem if Nintendo added in an online mode or even just multiplayer though. Do you expect us to play through the game over and over again with these atrocious controls.

@Souldin I got Starfox Zero for the controls too but it is really bad. Im not even joking, I usually like unique controls done right as I'm an avid believer that certain genre requires certain controls (touch-base for tower defense, classic controller for platformers, mouse and keyboard for shooters and motion control for whatever I cant think of at the moment)

The most under-appreciated game IMO is acutally Sonic Lost World, it was a very solid platformer. Once you learn how to Parkour, it is a huge blast to play and fly through the levels.

@VanillaLake It is and I blame Miyamoto for suggesting an idea to a bunch of new employees. How can they say no? it's just not possible and if the game still bombed, think about how Miyamoto would've reacted to the group then for not following his advice.

Firstly, Nintendo is lying when they say Pikmin 3 was underrated:

http://www.metacritic.com/game/wii-u/pikmin-3

http://www.metacritic.com/game/wii-u/star-fox-zero

Secondly, what has Pikmin to do with Star Fox Zero? This is like if somebody says, "Oh, you know, I really tried to like Star Fox Zero but I hated it after a while" and I answer, "Yes but Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed is a great game, isn't it?" What the...

Starfox Zero still sucks

@Souldin Agreed about Maiden of Black Water, it would also be my answer to @Damo 's question.

i still haven't touched the game. I barely have time to play on my Wii U since I have a new baby. Most of my gaming is done on my 3DS. So I can't say whether I hate the game or not. Maybe once my kids are back in school and I only have my baby to look after then I can get back into the game. But honestly is the man not allowed to have an opinion? God forbid it differs from the rest of you. I swear all gamers do this days is complain, complain and complain.

He's right though. People ARE starting to see games as consumable products instead of the packages of fun they are. And I, for one, can fully support how fun Bingo Battle is. It's a GREAT mode. However, I still have to get around to getting Star Fox Zero.

@Snow-Dust But you don't know who to trust at Nintendo these days. New Super Mario Bros. 2 was made by younger staffers and it is rubbish, while Splatoon was also made by younger staffers and it is a good game. I used to love Miyamoto in the past, but both Miyamoto and Iwata have shoehorned their eccentric ideas and lowered Nintendo's quality standards.

My rule before buying a Wii u game: must support off TV play. If it doesn't I am disappointed. Just like with costume quest 2 and fatal frame. He is right about people not having much time to play. 8 months out of the year I'm working 6 days a week and with my first son on the way I need to be able to play in bite sized chunks in any room if my house.

@Snow-Dust First off, thank you for the reply. I'll have to form my own opinion once I get around to properly investing time with the game, but the brief hour or so of training and the first level proved quite fun, albeit tricky. I seemed to have a decent handle on the walker.

For shooters, I'd have to go with motion controls. I love playing the likes of House of the Dead with light guns, and the Wii gave me great FPS experiences like the Red Steel games. Then again, as someone who has barely played a game with a keyboard since the Amiga, I wouldn't really know how well I feel they do for a shooter.

I've played Sonic Lost World, and I'm not sure I'd term it underappreciated. It has some fantastic ideas with it and is filled with plenty of potential, but I also feel the game lacks polish. Some bosses are destroyed within seconds, parkour can be rather finicky in 2D sections, and those air stages were insanely frustrating. I suppose given that I've seen many people dismiss it outright and ignore the good ideas it has, I'd agree that it is underestimated in that sense, but overall I'd claim it as an average to above average experience.

@VanillaLake I assume Bill Trinnen brought up Pikmin 3 because he genuinely thought of it as underrated. Perhaps he thought it should be rated even higher, or that he is basing it off of sales and feel it is underrated in the sense that he feels more people should have purchased it. It's like saying Platinum Games are underrated, as whilst they tend to get good reviews (as far as I'm aware), they rarely sell in huge numbers or at least very quickly.

I've seen your praises about Project Zero: Maiden of Black Water before, so I had a pretty good feeling you'd agree. Thanks for the reply.

@HappyMaskedGuy oh yes i agree it wasn't as good but i still found it fun

then again i also liked Star Fox Assault so who am i to judge?

@patbacknitro18 "Starfox Zero, a game that took a good few years to develop".
A few would imply 3 or more. That's not true, it took less than 2 years to develop.

"could be beaten in a few days".
The game can be completed 100% in mere hours.

pikmin 3 or wonderful 101. Starfox is mediocrity and they know it.

The same problem seems to be rearing its ugly head yet again. Nintendo and especially Miyamoto are simply out of touch of what gamers actually need and want. Starfox was a fun little romp for a demo, but for a full priced retail release - Guys you have to try MUCH harder. I think the issue stems from the old saying that you cannot teach an old dog a new trick. The elders at nintendo are simply not moving forward with the times.

The biggest flaw these guys have is the word 'FUN' either they are using extremely confused focus groups and testers, or they simply do not want to listen. It would seem that if they think something is FUN then that is fine and it is guaranteed to sell.

A successful game needs to captivate the player and invite them into an experience. The experience should include moderate and some difficult challenges, and encourage exploration. Furthermore having no online multiplayer is an absolute no-no in this age. Of course we are happy to conquer a game alone and try to enjoy it (ahem controls) but once we have done that and mastered our barrel roll - we want to take our friends and a few strangers out.

We do not need you to hold our hand or give us specific instructions on what to do next. Let us work out a way to get through the barrier instead of prompting us every 10 seconds.

Finally spend some time perfecting a new graphics engine or several. Cutesy cartoon graphics only work in certain areas. An example would be project guard. Truthfully its a pile of rubbish that is simply no better than a mobile game.

What happens if we placed some atmospheric lighting, a nerve jangling soundtrack to really drive the adrenalin, and some kick arse weapons to dispatch those foes. Give it a HD sheen and bring it up to date with live video commentary from other outposts. You have a lot to learn about setting a mood.

The same can be said for the first hands on with the new Zelda. Yes you have given us an open world to explore but nothing is grabbing us and saying come this way or what happens if I .. dammit the floor just gave way! It needs a much better sense of pace and a general direction. Hands on time left me feeling meh. I love Zelda as I love most ninty games, but what I played was pretty much a sandbox with no real concept. Let's hope that the guys at Nintendo are holding a lot back, because as it stands it is simply a pot of ideas that do not seem to gel together.

Back to Starfox : This is also the case. Miyamoto has clearly asked his team what bits work and what bits they like and they have literally thrown together a few elements and called it an experience. When you are charging £50 for a game it needs to be £50 worth of playtime, fun, experience and a sense of achievement for beating it. Instead you see the credits roll and think are you kidding me? Then you think ok I'll hit the other paths and gain another hour or so of play. Oh but wait I have to fly through the exact same areas to get there yawn. I know I'll challenge my friends online! - Um....

@Souldin Yep, my only piece of advice for people that want to give Maiden of Black Water a try is to not display the map on the GamePad by default, because otherwise you have to tap the touchscreen whenever a fight begins losing precious time and feeling disoriented. If you want to check the map, do it on the TV. Also, I would suggest standing up for all battles.

The thing is that motion controls work on Maiden of Black Water, they are logical and make sense (GAMEPAD CAMERA = GHOST CAMERA), while in Star Fox Zero they are more an issue than a benefit.

@Souldin indeed it is the best for you to form your own opinion in the end of the day.

Oh yes, motion controls are fabulous with shooters. I loved Splatoon so much and Metroid Blast on Nintendo Land. I completely forgot about that for a moment but mouse and keyboard are still superior controls compared to the classic controller.

I just find a lot of Lost World's complaint unwarranted beside the difficulty spike but i like hard platformers so it doesn't bother me but I still understand where they are coming from

I think it's unappreciated for sure. Some people were convinced they were going to hate it from the get go.

@HappyMaskedGuy Absolutely my point exactly re the cinematics! It comes across as nintendo not having an idea of having to build a story. Instead the do a flashy intro which prob takes up most of their resources and then figure to leave the crucial wow factors out of the game.

I say get him working with Platinum as an intern. Now those guys know how to rock a gamers world. They still do cutesy and lul us into a false sense of security then Bam all hell breaks loose.

Wonderful 101 massively underrated. Yes it had a few flaws in control but story and experience were simply sublime. You took a massive breathe when you finished it and not once are you left going oh is that it? Instead the user is simply startled at what they have just experienced.

@VanillaLake I have to use my computer chair for battles, so I can spin around chasing the ghosts.

@MADGAZ I agree with the whole comment, including the Zelda bits. Even though I haven't tried it, what was shown looked quite dull and uninspired. I'm pretty confident that the final game will have more content and surprises, but I didn't understand why people got so amazed about what was shown at E3, because what was shown was just a big and empty world that shouldn't blow anybody's mind when there are tons of open-world games (with rich visuals) nowadays. I have a feeling that Twilight Princess is older but better, but I'll find out once I get the new Zelda game.

I'll probably buy Pikmin 3 later.

I tried out Star Fox Zero yesterday, and while I didn't HATE the controls, they felt overly imprecise, and the game just felt like a chore in all-range mode. Would not buy.

@VanillaLake Yep it was very much a case of that area that you see over there with some baddies, you can get there kill them and collect a few bits - then you need to seek another area. I am hopeful that several elements were removed to ensure that the first showing did not glitch or crash.

What concerns me is the amount of praise that Ninty seem proud of in creating these small campsite areas. The rep says "it is so that the user knows where to find things to do" Now this may aid the narrative in some weird way, but it certainly doesn't give any sense of exploration. Instead its like here kids this is camp 1 and once you finish this someone in camp 2 will have a box that requires a key from camp 3.

In almost 40 minutes of play including 2 shrines we only experienced 2 'WOW' moments where we thought actually that was pretty cool. Let's just hope this is a very early build.

I takes the entire duration of the game to adapt to the controls. By the time you have it figured out and are having fun, the game is over. You can go back and replay the levels (which I did a few times), but not everybody wants to do that. Bill's comment rings true to this. Games are becoming a consumable thing and many people will just play it through once and move on to the next one. You can't do anything about that though.

The fight with Pigma in Star Fox Zero was freaking painful though. You couldn't just chase him and shoot him. You had to keep doing U-Turns and Barrel rolls in the same place to get a shot at hitting him. I turned the game off for a week after that fight.

Also, I personally believe Pikmin 3 is the best game on the system, next to Mario 3D World.

EDIT: also somehow forgot to mention Bayonetta 2 as one of the best games on the Wii U. Haven't had my coffee yet, obviously.

Lol

Play more Tropical Freeze and Bayonetta 2

The thing is that its exactly like Lylat Wars.

Its the overall design that its almost the same as Lylat (with the obvious graphic update of course).

I played the original SNES game
then i played the N64 version. I-T W-A-S ABSOLUTELY SPECTACULAR!
then... playing the Wii U version i saw the same graphic guidelines and the same stages of the N64 version with no true-new-creative design.

Also it misses some MUST-HAVE features such as:

1. Online Co-op
2. Online Battles

But the thing that made me sad the most, was as i said the overall design. I think its not very... 2016... it was like the game was made for wii and then was transferred in WiiU with better graphics...

It seems just like the Zelda T.P. situation. An old game remaked but not usign the TRUE power of the new console because the game was made for an older system.

Pikmin 3 had poor replay value thanks to the annoying juice system on story mode and the lack of extras, everything locked on DLC.

@VanillaLake Yeah I agree- Breath of the Wild didn't look as visually good as it's first reveal, and the environment looks barren. I want settlements and towns with meaningful interactions with NPCs, and an emotionally engaging tone that deals with issues like death and loss.
Majoras Mask was fantastic in that it connected the player to the world with dark beauty and engaging, imaginative side quests that brought the world to life. Wind Waker, LBW, Skyward Sword and even Twilight Princess lacked this, though to be fair Skyward Sword was a bit more cinematic.
Ocarina and Majoras Mask made me feel for the characters of the world, allowing greater emotional and imaginative immersion in the game. They were tremendous.

Am I the only one who enjoyed this game? The controls did take a bit of getting used to, but it all comes together nicely during the second playthrough.

Feels like Other M all over again. I maintain I'm the only person on the internet who liked that game...

Captain Toad is my pick.

@SakuraHaruka
That's true.
Some of the comments are downright disgusting.

Time for Miyamoto to move on.

He keeps trying to tell me how to have fun, maybe he should ask players what they think is fun? He has obviously lost his touch. I think it all started with Wii music, he has gone completely bat poop crazy since then.

I really enjoy Star Fox but the problem is it tried to sell itself on that control scheme and that control scheme is rough as hell. Bit like Kid Icarrus: I enjoyed everything but the actual controls.

@LegendOfPokemon bingo... you have summed up my thoughts perfectly, it's like it could have easily been such a good game. What the whole dual screen mechanic that they were so damned intent on bringing to the game really do miss that, I do have some fun times with it, but it feels like I am trying to force myself to have fun.

@LegendOfPokemon The game forces you too look at the gamepad for more precise shots. It's literally. The whole point of having motion controls is for precise shots, but they make the T.V. cursor off a smidge so you need the game pad.

I bet people have adapted and know where to shoot on the t.v., but I don't have time for that.

Star Fox Zero sucks. Miyamoto failed to make a compelling game.

@LUIGITORNADO No profanity please - remember the Community Rules. Thanks.

@LUIGITORNADO Those are 2 great games worth replaying!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IceMIN7wzAk

@MysticX wow that's different... in the US it's impossible to return a opened DVD or game unless it's a return for defect (then replacement for the same item only)

@Rin-go
'Some of the comments are downright disgusting'

Okay, I think that is a bit of an exaggeration. People are allowed to critique things, you know.

@HappyMaskedGuy Absolutely agree about Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. You described Majora's Mask very well, I cared a lot about the characters and theirs stories to the point that I wrote down all the events and timeline (the game did not have a proper Bomber Notebook until the 3DS remake).

Agree on Pikmin. Disagree on SF0. The controls ruin the game. Simple as that.

If there was ever a game that needed a demo its this one, at least to give people a chance to try the controls for free. It won't grab everyone but it may tilt those on the fence out of fear of not liking or being unable to get used to them.

Although the best would be to try and produce a custom level that shows the areas where the controls can be of some benefit in the game.

@HappyMaskedGuy yes... and the damn gyro copter levels, was so slow and feels out of place. Maybe a spin off game, or mini game, but I bought star fox to fly and shoot, not move boxes and bombs around

The most underrated Wii U game is definitely Lego city undercover, I had a lot of fun with the game and the use of the gamepad is really nice

If you have not play it yet give the game a try

@MADGAZ Thanks for your impressions, I like gamers' impressions more than websites' articles lately. I guess that instead of spreading chests around an empty huge world they decided to make "points" where a few baddies and chests lie. That's good for a small segment of a game, like in Twilight Princess's desert, but it's not a good world design idea. It would be better to have small villages where all the important stuff is and spread the heart pieces (if the developers are going to include them) around the world. Also, I have noticed how Nintendo is too proud of making changes to their franchises instead of perfecting them as a gaming experience (one of the reasons why Skyward Sword disappointed me so much).

@Danrenfroe2016 Hear Hear! Those gyro levels reminded me of mediocre third party Gamecube games. If anything Miyamoto should probably distance himself from SF Zero. It's not a flattering product.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE sony also had censorship in Star ocean V, it's not just nintendo you see. expect persona 5 to be hit with similar things also if they the same kinda content like they in the past. (times change it sucks i know, if the flintstones ran on tv they would censor the "have a gay old time" also)

@HappyMaskedGuy I hope you dont think the Oracles are trash as they are the best handheld zeldas imo hands down. ALTTP was a very wonderful game too. MM is fabulous that the side missions actually makes you want to do the side mission as each one is so unique and different (not like modern gaming one where they generate the same boring missions) but the problem with MM is that the side missions are sooooooo much better than the main mission

I want, with all my might, to like SFZero. I Started off enjoying it but the controls are slowly wrecking that. I thought they clicked but sharp turns and what would/should otherwise be easy navigating feels labored.

The game should be 'longer' because I keep dying.

Also there's something condescending about the 'play like an elementary schooler' comment that I really dislike.

"I think that hardly anyone realizes that the multiplayer bingo battle mode was literally the best new multiplayer mode that has been created since Smash Bros"

Blowing his own trumpet?

He doesn't realize that the public's always right. The public that DID buy the game, many of them didn't like the controls in Starfox Zero. That's why the shops are flooded with second-hand copies, but he's just to blind to see. Of course there are people that only tried 5 minutes, but not all of them!

Personally I liked the game, but found the controls cumbersome (original, but cumbersome). Definitely not Miyamoto's pinacle of intuative gaming!

@Snow-Dust I love the Oracles games, don't worry

Links Awakening and Ocarina of Time are my two favourites. Links Awakening is a HUGELY unappreciated game. Has a dreamlike, engaging world with brilliant character interactions. I can't recommend it enough!

I can understand what Miyamoto said. It must be hard when you spend time designing a particular game experience and players dismiss it because it is something different from what they are accustomed. Not many people are willing to try new things and to respect the creative decisions of the creator. And that's sad.

@HappyMaskedGuy I'm yet to hear Nintendo saying sorry for something. For instance, Capcom said sorry for Street Fighter V not having a single player story until a week ago (and the game is awesome now!). Nintendo never says, "Sorry for disappointing you, we'll fix that and we'll try harder next time". What Nintendo says is, "You don't know what's fun", "You don't have siblings", "You are old", "You s*ck..."...

@Billsama People did not reject it because they are 'unwilling to try something new'. We are Nintendo fans because we enjoy new things.

Starfox Zero was rejected because it is flawed, uninspired, broken, unoriginal and the control scheme was unintuitive. I actually enjoyed the control scheme sometimes. But the game itself was not up to the standards we as Nintendo fans expect, regardless of the controls.
Deal with it.

@Snow-Dust @HappyMaskedGuy Link's Awakening is the best GB/GBC and even GBA game! I didn't like the Oracle games much though, I think they are overly complicated (Ages specially). I didn't have a clue about what I had to do most of the time. Link's Awakening is wonderful, like HappyMaskedGuy said, is special.

@HappyMaskedGuy Oh, didnt we all thought it was good idea to steal that item from the shop.

@Billsama I love different controls for different genre of games. I was excited that Zero had motion controls because it just seems like a perfect fit but oh god I was wrong, it was the most frustrating experience I had in my life. What went wrong? I was expecting it to be like Metroid Blast from Nintendo Land where it was originally supposed to be a starfox mini-game instead. This game's controls are really atrocious

@VanillaLake They never apologize for anything, Metroid Other M is just not good (It's not super horrible as everyone make it to be but it's just not Metroid quality), Mario SS was horrible, Animal Crossing Scam Festival is WTF, Mario 4v1 Party 10 is bad. Just a lot of bad decisions and they just dont own up to it. Worst part is the big negativity towards those games after it released and they still continue with that direction like Mario Party 10 amiibo mode being implemented in AC, wtf... colour splash card (sticker) mechanics... WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHY WONT YOU LISTEN NINTENDO!

@televisions It's like he's saying that we're too old to enjoy games any more. Condescending and stupid idea.

@VanillaLake I dont know about you but Oracles have a special place in my heart especially my first waifu originated from that game (God Nayru is beautiful). There was also different paths depending on who you got as your animal buddy and the best part is that these games can link (pun intended)

I got as used to the controls as I could, but that didn't mean I was having any fun. Length and control only scratch the surface of my problems with SF0. They shouldn't have modeled it do much after SF64. You can't help but compare the levels. Zoness used to be one of the most action-packed levels, now it's a nearly threat-free helicopter ride. Meteor was one of my favorites, now it's a hidden escort mission. And they have the gall to put it in the game twice. Then there's the fact that every last boss is in all-range. The final boss in the new Kirby was more satisfying than any boss in this game. Even the ending is literally SF64's ending, except with the Arwings in walker mode.

Miyamoto, I love ya. I've been playing your games since before the NES came out, if you count old ports of Donkey Kong and Mario Bros. But if you expect me to please try SF0 again, I'm gonna need you to try developing it some more. I appreciate that it's different, but it's inherently flawed. Using an outside camera during a dogfight is ridiculous. Am I supposed to believe that a fighter jet (fictional, I know) has a turret, but not a radar? That's all the second screen should have been, if you ask me. Just a means to free up the main screen of clutter, so it could be a beautiful return to the series. Instead, we get this multi-view thing that nobody asked for, which comes at the cost of graphics since the Wii U is now forced to render the game twice. (Sorry if that's blindingly inaccurate; that's as far as my technical understanding goes.)

Do you think it felt good to bring a first-party Nintendo game back to the store? I can't remember the last time I did that. Star Fox Adventures? I think this may be the Other M of the series.

Game I've had most fun with: Nintendoland. SO underrated!

@HappyMaskedGuy Relax. Can't comment on the game's quality because I haven't played, but judging by the reviews, it is a good game. Things that you listed can be things that you don't like, but other people seem to think differently. Can you deal with other peoples opinions?

@Billsama I'm confused- how can you judge other people's opinions on a game you haven't even played? Bit condescending. Relax yourself buddy

@invictus4000 I KNOW!!! I got masters (the gold medal) on all Metroid Blast stages on-foot and on air (yes... even the hard mode stages...). Also got all masters on Zelda Bow mode and Pikmin Captain (Olimar?) mode. That game is so underrated. Luigi's mansion is the best game to play with people

@Billsama I think you need to play the game first to really realize how bad the controls are. We played the game and that's why we judged it. We wouldnt have bought it if we didnt have an open mind about the controls

@Snow-Dust I can respect that. Really wish I could give a meaningful opinion about the game's quality. Maybe what I'm saying not apply to every person that didn't like the game, you seem to have an reasoned opinion on why you didn't like it, but it's something that happens often with a lot of games.

No thanks. This is just Star Fox 64 HD. Nothing special.

@Billsama Thanks, I get where you are coming from as well as most people bash products for no reason as I really believe as bad as Other M is, it definitely wasnt the worst game of the century but a lot of people think otherwise (problem is bad writing, linear gameplay, game is too easy with sense move and the pixel hunts). I actually enjoyed the controls switching the wii remote to front to go in First Person to aim missiles but it most likely wouldve been executed better with nun-chuks

@Snow-Dust Fair enough. But I'm not commenting on the game's quality. I'm just saying I can understands Miyamoto's thinking. And that it must be hard to have your game bashed for a control idea that you had. Contrary to what most gamers think, making a game is hard and every developer want to make a good game. Sometimes they succeed and sometimes not. It is not a matter of not caring about their fans as some here are suggesting. That is all I'm saying.

@invictus4000
Nintendo Land is extremely underrated.

It could use a patch for support of nunchuck/controller pro in the competitive games and it would be perfect. I think I'm over 100 hours on this game now.

@Snow-Dust

It's pretty obvious that we both are Nintendo long-time fans, let's be honest:

Welcome to Nintendo. Please, enter command.
>_
>Destroy Paper Mario: Paper Mario Sticker Star
>Destroy Metroid: Metroid Other M and Metroid Prime Federation Force*
>Destroy Animal Crossing: Animal Crossing Amiibo Festival
>Destroy Mario Party: Mario Party 10
>Destroy Mario vs. Donkey: Mini Mario & Friends: Amiibo Challenge
>Destroy Mario Tennis: Mario Tennis Ultra Smash and Mario Tennis Open
>Destroy Star Fox: Star Fox Zero
>Destroy Yoshi: Yoshi's New Island
>Destroy Mario Golf: Mario Golf World Tour

[* Federation Force: the game concept.]

"Games are becoming more of a consumable product, and it's getting harder and harder for people to let a game to sink in and enjoy leisurely."

It's funny he'd say this because if he's aware of that he would've definitely made more accessible controls for SFZ. The more I play SFZ, the less fun the controls get. I 'get' them, but they dont click and make the game more fun. Which is sad. I started of pretty positive but as the challenge ramped up the potential of the title felt held back by me getting pissed at controlling.

And I'm not a long term SF fan (SFZ is actually my first Star Fox game somehow), but I can easily see why many fans would feel upset that it was basically a reboot of 64's story and didn't offer all that much that was new.

I can also see why online multiplayer would be an obvious missed opportunity.
I think you guys shot a little high with 8/10

@Billsama I am studying to be a graphics artist/designer and I can vouch that it is a nightmare to produce 1 working model. You gotta make the geometry (model), UV wrap it, texture it, give it bones, skin weight the polygons to the bones, insert controls and then animate it. Even inserting basic lights is a nightmare, and particle effects are horrendous to make. People think it's 2+2 but it isnt. It's very demanding and one tiny mistake like changing the bone controller size can cause huge problems later when exporting the animations to an engine.

It is hard to see your hard work getting trashed but when you make a product for the public, there should be no sugar coating as this just promotes bad behavior or in this context, bad design choices. Miyamoto really need to step up and consider putting modern game design choices like online mode if he really wants to make the best game out there

@mariovslink62 If only it was Star Fox 64 HD I really think Star Fox 64 3D is much better.

@VanillaLake You just about nailed but you forgot
Destroy Paper Mario: Paper Mario Colour Splash

Give Thousand Year Doors gameplay back! Hopefully Zelda BOTW brings them back on-track

@VanillaLake Completely agree- Starfox 64 is a masterpiece.
Starfox Zero is like a cheap immitation.

@televisions As much as I like the Nintendo Life community, don't trust Nintendo Life's reviews (don't trust mono-brand websites, in general). I used to trust them and I bought many games I didn't like. I think the best thing is to read many reviews ( http://www.metacritic.com/game/wii-u/star-fox-zero/critic-reviews ), although gamers' impressions are even better. It would be great if at least Nintendo released a demo so people can try and not just BUY IT blindly as Nintendo is expecting.

No Mr. Miyamoto, stop trying to sell me this......thing.

@VanillaLake I think it is safe to trust reviews but you should always know that a review is in the end of the day, just an opinion and everyone's opinions differ.

They rated Yoshi Wooly World as a masterpiece but other than the graphics, I just hate that game to it's core. Everything is too easy and too slow but I know the problem lies into me as I love fast paced platformers with a huge challenge

@Snow-Dust Yeah, Colour Splash doesn't look good but I want to see if it's finally like Sticker Star or not... What do you think about it this far?

The Thousand-year Door is the best Paper Mario game, indeed. I remember when I played it the first time I thought "This is one of the best GameCube games" and I had tons of GameCube games.

About Yoshi's Woolly World, I loved it but I think Tropical Freeze is better. They both are better than the "New" Mario games, if you ask me.

2016 is sorta shaping up to be Nintendo's worst year of 1st party releases isn't it?

I like the game, but it shows that miyamoto doesn't fully understand how gamers are these days.

The motion controls are OK, but they should have been optional because the original controls where just fine, and didn't need fixing. The length of the game is pathetic, it's about add long as a Snes game, which was fine over 25 years ago, but definitely not a days.

I think Miyamoto should have a lot less control in what happens with all the games at Nintendo, and Nintendo should make more of an effort to innovate in making there games more modern and more innovative in gameplay, and less innovative in weird controls , like what Breath of the Wild is doing.

Starfox Zero is a good game but once the controls click the games greatness truly shines just like the Wonderful 101 but i also understand its not for everyone and regardless of negative feedback its gotten its all subjective....but i for one appreciate Starfox Zero.

@JaxonH yeah Pikmin 3 truly is a gem! With the wiimote nunchuk and game pad combo I had mastered multi-tasking and would end up getting so much done in 1 day and I beat the game getting all fruit and only losing 198 pikmin...i can't imagine not having that control scheme in the next Pikmin...Nintendo controls have me always spoiled and i guess that's what makes me excited about the NX

@VanillaLake Well to be honest, I dont think the game is looking horrible at the moment like Metroid Prime FF but my problem isnt the gameplay. Im sure if it's a different franchise, they would be very fun but what they are doing is taking a franchise and changing it's core to something unrecognizable and that is what I have a gripe with.

Metroid is (let's be honest) Nintendo's most darkest and serious famous (There are still masterpieces like Fatal Frame and Pandora's Tower) franchise but with the art approach of FF. It's destroying Metroid's identity as Nintendo's only (famous) dark series.

Enough of my rambling with Metroid though, I think Colour splash could be pleasant if they can refine the battle system and actually have a a story and actually let you play as other characters other than mario...

Oh yea, Donkey Kong CTF was good. I loved the bonus hard stages each in level and the final bonus stages. I think New Super Mario is more fun than Yoshi because Mario's gameplay was smooth and fast. 3D world was super fun especially on the very last bonus level (ended it with all characters)

@MADGAZ #91
"The same can be said for the first hands on with the new Zelda. Yes you have given us an open world to explore but nothing is grabbing us and saying come this way or what happens if I .. dammit the floor just gave way! It needs a much better sense of pace and a general direction. Hands on time left me feeling meh. I love Zelda as I love most ninty games, but what I played was pretty much a sandbox with no real concept. Let's hope that the guys at Nintendo are holding a lot back, because as it stands it is simply a pot of ideas that do not seem to gel together."
I think most of this can be attributed to the fact that what you played was a very closed off demo, taking place in the small beginner chunk of the game. You're experience was heavily restricted overall.

@Snow-Dust I mean the "New Super Mario Bros." games, being quite uninspired in general and New Super Mario Bros. 2 in particular being actually rubbish. About the 3D Mario games, I much prefer something like Super Mario Sunshine with open worlds and exploration instead of tiny planets (Super Mario Galaxy) or linear action (Super Mario 3D World).

Mario and Zelda were my favourite franchises since I can remember until recently. I still love them but some of the recent games have disappointed me much (Skyward Sword, Super Mario 3D World).

Pikmin 3 is so amazing. It's probably not my favorite game on the system, but it's easily one of the best. It surprised me how great it was, and I loved every moment of it.

@-Red- I did not play the game but, to be totally honest, all the long hours of gameplay show were like what @MADGAZ is describing. When I tuned back after doing something else they were doing exactly the same things in places that looked exactly the same.

@VanillaLake Because they weren't allowed to leave the Great Plateau area. They literally spent 6 hours in the same small tutorial area of the game (which apparently accounts for 1-2% of the game's world). So they kept redoing the same things in the same areas over and over again

I agree with Miyamoto and have tested it on many children as well.

They are amazed by it and instinctively play it very well.

And not surprisingly, when some of them wanted to see old Star Foxes, they were VERY frustrated with the rigidness of the last gen controls.

@-Red- Probably.

@VanillaLake I liked the "New" Super Mario series though, fast pace action is what I desire~ Never played 2 though since I heard about all the bad reviews but I liked the Wii and U and also Luigi U but really wished they ramp up the difficulty. I like linear games tbh but only when the controls are responsive and the pace is fast. I love just flying through the level while doing some hardcore platforming.

3D World was pretty bad at first but that ending bonus level changed my opinion, best fair intense stage I've had in years. Skyward Sword is pretty bad but narrative wise, i think it's the best. I love how Zelda is actually being a badass in this game and trying to change destiny herself as to just waiting for Link to save the day.

I think through our convo and my DP, you probably figured Metroid is my favorite franchise but I think we both have to agree that Nintendo is losing it's edge and what the consumers want. I really hope Nintendo can turn this around with BOTW as this game looks so super and it looks like they really care again (OR maybe the old games are just too good?)

@Varoennauraa Maybe kids do like it but Nintendo and Miyamoto needs to realize that most of the Nintendo's user base arent kids and casual gamers, it has always been us Nintendo lovers who has supported them during every cycle including the gamecube (it was a beast mind you, just a bad decision with the tiny discs). They really need to stop focusing so much on children and really focus on who are the ones who have been supporting them for these many long decades... us.

It's alright to make games for kids but dont turn everything you have for kids. The Wii U especially is a failed product in the industry standard even though they made profit and I honestly think that the Wii U that got into people's houses are mostly the ones who have been supporting Nintendo and then they decide to shaft us with titles like Wii Party U, Mario Party 10, Game and Wario (good game though), AC amiibo festival and many more.

@Snow-Dust Yeah, I read your profile and I see that you are a huge Metroid fan and you are telling me that you love linear action so that makes me ask you this question, do you prefer Metroid Prime or Super Metroid-style? My first Metroid game was Metroid Prime, then 2 and then 3. I loved the three games (and I got the trilogy for Wii U). I also got Super Metroid on Wii U when it was €0.20 but I haven't played it. I played Metroid Fusion on 3DS (Ambassador promo) but I prefer the Metroid Prime games.

My favourite Mario games are Super Mario World and Super Mario Sunshine.

Back to Star Fox Zero, this video (someone put the link before) is really interesting because it answers with strong arguments the big question, why Star Fox Zero sucks. The guy really explains it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJg1M3cfqrU

Sounds a bit sad, really. These last few years have been pretty rough for Nintendo and Miyamoto game-wise (Sticker Star, Color Splash, amiibo Festival, Mario Party 10, Ultra Smash, Star Fox Zero, etc).

I'm really not sure what Pikmin 3 brings to the conversation here. It's not underrated by any means. I can't think of many underrated Wii U games...Lego City Undercover is only underrated in the respect that not many people bought it. Nearly everyone that did (including me) loved it.

@VanillaLake I love Super Metroid and then Fusion and finally the Prime games. The Prime games are fun but the first one was hard for me to play since it gave me headaches after like 2-3hrs session so I need to keep a watch on the time but sometime I can get so addicted that I forget or I just turn off the alarm that I set and that would make me regret later... If you care, this is my metroid collection
http://m.imgur.com/3n4dGRZ?tappedOIA
Im still updating it so yea
But why do I like Metroid, it is because of the fact that I love linear fast-paced platformers so much that when I first picked up Metroid, it blew my mind away on how a platformer can play. It was very different but yet, very interesting. Sadly this is really the only Metroidvania I like as others are lackluster and I dont know where to start with Castlevania (Im gonna start on bloodstained )

Super Mario World is fun and and Sunshine is really under-appreciated. The Fludd really introduces a lot of techniques to make this game really technical. Too bad noobs dismissed it because of the FLUDD.

Gotta watch that at home. At work currently and it would eat too much data with that 46min video haha

@Snow-Dust I am not a kid and I too enjoyed the new Star Fox tremendosly.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE I think that's the most likes you've ever gotten on your comments.

@Varoennauraa Im sure you are not as you did mention you have a son and I dont think they were aiming for kids specifically when they made SF0 but they really need to consider who their audience are in general especially with the peculiar titles they released (the party games etc)

I can deal with a short length, because...that's Star Fox for ya. I'm more disappointed by the unnecessary motion controls and that there doesn't seem to be as much replay incentive as I thought there'd be. It feels more like Star Fox: Assault, which I loved, but I'll freely admit it left me wanting more in the end.

You know what you should give another try, Miyomoto?
F-Zero.

@PlywoodStick Why you little.....

@Seacliff They did! in Nintendo Land and Mario Kart 8...

Eventually...not anytime soon, though.

Give it up, Shiggy. The jig is up.

Next up, he'll be recommending Pokemon Rumble U, Cake Ninja, Game Party Champions and Mighty No. 9.

Seriously? An elementary school kid "could play Star Fox Zero without any preconceived notions"? When I was one, the original Star Fox was still the new thing, and it was far, far easier to control. In general, it's better to give kids easier control schemes, and allow them to work their way up to more complex controls over the years, so they don't become alienated from gaming by more complex controls.

Many of us Nintendo fans had the benefit of growing up as those control schemes evolved. Many of us can handle learning the controls of SFZ. But to throw young kids head first into SFZ without the original SF or even SF64 (3D) for background is like throwing them to the (Star) wolves without the experience necessary for survival.

SFZ simply does not control intuitively for inexperienced gamers. The original Star Fox, or even Star Fox 64 3D, are both better choices to introduce to elementary school kids. Kind of disappointing to see that Miyamoto is reaching to protect his status, instead of recommending SF 64 3D as a first game for first timers, then moving on to try SFZ.

I'm not going to pretend I'm a massive Star Fox fan, but one of the reasons I didn't buy it is that I just don't want to support Nintendo these days. And again, I presume Star Fox isn't censored, but after what they did to Xenoblade Chronicles X, Project Zero, Fire Emblem Fates and Tokyo Mirage Sessions, I just don't like them as a company.

I'm pretty indifferent to Star Fox, but it's something I would pick up if I was in a better mood with the company in general.

@Souldin @DBPirate I just checked it and Pikmin 3 was not a commercial failure. It's a million-seller with 1.09 millions and it got good reviews. As you said, I don't know what Pikmin 3 has to do with Star Fox Zero, Nintendo would do better if they compared it to other Star Fox games instead of a game from another franchise and different genre.

Nintendo can be so ungrateful though. They were disappointed by Super Mario Galaxy sales (11.52 millions) and compared them continuously to New Super Mario Bros. Wii sales (28.60 millions) and reached the conclusion that they had to focus on 2D Mario games because people liked them more, looking down on those 11 million people that purchased the 3D Mario game. I wonder what Nintendo would be doing now if Wii U was as successful as Wii and I wonder why Nintendo hasn't learnt to really appreciate the totality of their userbase now that they have lost so many customers (New Super Mario Bros U sales are 5.15 millions, less than half as much as Super Mario Galaxy).

Agree with Bill that Bingo Battle is loads of fun in Pikmin 3. Really, everything about Pikmin 3 is great, yet for some reason I haven't really ever gone back to it. Might be because it's an extremely short game that lacks online functionality for it's brilliant multiplayer... Shame...

And LOL at Miyamoto. I'd bet an elementary school kid that doesn't have any expectations would like Star Fox Zero too. The same thing can be said for anything. But, people can, and should, have expectations of products they're paying for.

Sorry, Mr. Miyamoto, but no. I played this game for about 10 minutes and the control was so terrible I had to turn it off and get rid of it. I wouldn't mind using the game pad to aim and shoot if I was sitting still like in the 3DS Zelda remakes, but using that to turn in conjunction with stick control was just plain awful. I'm sorry, but if I have to "get used to" a control scheme to think that it's good, it's not good. It's counter-intuitive, it's not fun, and it just chalked up as another forced gimmick that ruined another potentially good game.

Get lost!

Make a much better game first and then we can talk, Miyamoto San.

Simple.

Note: I'm talking about Star Fox Zero here.

I thought Star Fox Zero was okay, but it's nowhere near my favorite game. I couldn't get too into it with the controls, just like with Kid Icarus: Uprising to me. From what I did play though, controls aside, it was pretty awesome!

And the Pikmin Bingo Battles are really fun! Best part: You can be Louie!

Hm... how about change the genre ?
Star Fox in Life Simulation genre, like ACNL.
Star Fox no Mori or Star Fox Crossing.
Play as Star Fox and crews, meets with villagers, build futuristic cities, keep the town safe from intruders. But the enemies must be so cute like Pokemon style.

I'd buy it if it had a chest slider.

@Snow-Dust @Seacliff LOL Yeah Nintendo said that they didn't make a new Wave Race game (one of my favourite Nintendo franchises) because there is a jet-ski mini game in Wii Sports Resorts, so probably there's no F-Zero game because there are two F-Zero circuits in Mario Kart 8 and one in Nintendo Land.

Bah, sorry Shiggs, but if any Wii U game deserves the title of underrated, it's Wonderful 101

@FullbringIchigo there were a lot more problems with Starfox Zero than length

@SLIGEACH_EIRE KAGHFAA CANF BREAF PFFH AAA

@PlywoodStick Miyamoto also says that we don't enjoy Star Fox Zero because we are old... But the truth is this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJg1M3cfqrU

@Snow-Dust We can't say they've given up for sure until they add Captain Falcon as a playable character!

@Megas75 Amen. Wonderful 101 is underrated.

@Anti-Matter I hope it will be like the Sims games so I can drown Slippy...

@Seacliff Miyamoto "Dont worry! you can assimilate playing as Captain Falcon in the Blue Falcon when you play Smash bros and use his final smash! now please play Starfox Zero pretty please?"

@Megas75 That game is a master piece. I prefer W101 over Bayonetta (it was solid too) due to how rewarding it can really be if you master the controls compared to Bayo

@VanillaLake That's why they stopped making traditional 3D Marios? It ONLY sold 11 million? I hate this dumb "sales" logic.

Oh, Paper Mario sold more on the 3DS than GameCube? People must hate the RPG mechanics. Oh, a multiplayer 2D Mario game sold more than a 3D Mario game? People must ONLY want 2D games!

I'm pretty sure Smash U has sold less than 11 million...guess that means people hate Smash! End the franchise!

@cleveland124 aw, jealous!! I'd absolutely love to see it. I did see the man himself live a number of times though so I'm very fortunate. Thanks for sharing, I'm glad you liked it.

@VanillaLake I'll have to watch it later when I have time, but just listening to the first 5 minutes, it seems in-depth, as the title says. It doesn't have many views for some reason, though, despite the depth. I agree with their assessment that Treasure beat Nintendo at their own game with Sin & Punishment 2.

@VanillaLake Classic Nintendo and Miyamoto "why what's the point of expanding this franchise when the genre is the same with this other genre, but here you go! have some more Wii Party U, Mario Party U and Animal Crossing Amiibo Festival because you guys just love board games dontcha?"

If you have to beg customers to give your game a chance because it's not fun to play, then you've failed as a game designer.

Granted, I still intend to try the game one day... when it's much cheaper.

@DBPirate Yeah, Nintendo said last generation that they would focus on 2D Mario games and that they were disappointed by Super Mario Galaxy sales. Funnily, New Super Mario Bros U sales are 5.15 millions, less than half as much as Super Mario Galaxy. I'm not saying that a 3D Mario game would have sold more, but they should care more about diversity specially when they lack any kind of third party support (except for Just Dance and the casual thing). The big picture is what really matters, and that's the reason why Wii U has failed.

How does this old man still have a job? Or better yet still talking like he's somebody great in the industry?

@PlywoodStick Next Level also made a better Luigi's Mansion game. I normally hate long videos because they feel a waste of time (I'd rather watch a film), but this one is really interesting.

I played and own both starfox and pikmin3. Both are amazing games and are definitely underappreciated.
Please pardon any typos in this comment. Lol

@whodatninja there's no way its gunna become a nintendo select since those are games that have sold a ton of copies already and are wanted games.

@VanillaLake I hate Next level. They are destroying Metroid

@Snow-Dust Or maybe because they are cheap to make and they sell them at a premium price! They have been lazy for a long time. What have they been doing all these years? Not Wii U or 3DS big games, that's for sure, and not a NX launch Mario game because Miyamoto said we'll see something interesting about Mario in 2-3 years. What the...

I loved Star Fox Zero. Won't pretend it's perfect but it got unfairly bashed by the press.

@Manjushri I walked in with the open mind ever and the game blew me away with it's awful controls. Miyamoto really have a special way of thinking, "I hate RPG and so everyone must hate it too O.o"

@VanillaLake So true, this is why I'm really hoping Zelda BOTW will make them realize that hard work pays off because other than Zelda, Xenoblade X is their most hardware limit pushing software they have and thank god Miyamoto didnt go near that game or else he will botch the story

@Snow-Dust I can understand that you hate the studio responsible for Metroid "Prime" Federation Force, but I believe this was Nintendo's great idea, like the Amiibo Festival idea.

@VanillaLake Oh it was definitely one of Nintendo's golden ideas but it is Next Level's fault for accepting it. I had high hopes for them when they made Punch Out and Luigi's Mansion sigh

@Snow-Dust I know. I don't know what's worse, turning Paper Mario into Colour Splash or turning Metroid into Federation Force...

@Manjushri Means opinions my friend
I will try to see the bright side to the game (someday in the far off future) but right now it is just too frustrating to play.

Well Miyamoto has expressed many times that he hates RPG and Earthbound was the only RPG he ever got into. Evolved into something equivalent to a demon spawn. Changing it to another Platformer with RPG element and then into a story-less RPG isnt exactly what you want...

Series should evolve but in a slow and gradual step, not one giant leap as these often causes more miss than hits. Look at Zelda II and Starfox Adventure. Games needs to evolve slowly so it doesnt overwhelm the player in one go

@VanillaLake Or turning Animal Crossing into a Scam Festival

I love Miyamoto, and am indebted to him for some of the most important experiences of my childhood- but he needs to accept that Starfox Zero didn't pan out the way he wanted it to. The consumers have spoken.

Well, some DLC would be nice, wink wink.

Starfox Zero is one of my favorite games. Don't know why people don't like it. It plays really well to me

@BetaWolf What about the people who never played a Starfox game and has a really open mind to any and all control scheme be it touch, motion, fight pad, keyboard + mouse, controller etc but still hate the game due to how bad the game's controls are (me)

When Miyamoto speaks we listen because the man is a genius. He's also usually right. Star Fox is so underrated. It has its dud levels, sure, but it's genuinely innovative and so much fun.

@Snow-Dust "It's like the developers did not even play their own game when developing it".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJg1M3cfqrU

EDIT: The end of the video is great. I'm not the only one who thinks Skyward Sword is the worst Zelda game.

Star Fox Zero is great. The best Star Fox in the series for me.

I really don't get all the whining. I think players nowadays just want to play the same things over and over again.

Nintendo should not think that people don't like the series because they don't like Star Fox Zero but it's because they like the series that they don't like Star Fox Zero.

I think that there are a few things to clarify-
Most people are confusing the games controls with the actual quality of the game itself. I enjoyed the controls, but they often left me confused, frustrated and often hindered my play experience. This is not fun. I got golds on all medals btw- completed it fully.

The game itself was POOR. Never mind the controls.
Sub par, last gen graphics, a poorly rehashed script, boring level design, scene for scene copy pasting of SF64- it was a poor remake of a classic game. I would argue that SF64 looks and plays far more coherently than Zero. Who honestly enjoyed those Gyro levels? What about the ATV? Are you seriously saying that is not a terrible piece of programming?

Starfox Zero was fun. But it was more frequently frustrating and disappointing. This is not what we want from Nintendo.

I worry that Miyamoto has become so far removed from the rest of the industry that he can't see how far everyone else has come- Miyamoto is a legend, but his legacy has meant that new talent is emerging.

Let's not kid ourselves- Miyamoto isn't the only games designer who understands 'fun'. And SF Zero has shown he is less in touch with that too.

omg you know what makes star fox zero way more fun ? ONLINE MULTPLAYER YOU CANT PLAY WITH UR FREAKING SIBLINGS ALL THE TIME MIYAMOTO

@PsyCraft_ @PsyCraft_ I disagree. People aren't 'whining'. They are voicing their opinion about a premium product which they pay for. Nothing sinister going on.

@VanillaLake Oh, I'm sure they played the hell out of it. They just seem to have completely forgotten how to create motion controls that can ease people into the play style, just one console generation after mastering the concept of "easy to learn, difficult to master" with the Wii.

@HappyMaskedGuy More: mediocre soundtrack with mediocre remixes, boring dialogues, lifeless environments, poor replay value, no real multiplayer mode, no online mode, tiresome boss battles, really poor story and connection between characters, cumbersome tracking system, horrible sound design with lack of options, horrible visual design... And I haven't mentioned the controls.

@HappyMaskedGuy Your opinion is bad and you should feel bad.

...
lol

@VanillaLake bingo.

@PtM
I'm not comparing the games themselves, mind you. I'm comparing the reactions to both. One game gets harsh reviews, another gets "here's how you're supposed to enjoy it" articles.
That's all I said.

@kkslider5552000 I'm a bad, bad Larry...

Please stop with the swearing, people.

@Megumi_Sagano
WONT SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

*because Miyamoto thinks we are all attention deficit pre-schoolers.

** I actually do suffer from ADD by the way. But don't tell Miyamoto.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE

Hmm, perhaps it is time to realize - Nintendo is not now, nor were they ever - the company you seem to think they are or demand they be.

When I read your posts, I don't automatically dismiss you as a fanboy, hater, or troll, (though one easily could) but a misguided crusader who is fighting for an ancient cause he has read about, only never to realize that it was a fictional story all along.

I feel like Im the only one who loved Star Fox Zero. Lol. However, it is kinda inaccessible. I really have to be in "the zone" to get into it. I've had Pikmin 3 ever since I got it for free by buying Mario Kart 8 at launch. I kinda haven't played it much. I guess I just need to set aside time to really try to get into it. I never got into Pikmin, period. I was a dirt poor high schooler that saved his weekend work money for art supplies during the Gamecube era.

This is just getting ridiculous anymore.

I recall being taken to the wood shed last week about my "Miyamoto should step aside" remarks.

As many others have said: if this is how you feel, where is a demo? Nintendo's core is so andiquated it's beyond frustrating.

I should add that while couch co-op might be fun, my boyfriend gets terribly motion sick so I cant even play MK8 with him.

between that, the shooting for younger players (regaining them) as a focus and seeking out the casual market that the wii had (all before tablets and smart phones), I worry about their direction.

I also wonder how they took so damn long on a game and had it come out like this.

Thankfully I'm not banking on Zelda. My favorite IP is Kirby and they've never really screwed that up. Knock wood.

@Action51 "A misguided crusader who is fighting for an ancient cause he has read about, only never to realize that it was a fictional story all along"

Ooph. Never has such eloquence been lavished on such banality. Probably. That's such an accurate portrayal that it's oddly moving.

He's not a troll, bless him; trolls generally have some sense of self-awareness. Just an angry, lost soul, yelling at whoever will listen (and plenty of people who won't).

A misguided crusader indeed. : (

@VanillaLake The last time I was taking critical reviews completely seriously was back in the print days, and the early GameSpot days with Greg Kasavin. They're moreso just entertaining reads for me now. I've only been heeding detailed user reviews for years now.

Wow. I guess Nintendo should put him out of spotlight, because he is not doing them any favors prwise.

Anyway, I wonder what he means with "and it's getting harder and harder for people to let a game to sink in and enjoy leisurely". I mean, since The Last of Us, you can see a trend of games going for hollywood movie vibe. Slow, having to slow down walking so the plot can be presented/explained and not concentrating on gameplay and be more about the story and graphics and not gameplay. There are nowadays only a couple of games that do storytelling through gameplay, most of the time it's spoonfeding the plot and getting out of gameplay to snailpace walk and listen to crap. They even murdered God of War to fit into this crappy format.

Star Fox Zero doesn't even have that much replay value, because alt routes get you to the same place and outcome anyway, unlike previous ones. It's 2-3 hrs game with barely any replay value for 40-60 bucks. It's more like 10-15bucks downloadable title. You're better of with Sine Moira or some other game.

/sperge over

It is sad how true that the collective thoughts that is the internet can ruin something from being bought or watched, or whatever..

@PlywoodStick Have you ever seen any of the Zero Punctuation reviews?

@BulkSlash there is no off screen mode in star fox. It utilizes both screens the whole time. Kind of like Splatoon.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE 100% AGREEE! Toki Tori 2 is my favorite WiiU game, and I have 30+ games, all the major releases. Nothing comes close to the brilliance of the game this generation, and the sheer enjoyment of solving it 100% with no hand holding whatsoever.

@PlywoodStick That makes sense. Literally, anyone can be a website reviewer (or even rule a website like PS) these days, it's not like the printed magazines' reviews of yesterday.

@-Red- Yes. I would consider Yahtzee and Escapist as being more a form of "entertainment review" than a serious read/listen.

@PlywoodStick It is mostly for entertainment, but I also feel that Yahtzee's satire and humor offer some good insight about the games themselves. He's also one of the more unbiased reviewers I see as of late.

@Action51 Looks at Gamecube library compared to it's contemporaries

Looks at Wii U library compared to it's contemporaries

Oh, I beg to differ...

@-Red- That's true, I don't intend to deride his style, because it works far better than traditional methods in the scope of YouTube and the current trend of quick consumption of information. I just grew up in the print days, so that's merely my personal preference.

So this thread inspired me to put the game back in.
Havent gotten past Sector Y (With the missiles and drones attaching themselves to the great fox) and it was here, I remembered, that the game made me feel completely disempowered with its controls.
I cant turn fast enough with any kind of accuracy to get to anything in time and it feels like my legs are been kicked out from under me constantly.
And I, for what it's worth, remember starting off the game really high on it. I thought it was polished looking and too ambitious for its own good.
Now that I'm here I'm reminded why I stopped playing.

Back to Xenoblade or Tokyo Mirage for me, I guess.

I think The Wonderful 101 was the most underrated game on the WiiU, and Pikmin 3 was (unintentionally) a big part of the cause. A lot of people assumed it was Pikmin with superheroes but it was nothing of the sort. Plus it dropped same day as GTA V, which was incredibly dumb.

Oh well. Star Fox Zero? Nope. I put in 3-4 hours and the controls were still and awkward clumsy mess at the end. The game still looks awful with a bland and uninspired art style. It's still too heavily looking backwards and attempting to play on nostalgia. I'm glad some liked it but it was a minority and Miyamoto needs to accept he got it wrong this time.

Star Fox Guard however was super fun. I just wish it didn't have the ugly and bland Star Fox coat of paint on it and had been a new IP.

I think Star Fox Zero is a brilliant game. Luckily enough that poor reception doesn't prevent the game being as good as it is. The way the expanded the gameplay, the effective use of the new control scheme to fully realise All Range Mode, an actual expanded scope in terms of gameplay and control.

I'm glad the game wasn't compromised by "optional controls" because for all intents and purpose the gyro acts as a third analog stick. The left analog moving the ship, the right analog managing manoeuvres, boosting and breaking and the gyro aiming in a way that you can use all three while shooting. The game itself frequently has challenges that use all of them together and it's demanding with no autoaim(unlike a certain "standard" control scheme in almost every shooter).

It's a simple control scheme but the complexity comes out from a combination of inputs and allowed for an evolution of the Star Fox formula in gameplay. I don't think it gets the credit it deserves since you're often doing stuff and taking on foes in a way that would be impossible in any other Star Fox game/control scheme, yet people act like it's just doing the same thing the older games did just with motion controls. However I think the control system proves it's worth as early as stage 1 where you're fighting Striders in Corneria, aiming at small targets directly on top of ground based enemies in All Range Mode...the only enemy who's whole body isn't a target in All Range mode of Star Fox 64 is the final boss and he has a bigger target then Striders have in the first level of Star Fox Zero and doesn't involve you shooting at an angle to hit.

It's harder but yeah it's adding more to the game and isn't simply automating them like AAA games "Press X to awesome". But I don't think a game should be panned for actually expecting more from the player than in the past. Is it really a faux pas for Miyamoto because he had the nerve to expect someone to learn a new control scheme and designed the game with actually mastering it in mind?

@Ogbert what also killed TW101 was no marketing. The only marketing they did was 50% off if you buy Pikmin 3 and that was it.

It took Nintendo couple of years to realize that you must advertise something to have sales.

@Maxz pretty much nailed it.

I think this particular comment section deserves some kind of award.

I had no problems with the controls and the single player campaign it was quality very fun and enjoyable but the lack of online multiplayer modes was a big mistake for me.

Pikmin 3 was amazing and the bingo mode is great fun.

I haven't even played it yet, and idk if I will.

I really liked Pikmin 3, but I haven't found anyone to play Bingo mode with. Maybe I should give it a shot.

And as for Star Fox Zero. I wanna try it, but I'm waiting on a bit of a price drop. Not sure if it's a game I would really enjoy.

Senior product marketing manager of Nintendo of America Bill Trinen - a man who is rarely far away from Miyamoto at such events - said that Pikmin 3 was his pick as the console's most underrated release

I totally agree Pikmin 3 is an excellent game, but didn't it really sell that poorly? Same as the Wonderful 101 excellent game but for some odd reason didn't sell that well, which is a real shame people missing out on two excellent game's.

Still have my copy of SFZ. I'm praying for a patch that brings back N64 style controls. I've played about a hour of the game and aside from the crap controls, I like it. But, the controls take me right out of it. To the point where I won't return anytime soon. Standard controls should've been unlockable after you died a couple times and offered as a substitute if you didn't like the "new" way to play. Which, nobody liked. Miyamoto-san, stop being so hard nosed about new game controls. When trying to appeal to the masses... try doing exactly that. You alienated your fan base with that move. Not smart.

@Gen0neD You can actually play SFZ with "standard" Star Fox 64 controls right now if you wanted. Just set the gyro aiming to only while shooting on the menu and just hold the gamepad still while shooting.

I think you'll quickly find out why it isn't a option in itself to completley disable the gyro though. Something people don't seem understand is Star Fox Zero's new control scheme adds functions ontop of the existing Star Fox 64 control scheme. It doesn't replace any existing functions with motion control and it isn't a "new" way to play, outside of the d-pad it uses pretty much uses every input on the standard control scheme + Motion control.

You'd have a hard time trying to re-map SFZ's controls to remove the Gyro because the current design allows almost every single command in the game barring transformations to be done with the L-Stick, R-Stick, Gyro and shoulder buttons and triggers and more importantly how many of these commands can be done simulataneously. Everyone who tries to come up with a hypothetical "standard control scheme" makes half-baked solution where the aiming is on the right stick but the boost and break are on the face buttons which prevents you from breaking or boosting while aiming which Star Fox Zero's default controls allow, which means a "standard control scheme" would be inferior to what the game currently has(not to mention the game doesn't have aim assist so right stick aiming would also be worse than Gyro aiming).

Star Fox 64's control scheme worked with Star Fox 64, but Star Fox 64 had very simple All-Range mode sections compared to Star Fox Zero which expands on the gameplay during these segments significantly, it doesn't have motion controls and a 2nd screen for no reason, it has sections where you need sharp shooting or the scale of the bosses increase so much that at times you're aiming at a point on a boss which isn't even on the TV screen(hence the Gamepad view).

Pikmin 3 is probably the most underappreciated Wii U game imo, and Pikmin as a whole is Nintendo's most underappreciated franchise, particularly now that Fire Emblem has finally caught on.

@BetaWolf
Nice to see someone noticed my point. Unless they aren't overhyped and worthy of other articles (example: Super Mario 3D World was just the masterpiece we expected, some previews, one review, a few articles later and nothing more), not even Nintendo games get more than the few articles they need. But when a Nintendo game fails, the various "here's how to make the most of this game" articles start popping up all over the place. They're "bad until you consider all the love and hard work we put into it", which would be fair if all bad games got the same treatment - instead, Mighty No. 9 and other games in its situation (that is, disappointments - regardless of objective quality, they're especially bad when compared to the expectations they built up) just get their snarky reviews and that's it, they're bad forever.
Let me be clear on one thing - I don't want apologetic articles for other games, there shouldn't be apologetic articles period. For the sake of equality.

WHAT, Pikmin 3 has a multiplayer mode? Where? Since when? Why does the game hide those modes so well in its menu? Never seen them.

BTW, judging from the ridiculous amount of comments here, I assume there are still plenty of gamers playing Starfox Zero...

@shani yep just finished star fox co op with my brother. Pikmin 3 multiplayer is actually really fun, my friend comes over just to play that (either bingo battle or the mission stages)

So is Nintendo now blaming its customers/fans? That's odd. Drop the price of SFZ. Short games are not worth $60 USD.

"an elementary school kid who plays it without any preconceived notions"

This is quite the revealing comment, as far as the target audience apparently goes. Also, it's a worrying one, because I am not sure, there is such a thing as "an elementary school kid [...] without any preconceived notions".
I mean, the game was all over the place for a couple of days there, so you basically have to be cut off from that space entirely, as well, as have no previous knowledge of Starfox at all, to be able to go in without preconceived notions.
Seems like a very, very, very small target audience then Oo

Even though I love Pikmin 3, the "Ideal" control scheme involves using the wiimote+nunchuk with the gamepad in your lap....which is just about the most inconvenient way to play a game I can think of. Another example of a Nintendo game being great DESPITE the horrible gimmick.

Ah I understand now - it's OUR fault Starfox Zero is underwhelming.

Riiiight.

@CJ_Vick Here's my counter-argument

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Xagzb0g8NY

The man needs to retire. Im sick of watching him ruin my favorite company. Iwata was doing the same but that situation fixed it self. We need fils-aime and miyamoto out now.

@BetaWolf
Yes, hype is a double-edged sword and I oughta learn this once and for all.
And yes, I go by the AlexSora89 moniker on other site as well but as far as gaming is concerned NintendoLife is my only home.

Pikm in was grea, there was no need for him to defend that game. Star fox on the other hand was terrible

@bmjy1000 that dude got to hang out with M and the guys. He can say he's unbiased but I'm not totally sure I buy it.
And I liked his enthusiasm. But even when you watch him playing the game looking at the game pad then the TV you should know it's just not right.
Switching views can be okay, but I think choosing a fast paced action title is the wrong genre to do that with.

@electrolite77 yeah a lot of that seems pretty condescending and just, well, not bright.

Completed it.

@SLIGEACH_EIRE I think most people dismiss Toki Tori 2 because it's a little on the boring side and requires a lot of backtracking.

@Octane It sounds like you just aren't good at learning new controls and probably aren't a very coordinated person. I guess I can see how that would be frustrating.

I think DLC would help, two more universes to traverse would be solid. You don't need multiplayer.. But StarFox is a really entertaining game, I had a lot of fun playing it, also loved the challenge, I just wanted more of it. Having the multiple paths is great but I just wanted some more Land master levels... more open dogfights with other characters... DLC please

Pikmin was awesome.. I just never had any friends to play with, because all my friends are COD noobs that think if it's colorful it isn't good.

I want some DLC for Nintendo land too!! MORE DONKEY KONG CRASH COURSE LEVELS!!!

@Pigeon Pfffft get out of here with that bull. Find one other game designer who's had even half the impact on gaming that Miyamoto has. He's not perfect, but he's contributed more than enough to warrant him keeping his job. He could make a thousand more Star Fox Zero's and it would still be worth it for the absolute masterpieces that he's given to gaming over the decades, or been responsible for to one degree or another. Honestly, just an idiotic thing to say.

@Snow-Dust Wow those are some pretty impressive achievements! Yeah me and my little bro played the crap out of Metroid battle. And once a year I host a huge Nintendo party at my house and Luigi's Mansion is always what we end up playing most. SOOO fun.

I've gotta say...with that headline and that image, I can't help but imagine Miyamoto saying it in a threatening way.

Deus Ex!

Oh, I also enjoyed Devil's Third as well, but probably because there aren't too many of this type of game for Wii U.

Pikmin 3's Bingo Battle was a blast to play, it's just a shame there's no online play. All of my friends stopped playing that mode with me since I kept winning lol.

As for games of today, it's difficult for myself to replay games since my collection of games have grown from deals and offers than 10 years ago where it was just me and a small (but replayable) collection of Gamecube and GBA games. Having a large variety of unfinished games makes it pretty hard to replay some games especially if I wasn't really enjoying the game in the first place.

ewww, no. I was really excited for Star Fox (partly because there's very little going on with the Wii U this year) but after watching a few lets plays I'm writing this game off completely.

This game does. not. look. fun. to play for me. Imo, controls should be so fluid and intuitive, that you forget you're holding a controller. Kind of hard to do when the game keeps forcing you to go between the two. Lame. (T-T )

@VanillaLake Oof, that was one long vid. I cant really relate to most of the point since this is my first starfox entry but I see what he means in general about that Zero amounts to nothing and how Miyamoto lied about the story (lol)

I cant say Zelda SS is the worst Zelda because there are many things to consider
1. Zelda II is the worst if we are not including the CDi games
2. SS has by far one of the best stories
3. Lanayru's mine was an awesome dungeon
4. I like Fi (time to hold up the Flame Shield) in fact, I think Midna is annoying as hell

@Snow-Dust They're both annoying but at least Midna doesn't break your immersion.

Maaaaster!! Your batteries are almost dead! Maaaaster! You've been playing too long! Maaaaster! I'm going to repeat that thing that person just said, in case you weren't paying attention and just smashing A!!!

@Utena-mobile
Midna: uh-huhuhuhu, hey stupid, heehehe, am I beautiful? hahaha, idiot go this way, hohohoohoh I'm going to repeat that thing that person just said, in case you weren't paying attention and just smashing A!!! HIHIHIHIHIHIHI

Midna annoys me so much that it breaks my immersion and she was so ugly (in both forms) that it set my wii on fire just trying to load her ugly face on screen. Fi atleast is trying to be that AI guide and I think she achieved it brilliantly.

But you are right my friend, the best is Navi

@Snow-Dust oh yeah!! (--. — )

well Navi was all Hey Look!! Hey Listen!! Link!! I'm going to repeat that thing that person just said, in case you weren't paying attention and just smashing A!!!! Heeeeeeeeey!!

( ~_^) Now Tatl, she's a companion worth having.

@-DEMISE- That's just BS. I've been gaming for more than 20 years and Star Fox Zero is one of the very few games with just downright terrible controls. The reviews don't lie, I wasn't the only one. When only a select group of people can appreciate your controls, you've done something wrong. Still, there's no excuse for including traditional controls either. If you want to defend Nintendo's stupid decisions, fine, but next time, please refrain from using ad hominems.

I wanna play pikmin 3 with Bill!

I own it, and I hate it.

To put it bluntly, the controls suck. Miyamoto cannot convince me otherwise.

Well if this is what so called Nintendo 'fans' think of Shigsy , what would the haters say ? A few missteps in an unrivalled 30+ years of game design and now he must go. Not only are some peoples attitudes to Nintendo on the Internet somewhat xenophobic , they are now ageist towards Nintendo's hierarchy. The ramblings of the ill informed are as strong as always in the comments section of NL.

@Snow-Dust He is referring to the 3D Zelda games. Of course the CDi games don't count. Anyway, that's just 0.01% of the whole video. Fi is the most annoying character ever but I must respect you...

Yes, Miyamoto lied about Star Fox Zero...

@VanillaLake I'm honored for your views upon me
Well yea, Zelda SS is the worst compared to all the 3D and maybe even 2D other than four sword stuffs and PH and ST

It seems like the passion against Zero is real. I must play 64 to be in the loop.

For me, King Of Red Lions > Fi > Tatl > Navi > Midna. But I like her for her dance

It's expected he lied, he hates stories

@kingofthesofa LOL! It would be hilarious if he actually did that. (Then he really would be...relieved, of his position )

I have no idea where you got xenophobic from, though. I haven't seen a hint of that here, even in the most negatively critical views. And people are judging him on his words after his most recent performance, not based on his age. Perhaps you've been a touch affected by that nasty PC bug going around?

@Snow-Dust Haha, yeah, at least with Fi, she's in the sword, so we take out our anger on her with every strike! With Midna, she's just riding your @$$ in more ways than one the whole time, and there's nothing you can do about it.

@Snow-Dust @PlywoodStick My favourites are Tatl and Tael.

His stubbornness to force motion control on us is the most annoying thing Nintendo is doing right now.

Get outta here Miyamoto-san, you're dried up.

Miyamoto makes a solid point. It's so much better when you play a game without pre-conceived notions and you tend to appreciate it more especially if it's a good game. That especially applies to playing older games today. The problem is, video games in general are so expensive and many people have to prioritize their game purchases. This would be different if Nintendo had more of their first-party games at a budget price of $20/$40, or at least have good sales. I purchased several excellent games on other systems for $5-$10 (originally $60) thanks to special discounts.

" Games are becoming more of a consumable product, and it's getting harder and harder for people to let a game to sink in and enjoy leisurely."

While I agree to this somewhat, nothing in Starfox Zero (as well as a lot of Nintendo's recent output) says I should go out and play it. Why should I draw out my experiences on mediocre Nintendo games for as long as possible when I can cherry pick the best from a variety of systems? If I want to spend more time on it, I want to feel like I should spend more time on it. A game that can be 100% beat in an afternoon for £30+ is not worth it anymore compared to what 3rd parties and indies provide.

Besides, if you want us to try it, why not provide a demo, like just about every other reputable AAA publisher does? Would it kill you to provide the first level for free, so we can decide if the game is worth it or not?

@kingofthesofa vile at times, isn't it?

@Octane lol I don't think you know what an "ad hominem" is. Anyway, the "excuse" for not using "standard" controls is that they didn't want to. It's their game, so they can do whatever they want. As for the reviews, the vast majority of the ones that I read, including from the usual big sites like IGN, said that the controls might take some time to get used to, but that after a while they were easy to use and no longer a problem. And personally, I just find it utterly baffling that anyone could have a problem with the controls in this game. But even if you do have a problem with them, all you have to do is avoid making large motions with the gamepad and the reticle will only move with the ship itself, effectively giving you the same controls as a more "traditional" Star Fox game. It REALLY is not that hard to figure this game out.

Riding a unicycle is harder than a bicycle. So it can't be any fun. Riding a bicycle is harder than a tricycle. So it can't be any fun.

@PlywoodStick You beg to differ?

Looking at the libraries for the PS4 and XB1, I can safely say there is nothing there that makes me want to run out and buy either console. Even most of the big third party games that people would cite are available on PC, and I STILL don't want them.

Sure, there are a few, but there are more games on Wii U that I enjoy playing and will probably continue to enjoy playing after the Wii U is replaced.

I guess you're all hyped up for the next Call of Duty? Assassin's Creed? Elder Scrolls? Madden/Fifa? Uncharted?

I don't have anything against you if you do, but those games honestly hold no interest for me, they are boring and joyless to me.

@-DEMISE- Don't worry mate, I know what they are.

Of course, it's their choice, but that doesn't mean I can't criticise the game. Credit where credit is due, but when a game's bad, I'll say it too.

@Octane Star Fox Zero is by no means a bad game though, even with unorthodox controls that so many people claim to struggle with. I've played a lot of bad games in my nearly-thirty years of playing games, and Star Fox Zero is not one of them. If it is a bad game, then so is Star Fox 64, since Zero is essentially just a remake of that game. It might be lacking in length and originality, and the graphics might not be impressive, but the exact same things can be said in criticism of Star Fox 64, and yet so many of the people who say Zero is bad seem to somehow think that 64 is some kind of masterpiece.

@-DEMISE- Well, I'm not pretending SF64 is a masterpiece either, but it's still a lot better than Zero.

@Octane I really don't think it is better, and that's coming from someone who's played Star Fox 64 a hundred or more times and loves it thoroughly. It's just that it's old, and time and nostalgia make people less objective in the way they remember things.

I scratch my head when people piss and moan about devs "not making use of the gamepad" , then something like SFZ comes out and people cry that it's different. If you like SF64 better, go play it and be happy. The vocal minority is ruining the game industry and makes video game enthusists look like spoiled brats.

@beautifulstrong Nothing will make them happy.

I strongly disagree with everyone that says the control scheme of this game is bad. Quiet frankly, it's the best thing I've played this generation. It's incredible how you can play the game by just looking at the Gamepad and the TV screen visuals are pretty good too!

I fully intend to give it a try period. ^^