
Though some DLC and amiibo are still to arrive, leaving the development team with some work to finish off, it's certainly the end of an era for this generation of Super Smash Bros. The very nature of the Final Video Presentation was always going to be a tad divisive - the Fighter Ballot, in particular, had been a red hot topic for months. The confirmation that Bayonetta would complete the roster was welcomed by some and bemoaned by others, but overall the final flourish from Sakurai-san seemed apt for the series; it was full of detail, with flashes of humour and bombastic confidence.
When we ran a series of polls many of you seemed to agree, with the majority generally being satisfied with the broadcast as a whole. Considering how much was riding on it that's a decent response.
A question that pinged around the Nintendo Life team when it ended, though, is what's next? Where does Masahiro Sakurai take the series from here, assuming he'll still be leading it? How can the next generation's entry possibly top this one?
It was apt that, at the conclusion of the Final Video Presentation, Sakurai-san reeled off statistics that emphasized just how big the games had become. We've recreated them below:
- 58 fighters
- 84 stages between both versions
- 99 Mii Fighter oufit 'pieces' and 97 hats
- 743 trophies on Wii U, 707 trophies on 3DS
- 507 music tracks
While debates around game mechanics and gameplay for the latest entries are subjective, there's little escaping the fact that the volume of content in the Wii U and 3DS games is significant. It can hardly be accused of recycling old material to excess, either - though there have been HD versions of classic stages, for example, a decent percentage of the roster and stages are entirely new, utilising both first- and third-party IPs. As the dust settles and we look on at what these games feature - also factoring in online modes that were added for Wii U - it's rather striking to see how much it's evolved.

That is, as we've suggested before, becoming the Nintendo way. Splatoon has evolved significantly since its launch with new content, Mario Kart 8 eventually added 16 tracks, multiple characters and more besides, while Super Mario Maker is getting into a steady groove of major updates that add items, modes and improvements. Platforms within platforms, in other words, and Super Smash Bros. on Wii U and 3DS have been at the heart of that.
Unlike its frequently updated contemporaries, of course, Smash Bros. has heavily monetised its extras; the Mario Kart 8 packs, we'd suggest, were particularly generous with their pricing, especially once free updates to the racer are also taken into account. Yet Sakurai-san's game has followed more typical industry trends - though some modes and updates have been free - by charging relatively small amounts for individual extras like character, stages and Mii outfits, and offering bundles with minor bulk discounts. The end result, at the time of writing, is that the most affordable all current DLC can be - if buying for both 3DS and Wii U combined - is over $78; that's avoiding duplicated content within bundles, though multiple overlaps with some content may confuse some buyers. Even looking at it conservatively it's the price of the Wii U game again with a little extra, and we still have Corrin, Bayonetta and more Mii outfits to come.
While not all will welcome that, on a business level it undoubtedly works - in his most recent investor presentation, Nintendo President Tatsumi Kimishima stated that the Smash Bros. DLC was Nintendo's most successful, coming top in the list of top download sales.

What that likely means is that the next entry in the series, assuming it comes, not only has pressure to deliver similarly hefty volumes of content, but Nintendo's management will be keen to repeat the trick of successfully monetising DLC. Even beyond core profit, the regular additions to the game have provided valuable excitement around Nintendo as a brand, with video presentations / Nintendo Directs accompanying the most substantial releases. Across five major 'Collections' of DLC to date, in addition to features such as YouTube uploads and online Tourneys, Nintendo has made money and generated plenty of hype.
In addition to all of this, of course, the new entry on Wii U has achieved something that Super Smash Bros. Brawl struggled to do - it gained the approval of the competitive scene. Though Super Smash Bros. Melee is still just about the biggest draw for the series at landmark events like Evo, many thousands now tune in online - or attend the event - to see the top Wii U players battle it out. With the expanded cast, the continual revisions to try and improve balancing through updates and the generally snappier tempo of the matches it's won an audience, with Brawl somewhat joining the N64 original in the margins. Nintendo of America, in particular, worked hard to make it happen with the original E3 Invitational event and support of competitive tournaments, but ultimately it's noticeable that the community has embraced the new title.

Of course, this isn't the first time we've wondered how Nintendo could possibly improve on a key success, but there's no doubt that Masahiro Sakurai and his team have a significant task ahead of them - if they choose to take it on. Sakurai-san himself has spoken in the past about how each entry is bigger than the last, and the pressure that brings. Below is one of numerous examples where he's seemed exasperated by the conundrum, in this case from late 2014.
You could say that all the effort in the past to stretch out, keep pushing myself, and provide all these extra merits wound up tightening the noose around my neck in the future.
That may seem like it contradicts my personal desire to keep giving gamers as much as I can, but I don't see any easy answer for it. And yet, despite that, I also have trouble picturing someone else taking my place and providing all this value-added content without me.
Sakurai-san has often wavered between suggesting he's keen to step away from Super Smash Bros., to then stating that he can't possibly leave it behind in someone else's hands. He seems both keen to escape and, at the same time, obsessed with continually making it better - the lure of the acclaim and buzz from fans is up against the long hours and exhausting process of making these games. Where he stands on it right now, only he likely knows.
In any case, it may be late into the NX generation before we see Super Smash Bros. again, but it'll have to go a long way to 'beat' this gen's efforts. Improvements can certainly be made to some aspects of infrastructure online - Tourneys seemed to disappoint most, in the end - and the bonus 'fun' modes of Smash Run and Smash Tour were divisive. As a whole, though, it seems that the majority have hugely enjoyed this gen's entries.
After the opinion-splitting Brawl, with its slower pace, tripping and more besides, it feels like the latest Smash Bros. entries have not only been a return to form, but have shifted our expectations in terms of content - a roster of 58 with 84 stages can hardly be sniffed at. It's so sprawling, however, that upping the game next time will be a fearsome challenge.
We know Masahiro Sakurai, with his commitment and attention to detail, has the ability to take it up a notch again. Whether he wants to, however, is the key question that only time can answer.
Comments 107
Sakurai can do plenty! He can add Wolf, Ice Climbers, Snake, Isaac, King K Rool, and all the other highly demanded characters
Maybe consider other (better and variable) characters rather than adding a rather hefty amount of SIX fighters from the Fire Emblem series?
Still, I think that Sakurai has done a really good job!
*two less Fire Emblem characters.
*bring back Wolf.
*add at least one more Zelda character.
Nintendo has milked Smash and Mario Kart to death. It would be nice to see them take a few years away from both.
a story mode thing like the subspace thing in brawl,thats how to make a party game/ fighting game ultra light into a real game.smash is the most overrated game in existence.
@arrjayjee I firmly believe Nintendo will never let this franchise die.
Even if they have to do it without Sakurai, they will.
It's way too big of a cash cow.
@Cyberbotv2 "Milked?"
By releasing ONE entry in either series per console cycle?
You wanna top off smash4? Add waluigi and Groose. The true gods need to be unleashed.
It's been an amazing job. I really think Nintendo has reached the top in games like Smash Bros for Wii U, Mario Kart 8 and Super Mario Maker. It's gonna be really hard to surpass those games, I think Mario Kart 8 and Smash Bros Wii U are the best entries in the series, I hope they still have a lot of great ideas for the future entries in these series.
@Lilith93 oh really? And how's that? I would say it's not even close to be as overrated as the simple first person shooter COD series. I mean what's so overrated about it?
They should literally just use Smash Bros 4 as the base game going forward adding a huge expansion pack each time instead of starting over from scratch.
Smash 5 should just be an expansion pack.
Honestly, I think the game would would be better with expansions...or keep on with the DLC.
Add in some new modes, or items. Even new Assist Trophies and Pokeball Pokemon.
I don't actually care what Sakurai does next for the Smash Bros franchise. He has tons of ideas, so let him make it come true.
However, I hope Sora be a playable character in Smash 5 or in Smash 4 if Sakurai changes his mind about the "last DLC character" stuff.

I think Nintendo should give Sakurai free reign to do what he wants, assuming he wants to keep making games. I have an incredible amount of respect for Sakurai, if he wants to bow out gracefully now I think he's earned that right. I'd be sad to see a great inspiration leave but I wouldn't begrudge him a thing.
And whoever does the next Smash Bros: Inklings, Dillon & Paper Mario please!
If this truly is his Swan Song for the series, it could not have gone out with a bigger bang. This was the biggest and and the most fun I've had with a smash game (yes that includes Melee). To be honest though I'd like to see Sakurai move on the other projects. Kid Icarus shows just what he can do with even dead franchises... I think he should head up a Nintendo IP revival project. (Or just do whatever he wants really, either way it will be good.)
@Xenocity I agree! I think with Smash 4, they've created the perfect Smash game honestly. I'd just like to see more characters and stages (and modes) in the future.
@Ogbert Yes to Dillon!!! Also Dark Samus (and Lyn but I know there's already too many Fire Emblem characters).
I'm not sure how it could be better...okay, maybe bring back Melee's Adventure Mode (I miss that.), and don't let Tournament Mode be...whatever the heck we got in this game. Also, keep Smash Run if it's on another handheld, and maybe keep the Ballot in mind when deciding the roster (Maybe put the remaining characters in the top five as a consolation prize.)it would be nice for the runners-up to get into the next game as a consolation.). Anyways, you did good, Sakurai. I'm going to miss your wild ride, but as soon as you're finished with Bayonetta and Corrin, you need to take a nice, long vacation. Thank you.
@Cyberbotv2 Milked? There is literally only one game in both series per system.
@arrjayjee
That's what I'm thinking, especially if the NX takes off like they envision with 20 million units in the 1st year (kind of unreal, but who knows). Release the complete edition with all DLC plus 2 new characters and add the 3ds stages, done deal.
@arrjayjee I think this would be fantastic. The latest release has been such a labour of love, with total development time stretching over years, that to throw it in the bin and start again from scratch seems like a massive waste.
Add the that the fact that this entry represents a fantastic balance between 'twitchy' Melee and 'sluggish' Brawl, and I can't think of any major additions to the structure of he gameplay that would really warrant a whole new title.
The NX will want a Smash, and has the opportunity to offer an enticingly bolstered retail package for anyone who didn't download every part of the Wii U/3DS release. Throw in a few more old (or maybe even new stages), and combine the stages from 3DS/Wii U, and you'd have a monstrously impressive title.
I think this Smash is simply too good to go out with the Wii U, so here's hoping.
@Lastaofpizza That's Sora's current look? He looks like a girl cosplaying as Sora.
Next game will be $19.99 w/ the original 12 fighters, all others will cost $9.99 each.
Sakurai most certainly deserves a good long break. His team has done miracles with this game!
@Cyberbotv2
Smash Wii U was released in 2014. Brawl was released in 2008. Melee was released in 2001.
I'll let you do the arithmetic, but I believe answer qualifies as 'a few years'. You can fit life events such as 'all of secondary/high school' in that gap.
I don't really see where they can take it from here, aside from just throwing on more stages and characters. I imagine Smash 5, if there ever is one, will need to have some groundbreaking new mechanic or game mode to separate it from the previous entries. It could be argued that Smash 4 was the most complete and perfect realization of the current Smash template.
Let's let this be it.
I don't think there's a bigger Smash fan than I am, however... I want this to be the last one. This was such an accomplishment, and such an essentially perfect game, and I feel like poor Sakurai needs to finally rest. He's done enough, and if people are dissatisfied with it, then find another game to play. Unfortunately, Sakurai will be pulled into the next installment, and he'll top this one at the cost of inhumane amounts of time and dedication; by his own choosing, as well. Nintendo doesn't pressure him as much as he does himself.
@Tsurii I couldn't agree more! ^-^
84 stages. Oh only if there was 84 stages on the console version. I miss Corneria, Brintar, and would had loved to see Magicant on WiiU.
Yep, I personally would love to see how Sakurai would handle one of Nintendo's other IPs, like he did with Kid Icarus, but if he's not had one since Smash Wii U's launch I'd say the guy (and his team in general) are due a well-earned break. They've done about as good as they could've in meeting demand from fans, critics and Nintendo, so once Corrin and Bayonetta are done-and-dusted and released they should kick back a little.
But after that, give him Fire Emblem (lol), Mario, Starfox, Donkey Kong, F-Zero any of them and let's see how he can freshen them up. He sure did that with Kid Icarus Uprising. Heck I'd even take Kid Icarus Uprising 2 really, there's more he can do with that IP for sure. Just not Kirby. I don't like Kirby all that much. Sorry Sakurai-San.
Good points in the article. The pricing is a bit ridiculous, but you don't have to buy any dlc.
My smash is all worn out I think...but only time will tell. Let's see if I even get the NX.
I agree. It'll be extremely hard to top this one. There's not really anywhere to take the series other than more unique fight-styles from new characters. For the next Smash, regardless of whether Sakurai is at the helm or not, should definitely just build off of Smash 4. To start from scratch would be such a monstrous waste, and there would surely be the most amount of character cuts we've ever seen, which neither Sakurai nor us fans like doing.
Just build off of Smash 4. Maybe a few engine modifications so that Inkling can work better.
One thing's for sure though, take a long vacation Sakurai. You've more than earned it.
It's also the most ridiculously expensive Smash game of all time. Yes, the base game's price is fine, no problem, but factoring in all of the DLC and you're looking at the cost of another game or about 7 extra DLC characters and a handful of stages.
And don't get me started on amiibo...
(those cool, cool amiibo)
The freaking roster alone makes this game hard to top by default. Even factoring in stinkers like Dark Pit, It's a roster that may never be replicated.
Who knows where Smash can go from here, but oh man does it have it work cut out for it.
Pfffft! Still no DPad support for movement.
Anyway, looking back at it now: the price of the DLC characters and stages are fine if you consider the development costs. The only things that made it seem too expensive are the costumes which are just optional cosmetic items.
Instructions that I would give to sakurai:
Step 1: TAKE A LONG DESERVED BRAKE!
Step 2: Mabey try out another IP for a spin?
Step 3: If you do make smash 5, use Smash 4 and it's content as a base and keep building on that for future installments.
Step 4: Retire?
-Classic Mode is horrendous and is what happens when you put all the bad aspects of Smash into 1 mode
-Event mode is trash. 1vs3 galore rather than events with a very questionable definition of what challenge is
-All-star mode: WAKE UP. We have over 50 characters and all you give us is 2 freaking heart containers, 1 fairy bottle, 1 maxim tomato which is even worse than 3 hearts. Not to mention 1vs3 all the way in this mode. Not even friendly fire enabled for the CPUs what the hell!
-Smash Tour: Who asked for this!? It's an rng infested mode where nothing makes sense and the winner is f*** all because randomness is so fun, right?
-Online is still laggy, even with the LAN adapter.
-Does Smash 4 take place on the moon? My character doesn't have any weight to it.
-Why is nothing being done about how spammable air dodges are?
Smash 4 didn't set any standard. It only introduced a bigger roster, while managing to become a more shallow game than Brawl mechanically. Its single player modes are the absolute worst in the series.
Release complete wiiu edition on nx with a new mode or two
Ad 10 paid dlc characters
Count money
The only things I can think of you improve this game is a single player mode like Subspace Embassy, and the addition of Rayman (however, I accept there's no way the developers could add every most wanted fighter from every fan).
Also, despite what the article says I didn't think there was bulk discounts for the DLC. Every time I added up the costs of all individual items in a bundle, the price was exactly the same as the bundle price. Minor discounts for bundles would have been welcome, and I might have been more tempted to get a few mii costumes if they did this.
It's going to be tricky for the developers to beat this. Just adding more stages and more characters in the next game will struggle to beat Smash 4, and this approach would make development even harder. Sakurai deserves a long break after all his hard work. I wouldn't mind if he moved on to a different game, and someone else with fresh ideas created Smash 5. However, if Sakurai works on the next game then it'll surely be great.
I would like the next installment to have a different gameplay style. Maybe a 3D-styled game with a battle system similar to the Dissidia games.
I agree that "miracles" were indeed made in the creation of this game with regard to the characters, but as I mostly play Smash Bros alone, this was the least engaging single player Smash game for me (not counting the first one).
A new melee-styled adventure mode would have gone a long way. Smash Run is probably my favorite mode this gen, but once I got the Wii U version, I completely stopped playing it on 3DS.
Whats a little sad is that Smash along with MK8 didn't get played and appreciated by the larger gaming audience. It would be smart if Nintendo had those two remastered as launch titles for the NX.
This game will definitely be hard to top..
They should ad 100 characters in the next one!
But just like Pokemon, Smash has reached the point where the mechanics are all solid, and there isn't much more needed to change..
I would like a battle mode DLC to MK8
@EngieBengie
Classic mode was new and improved and also had an almost impossible final boss.
Event courses can be HARD! Especially the aura one. So don't think that they were all "defeat easily and win"
All star is easy, if you are a good smash player. If you find that there is not enough healing items, than do it with a friend. There is 2 more heart containers, and the extra person can do damage.
Smash tour is a game that you can play for the lolz every once in a while.
If smash had normal physics, then Wario couldn't jump and Kirby could puff and puff forever. If you don't like it, be Fox of Falco.
At least the online is not like SSB3DS. And this is the first home console smash to have the ability to play with a friend online.
Smash set the standard for almost any fighting game like this to come. The character roster was massive, the soundtracks were beautiful, and this took Sakurai-San and his teams full effort into making this.
Look on the bright side
@PokeMelon123 Classic is abysmal. It's RNG hell to its absolute fullest and flaws such as overpowered stage hazards and overpowered items become a very big problem considering there are achievements that require you to beat it at 9.0 intensity with losing a stock. No item switch to be seen, a basic feature that should've been implemented years ago.
Event was bad. You cannot claim to be challenging when the only way to challenge the player is to throw 3 characters at him with high handicap. That is NOT how you challenge a player. Like that Ganon one. nothing stood out and if it did, it's all for the wrong reasons.
Wario can jump lol. This game has absolutely no sense of weight. Getting back on stage is a given already with pretty much every recovery taking you back on stage from any angle, plus the 45 degree angle which offers you a boost PLUS ledge trumping, PLUS bigger ledge snaps. What is the point of making characters floaty? None. All the floatiness does is get in the way of good combo set-ups and that's it.
Whatever effort it took, it clearly didn't go to the single player modes. I find Rivals of Aether to be a more fun and enjoyable experience despite being much less bigger and only having 7 characters. Yes, it's my opinion but this game disappointed me hard. Nothing but frustration come of it.
@LztheQuack True but doing so would take a heavy toll on him as well and the fact he wants all characters on both versions.
@CharlieSmile they added the new one because they are building hype and he is incredibly unique like robin while Roy is a classic Marth and Ike are like opposites but other then them I can understand losing Lucina but she is also different then Marth so its up to that logic. Wolf is almost an exact clone but yes it should have come but that would almost be pointless where they just change 1 move and alter a stat or to and call it unique and 'm sure you wouldn't want that fate to happen to him as a character like it did dark pit or Dr Mario. Who would you suggest from Zelda series other then another form of Zelda or link and don't say anyone who is an assist trophy.
@Cyberbotv2 they are doing the opposite of milking it with 1 series of the game per system generation unlike call of duty and sports games.
@arrjayjee no they won't do that and yes they will do it from scratch as usual but while it is true that it will be hard to match it doesn't change the fact that it is so just wait for the day when stage builder lets us make stages that can act like regular stages with hazards, wait for the day when there are way to many characters that its hard to pick, and wait for the day that all music and characters are in smash as trophies and music and dream of that marvelous day.
@Xenocity If it was an expansion pack then they wouldn't be able to charge as much. without people complaining that its a scam, rip off, or they won't pay that much which is very true with people nowadays.
They could take a break from the fighting genre and make the next "Smash" a different genre. Smash is a really good game, but it also has the appeal of being a crossover of so many Nintendo games. Because of Smash, I feel Nintendo has held back on crossovers in other games to make that appeal more lasting to Smash.
I want a Smash MOBA on NX and have it be supported for years with new characters, amiibo support, costumes, and competitive play.
Smash Bros Beach Volleyball. Wario in a bikini. Enough said.
How can he top this game? How about add a story mode?
This game got boring fast without it.
@edgedino
People already complaining about Splatoon and Mario Maker's DLC as rip off, since they see the base games as incomplete.
People are still complaining about Mario Kart 8 DLC being too expensive when it was bundled together for $11.
People are still complaining about the price gouging in Smash Bros Wii U and 3DS DLC as it is all too expensive.
Yet very few people are complaining about Sony forcing them to rebuy all their PS1 and PS2 digital games on PS4 at full price!
@SupremeAllah
Sakurai and Nintendo received huge negative customer feedback over the Adventure mode in Melee and the Story mode in Brawl.
Very few people actually liked them.
So less content is better than added content?
I'd like to know how many people really didn't care for it. Very few people liked it isn't exactly scientific.
@SupremeAllah
Nintendo did customer research on them to find out how we all felt about the game.
The customers who took part said they didn't like the story and adventure modes.
The media were harsh on both modes too
NeoGaf, IGN, and Gamestop forums were negative on them too (Nintendo reads all 3 as form of feedback).
The old NSider felt the same way.
Those of us who liked them, weren't enough to warrant their return.
Sakurai commented on it interviews.
If people don't like the content, then it hurts reception of the overall game.
I want Sakurai to do whatever game he wants if he doesn't want to make a new Smash soon. If he burns himself out trying to top the amount of content each time every few years, this series will surely grow stale and, well, bad. The latest game was massive enough that I won't mind if we wait a long time for the next one. Besides, a new IP or Kid Icarus from him would be freakin' awesome, too! Or maybe someone else could take over the next Smash, after all. Better than Sakurguy burning himself out. He makes great games, so that would suck on many levels.
@CharlieSmile I don't know why people want a Fox clone with Wolf. Get rid of all clones and have no duplicate characters.
@SupremeAllah I'm all for more content especially single player campaigns. I'm not crazy about the trend of certain games going online multiplayer only without a single player campaign.
I still wish for a better solo/story/campaign like mode for this series. But as far as pure multiplayer brawling fun, this has been my favorite entry and I've owned them all. As for the future, I love seeing add on characters. I didn't get too into customizing my Moi fighters, so all the extra costumes are not a big draw for me. But I know others who loved that stuff. Even if the next Smash is basically this Smash with fresh graphics, roster, stages and better online functionality I'd buy it.
@Xenocity well i'm not them luckily but thats the backwards world we live in.
Character suggestions are pretty subjective, but I think there are other ways the game could expand that might be worthwhile.
Sorry for the massive wall of text, kind of just typed away. Smash is still fantastic!
It would not surprise me if there's a large, very large break before they make a new Smash after this. Sakurai sounds like he'd rather die than beat his brains on this series anymore, so he could really use a long break from it.
@MarinaKat yeah me too! At least we got skull kid tho.. But yeah Groose has a trophy for wiiU BUT ITS NOT EVEN AN ASSIT.. Oh well. They have to nerf him as much as they could because otherwise... Anyone who opposes is doomed..
@EngieBengie Since when was Smash ever about the single player content? Oh yeah, Brawl, and you know how that turned out. I'm glad that the series is focusing morw on gameplay instead of putting all of the budget on single player content that you won't bother with after the first week of you getting the game. It the same reason why people play Melee and Project M to this very day. Gameplay, balance, and character diversity is the 3 main fundamentals of Super Smash Bros, not single player crap. It makes me glad that Sakurai rushed the single player content and focus back on gameplay like many competitive fans wanted. To put it in a metaphor, there is no reason to add lots of extra toppings to an already absolutely delicious ice cream cone with a bit of sprinkles. (Inb4 someone comes screaming at me for acting like I hate Brawl, I still like the game. I just think the game should have focus more on multiplayer than single player stuff like subspace)
The single player in the 3DS release (I don't own it on Wii U) was quite sufficient to me. Smash Run was really cool.
@Chaoz Brawl is actually the best selling smash game of all time, unless you combine the sales of the Wii U and 3DS Smash 4 versions. Brawl comes in at about 13 million sold, while Smash 4 3DS is at 7.3 million, and Wii U at 4 million. I don't believe these include digital sales, so i'll give smash 4 the benefit of the doubt and say both are noticeably higher. Still, Brawl maintains its position at the top so it must have done something right!
Honestly, Brawl's issue was IN it's multiplayer, and not it's single-player. Tripping and other anti-competitive measures along with the most unbalanced roster in Smash history made problems for it. The single player stuff in it was really good, actually. Co-op subspace was a lot of fun, especially with friends who aren't at your skill level but still want to play smash with you. You could argue that the single player content took away from the multiplayer and caused this, but tripping wasn't an accident - it was an intentional move by sakurai, for whatever reason. Additionally, the unbalanced cast (metaknight being able to dominate so much of the cast to such a ridiculous extent, among others) was a problem Smash 4 had at launch, as well. Diddy kong was a beast and no other characters were really in the same league, until patches and updates fixed things. Brawl could have had this too, if it had been built with better online infrastructure.
Melee had a strong single player component as well - an excellent event mode, great adventure mode and an enjoyable, if somewhat vanilla classic mode. Break the Target was also good for getting your movements down in what would become the most demanding smash game in regards to movement. Smash 4 lacks most of this - a very weak and bland event mode, no adventure mode, no break the targets/race to the finish/touch the platform side games, no single player story shenanigan, nothing like a boss rush mode. It has Master/Crazy Orders, which while great don't make up for the boring side games and frustrating single player mode (which seems like it was created just too show off 8 player smash).
I won't disagree with you that smash 4 has what seems to be the most balanced roster in any smash game to date, but I do feel the weak single player side of Smash 4 is.. well, weak. Gameplay, balance and character diversity, as you said, are just as important in single player as they are in multiplayer, and I think a strong single player component can only help smash 4 show off just how well it did in those regards.
Smash 4 is boring; partly because the single player modes suck!
Classic mode has become needlessly clunky; and the lack of adventure mode truly is a crime.
It was said Adventure Mode was cut because of resources, but I'm pretty sure most would have been happy with a mode more similar to melee than Brawl.
Man...there's just no sense of discovery with Smash 4.
Cutting Mii's would be an improvement too. Use that development time to create alt costumes for fighters. I want to actually have an alt costume of the Dark Suit and Light suit for Samus, not alt-colors.
If Brawl had a more stable online, and the character roster was as large as Smash 4, I would prefer Brawl.
@LUIGITORNADO even with the random tripping and slower gameplay?
"What can Sakurai-san do next?"
If Sakurai can only add tons of Fire emblem characters and turn much requested characters (King Rool, Geno) into simple mii-hats, then he can better pass the baton to someone else!
"It can hardly be accused of recycling old material to excess, either - though there have been HD versions of classic stages, for example, a decent percentage of the roster and stages are entirely new"
For me it seems that there were a lot more recycled classic stages this time around. Sure, they made two versions of the game, but it was disappointing to see a new F-Zero on 3DS while the Wii U version got an old one, same for Earthbound.
Smash 4 is a great game and all but for the next title, I want to see an option to turn off the stage hazards, not just turn them into Final Destination (because that is NOT the only stage tournament players play).
@Henmii
Heck, for a second I already thought Geno was going to be a playable character when I watched the presentation.
I hope Sakurai makes the next smash game.
I don't know if whoever takes charges after Sakurai is done for good with the series would be able to produce something of the same level as the past 4 games.
@LztheQuack Problem is that since this game introduced more third party characters, he'll most likely remove more of first party characters in favour of third party characters...the only way that Nintendo can get a strong relationship between them and third parties..something that almost everyone wants them to do.
I doubt that the NX will have the next Smash seeing as how easily burnt Sakurai-San is at the moment....which is really telling me that the NX won't be launched so early.
I know what Nintendo can do... outsource more DLC to the Project M team.
Somebody tell them. Somebody tell them to acknowledge what the PM team has accomplished, how they managed to create a fully working Mewtwo, a complete Roy, and almost finished creating Lyn, Knuckles and Isaac from scratch.
Them working on more Smash DLC is a bit of a fairytale-ish-ly optimistic scenario, but it could work out so well...
@Henmii He had time to develop one character from the ballot, he chose the most popular one. Geno was NEVER going to be that one despite what the loud minority on the internet say, and K. Rool wasn't likely either.
Most probably they will update the game for NX.
@AlexSora89 no thanks. Besides, the Project M guys are done.
Welp, gotta thank Sakurai, Nintendo/others for making such a swell game with loads of content, in this day and age there can be so much content lacking, however that's not the case for this game. I bought both versions and got all DLC for both and did not regret wasting any money or such as the games/DLC are high quality! I got the special Smash Bros 3DS demo, got Mewtwo for free on both versions as well as getting the collectors CD's just for getting two games I wanted badly! (and I wanted Mewtwo back badly so adding a cherry on top of the sundae as you wish to say!), for making mii really excited and hyped for a game once again and to not be disappointed, I thank you daddy Sakurai! once we get that content hopefully in early Feb, just go and take a break, ya need it.
What can Sakurai-san do next? Take a well-deserved vacation. To the people telling him he should add more characters or make a new game, NO. He just got done making the biggest Smash yet. That's it. Let's be happy and grateful to Sakurai for Smash 4. His monologue at the end of the final direct about all of Smash 4's stats are so we don't ask for yet another one. We should give him a break and let him make what he wants to make from now on.
I think the true purpose behind the voting for favorite characters on the Smash ballot was to add people in the next entry in the series. This has let Nintendo know what the fans truly want, and given the time Nintendo can make the appropriate deals between other companies like Microsoft for King K. Rool and others. This takes the creative burden off of him while providing valuable insights into what the majority of fans want. Now he can just focus on perfecting the formula and balance of characters on a more powerful system. I will wager he will step down after the next iteration of Smash adding in the true winners of the Smash ballot and being hailed as a hero.
@B238ben:
I think you are so right!
@B238ben - No. NO! I won't think of this! I won't be able to sleep. No. Just no! It's way too long for Smash 5 if there's ever going to be any. No No No. No. no.
Meh, not really. There's still a lot he can improve on for the next game. Scoring system is completely wonky and there are balance issues galore. The game itself just feels very underwhelming when compared to Brawl.
Plus it would've been nice if the majority of the in game models weren't freaking imported from various Wii games.
@Chaoz I never said it was about single player. But when you put single player modes in the game, despite it not being primarily single player, it DOES NOT excuse the flaws in these modes. Flaws are flaws and they should not be tolerated. And speak for yourself, I loved the single player modes in Melee and the sense of completion that comes with it as you complete the modes. Now I do agree that gameplay, balance and character diversity is important. However Smash4 STILL doesn't do anything for characters like jigglypuff. Like you pull off rest successfully, why the hell do you not recover from it faster if you Rest successfully? Fan favorites like Marth are garbage. He was one of the most fun characters to use in Melee and pretty much the entire series, come Sm4sh and everything that made Marth great is gone. Smash4 needs to get closer to Melee than Brawl if it wants to live a long life.
And you shouldn't be glad a developer rushes anything. Heck, he could've removed Smash Tour and focused on making the other modes good.
It's very simple to improve Smash Bros Wii U/3DS: add an adventure/story mode. That was the only thing missing from those games. I would have been fine with Subspace Emissary HD on the Wii U version and Melee adventure mode in the 3DS version. The single player content was garbage in these latest entries.
Not sure why people think so highly of Smash 4. The single player aspect is pretty weak, especially compared to Brawl and Melee. All the mini-games from Brawl are missing, and replaced with an Angry Birds ripoff. Event Mode wasn't as fun compared to the previous games. Classic Mode is garbage, and for some reason the Wii U version has whatever the heck Smash Tour is over Smash Run.
I'm not really getting all of the harsh criticism aimed at Smash Wii U's one-player modes. My only complaint is that the Master/Crazy Hand orders makes it really tough to unlock custom moves but I haven't seen an apparent decrease in quality in comparisons to the previous entries in the series.
I liked Brawl's Subspace Emissary and Melee's Adventure mode was good but they're not modes that were designed to get a lotta replay after completion. All Star Mode is in full form still. Classic mode pits you against multiple opponents and giant characters as it always did. Still features fighting, like it always did except this time around you get a little bit of choice against who you fight next. We get a transformable more interesting end boss other than Master/Crazy Hand. The Smash engine has never been more balanced/polished and it just makes the Classic mode fights more enjoyable imo.
Not sure why people think so highly of Smash 4. The single player aspect is pretty weak, especially compared to Brawl and Melee. All the mini-games from Brawl are missing, and replaced with an Angry Birds ripoff. Event Mode wasn't as fun compared to the previous games. Classic Mode is garbage, and for some reason the Wii U version has whatever the heck Smash Tour is over Smash Run.
@Cyberbotv2 Smash, I can see why you think that's milked, so much DLC. Thing is all that DLC is good.
Mario Kart on the other hand? How? Two DLC packs (well also GLA but that was free), two! That's barely anything!
@Randomname19 Jajajaja Sora is dead...
@edgedino "and don't say anyone who is an assist trophy."
I'll say any character I please.
I have five suggestions for characters from the Zelda series.
1) Linkle.
2) Lana.
3) Tingle. (yes I'm serious.)
4) Impa.
5) Skull Kid.
any of these characters would be nice. even just one.
I'm not the best Smash player but this game has been awesome with the DLC surprises and Amiibo on top its been fantastic. Can't wait too see what Sakurai-san will do next but this guy needs a nice break now tho.
Best Smash game to date.
Had they put Smash Run in the Wii U version instead of Smash Tour, and added some type of campaign, it would be a perfect game.
I think Sakurai should lead an effort to revive the Ice Climbers franchise, because the irony would please me greatly.
Honestly, I don't want any characters from this game to get cut in the next game, I want all the characters that have been cut to make a return cries at Snake, Wolf, ice Climbers, Ivysaur, Squirtle, Pichu, and Young Link, and of course plenty of new characters, also the mii fighters definitely need to return, keep all the modes from this game, add smash run to the console version, make another Adventure Mode/ Subspace type of mode, bring back target smash for every character, better online servers, tons of new and unique modes, a better tournament mode, and honestly, make sure the whole roster is as balanced as possible. I know I am asking a lot, but this is honestly what would need to happen in order to top Smash Bros Wii U and 3DS. Both great entries in the series, hard to top them
Meh. Smash 4 is missing an epic Adventure mode like Subspace Emissary, along with the tournament modes and fun minigames of previous entries. The Smash 4 mechanics don't satisfy my tastes as Project M did, by marrying Brawl and Melee sensibilities while cutting the crap out and keeping the characters in (such as Wolf, Roy, and Mewtwo). I demo'ed Smash 4, but did not feel enticed to get it. It's a weaker entry than previous ones for me.
I don't appreciate Nintendo joining in with other companies to nickel and dime their players to actually have a full character roster, instead of just allowing them to be unlocked for free. Paying retail price is enough, they don't need more of your money to pay the developers.
At this point, with all the Fire Emblem characters, I wonder if perhaps Nintendo (and maybe even Sakurai, once he's taken a LONG vacation) should think about throwing their hat into the weapon fighting sub genre that Soul Calibur made popular. Base it around the world of FE: Fates, give it an Awakening touch (interdimensional magic portals and time traveling galore!), and you've got yourself a setting for a Fire Emblem version of Smash Bros.
As others have said, there's not much new Nintendo can do with a subsequent Smash Bros entry from here on, so why not try something else? Just let a Project 4M in the future handle all the missing characters and fix the wonky mechanics in Smash 4, like Project M did for Brawl, since Nintendo won't do it themselves, and move on to something new with NX...
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for melee HD ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
On one hand I can appreciate when people say that adding more characters wouldn't necessarily make the game better.....
but a lot of the appeal (at least outside the competitive side) is seeing new characters joining the fight. I think it's unavoidable that people will want more characters, doesn't matter if that's something that annoys or disappoints you.
I mean I didn't see any dramatic reveal trailers for game modes or stages or new gameplay mechanics in any of the directs. Did you?
I'm not really sure where they can go from here, but I agree with some other people saying they should create an updated version for the NX or some kind of expansion. I guess they could (and probably will) go back to the drawing board....but they'll have their work cut out for them I think. It's definitely a conundrum.
Smash for 3DS/Wii U will be very tough for Sakurai to follow. I sort of feel bad for the guy. Personally, I don't have a lot of ideas on how to "add" to the game, especially since that really isn't my job as a fan, but I believe Sakurai or someone on his team is more than capable of thinking of ways to improve on the series.
Smash 4 feels amazing, so ideally they leave the engine alone for the next game and focus entirely on purely adding onto the game. That means bringing back the entire cast (except for 3rd party characters that may be difficult, that'd be understandable) and adding more characters, stages, and game modes. Not that big of a task honestly.
What about a fully 3d smash bros? Circular like stages with a full range of motion. It'd be insanely difficult to pull off, in reality smash 5 just needs to do what a good sequel does: Don't mess with the successful established formula while refining problematic areas and introducing a new character or 2,...5,... 17.
Smash Bros. and Mario Kart on Wii U were amazing games, but I'm not sure if I'd say they set standards and be tough to follow. There is definitely room for improvement in each and I'm really interested to see what the NX versions will be like. But for now, I'm perfectly content with playing the Wii U versions.
I LIKED Brawl.
@gamerphil07 Thank you, conversation over. This performance has been wonderful, drop the curtain.
No more dlc (good lord please no more old characters), let Sakurai rest and really think about where the series could go next. I'd be totally satisfied if he decided not to make a sequel, this is an ideal ending.
It's weird to admit, but Sm4sh is the first time in the SSB series where I wasn't done playing and thought 'Gee, I can't wait to see the next one.' To be fair, the original SSB had the same effect, but I had never played anything like it, and I didn't know if it would ever see a sequel. Melee and Brawl, I played them and wondered how much better the next one was going to be. Sm4sh is such a well tuned machine, I don't see much they can improve, at least not for a long time.
I can honestly say I would be pleased if Sm4sh gets a Definitive edition released on NX and that can be the SSB entry for the next gen. Mario Kart, however, will need a new game next generation. Hopefully they tone down some of the random luck based chaos for more competitive skill next time.
"e can add Wolf, Ice Climbers, Snake, Isaac, King K Rool, and all the other highly demanded characters "
Barely anyone demanded them
"{ries at Snake, Wolf, ice Climbers, Ivysaur, Squirtle, Pichu, and Young Link," Why do people want bad characters?>
One or two years from now just announce a mega dlc pack with a dozen characters and stages. Easy money
This will be the last smash.
@EngieBengie I agree with all of that plus get rid of Lucina and put in Lyn with a unique moveset, throw in Banjo and Isaac, good.
@TheAceofMystery They should add more Pikmin
I'd be okay with the next entry having zero guest characters, just to differentiate.
Problem is, such characters are likely boosting sales, or at least general cultural awareness of the current Smash.
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