Reggie Fils-Aime Asks for Fan Trust With Metroid Prime: Federation Force

"There's no sugar coating it."

proceeds to sugar coat

Halo: Reach didn't star Master Chief but I really enjoyed it. Let's judge this game on its own merits. If we're lucky it'll expand the Metroid universe with richer background and history which can only be good for the series.
If we're unlucky then it'll be a minor glitch that everyone will forget.

Sure I'd like a new Samus title too, but I also like new IP and different takes on old IP. If you don't ever want innovation then just pick up the VC games and replay them.

I'd rather they try a few times, fail a few times, and succeed once with a brilliant game than never try and churn games out FIFA style - new year, new skin, publish.

Just my 2c

Yeah, about that, Reggie... how about no? I mean, hell no!

Also, you talk about not sugarcoating stuff, yet you do just that not even a minute later. Positive reception about the game itself is one thing, but the negative response from fans all over the world relates to how badly Federation Force represents the Metroid franchise, not necessarily about the gameplay.

Was this the Metroid game I was expecting? Not really.

Do I still think this game will be fun? Yes. After watching the Treehouse crew playing through a few missions, it looks super chaotic and fun, especially with local multiplayer.

They should announce Other M being ported to New 3DS......the Internet would completely ignore Federation Force for a good month or so

Lol Reggie you know damn well alot of fans won't give this game a chance. Sucks really not for the fans but for Next Level Games that is making this.

I do know I will have to try out the game first before I start blurting out profanities about the game.
No one expected this, but Federation Force could be a great game... or not. We shall see.

"giving viewers a very brief, unclear look at the game."

This, in my opinion, is what's keeping this flame of hate going.
If Nintendo had just had someone come up and say "We know that this was not what you might have been expecting. Know that we do have plans for a main series Metroid game, but it will take some more time to develop. In the mean time, we'd like to keep the very patient Metroid fans entertained with this."

Honestly, the sheer lack of information given to us about this game during E3 was just disgusting and disrespectful to the fans that have been waiting this long for a new installment...

The thing is though...Nintendo KNOW fans want a proper Metroid game, as Reggie said himself in a recent interview with Kotaku...

"We know fans want a straight Samus Aran game. We also know that the best way to launch that game is to surprise them. What other companies do is announce a project you may not see for 5 or 6 yrs. It's not the way we do things. We know the community wants a straight-up Metroid game."

...but speaking to Eurogamer, Prime series producer Kensuke Tanabe said

“If we started for Wii U now, it would likely take three years or so. So it would likely now be on Nintendo’s NX console. It’s a long time but it would need to include a lot of content, which would take a lot of work on the development side.”

So to me it looks like they don't have plans for a proper Metroid Prime game because according to Tanabe, they haven't even started.

I don't even feel bad for hardcore metroid fans since they act like crying children. Mother fans have been waiting for a new installment, but they know it won't happen anytime soon, and they have accepted that. F-Zero fans haven't had a game in over 10 years, and we feel fine, since Shigeru Miyamoto said that there is a good chance F Zero will return on the new console. On the other hand Metroid Fans had a game 5 years ago, which was decent, but most people like to ignore the most important part of that game which is gameplay, they only don't like it because of the story. I like Metroid, but I'm not going to go create a petition trying to cancel Federation Force. Sure it's not what I wanted, but it looks very fun in my opinion, Reggie and Next Level have my full trust in this game. I don't know a game in recent memory created by Next Level that has dissapointed me. I feel way more sorry for Mother and F-Zero fans, but I don't see them complaining or trying to cancel F Zero in Mario Kart, or the Fan Made Mother 4. Just because Mother 4 isn't made by Itoi, doesn't mean it won't be good. Itoi even said himself that he wants the next Mother to be made by someone else. And we were also patient for the official localization of Mother 1, wasn't it 26 years ago? Anyways they have already confirmed that there is a good chance that Metroid will be on the NX, Metroid fans just need to learn to be patient.

Yeah Reggie, you're not getting WHY fans are upset. It might look like Metroid, the UI and controls might look identical to Metroid Prime. But it's not a Metroid game. Even from the 40 minute play sessions we saw at the Tree House demos. This isn't the game fans want.

For every time Reggie gives the Wind Waker excuse, I can give him another big change in a franchise that was a disaster. For example The Legend of Zelda on CDI. Granted Nintendo had nothing to do with it but they handed off their IP and it definitely went into a new direction.

@TheAceOfMystery you're actually making the argument that Metroid fans need to stop crying because Mother and F-Zero fans have cried longer? Christ man, get it together.

"We're taking our great IP and transforming them and making them new again — making them fresh and appealing for the fan who feels they know the franchise."

Basically, "we're abandoning the fanbase that made these series popular, and casting a wider net to try and attract casual/core audiences."

I for one am getting the game for sure. I'm not excited because we all were expecting something for the Wii U. If this had been a 2.5d Metroid I think we would all be in a different boat about the game. It looks too generic at this point in time to say it will look good or not.

@Kaze_Memaryu Or maybe it signifies how entitled self-described Metroid fans are. Yeah, I'm going with that.

@OneBagTravel That's not what I was implying, I was implying that Metroid fans aren't the only ones waiting for a proper new entry in the series. Plus I don't like whining children that cry when they don't get what they want

I, for one, don't really see federation force being something that should never be. I like that Nintendo is expanding the Metroid Universe of games by almost "redefining" what a Metroid game is. It will be great if this game is very solid as a standalone game because that will give more credit to the Metroid name. Sort of like how Luigi's Mansion is not a Mario Brothers game, with platforming. Sure it is a spin off and not the 3D Mario that we hoped for, but it was a fun pass time that gave the Mario Universe something to expand from.

Federation force isn't a game where Samus on a desolate planet is the focus, but that doesn't mean it should be overlooked for trying to appeal others to the Metroid name. If it is a fun game, Metroid fans, such as myself, should be proud that the game is under the Metroid name and Universe.

I want to defend Reggie here with a few examples.

Instead of having a brand new Donkey Kong Country game, we ended up getting DK: King of Swing for the GBA. The same goes for the DS and we got instead DK: Jungle Climber. Did any of the fans complained that there wasn't a brand new DKC game for these platforms? No.

But are those games bad? No. They were fun and worth having for a DK fan.

Wario Land featured Wario as playable instead of Mario. Was the game bad? No! We got one of the best GB games ever made period.

How about the fact that we haven't gotten advance wars for the gamecube but we ended up getting batallion wars instead. Was there any issues? No.

How about the new Mario game for the Wii U? Instead of it being new, its just a sequel to 3D Land. So what happened to that? It sold well and is considered the best platform game ever made.

I think it’s more the fact that currently the game looks nothing more than a multiplayer title, set in the Metroid universe without any sign of Samus and to top it all off it has you playing a futuristic football game which involves shooting a ball with plasma canons. The premise is as far from a Metroid game as it could be. Now, if they had instead perhaps done a spin off similar to say Halo ODST, which had you playing not as the main hero, but as a normal soldier as part of the Galactic Federation sent off to find a missing unit of other marines or something, then perhaps people would have accepted it better. Hell, the story could have taken place in the Metroid Prime 2 story where you play as those Galactic Federation soldiers who get killed by the Ing just before Samus arrives and the final mission was to ignite the distress beacon; something like that would have been much more acceptable at first reveal.

And again, the Metroid series was asking it to have spin offs in the first place. Simply just playing as Samus alone is depressing kind of the reason why in Mario games, Mario isn't always the main star of the series.

I think it'll probably be a fun game, and people will chill out about it over time. It was really stupid to announce something like that with Metroid branding without also revealing another big, single-player Metroid adventure, though.

@ShaunOfNintendo Took the words right out of my mouth.

Nintendo made the mistake of setting Federation Force in the Metroid universe. If they had set it as it's own I.P the negatitvity would have never there.
There would still be the dissapoinment of no proper Metroid, but tnat would have been easier for most people to deal with.

Wow I'm seeing a lot of whining here. Did Nintendo do a bad job of introducing this game? Yes, no doubt about it. Does that mean that this game will be bad? No. It could potentially be amazing. I admit that I'd rather see a main series Metroid game, but I'm still going to give this a chance and see what it offers. Just because Samus isn't in it doesn't mean it'll be bad. Maybe offering a playable demo of the game would help to clear up some of the negativity surrounding it.

Dont worry Reggie I'm buying. The online play
Looked great!

@Applewithasn
Agree with you completely. I think people are overreacting with internet rage.

When will those Wind Waker comparisons ever stop?? This new Metroid is not just a change in art style.

1) what does this have to do with "Metroids"?
2) Why would I play this team based shooter when there is Splatoon?

When people hear "Metroid Prime", specific expectations and style of play come to mind. This title fulfills NONE of these expectations. This was an exercise in exploitation of the "Metroid" franchise's popularity.

Without the narrative of the proper Prime series of games, I have no interest in anything this game has to offer.

I wouldn't say I'm a hardcore Metroid fan but I do own all three main Prime games, and to me FF - outside of the fact that you know it's not Samus behind the visor - looks exactly like you'd expect a 3DS Prime game to look. Can't a 'spin-off' be part of the main series canon? My attitude is don't look a gift horse in the mouth, there'll clearly be a main series Metroid game for either the Wii U or the NX, and when it releases people will forget about all the whinging, crying and frankly ignorant and insulting (to the devs) attitude that's prevailing at the moment.

Also, to detractors, maybe try waiting to see if you enjoy the game when it releases, rather than crapping all over the work of talented people that you haven't even played yet.

This looks like it will be quite claustrophobic on the 3DS. And I'm certainly not a graphics-over-everything guy, but the game looks terrible.

Meaning: I'd probably give it the benefit of the doubt on Wii U. Not on 3DS, though, sorry.

@BigBabyPeach Exactly.

I feel bad for the people Next Level Games. Imagine you're working hard at a game and after you present it to the public more than 20000 people want to get your game cancelled. That's just cruel and I hope it doesn't affect the work spirit at NLG negatively.

The thing is.......first impressions are everything. Just ask Microsoft.
And don't you dare compare the beauty that is Wind Waker to that........thing you claim to be Metroid. Not doing yourself any favours there.

@TheAceofMystery Being patient is one thing but maybe gamers are tiring of all this waiting, uncertainty, false hopes, and having to make do with the same old same old? Yes this Metroid is trying something different but as I've always said since it's reveal, it came at the wrong time. At a time when the last main entry Metroid was 5-6 years ago. This spin off would have been fine if announced with another new main entry game within the last 1-3 years but certainly not over half a decade. Its why Metroid Pinball got zero backlash, because we were getting regular main entries.

Nintendo knows we've waited for these games (F Zero, Metroid, Starfox, etc.) not overnight but through the course of 5 years, sometimes longer and yes, we're finally are getting that new Starfox. But again that's a main entry in the series, not a "Slippy's Dodge ball" or whatever spin off.

As far as Federation Force goes I'm sure it will be a fine game but I can see fans boycotting it out of anger. To REALLY save this game, I think a demo is a must, maybe delay it till just after the NX reveal and do a trailer for a new main entry Metroid even if it's just all cutscene footage. It would not matter if it won't be coming for 2-3 years, at least you can assure the fanbase 100% an all new main entry Metroid is coming for NX, then they can be more forgiving towards the spin off game...

I trust! NEXT LEVEL GAMES are superb devs!

What if this game helps define why and what happens in the next Metroid game. Maybe this is a start of a new segment where there are Samus Prime games that offer the isolation and exploration of war torn planets destroyed by the Federation Force Wars. But why wait on details when I can be angry for no reason now. The laughable part.....all of 22,000 people have signed the petition, and half of those are probably Nintendo hating trolls. I could start a petition to change Friday to Fartday and get more signatures

It sucks for the developers, but Nintendo knew darn well that people have been begging for a 'real' Metroid game for many years. So, how can they be suprised about the negative reactions they've been getting.
Sure, it might be a fun game, but it's not what the fans want. And no matter how good it will turn out to be, it'll never be the game people have been asking for. It would be so easy to make a Metroid game that the fans would love!!! Nintendo really should know better... but then again, it's Nintendo... they rarely care about what their fans want.

Reggie, you're still a tool!

I would say the comparisons to Wind Waker are fair. When people saw what little gameplay there was to Wind Waker before it was released, Wind Waker looked bizzare. Much more cartoony and sailing around on water. Of course you still played as a green tunic wearing boy, but the game just didn't seem to be as graphics pushy or ground breaking as Ocarina of Time. Not what you wanted for The Legend of Zelda, but opinions changed when people played it.

Reggie, I know you have good intentions. But sometimes you just need to know when to stop talking.

@Artwark I certainly wanted a new DKC game over King of Swing. A lot of DK fans also did. So that's perhaps not the best example.

Considering I already dislike this game, and it's only getting 30 levels, I'll buy a better Nintendo game instead of giving Federation Farce a chance.

Nintendo game has online multiplayer. Right there alone makes it the best Metroid ever, and we don't even know much about the main game.

Look folks, the Metroid you THINK you want doesn't sell well. They went in a different direction. Let them try.

I don't think it will be a bad game at all. Next Level have proven themselves several times, and looking at the Metroid universe through eyes other than Samus is a cool idea. I don't think the bad reaction is because people genuinely think FF will be a bad game, but because people have been waiting for a big Metroid adventure for a long time and Nintendo instead decided to give us a low budget handheld game instead. If it was coming alongside a single player Wii U game I think people would be pretty excited for FF.

And enough comparisons of The a Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker and Metroid Prime: Federation Farce. Wind Waker didn't take out the exploration and adventure Zelda has like MP:FF has taken out the isolation in Prime. Wind Waker didn't replace Link with a generic Hyrule soldier. And while WW had a nice looking cartoon style, this has a cheap Chibi style. Zelda didn't have as big of a gap between games at the time either.

@Applewithasn Part of Wind Waker looking weird is due to it bugging out on stage.

SUPRISE Zelda U is actually a platformer where you don't play as Link.

Transformation, the true reason for the delay...

SUPRISE Zelda U is actually a platformer where you don't play as Link.

Transformation, the true reason for the delay...

I want 'Silent Hill: Pub Skittles', Konami make it happen.
Trading on an existing franchise is one thing, but if you alienate the fans of that particular franchise whats the point? Its not just an art style, its a matter of gameplay, that sense of been lost in a weird, decaying and lonely word is kind of at odds to what were seeing here. It may be great fun, but why call it 'Metroid Prime'.

I'd guess a good comparison would be 'Resident Evil: Operation Raccoon City'.

I can't believe the way the internet has acted...well then again, I can. Got to have something to complain about. Seriously though, why can't they do something a little different under the 'Metroid' name? They never said there never will be another game staring Samus again that plays like all the other games. I know it's been a while, but the reaction to this game has just been childish.

@Nintendo_Ninja
Yunno, you're right. Wind Waker did keep the Dungeon Crawling and didn't replace with a Goofy Hyrule Soldier.
It doesn't mean though that Federataion Force won't keep the exploration of one, or multiple, planets. We just need to play and see.

@QuixoticRocket A lot of Halo fans disliked Reach and pointed to that as the decline in the franchise

@Nintendo_Ninja "I'll buy a better Nintendo game instead of giving Federation Farce a chance."
Fine, whatever suits you. Just don't start to complain about the game.

Nintendo doing their own thing as always. Whether you like it or not. Big N did not impress me this E3. It's like they know the Wii U suck and said f--- it we aren't even going to try anymore. With the 3ds it's like so many people have one. Make a game slap the metroid name on it and who cares if people don't want it still will sell millions.

This whole Federation Force stuff just made me think of the Metroid fanbase as just disgusting cry babys. Disliking every single MP:FF video, making a petition to cancel the game, crying about it on forums and comments.

I am a fan of the Chibi-Robo franchise. I wanted a true Chibi-Robo game like the GCN version. I got Zip-Lash. Did I dislike every single video of it and want it canceled? No. I'll just try out the game when it releases.

Metroid fans just need to calm down because nothing you all say will change Nintendo. I expected it to calm down by now, just like how I calmed down after seeing Nintendo's E3 2015 (just watch E3 2008 and you will feel better if you haven't gotten over it by now , its good Cammie Dunaway left Nintendo....) Metroid fans will just be seen in a negative light now by Nintendo and the world seeing how annoying and child-like they behave when they don't get what they want.

Just wait for when Metroid: Damn gets announced.

@DarthNocturnal
That's another problem is that they haven't even begun to to start a new main series game. They claim those dormant series are lacking in ideas yet we see the new super Mario series doing the same thing every 2 years.

The biggest issue with trusting Nintendo for me on this is that are you willing to spend 40 dollars on a game you weren't impressed or wanting in the first place? When we're the customer with a wallet asking for what we want is kind of obligatory

My prediction is that Federation Force game will sort of be like The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords. Took a series that was predominately single player and made Multiplayer. Four Swords used multiple Links because they split him up by personality.
Sure they could have split you up into multiple Samus's but they didn't want to have that story element and the Metroid series is already story heavy enough to not screw up continuity by bringing that story device into the series.
What I would like is that they have Exploration of an ins and outs planet and Avatar strength progression. That is what Metroid is to me and if they are trying to broaden Metroid's horizons with a fun multiplayer experience for the people that skip out on Metroid because it normally doesn't have that, I'm on board.

Trust me, Reggie. I won't be getting this game.

So much of the perception of a game is in how you present it. The trailer opened up room for some hype, fueling the expectations a bit more. And then...

I mean, I remember how many chat rooms went nuts when Majora's Mask was announced. Imagine if halfway through the trailer and tease bits they revealed that it was just a game for you to terraform the moon before it hits the surface.

Had they framed it right, that more to the Metroid story is coming but that this is in the meantime, then I think it would have gone over better.

It's also fighting with Splatoon for game style based on the videos, and that comparison won't be kind to Federation Force.

This "Metroid" game isn't a Metroid game. The problem is that it bares the name METROID, they could have called it Super fun, shoot at things 3D, and everything would be fine. The only reason they named it Metroid is to try to sell more copys and everyone knows it.

@bubby444 Or maybe it's set in the Metroid universe, using parts of the lore and maybe adding to the series itself? Just because Samus isn't the main character does not make this a pure cash grab.

I really wish he would stop bringing up the Wind Waker. At least Wind Waker was a true Zelda game at heart.

I really don't understand how one can be so blockheaded ...
It's a new Metroid game, yes. And it's a spin-off title ..... so why all the rage? It's just a Spin-off title, not the main line of games .... I really don't get the Metroid-Fanbase ....

@GrizzlyArctos, I don't even care about this game as much as I care about the fact that Reggie says that he knows what we want. Well, does he know That we have been asking for a new Metroid game for years now. And that people have been saying how cool it would be to have a HD Metroid game even before the Wii U was a thing. And instead of "listening" to use, they give use this. That's why Metroid fans are so upset.

The fault here, Reggie, is that you've created and showed something that even requires such statements in the first place.

You think Sony is having to assuage fan worries with statements to trust that Uncharted 4 is going to be fine. I think not, because that game looks like it's giving fans absolutely everything they could have wished for from a sequel in 2015, and possibly even more.

I think that's all fans of Metroid wanted—to not have to worry and have major doubts based on what they saw.

@Kirk, nicely said.

@bubby444 I try

@bubby444 That's not what I was saying. You wondered why it has the Metroid title, and I responded that it was part of the Metroid universe. Simple. I understand that people want a proper Metroid game, so do I, but that isn't to say that Federation Force will be a bad game simply because it's a spin off. Did Nintendo do a bad job at introducing this game? Yes, but that doesn't mean that the game itself will be bad. Wait for more to be revealed about the game. You never know, it might actually be a good game.

You guys can complain about this game all you want, I'll be playing a new Metroid in 2016 that has online multiplayer. I'm actually excited that they decided to do a different take on the Metroid universe.

@bubby444
To be fair Reggie has less say over what games Nintendo makes since he's not in Japan. That said Next Level is a U.S. Based studio so I don't know why

@TheAceofMystery
Actually, most dislike other for the terrible gameplay as well. Only look like a metroid game, like smb2 was a mario game, or epic yarn was a kirby game.

Other M was essentially a spinoff.

F-zero is different, last great one was gx/ax. It's a multiplayer focused competitive game. We can still play that overcand over again. Metroid, you play through and don't touch it again for a few years.

Mother fans, well they get my sympathies.

Also, there are metroid fans, then there are prime fans, with abundant overlap, but those waiting for another classic metroid game have been waiting a long time. And they'll probably be waiting yet longer. Hopefully axiom verge comes out next year.

a Free Demo will really help this title.

@bubby444
We know this.

That's what spinoffs are. They carry the name, but offer a different kind of game.

@Josaku
Because it's a spinoff to a series with only a handfull of titles. It's been 8 years since the last prime game, and they give us a spin-off

I'm not saying this can't be a good game. Hell, it might end up being the best FPS on the 3DS, my problem it that it's not the Metroid game the fans have been begging for for years now. And the fact that they haven't even started a new proper Metroid game makes me feel like Nintendo is giving me and the rest of its Metroid fans the middle finger.

@khaosklub
Other M was most definitely not a spinoff. It was a Metroid game. Exploration, advance by upgrading weapons, all that good stuff.

And it was fun. It wasn't perfect- I would have preferred a Nunchuk/Wiimote control scheme to allow better movement and already have Wiimote aiming at screen for missiles, but whatever. It worked.

Nobody's saying it's Metroids finest example but good grief, the game was decent.

@Nintendo_Ninja
And yet it's getting 91% from critics and 7.8/10 from users on metacritic.
The Halo "fans" also claimed that ODST was the death of the franchise and not a real Halo game, and then they said the same thing about Halo 4... I'm not so sure these "fans" are actually fans. All they want is an HD remake.. and then a 4K remake and then a holographic remake of Halo 1.

Maybe they should just release an HD version of the first metroid. Sharpen up the sprites, make it widescreen. Never actually make a new game. Fans HATE new games.

I am only being slightly sarcastic. Without actually seeing much about the game people are signing petitions to have it cancelled? Those are NOT fans. Those are nihilistic whiners who don't want to take a chance on anything.

If you don't like it, don't buy it. But don't be surprised when the rest of the world pick it up and you get left behind mumbling into your beer, alone at the bar about how game X was the death of the franchise.

At least wait and see if it's a bad game. Then complain it erodes the Metroid universe. Premature complaints are just... sad.

@JaxonH, That's something a lot of people are finding it hard to understand. We didn't want a spin-off. And Nintendo has had plenty of time to make Prime 4.

Federation force may be a fun game, but it is a metroid game in name and skin only. Prime fans want those battle mechanics, explore a lonely planet, scan everything in sight.

This game is pretty much the equivalent of a new super mario bros featuring only toads, and no powerups aside from mushrooms, and it's one screen challenges ala mario bros.

Could that be fun? Yes, is itva legit mario game? No.

This is such a lose-lose scenario. Federation Force does good, 'Oh geez, guess people love this new style of Metroid, let's make more like it!', it does bad, 'See, Metroid simply doesn't sell. Guess we're not making another Metroid for a decade.'

@JaxonH
It was a rail shooter gone wrong, mechanics were not a fine tuning of either the prime or classic mechanics.

While the names where all there, you could have given it a new skin, and no one would call it a metroid clone. It's a spin-off. Just like super mario bros 2 was. All the primary elements of a mario game was there, but no one says they're just like the other games.

@bubby444
Understood, but consider some of these realities that ppl choose to ignore.

The fan backlash at Other M, which wasn't a great Metrod game but certainly wasn't bad, really brought slot of negative press and lost investment. Over a game that was actually pretty good. I think they wanted to give the franchise some space. Also, by the time it came around for them to consider making one, perhaps there wasn't enough time left with the Wii U soon transitioning to NX due to it's failure to catch on.

And maybe, just maybe, they do have a 3DS title in the works that isn't ready to be revealed. Maybe not.

Point is, they're gonna do what they're gonna do. I'm sure they have reasons for it, not just spin the bottle on our next entry. Remember the outlast wanting Majoras Mask? Then we find out the game had been in development for years?

They're gonna do what they're gonna do. They know ppl like Metroid, so just leave it at that. But this kind of outlast isn't helping matters. It will only serve to show them the franchise only brings bad publicity, and maybe it's better off buried for good, especially since there's only ONE region in the world that even buys Metroid games in any meaningful numbers anyways...

Someone mentioned 'Slippy's Dodge Ball' and it got me thinking, should this be a Starfox spinoff instead? There could be Starfox characters in the suits and I think this would be much more interesting.

I'm struggling with this too if you hadn't guessed. Especially after some lame EA lookalike game gets announced during the Nintendo Championships then my fears are realised! It's not is it? Oh man, it actually IS the next metroid game. It's not a good way to start.

I'm hoping there is some cool amiibo support in this to be announced. I think that's where they are going with this. The Starfox brand would still suit it better IMO though, is it just me?

@EXP
The capcom method

@khaosklub
SMB2 was most definitely not a spinoff. Neither was Other M.

All games will be different from title to title. But main series entries follow the same formula. And besides Prime, there hasn't been any other 3D Metroid games to even spin off of.

You can argue this point all day but Metroid Other M was no spinoff.

Federation Force, Metroid Prime Pinball, Metroid Prime Hunters... Those are spinoffs.

@JaxonH - You think people here know about Jak X?

I understand the uproar, but I have to admit I don't get the petition. You don't want it, don't buy it. It's not like Next Level Games was ever going to be making a Wii U Metroid Prime, that's not who they are or what they do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Level_Games

I think instead of mentioning WW Reggie should be talking about Starfox Adventures. Everybody hated that game but it was great, 1 of my favorites. Mostly positive reviews on Metacritic, 82 metascore, 7.6 user score. But I know the Starfox fans hated it.

http://www.metacritic.com/game/gamecube/star-fox-adventures

Another of my favorite franchises, Jak and Daxter, also had a spinoff game like this one - Jak X: Combat Racing, but that didn't sell very well. So that backlash could manifest itself in poor sales.

Jak and Daxter - 3.6m
Jak 2 - 2.7m
Jak 3 - 1.8m
Jak X - 0.5m

Combat racing was not what the platforming fans wanted. I think they deleted all that X code, haven't seen it since.

Yap yap yap yap, that seems to be all your good for, Reggie. The games graphics look like crap, ther is no Samus, the characters and creatures look cartoonish looking, and the worst is it's coming to 3ds when the Wii U desperately needs games. Just face it, you f*ed up!

No matter though, I moved on from Nintendo (except their old and GOOD systems) and bought a ps4, cause Sony and Microsoft listen to their fans and the third party, unlike you.

@JaxonH
Doki doki panic, I mean super mario bros USA, I mean super mario bros 2 was no a spin-off? Get off it!

Prime is a spinoff metroid, pinball was a spin-off prime, other M was a spin-off metroid, federation force is a spin-off prime.

Wait, so why was hunters a spinoff when other M wasn't?

"That's what spinoffs are. They carry the name, but offer a different kind of game."
Your words. Other M carried the name, and offered a different kind of game. I mean, it was a third person 3D metroid... the only one of it's kind!

I wonder how would the fan reactions be if it was Splatoon Federation Force instead.

@rjejr
Probably the fear that if this does well, this could be the new face of the prime games. Whereas, if it was it's own IP, there would be no such worry.

Star fox games are about flying around shooting things. If adventures did too well, star fox might be a furry zelda clone. Also, furry romance makes some uncomfortable. Fans didn't want that to be the standard for starfox.

I mean, honestly, if federation force broke records, nintendo would have to be stupid(or just nintendo) to not make more prime games like that.

@Iggly
Probably negative. Saying that they're milking the series, the actual game is still be released to us, this new ip gets two games already and [established series] gets nothing!

@Yorumi
Yeah, and that scares fans when a spinoff does so well, because that could be the end of the mechanics they love so much.

Also, I tried playing assualt, got in a tank, then never played again. It wasn't a well designed game at all. I worry about bass ackwards control schemes for the new star fox.

@khaosklub - FF doesn't have to be the standard, any more than the non-stop Zelda titles on the 3DS have changed Zelda on Wii U. 2 different systems, 2 different sets of games.

Well until NX and it all converges into 1. Or maybe both on 1 disc. I'd like to see NX be the home console that we buy games on disc, but the handheld part function like PSPgo where we download low resolution stereo sound versions of the game for on the go, and they share 1 save point. And if you only wnat the low res handhled version that would be download only on the eShop for a much lower price.

I'm still working out the details, but it's a liitle bit PSPgo, a little bit Dreamcast VMU. Not sure what Ntinedo will do, but I'm expecting something along those lines.

@khaosklub
Super Mario Bros 2 was a unique situation. But still followed the main platforming blueprint, to a degree.

Hunters was a spinoff because it didn't follow the staple Metroid formula. Prime and Other M are not spinoffs because they do still follow that main blueprint.

DE-MO! DE-MO! DE-MO! DE-MO! DE-MO! (Records his voice and plays it on a bunch of loud speakers.) DE-MO! DE-MO! DE-MO! DE-MO! DE-MO! No. Seriously. I don't wanna drive to an out of town Best Buy during these digital events just to maybe play a demo. Fans are scared to death of the new Starfox because of the controls, they're freaked out at the new Metroid spin-off, they're dying to try Mario Maker. Just give us a DEMO! Even if its testfire or limited to a weekend. Or pack it in with another Nintendo game like the olden days. I wanna TRY this stuff NOW! Give me a Federation Force: First Hunt. I want to KNOW what I'm gonna preorder. I want to be able to properly dispel negativity rather than speculate or feel like an idiot months later. Ok. We get it. Nintendo's e3 sucked. So they can help the world get over it by at least letting us ALL try the controversial games they announced. Thats just how I FEEL. I'm reading so much negativity that I just wanna be handed a controller, and I just wanna experience SOMETHING. Maybe if we all can try an online demo of Federation Force like we got to try Splatoon and Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate, players might get sold. Heck, Splatoon DID NOT appeal to me until I tried the testfire weekend. Then I bought the whole game digitally and ordered the amiibo. So. Theres my argument.

@JaxonH
And what is this blueprint? Prime does not feature the platforming aspect of classic metroid. Other M has a completely different combat mechanic, and is the perspective opposite of prime, where most of the game is third person, and a few parts require first person mode, prime was the opposite.

Smb2 was a completely different game given a mario skin! In that case, smash and street fighter are the same game, because they share like 90% of features, the blueprint is the same!

@khaosklub
Perspective is irrelevant. The platforming was still there, in 1st person view.

Perspective can change. Combat mechanics can change. It's the core formula of "person in Chozo suit exploring areas and upgrading weapons to reach new areas to progress".

That has stayed the same.

And yes, like I said, SUPER Mario 2 is an absolute horrible example for you to give. Precisely because it was a different game. But they did still change it to fit the mold of Mario, to a degree. It's still a horrible example.

Price it at $20 or lower as an eShop release and I'll bite. Not paying $40 for what is essentially a poor man's Lost Planet 2 or Evolve. If Reggie wants to be an idiot and try to defend this game with Wind Waker as an example, he should've made sure this game was AT LEAST on the level of EX Troopers first; that game is ancient in 3DS years, but OBLITERATES this game in terms of visuals.
EX Troopers was almost nothing like a Lost Planet game; graphics were cartoony, gameplay was different, and premise was different. However, it was beautiful. I don't know how fans received it, but I felt that the game stands up well on its own.
This, however, looks like a half-assed attempt at making a game that many other devs have successfully made many times before.

@rjejr
They could make a zelda game about farming to stop ganon from messing up people's health and it would sell. Both kinds of zelda do very well.

Metroid doesn't pull numbers like zelda, but if federation force does, well, the smart business move would be to make only federation force type games. Geez, just look at the wii, and nintendo abandoning fans chasing after money.

Fortunately though, nintendo isn't known for rational business decisions

@JaxonH
They only gave doki doki panic new skins, nothing else was altered. It is a perfect example, because if you take out the metroid skin from other M, no one would say it follows the blueprint. Other M was actually a railshooter changed to more resemble the metroid formula!

So, halo and gears of war are the same game? I'd never think to say that a 3rd person shooter and 1st person shooter are the same games, they are genres unto themselves. How can you say that games in different established genres are not spin-offs from each other? I could make tetris game with samus exploring in the background and collecting power ups to reach new areas based on my puzzling, and that fits your blueprint!

Metroid on the nes had more platforming in the first 20 minutes than an entire prime game!

That's like saying mega man power battles wasn't a spin-off of classic mega man!

@ricklongo Whether its good or bad doesn't matter. The point is that it turned out to be a fun game along the sequel. Making spin offs is something Nintendo always did from the beginning. Who would've ever thought that Wario games can be just as amazing as Mario games because he's a spin off character?

@Yorumi
Kinda what everyone is doing now, mario and Zelda probably sell a lot more than the other games historically. Probably sold more consoles too.

@Artwark
Yeah, but that spinoff was an actual new IP. Wario has 2 series, one which basically ate the other. That's probably what fans worry about. I would have loved a wario land 5. Oh well, warioware does waaay better. We don't even get classic wario amiibo!

@khaosklub
I can't help but face palm right now.

Different games are obviously different games. One importantly, no, VITAL part is having the same character in the same universe.

Sorry Reggie, but if you want me to trust you guys, you need to show me something legitimately worth getting excited about. Because this entire generation you've been lacking those kinds of new experiences I've been waiting for. Federation Force isn't truly a new experience, it's just the main Metroid gameplay minus the exploration and iconic abilities with co-op thrown in. Now this game could be good, the mission style gameplay does have potential, but it needs to use Metroid's gameplay in a new way. Like if we had longer maps with more exploration and a greater variety of abilities, then the co-op gameplay would be more fun.

@PanurgeJr Go with whatever excuse you want, doesn't change that it's an awful Metroid game.

I'm not interested in Federation Force right now based on what I've seen. It looks like a "for fun for kids" kind of game, which I'm not interested in buying a Metroid game for.

If you want to change my mind on that I need to see game play footage that proves otherwise.

If you're saying I should be interested in a "for fun for kids" Metroid game, well, I'm not. You could have made this into another IP but choose to attach "Metroid Prime" on the name for marketing purposes.

@JaxonH
Final fantasy? Ass creed? Street fighter 3? Somewhat zelda?

Different games are obviously different? Like doki doki panic and super mario bros?

You're face palming, but you're the one spouting constant contradictions.

"That's what spinoffs are. They carry the name, but offer a different kind of game."
Again, same characters and universe, but different kind of game? Like different genres? Maybe like fps and 2D platformer? Or completely different types of combat?

'Perspective can change. Combat mechanics can change. It's the core formula of "person in Chozo suit exploring areas and upgrading weapons to reach new areas to progress".'

So, gameplay can change, because combat is not a core mechanic, right? So long as the names are the same and certain other zelda mechanics are there?

@khaosklub
Dude, it ain't rocket science.

You still shoot missiles, you still shoot your arm cannon, it's not like the combat was TOTALLY DIFFERENT.

Whatever, believe what you want. I really don't care. It's like pick out the common items- you have blue, red and green. Sure, one might be a little lumper and not as tall, but they're still all blue, they're still all wooden, they're still all the same size.

Perspective is just the manner in which you perceive the game. It's not something that gives credence to being a spinoff. ESPECIALLY since a 3D Metroid had never been done before.

By your estimation, everything is a spinoff. Oops, Mario has a new acorn suit! That's a new mechanic! That changes the "core gameplay"!

Good grief

@Yorumi
Well, starfox is showing decline, and most developers are treating their franchises like this, because as graphics improve, games are getting costlier to make and there's more competition. From a business perspective, it makes sense. The demand for high end graphics is killing the industry, especially when low budget phone games are more profittable. Eventually high end mobile devices will kill that market too

@JaxonH
No, adding new mechanics doesn't make a spinoff, taking away mechanics can, if they are replaced with new mechanics.

Is new super mario bros and super mario 3d world the same? Nsmb is the evolution of the super mario series, sm3dw is the evolution of super mario 64.

If super mario was replaced with yoshi in 64 (like in the ds game) and mario was not in it, only yoshi island characters, no one would call it a mario game. Just like how super mario world 2 was a spinoff, which evolved into yoshi story and wooly world.

@Yorumi
Depends on how expensive gcn era games were in terms of graphics. They also don't sell as many consoles, which makes potential profits lower.

And games also take a huge time investment compared to before

It is a Nintendo game, even if they half ass the game it will still be good.

The problem is they are dismissing the fan base that would even take a Xeodrifter style remake of Metroid 2 and would be ecstatic.

@Kaze_Memaryu It hasn't even release and you're calling it a bad game? You guys are more pathetic than i thought. Why? Cause you're acting like little kids whining and moaning about something that's out of your control. You don't want this game? Then don't buy it! It's that simple talk with your wallet.

@TwilightAngel

@Kaze_Memaryu said it was a bad METROID game, not a bad game itself. As an objective game, it may have merit. As a metroid game, it fails

looks fun. plan on buying a new 3ds xl solely for this game.

Sorry Reggie. Your loyal fanbase isn't looking for any radical transformation. What I WOULD love is a new, epic Metroid adventure, with Samus being on her own on a lonely, deserted planet. And while you're at it, throw in a couple of decent follow-ups to Wave Race, F-Zero, 1080, Excite Truck and Battalion Wars. Now THAT is what would make a lot of people happy. Maybe not all of them, but it'll definitely cause less outrage than Federation Force...
And I fully agree with people calling BS on the Wind Waker comparison. That is nowhere NEAR the same thing...

@khaosklub Give it a chance maybe it can be a GOOD Metroid game maybe it can be great who knows? And i still stand by what i said. You don't want this? Then don't buy it talk with your wallet.

You know it's bad when the higher-ups admit there has been a negative reaction.

Also, so Reggie says people who tried the game has been happy with it, huh? Good, then release a demo on the eShop. Jee-yee-zus.

@BinaryFragger
Funnily enough, Reggie's speech at the beginning of the E3 of 2004 included the line "there is no BS-ing that (referring to teens and early twentysomethings) audience". Make of that what you will!

@AlexSora89 Yeah they would rather have you pre-order the game so that you can get the Gamestop exclusive "Bikini Samus" skin for your character than possibly ever offering up a demo again. (unless you want to ackwardly stand in a Gamestop or Best Buy if your local demo kiosk is lucky enough to not be broken)

The thing I have most enjoyed about the Nindies @ home bundle is that I have been able to go back and try some of the previews a second, third, or fourth time. I can do so because I am not terrified of having to stop and losing a precious limited play chance. In some cases, a few games have won me over on the second or third try as I got more comfortable with it.

@khaosklub
first off, Prime 3 was not the last metroid game released ... this honor goes to other M which wasn't as bad as everybody makes it seem to be.
secondly, I can understand why Nintendo is so cautiouse when it comes to Metroid .... there was just one metroid game that sold over 2 million copys ... the first prime game .... the other two didn't even manage to move that much on the Wii, a console with more than 100million units sold ...
Just for the record, Galaxy sold over 11 million copys (I know it's a bigger IP, but the complaining about spin offs is nearly non existent)

So for Nintendo to try something new with the Metroid franchise to expand on the Lore and to expand the franchises reach on the market seems to me like a brilliant move, especially because federation force is a spin off title, that (let's be honest) will most likely be a really good game.

@Darknyht
The Nindies @ home had unlimited uses?
And I... missed... the chance to download them...

Why should we trust him when he's been doing and saying nothing but trash?

@Artwark Well... personally, I didn't think it was a fun game at all.

My point is, people have every right to be upset and disappointed about this game. Because, of course, people will have differing opinions about even a product that was already released (see our apparently opposite opinions of those specifics DK games). When it's released, it could be good, it could be bad, but until then all we can do is discuss our opinions about what was shown.

All Nintendo had to do was announce that a new full Metroid game is coming before announcing Metroid FF and all this negativity could have been avoided. Especially since it's been 5 years since Metroid Other M. The same can be said for the Animal Crossing Festival game.

I'm not going to trust Reggie. There's too many games I want to play and so little time, so I'll instead prioritise them by judging on what I've seen of the game. So far, nothing I've seen of Federation Force makes me want to go and buy the game, and Blast Ball doesn't look that great.

However, I know little about the main gameplay mode for this game yet, since they've been too focused on showing Blast Ball. If they released more information, then I might change my mind.

I don't care about online co-op soccer; I care about Metroid. Do not want and no amount of sugarcoating and chiding is going to make me buy this. Also, I am not being "entitled", "bratty", "spoiled", or whatever in my decision not to buy it either. I am a huge fan of the Metroid series and this is NOT a game for me.

Seriously, who at Nintendo thought it would be a good idea to show a vague, 1-minute trailer of this game? It MUST have crossed their minds that it was not going to be received well. I don't care about the whole debate on whether or not it will be a good game, I'm just baffled that they presented it in the worst way possible. And then they say "trust us". Umm... Okay?

@hcfwesker The fanbase never lasts, take it from me one of my favourite Nintendo series is Fire Emblem and across the years after it released in the west until Awakening the style of game remained extremely similar and constant.

Guess what else remained constant? The decline in sales. Hidden by the boost of sales due to release in the west in Japan the series was sliding down since SNES and down and after releasing in the west each entry sold less and less in the west as well despite how well the Wii and DS sold.

When you have an audience established it's inevitable that they'll eventually tire of the series and move on, keep making games like that and you'll eventually be making games aimed at a shrinking group people who don't want to play it anymore.

What Metroid needs is more new fans who'll approach the series for different reasons or to get other Nintendo fans to want to try it. I mean is it any surprise the franchise doesn't get much focus from Nintendo when they'll crucify a spin-off because they don't like the look of it? What value does Metroid have to Nintendo when it's probably the biggest disparity between cost to make and popularity of any Nintendo series and with a segment of the fanbase will vocally hate on entries they dislike the concept of before they've even played it?

@Dr_Lugae I don't think that counts as a good example. Much as I've enjoyed most of the games in the Fire Emblem series, it's hardly a mainstream (or big) series in comparison to Nintendo's bigger IP's.
It is VERY clear that Metroid fans want a real Metroid game, no spin-off Chibi game, enjoyable as it might be in its own right...

FF looks quite fun but maybe people are so bitter because the Wii U will disappear without that HD Metroid they've been requesting since the console was first announced.

I'd be happy with Super Metroid 3D on my lil handheld but I've given up "putting it out there" and the Australian shop would probably never get it anyway (I'm looking at you, Outrun 3D, you!)

This game looks fun, but the graphics look pixelated and crappy.

This game needs a new art direction, one that looks more inline with a real metroid game.

The staggering amount of selfishness behind a certain range of the reaction to this game is quite disheartening. There's sometimes just no keeping a balance on the Internet.

@DreamOn

It's no surprise coming from the group who villified Sakamoto for producing Metroid: Other M. I wonder if Tanabe and Next Level Games are going to get a similar response and the fanbase pressures more and more Nintendo employees and developers actually interested in producing new entries in the series not to bother with Metroid again.

Though I don't mind, David Wise was rumoured to be working on a Nintendo title which suggests Retro is working on a Donkey Kong game(maybe Diddy Kong Racing), I enjoy Next Level Games other Spin-offs and the Wii Punchout and Sakamoto can make Wario Ware, Rhythm Heaven and Tomodachi Life games. Better they're working on games that the player base actually enjoy and appreciate despite being spin-offs than making a game for the most spiteful section of the Nintendo fanbase.

@DreamOn Selfishness! Really! Nintendo isn't doing use any favors. If they were giving the game as a free eshop and people were still upset than sure it would be selfish. But the fact that they are going to charge us $40 for a spin-off of a game that we have been wait years for doesn't make us selfish.

Differences about the game aside, how can someone even say it's a bad game? It hasn't been released yet. It's not bad as a game, and it's not bad as a Metroid game. Even so, I can't even say it's good as a game or Metroid game at all. I realize most of us really dislike the game, but please calm down and wait for the game to be finished, at least. Who's to say it won't have plenty of puzzles, collectibles, and whatnot that Metroid games usually have?

Reggie "Sugarcoat" Fils-Aime

@Mikes, you have a good point. It could make a good FPS for the 3DS. But it doesn't need to be called Metroid. "SUPER FUN,SHOOT AT THINGS 3D!" is what I've been calling it.

@Josaku
but prime 3 was the last prime game to be released, metroid prime being a 1st person metroid themed shooter.

it's not whether or not other M was bad, it's that it, like federation force wasn't what prime fans wanted, nor metroidvania fans. it's a spin off.

And yes, it doesn't produce as much revenue. the better solution is to scale down the budget, not reinvent the wheel. They could easily make a low budget classic metroidvania game to appease classic metroid fans. federation force could easily be a new IP with low budget and prime mechanics. but they had to say "this is the next metroid PRIME game".

I suppose it would make more sense to say, it's been 8 years since the last metroid FPS. less time since the last metroid 3rd person adventure, and 10 years since the last 2D platformer. people want a new FPS with samus as the star and primes mechanics. people want a new 2D platformer with samus as the star with classic metroid mechanics.

Just like how starfox fans don't want another star fox game, they want a freakin' game about flying around in planes shooting things the same way as star fox [64]. Nintendo fails to understand that what people love about them, is playing their games, not particularly following their characters. While many care a lot about the characters, most of Nintendo's characters and plots are rather 2-dimensional anyway.

@Yorumi
"why should people have to spend $40"

Mikes didn't say that and guess what? They don't have. We'll see impressions of the full product when the game is released, not like you have to pre-order it or put down any money at all.

"a spinoff that is largely an insult to a fanbase"

Maybe you shouldn't take a spin-off which some guy who worked on the series wanted to produce for years now as some kind of personal attack. I recall he also did Tingles Rosey Rupeeland and that was very different, not an insult to Legend of Zelda players, he just likes doing different things with the series to the main entries.

Seeing all these comments everywhere about this game... it's like... it's like they owe us something. Like a game has to be a certain way, or else! I mean, people are basically at the brink of pointing a gun at the developers nowadays. Some probably would if that was allowed lol So much selfishness and sense of entitlement, tsk tsk. Just step back and chill for a second, guys.

DrinkBox Studios gave Metroid fans what they wanted. Thank goodness for Guacamelee!

@Goginho some people need to learn the definition of "selfishness"

@Dr_Lugae

There's a huge difference between fire emblem and metroid. of games that stay the same, classic metroid has 3 games, one remake. of the FPS metroids, 4 games. 3rd person adventure that came from a modified rail shooter, 1.

meanwhile, fire emblem, a game that is relatively the same every game, has about 5 games per decade, not counting remakes! it's not that people get tired of the same old after a while, it's that you oversaturate the market with games that can be difficult, until recently haven't been all too accessible, and take a larger time investment than most games.

That, and competition has been rising for fire emblem. you have a plethora of tactical strategy games to compete with.

street fighter really hasn't changed since 2 for super nintendo, and it went under for a while at street fighter 3, because the market was oversaturated with both fighting games, and various street fighter games as well. Now they brought it back since there are significantly fewer 2D fighting games, and it does incredibly. street fighter 4 was even more street fighter 2 than street fighter 2 was!

I don't think the audience for metroid games have gotten tired after 4 games.

@bubby444 There are users that cannot accept that anyone has anything but seething hate for this game, but that's not the case. There are users who declare that no one wants to play the game, but that's not a fact. There have been impressions to the E3 demo that were positive but certain users would call those positives misguided because they personally did not like what they saw. The point is, a certain range of users are attempting to speak for others and stifle any opinion that isn't their own. They would even wish to block the developers from getting the game to the people that would like to play it. The "Likes" on the YouTube video don't matter, considered not valid.

Going to those extents with a reaction is just not reasonable, and because they aren't considerate of anyone else's feelings, they are selfish.

@Goginho
well, pardon the consumer for wanting a specific product. shame on them, and not wanting what is presented. we should all just eat meat and hope for pudding.

@bezerker99
yeah, classic troid fans. poor prime fans though. I don't think there's a game like that out there for them.

@DreamOn, so basically we are being selfish because we aren't respecting the opinion of the people who do like game...Right... That's still not being selfish.

@khaosklub Prime is much closer in terms of gameplay to the 2D games than 3D World is to 64. The lack of platforming isn't altogether a huge difference as platforming isn't really a big part of Metroid in the first place, and in general just differs based on how many dimensions each one has. Whereas 64 vs. 3D World are almost completely different games despite being in 3D, which have different level designs (3D World is linear, 64 is open ended), different means of progression (64 is entirely based on stars, 3D World is more based on completing levels). Really 3D World has more in common with NSMB than 64 (really, 64 fans are in the same boat as Prime fans in that Nintendo stopped making those kinds of games and no one else has. But at least for that group there's relief in sight in the form of Yooka-Laylee).

@Dr_Lugae Reinventing a series to expand its audience rarely if ever works, usually when they do that what ends up happening is that they end up turning away existing fans and the series ends up digging itself deeper and deeper into a hole.

@Goginho Well, yes and no. They're technically not obligated to show us anything, but if they want the games to sell then they have to listen to what customers want.

@bubby444
but it is being selfish. the better argument is why shouldn't we? for to not be selfish, we must be selfless, which thus means self sacrifice. why should we accept regardless of what we want?

video games are a luxury, so it's a want, so it's all about what we want.

they are a producer, and they have the right to produce however they want. we also reserve the right to not like any of what they produce. If they want our support (our money) and continued support.

The fanboys of course would want us to submit and accept whatever we are given, because if not, then their already financially declining provider of Mario and Zelda may be closer to segablivion.

While the people are crying, I'll be enjoying myself by playing Federation Force

@Bolt_Strike
except all the mechanics from 64 are in 3d world. every move mario had in 64 is essentially the same. evolution is not unilateral, it is a change.

Stars served the same purpose in 64 as both the coins and flagpoles in 3D world. looking at what stars were objectively. they provided something to search for in levels, opened access to stages later, and they also provided the end marker of a level. in galaxy, they made stars simply the end marker of a level, with green stars being a hidden collectable. Star bits was a collectible in order to proceed with the game as well. in 3D world, the collectibles to search for and used to access levels is the star coin, and flag poles came back as traditional stage ends.

They also added a time limit since you didn't have to repeat levels 5 or 6 times to get all the collectibles to add a challenge element and as a nod to the old series.

levels became linear in super mario galaxy, where you picked a mission and followed a linear path. it was the progression of the series. while 64 was great, a lot of people probably didn't enjoy replaying the same segments over and over again. probably didn't test well with galaxy.

so the design for the 3D mario games evolved and were influenced by the 2D games. the 2D games essentially stayed the same with collectibles borrowed from the 3D games in the form of star coins and a few added mechanics also influenced by the 3D games. like the triple jump, the ground pound, and wall jumping. while they are influencing each other, they are very distinct games.

@Bolt_Strike
platforming not being integral to metroid? which game did you play? I'm pretty sure all I did for most of every metroid game was jump on platforms. I think I jumped more than I shot things! it's about exploration, and most of the exploration challenges revolve around platforming puzzles and hidden passages. most rooms are a series of platforms with some challenges between them. you get some flat rooms, but mostly tall vertical rooms filled with platforms and platforming challenges.

This Is my final comment regarding this topic. I'm not buying it. I think it's a quick cash grab by Nintendo and that it shouldn't bare the Metroid name. This game aside, Nintendo as a whole is in trouble. They are losing the confidence of the mass gaming community and their image is "oh, they make baby games" Unless they come out swinging next year with the NX the future of Nintendo is questionable. I will not buy the NX at launch like I did with the Wii U and if the NX is filled with gimmicks I will not buy it at all.

My main problem with Federation Force is the graphics. I was under the impression that the 3ds had about the same graphical power as the Gamecube, even if the terrible resolution made it look a lot worse. Federation Force looks like a N64 game.

@bubby444 My issue in not with your comments here. I also don't like the game and have no feeling to buy it at the moment. I'm in that camp. I just see some that are unreasonable about what this game "is allowed to do"

@khaosklub That's not evolution, that's convergence. They haven't really moved the series forward at all, they're just pushing 2D and 3D closer together. And no, they're not distinct. The mechanics are 99% similar, and even the 1% difference in mechanics never shows up in the design. Both styles are drawing from the same exact skills as the other.

As for Metroid, platforming really isn't that important and any importance it does have ties into the larger focus on exploration. You're just using it to explore rooms, there's not a whole lot of emphasis on jumping around to navigate obstacles. And Prime has platforming anyway, just not as much. So that's hardly a major difference between the two styles.

@bubby444 Well, then I suggest you get to it
Oh, and if you're implying that I'm one of those "people who do like the game", then you are mistaken.

@khaosklub Dude, these are video games we are talking about. This is a luxury. I still stand by my point when I say that they don't owe us anything. And no, contrary to how it seems, this isn't about fanboyingly defending Nintendo, but more or less about reason.
So, they created something and provided us with a certain means of entertainment. Have we become so blindingly obsessed and possessed by self-entitlement that we expect them (the devs...Nintendo... w/e) to keep on delivering exactly what we want and how we want it? ...that we have the nerve to put up a petition aiming to get the game cancelled? Now, I'm not saying you're one of those that signed the petition, that doesn't even concern me, but the point is that we need to relax I know it's hard being a long-time fan of a musician or any sort of artist and see them suddenly change styles and turn into something we could never imagine, for example. Admittedly, I may personally be somewhat upset if they took away all the integral Zelda elements - like dungeons and puzzles - in a future Zelda game, a beloved franchise of mine, and make it into something completely unZelda-like (key word: completely), but in no way would I blow things out of proportion and react so uber displeased as is the case with this game.
All I can say to people not liking the game is... don't buy it simple as that. Everyone has a right to be uspet and express their displeasure to a certain degree, of course, but don't let it anger you so that it becomes unhealthy. I'm sure we'll get our traditional Metroid game in the near future

@Bolt_Strike Yeah, you may have a point. Yet, I have this funny strange feeling that this game - to everyone's surprise - will sell fairly decently. I believe that all this rage across the internet is the vocal minority, or as I call them, the "aggressive" minority. I bet there are a ton of people who are looking forward to this game. It's most likely going to even catch the eye of consumers who haven't even watched e3 or follow any gaming trends / news, for example. This game will do fine imo.. And I do believe that you have to listen to the customers, but selectively. Not everyone is going to give reasonable suggestions on future games, or provide well-thought arguments for them. And in the end, it is impossible to please everybody. Even the best of the best and the most critically acclaimed titles have at least a handful of major haters. Just that in this case, Nintendo may have displeased the lot... like a huge chunk of that vocal minortiy lol The announcement for this game should have perhaps been saved for a Direct. Oh well. We'll have to wait and see though. Some want change, some want the same thing. It was much simpler back in the day, creating something from zero, before even having established a franchise, I imagine. No boundaries, no set rules and consumer guidelines.
Devs today have to deal with a lot and I'm under the impression that their artistic freedom is very limited compared to how it was before their mascots made the breakthroughs. I'm the guy who encourages artistic freedom and trusts in the developers. Sure, they may have made some questionable decisions at times, but I never found myself disappointed tbh.. Maybe I'm just easily pleased, I dunno.

I'm really looking forward to the next prime game. Federation force is not the next prime game.

This game is low budget spin off milk that is completely depending on the Metriod Prime name to sell. It'll be lucky enough to sell 250K, even luckier to get a sequel and regardless of the sugary coated 'transformation' talk, it's quite doubtful that much of this title's gameplay will make it over to a future main Metroid title. Anyone trying to prop it up as some kind of "evolution" by making Wind Waker or Awakening comparisons is deluding themselves. Reggie's just doing his job: spinning and BSing.

@Bolt_Strike
convergence can be evolution. evolution is not unilateral any change is evolution.

mechanics are very different in the 2D games and 3D games. while everything is starting to LOOK the same, underneath the superficial exterior, they are very different games. They are also greatly different design wise.

while they all involve jumping, jumping on enemies, running and attacking with essentially the same power ups, and they are very similar in implementation,they are still very different mechanics. the 2D vs 3D element makes it so. throwing a fireball in 3D space works differently than in 2D space. the fireballs in 3D bounce around, the fireballs in 2D hit a wall and vanish. the way players can use it, and the timing between fireballs, and how long they last are completely different. wall jumping is in both, but are typically used by players completely differently in 3D and 2D. the perspective makes the game play completely differently.

arguing that 99% of the mechanics are the same is like lumping entire genres as being essentially the same mechanics. like mega man being 99% similar to metroid, sonic being 99% similar to super mario bros. street fighter being 99% similar to tekken. One solitary mechanic can make 2 games worlds apart.

metroid is about exploration, both classic and prime. that's the focus, and so how this exploration is done, is pretty much the defining feature of the game. metroid's exploration is done primarily through platforming. prime is done through scanning, combat and going through doors.

you're essentially saying that platforming isn't important to platformers. you are saying that FPS's are comparable to 2D platformer shooters! it's just a mad statement in and of itself... but still a debatable topic really that can be explored.

@shaneoh

Your comment is great, because it's true I don't understand why there is even a debate about this to begin with. Nintendo owns Metroid and can do whatever they want with it. If they want to make a turd of a game that carries the Metroid name then so be it.

That is not to say that Federation Force is a turd. How could we know that at this point? Not one of us has played it. What I don't understand is how people can express such negativity towards Nintendo and still call themselves a fan.

I've been with Nintendo since the NES. I love Nintendo. Are they perfect? No. Have they disappointed me before? Yes. Still, I think they lead the industry in more ways than just one. How do you think Mario has survived for all these years? Innovation, my friends.

If you don't think you'll enjoy Federation Force then just don't buy it when it comes out. Wait for the next Metroid Prime game if that's what you want to do. Fact is, Nintendo owes us nothing.

@Goginho
yes, a luxury good. they don't owe us anything, but in tern, we owe them nothing as well. they created a good, we bought it. we want more of that good and they try to sell us something else. we are allowed to be insulted by what they offer us.

Also, if we look at other M, which was originally going to be a rail shooter. I believed it was changed due to fan outcry? why not complain and push for what we want? we certainly won't get it by accepting fate and sitting quiet.

there is nothing wrong with having expectations, nor holding nintendo to those expectations. nintendo doesn't have to care about those expectations, but they can expect to hear angry voices when they make choices that directly challenges those expectations.

I mean, why make a metroid game? to make money? why not put those resources towards a Zelda game? it'd very likely sell more. to provide variety? why not a new IP? if you're slapping the metroid name onto something, it is implied that it is made for the fans of metroid, otherwise it doesn't make too much sense. they choose to make a metroid game, which is a game for fans of metroid, or at least to coax metroid fans to buy the game, which is pretty scummy to me anyway, but anyway, but they make it so that it is directly contrary to the desires and expectations of that game?

@khaosklub You're looking at things in two opposite extremes between control and genre, I'm looking at the middle ground here which is function. Sure, a fireball moves differently in 2D vs. 3D, but who cares? Either way, you shoot out a fire ball and it burns things, so it's the same gameplay mechanic.

With that in mind, NSMB and 3D World are very similar because you're performing the same actions in each gameplay style, the difference in perspective doesn't change that. As for 2D Metroid vs. Prime, again the actions you perform are mainly the same between the two and differ mainly in terms how you move around in 2D vs. 3D. Beyond that, there's really no difference, they all have some degree of platforming, combat, and exploration involved, and Prime's scanning doesn't come into play that often (it's mainly an optional feature).

And no, when people say something has evolved that usually implies progression of some sort, not convergence.

@Bolt_Strike
Evolution simply means change, for better, for worse, or neither, but change.

No, I'm looking at the mechanics in terms of gameplay. Many games feature exploration, powerups and shooting, but they are dramatically different from metroid.

Playing in 3D vs 2D is more than just moving around. All interactions between all elements of the game are completely different. You can run past a goomba! In one, you incur damage because past is the same as through. The entire experience is different. Programming is completely different. Good for for design is different, the design documents are dramatically different. The physics are different. Even in aspects that are the same, the physics are different. The strategies available to the player are different, the challenges are fundamentally different. The way players assess their options are different. There is nothing comparable between the two, just the superficial shell. The games appear very similar to an audience, but they are drastically fifferent to the player. This is the game experience as experienced soley through the mechanics. This game experience isvwhat defines the game.

To deny this is to define games based on how they look, in which case, wind waker was a very different zelda game, and by the narrative, in which most games are of the same genre.

To suggest that there is essentially no difference between 2D and 3D is to suggest perspective is superfluous in terms of mechanics, and that any game in either perspective is the same game. It's like saying zelda and zelda 2 played the same in dungeons.

@hcfwesker nail on the head.

@Scarkaiser
Mario? Innovative? I think he survived because his games are fun. Innovation doesn't mean fun, and fun is not bound to innovation.

@QuixoticRocket Believe me when I say Reach is one of my all time favorite games. But unlike Federation Force, it actually retained elements that made previous main entries brilliant and built on them. Federation Force is a harmless spin-off, yeah, but it's undoing all the classic Metroid staples.

@potatomage7
The game is still in development. The graphics are also still being worked on.

People that say that fans should chill out need to stop. The game was shown at E3, developers and companies show new things to receive first impressions. Negative impressions are just as valid as positive ones. People that get hype over a game don't get any kind of flack, but why do people get upset when people have horrendous first impressions towards something, especially when it's with good reason?

MP:FF looks terrible on its own, it's only insult to injury that they slap the Metroid name to this random garbage and then have the nerves of hoping that fans that have been waiting a good while for a real Metroid game will just suck it up and take this all the same. This isn't Metroid, we don't like it, and it's just as valid as feeling positively towards something based on first impressions.

Fans have been blowing things out of proportion with stuff such as the petition, yes, but the overall dislike for the game is pretty justified if you ask me. I would personally think it looked awful even if it wasn't "Metroid". Hell, I personally didn't like anything from this generic Direct they had for E3 other than Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam. It's just a bunch of lackluster titles no one asks for, with some salvageable ones (Star Fox, Yoshi, M&L, etc.) in the mix.

Next Level games are super talented, based on much of their previous work. I'm willing to believe that this will be a really good game. I was just disappointed to essentially receive confirmation that we won't receive a mainline entry in the metroid franchise on Wii u. It seems a real missed opportunity, I think you could say that about the Wii u, in general, despite the number of top quality titles already out and coming out. I wanted an awesome cricket game with asynchronous multiplayer, I wanted an LA noir style game with the game pad as your notebook. I could go on; a great many missed opportunities. Still, we have had so many great games this generation on both Wii u and 3ds.

Edit: RTS games could've been great on Wii U.

@khaosklub Evolution:

noun
1. any process of formation or growth; development
2. a product of such development; something evolved
3. change in the gene pool of a population from generation to generation by such processes as mutation, natural selection, and genetic drift.
4. a process of gradual, peaceful, progressive change or development, as in social or economic structure or institutions.

So no, it doesn't just mean change, it implies progression.

None of those things you listed are mechanics, and the player doesn't really asses those things differently. The player usually thinks in terms of actions, not physics, they're not going to think about the fact that they can run around Goombas that sort of thing is second nature. They're going to think more about what kinds of abilities they have, what tasks they have to accomplish, and things of that nature.

I predict better sales than Hunters. Better sales than Hunters, just to repeat.

TRUST YOU?! TRUST YOU!!! UH UH! HELL NO!

Lol.

To me this just seems like a fanboy overreaction. Tbh I've only played the first NES Metroid(and are planning to buy the prime trioligy thing in the eshop), but does it really deserve all this hate? I mean weve barely seen any gameplay besides blast ball, and already petitions,70K dislikes,etc? You should atleast give it a chance.

@Bolt_Strike
Any process of formation or growth... that's not progression, which implies a more advanced state, it's change. For example, we humans have grown taller over generations. For men, this is advantageous, but for women, it is typically not, since men tend to prefer shorter eomen an women tend to prefer tsller men. That is literal growth, while this defimition specifies any process of growth, which could mean development, which just means something has changed. Formation is essentially the same thing.

Second one is just something that changed.

The third one literally says that it's a change in genes.

Fourth one states progression, but specifies social or economic structures, which may or may not include video games.

Action, move along x axis, move along y axis. More naturally understood as move forward or back, or to the right or left, and jumping/falling. Those are actions associated with 2D platformers.

Move along x, y and z axis. Those are actions. Stand in this position and throw fireball in that direction. Very different actions and much more difficult to do in 3D. Even turning is a mechanic that doesn't exist in 2D. You can reverse direction in 2D, but youncan't run in circles, except in sonic, but that's different anyway.

Second nature is still using the mechanics, just because you put less thought into it doesn't make it less of a mechanic. And just because you take simple mechanics like walking for granted, doesn't make it less of a mechanic. When programming it, it is definitely thought of as a mechanic, especially how the environment effects speed, how turning is done, switching direction, speed, start up time, acceleration. All those can created a drastically different walking mechanic.

Imagine if it had resident evil's tank control mechanics. As you said, 99% of mechanics are the same. You have the same abilities, just that the way z movement is handled is different, everything else is the same as 2D, infact, moreso, since you are essentially stuck in a 2D plane, rotating the plane you are in.

Pretty much what @sWiTcHeRoO and @LoveSugoi said.

@OneBagTravel Wait. The Zelda CD-I titles gave the world so many Youtube Poops... Could this be the coming of Metroid CD-I!?

@khaosklub You're interpreting those definitions way too broadly, the word "change" doesn't accurately describe everything. This is why synonyms exist.

And yes, it does make it less of a mechanic. Nearly every video game has movement of some kind, it's not a defining aspect of a video game. Yeah, there's a lot of things the programmer needs to account for that the player won't notice, big shocker. That doesn't make it defining either.

@Bolt_Strike
And you're making assumptions. Definition 3 is distinctly refering to change in genetic formula over generations. Definition 4 distinctly refers to progression in certain context.

The first, and by definition, second ones DO NOT imply progression, though formaton or growth is always a change, though not necessarily progression, though these changes themselves may progress. E.g. cancer, it progresses, but the afflicted is not experiencing a progressive evolution.

Yes, and movement is a defining mechanic as opposed to those that do not. Throwing fireballs and burning things are not a mechanic, they are several mechanics. Power up secondary ability mechanics, projectile weapon mechanics, fire mechanics.

And movement is different between games. Mario has a run button, simon belmont walks, sonic constantly accellerates. The jump mechanics between the 3 super mario bros games are very different.

You can make a mario game without movement mechanics, just make it a stationary runner, you jump, collect power ups and reach a flagpole. Still a mario game? Take away jumping. Make mario automatically proceed through levels, and you can shoot fireballs, or swing the tail. Still a mario game? Seems to me that the jump and running are what define the game.

Give mario the castlevania jump mechanics, is that still the same game? Make him always running like mega man.

And it's not the player not taking notice, just taking for granted.

What would you say are the defining mechanics of a mario game?

@Goginho Or, you know, expressing a negative opinion. You can chide that for a lot of things, but selfish and entitled is a bit much. If we all agreed and were being positive no matter what, there'd be no point to a comments section.

@Vineleaf Well said.

I want to love this game. It has a lot that I want in a portable 'fps', especially in regards to local multiplayer. Only thing I'm missing is very few of my friends have 3DS', and even fewer have the same games I do to play multiplayer. So far, I've only done a couple races in Mario Kart 7 and one or two matches in Smash Bros.

I didn't endlessly watch the Treehouse presentation at E3, so I don't know anything relating to Single Player, but hopefully it's meaty enough to warrant the price tag.

Has anyone realized yet that this game is a SPINOFF? It feels like alot of people complaining are overlooking that fact. It may not be the Metroid you wanted, but still could be a fun game, and it also means they have Metroid on the mind. Maybe a new main game isn't here now, but be patient, it's coming.

@bubby444 Well, it does take place in the Metroid universe, likely with Metroid elements, so it would be odd to not put the spin-off under the Metroid title. Even if the game was just called Federation Force, people would still be upset.
@Yorumi You don't have to spend any money. Vote with your wallet! Although, if the game doesn't sell well enough, they'll just assume no one cares about Metroid and won't try making another game.
I kid, I kid (although that'd be pretty horrible). We have reviews, game-plays, and whatnot, so there's no need to spend your money willy-nilly. You don't need to search for a reason to like the game.
How is the game insulting to the fan-base, really? Should it stay true to its name, it should live up to general Metroid expectations. It's different than what we're used to, definitely. However, if you bring up the point about working on a spin-off in the stead of dedicating resources to a new main game, then I understand that.
I find that statement a bit odd, too. If you're confident in how the team's working on the game, there's no need to ask for our trust — just make a good game, show it off, etc.
Of course, it could just be a simple statement of reassurance and I'm thinking too much.

@khaosklub Growth in the context of video games is progression though. For a game to grow it needs to flesh itself out.

And Mario really doesn't have a lot that defines him (coins, powerups, and blocks I guess?), that's the thing. Which is a blessing in the sense that it allows him to fit a large range of genres and gameplay styles as we've seen in the sheer number of spinoffs, but it's also a curse in that when they don't add something else on it ends up feeling generic. Case in point, the NSMB series, whose games are commonly criticized as feeling too similar from game to game.

@Bolt_Strike
no, growth means something was added to it, whether good or not, not progression. fleshing it self out has nothing to do with growth. if you add an extra room to a stage, it has grown. if the next game has less features, it has grown. it has grown sleeker, lost some muscle or fat, depending on whether the features were better or weighing it down.

okay, to vague a question, what defines super mario bros as a game, the first one for NES?

Also, any character can be in any kind of spinoff, we could have a Dr. Captain falcon game easily, a fire emblem party, or star fox golf. it's not something about a character not having definitive traits that makes him fit in a large range of genres.

Characters have nothing to do with genre's they're in. story and gameplay are mutually exclusive elements. you can put mario as the hero of legend of zelda, and make everything mario themed, just change the sword into something less lethal, like maybe a mallet or plunger, and you got the same game with a different skin.

I'm asking about the game, not the character. abstractly, without talking about mario himself, what defines the NES game, super mario bros?

@xPH03N1Xx86 Like the dragon's in Game of Thrones?

@xPH03N1Xx86 It's so annoying when people pull the spin-off card. What does it matter if it's a spin-off? It's not what people wanted, and to top it off it seldom gives good first impressions for many reasons. Main game, spin-off, crossover or whatever, it's not good. No one asked for it, it's not what anyone has been waiting for, hence the disappointment.

@khaosklub Again, you're just being overly broad. Most people do not expect games simply to grow by adding new levels, again NSMB does that all of the time and it's still considered a rehash. They expect gameplay mechanics to be added, that is how games evolve.

And I wasn't talking about Mario the character, I meant the game. Mario gameplay can be adapted to different genres because it's not defined by anything genre specific (again, things like blocks, coins, and powerups).

And most of those examples really wouldn't work as spinoffs anyway because they have nothing to do with the main games. Technically you could make those games, but you'd literally be slapping the label on a completely different game and the fans would end up raging just as much as they are now.

@Bolt_Strike
do you see the irony? you claim that I am being overly broad about "growth" and "evolution", yet I'm being overly specific about what a game's mechanics are.

meanwhile, you're trying to be overly specific about what "growth" entails, while being very broad about what makes a games mechanics.

to you, pacman's mechanics consist of eating pellets, running from ghosts, eating power pellets and chasing after them.

to me, it's mechanics consist of a maze like arena, where you have 4 choices at any time, change direction in 3 ways parallel or perpendicular to the way in which you are moving, or continue the way you're going. walls are solid and you may not pass though them. collisions with walls stop your motion until you make another choice. pellets are "eaten" by passing over them. stages are completed once all pellets have been consumed. passages out of the maze lead back in on the opposite side. collisions with ghosts characters result in a loss of life, consuming power pellets allows you to safely pass through ghosts once per ghost within a time limit, which also resets their location. ghost [x] will follow pattern [x]. once all lives are lost, the game is over. action [y] awards [y] points. at the end of the game, the top scores achieved upon the game ending is stored and displayed.

changing any of those alters the game, some in little ways, some in big ways.

mechanics are how every object in a game interacts with other objects if they do at all.

meanwhile, growth is a vague and broad term. I can grow in size, I can grow in character, I can grow new cells and be essentially the same. financial growth is progression, but people can grow out of a hobby, in which they have no progress, but simply removed a part of their lives. You want me to be specific about growth, but it's not a specific term. it is also likened to a formation, and formation doesn't mean progression either. if a circle becomes a square, it has undergone a "process of formation" where is now a different shape, but isn't progressing towards anything.

I mean, the definition says ANY process, not a specific one. it is a broad definition by definition. it's like discrete mathematics, "there exists an" vs "for all" x.

and how would they not work as spinoffs? fire emblem party would just be fantasy themed party games, involving sword play or archery and such. it would work. star fox golf makes perfect sense. why couldn't they play golf? they beat andross, got paid, and went to a galactic country club or something. it could even introduce interesting space mechanics.

and Dr. Captain Falcon... he raced and beat god, I think he can be a doctor.

@pikminfan22
would the game be any worse off for those who want to try it without the metroid prime name attached to it?

Forget Wind Waker... Remember LoZ Phillips CDi? That's what this MP: FF is shaping up to look like...
and another thing... Thank God Nintendo did Sm4sh right! They didn't try to change the core mechanics to make it into something it's not...They expounded on what makes the game great. They should really remove the "Metroid" logo and call it.....I dunno... "Space Blasters: Federation Force"

This reminds me of when I was a kid and used to go to Toys R Us and just wanted to find an original TMNT Michelangelo...But all they had was unseen cash grabs like "Tropical Shirt/ Straw Hat Michelangelo" and "Cybernetic Michelangelo" with the Scouter from DBZ... These versions were never on the show...so when I played with them, the little hibiscus flowers on his Hawaiian shirt reminded me that this is not TMNT...this was blaspheme...

After a lot of comments and whoever sees mine this is why I'm chiming in:
"Metroid Other M was not a bad game" this is completely subjective. The game is not "good" or "bad" it's you liked it, a VERY large number of people didn't.
Federation Force doesn't appeal to me for these reasons: The presence of Federation Force means a lot of us didn't get what we wanted. Say what you want about the merits behind that. We now have the worry not only that the next game isn't coming out for a bit but whether or not that will be a VERY long bit. The other reason we don't like Federation Force is because the following elements of the series are gone: Isolation, Spectacular Visuals, Narrative gameplay, upgrade tree (gameplay shows that certain loadouts are available but the idea of constantly adding up your arsenal is non in this game), exploration. This is in fact a different genre in the Metroid Universe.
Examples like Halo 1 vs. Reach/ODST are not good examples. This is the difference between four swords and the main stay zelda games. Same universe totally different style. Four Swords had an uproar and sold poorly in comparison.

By the sheer look of this game it doesn't appeal to me and don't give me a ration of crap about "wel you haven't even tried it". There are DOZENS of games I want to get, I"m not going to buy every one and determine if I like it. The ones that best catch my eye are those I buy. Federation is low on that list.

Like I said in the Federation Force Negative reaction talking point post - this is another in Nintendo's "Baby's First" series which just irritates me. The gap between "Push ZR to throw bean bags at bad guys!!!" and "zombie gets poked by a stick and a jacuzzi's worth of blood and organs flys on the screen" is getting wider and wider. I don't want either. I want a sensible, fun focused game that isn't pathetically easy nor filled with retarded amounts of gore and porn.

I still kinda don't get why the internet is so dang ANGRY over this game... but... the internet seems to hate everything. I've always wanted a Metroid game to show more of a complete universe, and seeing it through the visor of the same solitary person every time (who also happens to lose all of her powers at the start of every new mission) has barely done anything to that effect. I never got around to finishing Metroid Prime: Hunters, but I loved the idea that you could play as someone other than Samus, so I'm very happy to see that idea return.

I still kinda don't get why the internet is so dang ANGRY over this game... but... the internet seems to hate everything. I've always wanted a Metroid game to show more of a complete universe, and seeing it through the visor of the same solitary person every time (who also happens to lose all of her powers at the start of every new mission) has barely done anything to that effect. I never got around to finishing Metroid Prime: Hunters, but I loved the idea that you could play as someone other than Samus, so I'm very happy to see that idea return.

The franchise is called Metroid, not Samus Aran.

@Vineleaf You're right, selfish and entitled is a bit much, and yet, that's unfortunately the general reaction and stance that a lot of internet dwellers have taken toward a mere freakin' video game lol namely this one. I guess you haven't heard of the petition that requests the game to be cancelled, which is ridiculous, and a very hasty and impulsive way of going about it imo..

The thing that has always bothered me about this game is the multi-player focus. Everything that I have heard about it so far suggests that it is not designed with a single player experience in mind. That is the primary reason that I will probably not buy it.

@khaosklub Exactly, we owe them nothing as well. You're absolutely right about that, so let the wallets do the speaking. We have the right to want some more of something good, sure, but to be insulted by a product that otherwise doesn't seem to appear insulting is ridiculous. Also, we shouldn't go about and therefore start insulting the production and the developer's efforts for it, I mean... it's their job, their art, they have to earn their living with it. We can most definitely express our displeasure by leaving thoughtful comments and rational suggestions, but putting up a petition to have the game cancelled, something that cost human resources, something that people have worked hard on and are earning a living out of, is actually kinda insulting to them.
We can also not buy the game, give a bad review on it...etc. all of these things speak more words than any impulsive reaction, which can only cause more trouble in the long run, imo.. They will see the bad reception (if that ends up being the case, of course) and they will take the flaws and iron them out. Look at Twilight Princess when it came out. Wind Waker had such a bad general reception because it was "too kiddy" or it wasn't realistic and what not, and so Nintendo answered this with Twilight Princess (a complete contrast), a game which received a mixed reception. Today, Wind Waker seems generally more beloved and acclaimed than Twilight Princess. Not saying TP didn't turn out to be a great game, one which is many people's fav Zelda game, but it has a lot of criticism. People had high hopes and expectations from it (i.e. timeless visuals, vast open field with plenty to do, exhilirating horseback combat...etc.) and after maybe a couple of months or even years when they let the game sink in, Wind Waker didn't seem so bad all of a sudden. People started recognizing Wind Waker's true value and started seeing things past their initital impulses. Who knows, we might warm up to this game too one day.
So all in all, I think there's more to it than just a non-Metroid-like "Metroid" game here. I think Nintendo want to introduce the series and expand its audience by making this title as appealing to the general masses as possible (let's be honest, Metroid isn't the most attractive of games out there and it's certainly no bright, happy-go-lucky, from-kids-to-adults Super Mario), which, in the long run, could be quite beneficial for the series, as well as the fans, because then there's a chance for a higher number of consumers. This could then lead to the game that "everyone" always wanted and waited for So we'll just have to wait and see. But like I said, I wouldn't be surprised if there's more than meets the eye. Everyone has their own first impression about something, but it's the lasting impression that counts in the end, and the first one may not always be the last.
Speak with wallets and reviews. They will listen then. Petitions can only anger them. Just take a look and see how they took those petitions about remakes, such as that Majora's Mask 3D "Moonfall" petition (once again, a game that dealt with lots of criticism at first). They weren't too pleased about that either, even though it was actually a flattering situation.

@FeedingTheWheel
I don't know.. I definitely see some Prime in it.
And Prime was a big change from the real original games, but it worked and people liked it (not everyone sure).
All I'm really trying to say is let's not condemn things before they've had a chance.
You're allowed an opinion obviously, but people signing petitions to get a game cancelled because they think that it might not be to their taste (even though they don't even have all the facts about it)? That's too far.

@Goginho first off, paragraphs are our friends... don't neglect the enter key pleasse...

doesn't appear to be insulted? yet, people are insulted. people have a right to be insulted, and so many people simultaneously insulted? I'd say it's a damned insulting game to metroid fans.

also, the petition is to cancel the game? thought it was just to remove the prime name from the game.

cancelling it is an overreaction, but being upset that this is a metroid game is not. it offends the fanbase. they're making a metroid game, but not making it for the actual metroid fans? doesn't matter if it's their art, it's still arrogance on their part and an insult to the fanbase. while they are the creators, it is the fans of those creations that allow them to create again, so they do owe their fanbase to an extent, while we owe them nothing. our loyalties are to be earned. it's a very one sided relationship, but that's what they get paid for.

ooor, they can see the negative reaction from the fanbase and finally get it through their skulls that the most important thing about a series is maintaining the same mechanics, and the same narrative with more added to it. If they want to try something totally new, they should create a new IP.

Yeah, Zelda fandom makes little sense anyway. people weren't crazy about majora's mask until there was a remake, then it's game of the year. wind waker was only different from zelda games in terms of graphics and an annoying sailing mechanic. Twilight princess was a return to traditional OoT but with an annoying wolf mechanic (though I personally didn't mind it). those are okay risks and innovations. but there were plenty of other Zelda games for fans around those times and the formula wasn't strayed to far from in both story and mechanics.

yeah, make metroid appeal to casual players... because we loved that about the wii. that was the best for core fans right? appealing to casual players was only beneficial for us. no wrong can come from taking a beloved series and attempting to make it appeal to a wider audience that obviously doesn't share the same tastes as the core audience.

the core audience was upset with the wii, and it's pandering to casual gamers, and no level of wallet voting solved anything. our only saving grace was that the casual audience didn't realize that the U tacked to the end meant it was a new console!

they want to appeal to a wider audience? make a new IP for that. you want to please metroid fans? make a true to the formula metroid game. there aren't too many fans? use less of a budget! make $20 2D platformers and gauge interest.

There is nothing stopping them from reskinning federation force and making it a new IP with prime's mechanics. prime fans could enjoy it because it plays similarly to their beloved series, casual fans could get into it if it's a good game. no heavy negative backlash, except a few prime fans pining for an actual prime game. slight offense would still be had, but there would be a legit reason. there aren't enough prime fans for a full blown prime game.

@khaosklub
https://www.change.org/p/nintendo-petition-for-cancelation-of-metroid-prime-federation-force
"Help us stop this atrocity of a game from bearing the beloved Metroid franchise name and make Nintendo halt production on it."
Major overreaction. I can understand people dismissing it. I can understand people not liking it. We all have opinions and tastes. I personally will give this a chance.
But petition to cancel is internet rage and completely out of proportion.

Besides: If you really want to hit back at Nintendo then make them spend all the money developing it and then don't buy it. Far more of a lesson to them than stopping it now.

(of course if it's actually a good game then everyone else will buy it and there is no lesson, but then it's a good game!!)

@QuixoticRocket
wouldn't say major, rather perhaps the wrong reaction is the way to put it? it should really be distanced from the Prime and by extension classic metroid series. a petition to take the metroid prime name away from it would suffice I think.

coming from the mega man fanbase, I've seen many a negative reaction to many things, and heard many sides of the story and been on many different sides for different issues.

I understand what threat this game is to the fanbase. this isn't the kind of game that prime fans want to play when they think metroid, and they haven't been the kind of games classic fans want to play for 10 years, but at least their story of samus continued. The thing is, while this may be a spinoff, it may become the new norm. if hype for this game builds, and people buy 10 million copies, then this type of game may be the new face of metroid prime. samus might be sidelined, federation force guy might be the new smash rep and old fans who were starved for good metroidvanias or prime games will have to rely on kickstarter games for their fix.

It's already happened for warioland fans. wario has left his castle and hoards of money to play party games with very strange people. that is who wario is. his original costume is a reference in smash, and we probably won't get a classic wario amiibo. There's basically no hope for those fans, metroid fans don't want to be next!

it's like super mario world. Could you imagine where things would be if super mario world 2 did way better than the original? super mario 64 would probably have been more like the DS game, without the extra characters, and stars would have probably been replaced with baby mario characters or something... who knows?

that all being said, rather than halting production, it would be better to simply give it a new skin and make it a new IP. it can keep metroid prime combat mechanics, just take it in a whole new direction. less exploration based power ups, and more combat focused? shoot, you could even make this a handheld splatoon co-op shooter! with some sort of connectivity with the wiiU version? maybe transferable clothes? maybe pants?

Looks like a good game. Would have been much better if it was announce alongside a major entire in the franchise that is closer to what fans were expecting/hoping for. Just like Animal Crossing. That amiibo festival game would have been fine, if we were also getting a proper new Animal Crossing game at the same time or at least announced for the Wii U.

As for Federation Force the reveal was botched but Treehouse Live presentation made it look very fun and it was honoring the Prime Universe just fine. The game style was obviously very different, but the little reveal video gave us only the primary color identified mech suits that looked like Chibi robots and too little to go by for understanding the game. Also, very little to convince us it would even feel connected to Metroid Prime games.

Four player cooperative gaming in the Metroid universe is a fine idea and it looks like the execution will be solid from what I've seen. It would have gone over far better if we weren't also finding out there is no big 3D Metroid game coming. Either that, or if it was a console game to do the visuals more justice and actually remind us of Prime a bit. Opportunity lost.

Keep in mind, no one at Nintendo has said a 2D gameplay Metroid isn't in development right now.

@khaosklub lol quite the pretentious attitude you got there I didn't actually think you'd take the time to read all that. Respect
Hey, in the end, whatever floats your boat. You have your way of thinking and I have mine. We each have our own philosphy on how we think stuff work in this business, so let's leave it at that. Maybe you're the expert on this, I dunno. Peace

@QuixoticRocket hehe exactly. Simple as that. Don't spend money on a game you don't think you want. There's nothing more to it. It just seems that these kids are bitter about a subjectively poor e3 from Nintendo. Perhaps it wasn't a great showing of plenty upcoming titles, but I'm sure that nobody is without a backlog of games they've yet to play, so this could be the perfect opportunity to do some catching up imo.. I bet if this game was revealed at a Nintendo Direct, then there wouldn't even be half of the hate that it's gotten now. Giving the game a chance is the reasonable thing to do, so let's all just do that before we jump to any conclusions.

No such thing as bad press! I would love to play a Metroid Prime game that doesn't require motion controls. Of course I don't even own a 3DS. NLG probably don't give a poopoocadoodle about what people are saying. At least the game is making a splash rather than being ignored. Passion is a good thing and hell, I wouldn't be surprised if many people buy it to be ironic lol

No, it doesn't work like that. You can't ask someone to spend money for something that they don't want. The point of a trailer is showing some of the best features of the game, and with a market this big it's easy to get the same experience somewhere else. There's no room to explain why it's not a real Metroid game - we wont blow money on it that we can spend with Sony and Microsoft for a stable gaming relationship.