By the end of this year, barring unexpected delays, we'll have downloaded Nintendo's first dedicated game / app for smart devices. In partnership with smart device veterans DeNA, Nintendo is plotting a small number of apps that it hopes will generate significant revenue, transforming its profit margins and tempting players towards dedicated hardware in the process - that's the aim.
In a recent AGM shareholder Q & A, now officially translated, Satoru Iwata was asked about how Nintendo will tackle pricing models for its apps. Iwata-san stated that pricing "will be compared with the prices of other smart device game applications", but made clear that even in free-to-play the company will be aiming for structures that don't draw criticism for shady practices. The goal is to earn a small amount of revenue per player from many millions around the world, as opposed to extracting large sums from a small audience through dubious, addictive models.
When we look at successful smart device game applications abroad, a number of companies have been asking each of a greater number of consumers to pay less money. Companies may be able to make a very profitable business in Japan by asking a small group of consumers to pay a large amount of money (for their smart device applications), but we do not think that the same approach would be embraced by people around the world. Accordingly, even though we recognize that it is not an easy path to take, as long as Nintendo makes smart device applications, we must make them so that they appeal not just to some limited age group but to a wide age demographic just as our games thus far have been doing, and they should appeal to anyone regardless of their gaming experiences and gender, and most importantly, regardless of different cultures, nationalities and languages. We would like to make several software titles that are considered worldwide hits as soon as possible.
Regarding your question about the target audience, we are trying to make applications that appeal to a wide variety of people so that the games can receive payments widely but shallowly from each consumer. In other words, even if a consumer makes a relatively small payment, because of the large consumer base, the game can generate big revenue. This is the business model we would like to realize. I think the shareholder has just asked these questions partially because he is concerned that Nintendo might shift to the notorious business model that asks a small number of people to pay excessive amounts of money and that Nintendo's brand image might be hurt. Please understand that Nintendo will make its proposals by taking into consideration what Nintendo really should do with this new challenge.
Reiterating previous comments on upcoming apps, Iwata-san also explained that there'll be a small volume of apps over the coming year, with a focus on each developing large audiences and evolving into 'services'; this approach has often been cited as a strength of partners DeNA.
On a different note, we are not planning to release many game applications from this year (when our first smart device application will be released) to the next. The reason for this is that software for dedicated game systems is considered a "product" that tends to produce the strongest and most fresh impact on the world at the time of its release into the market but its impact can be lost gradually as time goes by. With that analogy, smart device applications have a strong aspect of "service." Even though the initial number of players tends to be small, those who have played invite others to play too, and as the total number of the players gradually increases, so does the revenue. This, however, means that the release of the game does not mark the end of its development. If the game cannot offer services that evolve even on a daily basis, it cannot entertain consumers over the long term. Accordingly, we would like to spend sufficient time on the service aspect of each title, and we would like to grow each one of our small number of game applications with the objectives that I just mentioned.
Are you encouraged by Iwata-san's words and looking forward to seeing what Nintendo brings to smart devices, or are you just fundamentally against the whole idea? Let us know.
[source nintendo.co.jp]
Comments 41
As long as the games have a reasonable F2P model. I'll be happy.
Sounds like they generally go with F2P which is too bad. Still waiting to for that one F2P game that convinces me of the model. I thought Pokemon Shuffle was it but I stopped that one because it became pay 2 win, as well.
I'm surprised they haven't seen the success of hearthstone and done something similar with Pokemon. I think that game is an excellent model of what they're saying.
Regrettably, it looks like the Wii U might be my last Nintendo purchase for a while.
I believe that once people complain about it, Nintendo will fix the issue. I'm glad that they aren't doing Micro transactions.
@hillyarb PTCGO is exactly what they are describing...
@Artwark They are doing micro-transactions.
@hillyarb Well, there is a Pokémon TCG app on iOS already. Also, The Pokémon Company operates in a fairly independent way, and is very protective. Like in Yoshi's Wooly World (and others) where the only amiibo not compatible are Pokémon. So don't expect Nintendo marketing mobile Pokémon games as their own, otherwise they'd already call Shuffle their "first mobile game".
You mean they want to avoid the business practice they already implemented in that Pokemon game on the 3DS?
Considering they're already implementing those models in the free to play games they've put out so far... yeah, I don't expect their mobile games to be any different, especially with DeNA being such a big part of it all.
@Yorumi Some words you should look up: "exploitation," "scam," and "arbitrary."
@Dr_Corndog
@yorumi seems to be using those words rather correctly.
explotation is selfish utilization for profit, which nintendo is certainly doing with amiibo, and amiibo festival.
scam, being a fraudulent scheme for profit. F2P games are generally that.
arbitrary, at one's discretion. nintendo deciding to lock content behind amiibo at their discretion.
@Yorumi Which makes sense with an online multiplayer focused game, that is also a new IP and released on a system with a very small userbase. I'd like to ask people to think before they start complaining.
@scamander
coming from someone named SCAMander... very sketchy O_O
anyway, how does it make sense? how does it being online multiplayer focused, a new IP and having a small userbase justify nintendo trying to control how people play?
sheesh, I don't see what the new IP aspect of it has to do with anything, but smash is very similar in being an online multiplayer heavy game. imagine if in online matches, content was locked on disk... would that make sense?
Meh, I don't really care about this as long as it doesn't mean we'll get even less games for 3DS and Wii U. If they can attract younger casual players and convince them to adquire the consoles, great for them.
I don't really care of their mobile output. If I want to be harsh, I'm hoping they will fail. Not total flop, that'll hurt the company, but at least not profitable to them (just make even). That will shut all opinion of people want Nintendo to go third party.
@Peach64 @Quorthon - As somebody who played both F2P Pokémon games on 3DS and way too many app games on my tablet, what he's criticizing here isn't what they do. I was leary of their games at the start having 2 kids each w/ their own 3DS and an addiction to Pokemon, b/c I know how those app games work - very sneakily. But you would be very hard pressed to spend money on either of those Pokemon 3DS games accidentally. And I'm pretty sure Rumble World has a limit of about $50.
I'm sure you are both aware of the berries in the Smurfs game and similar stories - parents being confronted w/ $100s in unexpected credit card bills.
Seems to me Iwata is saying 2 things here:
1. Purchases will be transparent, not sneaky, tricky or hidden.
2. Purchases will be reasonably limited, no $100 in game item purchases.
As long as they are able to adhere to that I'm fine w/ their free-to-start model.
@khaosklub er, it's a name from the Harry Potter-franchise.
As of the rest of your questions. I'll summarize 1 and 1 for you: New Online Multiplayer IP on dying system. What possibly can go wrong, if the game flops? Well, maybe, just MAYBE you wouldn't find new matches after a few weeks, because no-one were playing it anymore. So, what can you do to prevent this? Release new content every week for the first few months after release. But NO, that can't BE. The only reason Nintendo is locking the fully developed content is to screw its customers!!!!!
The Smash comparison is bologna, because Smash is one of the biggest franchises Nintendo has and the Multiplayer aspect of it isn't nearly as big as of Splatoon.
@Yorumi Yes, because making sure the community of your newly released online multiplayer game doesn't die too fast, as well as giving away some costumes to your die-hard fans that collect amiibo, is so anti-consumer. The whole "lulz, Nintendo can do anything and won't get criticized" stuff isn't even true. Nintendo gets even criticized, if they won't do exactly the game YOU want, because this whole community is full of self-entitled beautiful people.
Rumble World was close, but it didn't quite nail the F2P model. They need to do better than that.
What about the Pokémon Jukebox app, who made that? Cause on my phone (ok, my phone is pretty slow, but when an app runs, it runs) that app is slow as hell at everything.
Hmm, this is nice of Nintendo, but I do hope they exploit the F2P and all the notorious practices to the fullest, so they can earn a large profit from this business.
@Yorumi Concerning Splatoon: Not sure how it's a scam. Is the drip feed of content slightly annoying? Maybe. But having played the game, the model is fine as it is. The only thing I wish at this point is that all the maps available were eligible for rotation as opposed to every four hours. Also I'm far from an expert in this field, and it's pure speculation on my part, but I'm thinking it has more to do with preventing server stress and testing it as they add more modes/maps. That and the Wii U user base is so small (so by extension the Splatoon user base) they don't want to further thin it out between modes and maps. The scam would come in if the content was locked on disc and they charged you for content/modes... Sort of like how Capcom went under fire for locking Street Fighter IV disc content behind a paywall I think?
Splatoon amiibo, from what I've heard from others, as I've yet to use them in game, is nothing more than merely reskinned challenges/gear. So it's something a little extra for those who've invested in amiibo. Which is fine by me. It gives my $35 purchase some purpose should I delve into that. Nintendo is in a no-win situation there. They either don't utilize it right/enough to some or some feel it's locking them out if content mo matter how minor or trivial. I'm far from saying Nintendo does everything right because Nintendo, as I know for sure they have their gaffs, but I think in the case of art least Splatoon it's being criticized sort of unfairly.
@Yorumi most of the stuff that you mention is free. There's a handful of games on Wii U (of the top of my head Mario Kart 8, New Super Mario Bros. U, Pikmin 3 & Hyrule Warriors) that offer paid DLC and another handful on the 3DS and some F2P with additional paid content (Steel Divers comes to mind).
It is beyond me why ANYONE would complain about new content, such as in Splatoon, that is unlocked after a certain time FOR FREE. It is, as explained in several articles, to extend the longevity of the game, but obviously some people are finished more quickly with what's available at the moment, so they might think that it's "unfair" that they have to wait so long until they can use all this extra content. Or you can look at it with a glass half full view and try and improve your scores on the levels that you do have in preparation for the new levels instead of whining about what you don't have.
And even when content needs to be paid for, prices are VERY decent. Just look what amount of extras you get in Mario Kart 8 for $15; no other company has deals like that on either of the two other systems. It's great value for money or, as I like to say: DLC done the right way.
As for Amiibo: that isn't something I'm personally interested in, but I do think it's a better deal than Skylanders or Disney Infinity, since they are mostly tied to the game they came with, as opposed to an Amiibo that can be used in several games. If the content is already there or not isn't relevant; it's about the options that it can give you.
And DLC was already in use for a LONG time before Nintendo ever started to implement it. Are you also criticizing Microsoft and Sony in an equal manner concerning this now widely accepted concept?
If not, then why criticize Nintendo on it?
@Yorumi I can already see the sh**storm coming from people complaining that the Skells in Xenoblade Chronicles X won't be available right from the beginning.
The makers have said they will be available after 30 hours into the game. That to me is great news: gives you a good feel of how massive this game must be and it will make you appreciate it more when you've done all your initial quests on foot and afterwards acquiring a Skell will truly feel like a reward for all the hard work and hours you've put into the game.
But undoubtedly there will be thousands of whiners complaining about it, I'd dare to make a bet on that. It is beyond sad...
@Yorumi:
What's an on-disc DLC supposed to be? Nintendo never called those maps and weapons DLC; because they aren't DLCs. Do you even know what "DLC" means? "Downloadable content" implies that you CAN download them, but you don't have to. Not only don't you have an option to not download them, you also don't download them, because they are already on the disc. So calling it a DLC (or even worse, on-disc DLC) is just wrong.
The right term would be update, although it is uncommon for an update to already be on the disc.
But there was a true update just recently, when some things in Splatoon got nerfed. For that, you actually were forced to download something.
"As far as disc locked content goes, they decided they're going to restrict you from accessing something you legally own. I actually think you could make a case that what they did with splatoon is illegal but I'm not a lawyer."
That's were you're wrong. You don't own anything, you just buy the license to play it. The games are still owned by Nintendo. So there's nothing illegal about it.
Next time, don't make something up but research it first or at least ask a lawyer. Just because you "think you could" do something doesn't make it true.
@khaosklub First of all, Smash is not an online multiplayer heavy game. I'd say the online mode is more of an addition and maybe in some cases it takes up to 50% of the game. But if you're not a Smash expert who's playing online everyday, Smash is a pretty normal offline game with an additional online mode.
Splatoon on the other hand is a true online multiplayer heavy game with an additional offline mode. So they aren't that similar at all regarding the online aspect.
And, @khaosklub @Yorumi @scamander:
You don't seem to get the idea behind the drip-feeding. Nintendo isn't "screwing" or exploiting its customers (and I don't really get why this would be exploiting, Nintendo doesn't gain anything by this), the whole point is to let the users get accustomed to the game and to its modes.
I think that was a great idea, because some people need more time to get used to the controls and others aren't that experienced in playing online-shooters. Also this way you get to appreciate every mode more and find out little things that you otherwise would overlook.
Besides, turf war still hasn't gotten boring and Splat Zones is far from getting that. Now we got Tower Control and there is still one more mode to come. One can criticise Nintendo for other things but I think they made the right decision not to release everything at once.
This way everytime something gets released it gives the users a feeling of joy and discovering the unknown. If it all was released at once, you wouln't experience this.
@Yorumi well that's why gave the user base theory as well, as I know the server theory may not have been very sound. I'm not much of a CoDer, but doesn't Splartoon maps rotate in a similar fashion to the aforementioned? I believe Titanfall was the same way.
Another theory I have, and I think I've seen it stated before, is that they weren't done refining/tweaking the all the stages and modes but they pretty much had to rush the game out the door with what they had at launch which if is the case is pretty crappy, but I understand the logic as they would have absolutely nothing to launch in May otherwise. I'm not even going to touch the legal aspect as I don't know if someone does or doesn't have a case. In the end, and I'm probably not alone in this, but i feel like there's enough content to justify my purchase. Also, it's not like I'm being charged beyond my initial investment, so there's that. You're clearly the minority in this situation, and probably blowing this out of proportion to be harsh for harsh sake.
@shani @scamander
I actually didn't claim it was exploiting customers, I was just asking how it made sense for nintendo to control the user's experience.
and shani, I was referring to only the online part of it. smash is a big title, but the online side of it isn't all that great, but I see what harry potter guy is saying.
BUT, I still don't like nintendo's "we know what's best for you" and "you play our games the way we want you to!" philosophies. It's just like how they tried to take down game genie back in the day.
I think there are other ways to make keep interest in the game than limiting player's option in the game like that. they could have special events where a fun nintendo themed piece of clothing is given out.
I want to decide for myself how to experience the game and what to appreciate! I don't want nintendo forcing me to appreciate a level. This held back content is the reason I haven't picked up the game... that and I'm hoping for a club nintendo replacement. if that or all content has been unlocked, I'll download a copy of it.
@Yorumi I never disagreed with that, but it's still FREE, so it's just that I don't get the outrage of wanting everything unlocked from the get go, while you can have more than enough fun with the levels already available and with content still coming in the next few months, the fun can continue. It's like kids wanting to eat the whole bag of candy instead of listening to reason and just picking a few pieces. You will not be fulfilled if you can have it all at once, and where is the challenge in that?
Also still curious if you also hack into Microsoft and Sony for the same reason and I'm also curious to know if you're also going to be one of the people complaining about Xenoblade Chronicles X...
@Yorumi That may be true but it doesn't make it right. Just because people call it a virus or DLC, it doesn't mean it's a virus or DLC.
If I started to call cars "trees" and lots of people would follow doing so, would you do that, too? That would lead to language becoming arbitrary.
Really? Show me that court ruling. And I didn't say I'm okay with the licensing model, just stating facts. But even If there is such a court ruling (never heard of it): Those additional modes never were mentioned in ads or the product description. Therefore, when you bought the game, you obviously bought what was advertised. So in my opinion, you own just that, not the additional content that was already on the disc but was never mentioned.
And lol, are you seriously comparing Mario Bros. to Splatoon? The only thing those two games have in common... they are not black&white, but in colour. Mario Bros is a linear game where world 5-8 follow after world 1-4. But that's not the case for Splatoon. You go into the lobby, choose a mode and then you play it. So really, you're comparing apples and oranges.
@khaosklub: Wow, I couldn't do that. How can you hold yourself back and not buy it (assuming you want to play it)? I wanted Splatoon so badly that I preordered a download key. That's the second time I preordered something, the first time was GTA V for PC (and only because I already had played the singleplayer on Xbox360 and wanted the 1,5 Million $ bonus to catch up with a friend who's playing online mode from the start). Really, I don't get why you're waiting. Even if it only had one mode and two maps, I would've bought it straightaway.
I haven't played Smash that much online, but what about the online mode isn't that good in your opinion? It's the same as offline but with four human players, isn't that exactly what it's supposed to be? But maybe I expect different things than you. From a mainly offline game, I only expect an online mode that mirrors the offline mode but with human players online.
Other than that, I can understand how Nintendo limiting things annoys you, usually I hate such things, too. But so far Nintendo was always right with that and delivered a great, unique gaming experience. So because of that, I completely trust them. It's the only company (not only gaming) that hasn't disappointed me yet.
@Yorumi Even though this is a Nintendo only site and a Nintendo topic, you could also describe your dislike for DLC as a whole instead of just for the DLC that Nintendo offers, but fair enough. What about the Xenoblade question then? That's a Nintendo game...
@shani
I've been to the eshop several times hovering over it... but just kept deciding to wait. I don't need to play it right away, but I'd like to. I'm perfectly fine waiting for everything to unlock, so I can just jump into whatever mode or map I want.
I haven't played it much online either, mostly because I haven't been in a match without input lag. And the finding friends to play with online always seems kinda lacking. Steam has spoiled me in that regard I suppose. But mostly, it's the lag. Of all games I've played online, nothing lags anywhere near as much as smash.
Hey also limit how you can play in for glory. Banning for repeating same attacks? That's a major point of my meta game! So yeah... would it be that hard to set roomsvwhere certain aspects are not allowed? If all players agree, no one willbbe bothered by it, but no, only nintendo knows whats good for you.
Literally, it's just putting flags for certain checks, and matching players with the same flags! Just one options screen with switches.
It's like starfox assault. Nintendo wants the controls how they want it! Forcing tripping in brawl, repeatedly trying to force the competitive players to play nice with the casual smashers. Particularly smash, they have gone out of their way to prevent everything that made melee so much deeper. They went out of their way to alienate competitive players, so much so that fans created project M. You can easily make two modes that will appeal to each side. Melee could be played casually. They limited the options!
@khaosklub Ok I have to admit I never was a Smash fan and although I knew it since the very first entry on N64, I just started playing it since the Wii U version came out. The few times I played online I didn't register any input lag, have you tried it somewhere else with a different internet connection? Not that I would doubt your statement, it was just the first thought that came to my mind. Otherwise, an input lag would be really awful. So far I never played Smash online at home, only at a friend's (who is a big Smash fan). But I think I'll try it tonight, just to test it.
Repeating the same attack over and over gets you banned? Didn't know that, but in my opinion that's great! In every fighting game there are unskilled players (offline and online) who repeatedly use one combo (probably the only one they know) with an OP-character (like Zangiev in SFIV). I always hated that behaviour because it completely destroys the game for me and really is dull. And besides, it's really a sign of being unskilled.
Regarding your suggestion of splitting casual and pro gamers, that would make sense. But at the same time, I think it would prevent some casual gamers to learn from pros and improve their skills. Besides, Nintendo always wants everyone to get along with each other. I totally understand how that can be annoying (although it doesn't at all in the case of MK and Splatoon), but inclusion of all sorts of people (independent from age or gaming experience) was always one of Nintendo's main characteristics.
I never played Starfox Assault, but I always was curious about that game. I guess I have to test it someday.
Oh and regarding waiting and not buying it yet: I admire your patience! But I have to say, it really makes sense to start with the singleplayer (to get used to the controls) and then to play Turf War first (to get used to the maps, game mechanics and tactics). On the other hand, I always liked to play games in a different way than intended, because it gives you a different experience. But to be honest, after having this drip-fed experience with Splatoon, I actually would prefer the same method for other games, too. That is, if it suits the game. Drip-feeding modes, maps and weapons doesn't make sense for every game.
Encouraging lots of players to spend a small amount of money sounds much more honest than getting a few players to spend a ridiculous amount. Hopefully this approach works for them in the mobile market
@shani
From my experience, less experienced/skilled smash players don't really notice input lag. Frame lag is apparent, or game slowdown, but noticing all actions are permormed a whole 30ms later, it takes intimate familiarity with the game. Some people will just adapt without realizing a difference, but it makes a very different and less balanced game.
Since brawl, I've never found a connection anywhere that didn't have noticable (for me at least) input lag. Whether that's on me or not, a lot of players have this problem, andonline matches are based on both people's connections.
Yes, same move for you is great, but not for everyone. I generally repeat a character's more useless moves to lure, confuse or agrivate my opponent. To throw them off their game, like mario's cape, or F.L.U.D.D..
And if someone has a difficult move to evade, then the challenge is to overcome that move. Their trump card can become their weakness. If they consistently use one combo, the you learn the set up, lure them to attempt them and punish them.
knowing competitive street fighter 4 players, the name of the game is to learn your most damaging combo, watch spacing, and win the match with two good hits. Everything else is done to create an opening for that combo. That's just how the game works. If that doesn't sound fun for you, then street fighter isn't for you. I love smash precisely because it can't work that way.
If casual players want to improve, they play with competitive players. You lose a lot, and learn over time. That's how I learned melee. Getting my butt kicked and asking questions. If you split them, then everyone is included, and separate. They aren't including everyone, they alienate the competetive players. The competetive player hates the game when a casual player beats them by spinning the C stick, especially when they randomly trip. No one is getting along there. It was just their focus on casual players.
MK is and has always been a very casual game, designed to give players a random chance skewed in favor of those in last place. But 8 has many anti random chance abilities that will help more skilled players win. It was a very casual random chance game from the start given more skill based elements down the line.
I was curious about assualt too, got it cheap for gcn. It wasn't too bad until I got into a tank. The controls where just very poorly mapped, and I stopped playing and necer looked back.
@Yorumi So I guess you're okay with Xenoblade then. I do understand some of your objections, but we were talking about Splatoon earlier, and there is no pay-wall there since all content they unlock for us is free. Since I can't play it all at the same time anyway, I'm okay with that. It's the kid with the bag of candy thing I told you about earlier...
Nintendoomed
@khaosklub While I can't argue with most of what you wrote about Smash, you're wrong about MK. The very first MK on SNES was the hardest and didn't rely that much on random chance. You really had to be good at racing to beat the game, because the items didn't help you that much against the CPU. And there weren't so many items, either. But after the first entry, the game got more items and random chance became a greater factor. So I'd say it's the exact opposite of what you wrote. MK became more and more casual with every new entry. Still, if you're really good, like people with the highest ranks in online mode, you can outperform almost everyone, regardless of items. E.g. if a player with rank >1000 plays against weaker players, he (almost) always becomes first, no matter what.
That said, I'm still waiting for Nintendo to finally introduce a no-items-online-mode. Because so far you can only play online tournaments with no items. And those races are a lot tougher than usually!
And I wouldn't say that MK is any more casual than Smash. I mean they're both Nintendo games, so they're easy to learn, but hard to master.
I absolutely get what you mentioned about familiarity and noticing input lag. Of course you won't notice it if you don't know how it feels when there isn't one. I know this feeling from other games and when there's an input lag, you immediately notice it while inexperienced players don't.
But one thing you wrote is kinda funny: You say in SFIV it's the challenge to evade a powerful move made repeatedly by a casual player, but you're complaining about casual players spinning the C stick? It's the same thing!
It never crossed my mind that someone would repeat a move out of tactical reasons. Although to be clear, my experience (offline, not online) was more like this: They found a move that's easy to pull but still powerful and for the whole fight they never use another move. They just repeat that one move until you're dead! And then the next round they do it again. That's really boring and corwardly in my opinion and has nothing to do with skill. But I guess you wouldn't do that for the whole fight but just for some sections, to irritate your opponent, right? And I totally get the challenge to beat a one-combo-guy, but it takes the fun out of the game. And even when you're competitive, you still need the game to be fun for you on some level, right?
Regarding SFIV: I know, basically you learn your your favourite/most effective Super/Ultra combo and build up until it's ready, but that doesn't mean that even a high ranked player only limits himself to a few moves. Of course if you're really competitive, memorizing the combos and watching the spacing (in fact that's really important) are key, but in between it also helps to make all your hits connect after each other and if you're able to vary, it can not only be a tactical advantage, but it's also more artful. But I know that may be not so important to a really competitive player. Still I made very different experiences online. Like in survival mode, there was a high ranked player who was constantly beating everybody and he changed his character various times. Still he seemed to know every combo, didn't seem to make any mistakes and was almost unbeatable. I managed to beat him in the first round, but then he beat me twice and I lost. That was someone I could really learn from and it was a joy and interesting at the same time to see him beat the other guys in the queue. So to me, the "art of Street Fighter" is not just about limiting yourself to your strongest combos, but also to master everything and use it appropriately. The funny thing is though, eventually, that player got beaten by someone from Asia and that guy didn't have that much variety (although he wasn't limited to a few combos either) and seemed even more unbeatable. Still the first guy was the one I would look up to, not the second one.
@shani
for mariokart, I meant the multiplayer experience. it really hasn't gotten more casual. it's added more ways for better players to take the lead and get a further lead in later games. like bikes doing wheelies, better drift boosts, ways to avoid the blue shell, more varied selections of vehicles to go with the weight classes of the characters, and 200cc as some examples.
first off, smash is a lot harder to pick up and play than mariokart. both take a lot of learning, but mariokart doesn't have that much to account for, at it's base level, you need to hold A and steer. smash takes a bit more coordination to play. Also, victory in smash relies a lot on skill, and most of the random elements can be overcome with skill. in most smash games, there aren't really any random weapons that will do all the work for you like blue shells and bullet bills in mario kart. (though both of these are in smash now). blue shells will chase a person, but with nothing to follow up, usually won't do anything for you. and bullet bills can easily get you killed.
no, I mean in street fighter, the point is to avoid that first hit of the combo done by PRO players. that's what high competitive play becomes. you learn the highest damage dealing combo(s), and try to bait the other person into that first hit of your combo. not button mashing, practiced timed button presses that deal out the most damage with minimal risk to you. during a combo, the other player cannot do a thing.
also, being killed by the c-stick spinner is different... in brawl in particular, because the random elements that are everywhere can throw you into the attack, like if you trip right in front of an Ike's forward smash. it's aggravating to be punished for moving.
well, the thing about people that repeat one attack to defeat you, there can be several reasons for this. the street fighter mentality, where the move that deals the most damage while providing you with the most security. so people stick with the easiest strategy for the easiest victory. The thing with this is, many players are one trick ponies. I knew a guy in melee that specialized in the ice climber infinite grab. this is a very annoying technique that while difficult to perform, is easier than trying to think for an entire stock. He was an annoying opponent, but once I figured out how to avoid getting grabbed, he had nothing else up his sleeves, and then I consistently destroyed him by avoiding getting grabbed. I knew that for the entire match, this guy would be trying to grab me, so I could build a strategy around that. having an extreme strength like that can be a weakness if you rely on it too much.
then there's another case where one might use the same technique. competition requires you adapt to your opponent. if the opponent is consistently beaten by one move, and can't learn from it, why waste your entire arsenal? when the difference in skill is too great, it's not fun for either player generally. then again, when facing someone far less skilled, I generally do 1 of 2 things (so long as it's not for glory mode). I either take it easy and use my weakest move for almost the entire time, like mario fireballs, to handicap myself, or I'll practice a move/combo, so you'll get hit by that a lot as I try to perfect it.
There really is no way to have fun in one on one when the difference in skill is great.
also, in street fighter, you can mix in other attacks, but essentially, everything you throw in is to catch your opponent in one of your character's situation combos. some combos work best in certain situation, really depends. you take whatever opening you can and use an effective combo. everything that is not a combo is either a punishing free hit for your mistake (combo was not possible) or something to make an opening for their combo.
and sure, you can be good simply by being unexpected and very good, but the majority of competitive street fighter players are playing by the same book, learning the same combos and what to do in the same situations. it comes down to who can react properly with proper timing while playing with the opponents mind well enough.
this topic always reminds me of DDR. I know someone who was really good at the game. One time at the arcade though, I saw some asian guys playing by sitting on the bar and tapping with their feet on the highest difficulty. they were getting near perfect scores. I respect the guy who can plays it without the bar at almost the same level more than the people who found the easy dominant strategy.
Unfortunately though, many competitive gamers play in games like street fighter for money, and thus don't care about anything but the win. kinda becomes a job at that point I guess.
@khaosklub
Ah okay, now I get what you meant. Yeah, all the different ways to gain boost are indeed something that beginners and casual players don't get, that's true. I never understood what's so hard about that. Once you know all the ways to get a boost, it's not hard to use them in every moment where they're possible. But for inexperienced (or inattentive) players that seems to be too much. And the different vehicle parts, avoiding the blue shell with a mushroom and the 200cc mode are definitely not for casual players, that's absolutely true!
By the way, you can't (freely) perform a wheely in MK8. And I really wished there was no blue shell, bullet willy and super horn (because you already could evade the blue shell with a mushroom).
Yeah, MK has more random factors, but other than that? I mean, let four noobs play Smash and they will buttonsmash the hell out of it and still have fun. To me, that's similar to noobs in MK who don't know the shortcuts, how to get boosts and to evade incoming attacks (like: most players don't look behind, I always do when I hear someone approaching).
I'm not saying MK and Smash are neccessarily the same regarding difficulty or coordination in the endgame. But I think it's still very similar at the beginning.
An MK noob will only use the stick for Steering, 'A' to accelerate and (Z)L for shooting items. He won't know that you can actually select an item with that button or that you can perform stunts on every tiny bump or that you can use slipstream or steal items from your opponents or that you can drift and that there are different levels of drifting depending on how long you hold the button... and so on.
Similarly, a Smash noob will probably only use the stick and 'A' for standard attack and 'B' for special attack... at best, if they even know which button does what. But they won't know how to grab an opponent or how to make a smash attack and that there are four different smash attacks and of course, all the other things you mentioned that require not only quick reactions, but knowledge of the fighters etc.
I can absolutely agree with what you wrote about SF. Of course, if your opponent doesn't learn, you will use that specific attack more often, even if it is just to punish him and to say "Wake up!". That seems legitimate to me, because it shows that you're not a one-trick-pony. And that's exactly what I was criticizing: People who are one-trick-ponies. I really hate it, mainly because those people obviously don't know any other attack and didn't get the game at all. Of course, beating one-trick-ponies can be very satisfying, I often managed to that eventually. But sometimes I find it too frustrating.
What you wrote about fighting against a weaker opponent: I behave similarly, like letting them attack me, not using my strongest attacks, giving them room to breathe. Because it sometimes can feel really great to destroy your opponent, but when I see that I'm vastly superior, I tend to prefer to let them learn. That's something that even applies to other games that I play, like PES.
But I have to say, being the vastly weaker player can be fun, too. Like the SFIV online fight I described. Yeah, me and everybody else didn't stand a chance against that guy, but it was fun to learn from him, see how he builds up his combos. And it also was fun because he wasn't unfair. He showed off his abilities, sure, but he didn't demolish you in a way that takes the fun out of it. After all, you want your opponents to stay somewhat hopeful/positive, otherwise eventually no one wants to fight against you. ^^
@shani
well, newbies in smash, they will use either A or B, or the C-stick. along with holding the analog stick in direction of other characters. maybe jumping if you're lucky. more often than not, they just kill themselves. Some newbs will have fun, others will just quit playing such a stupid and not fun game.
Mariokart, you have signs everywhere telling you where to go, and warning that you are not going the right way, plus if you're doing terrible, a ton of items like bullet bill that essentially auto finish the race for you. Most people are very familiar with the concept of driving, so it's also fairly intuitive in terms of objective.
well, as the vastly weaker player, do you enjoy playing against the person you have no chance against? or did you enjoy watching him play? would it have been just as entertaining experience merely spectating? I mean, both smash and SF have modes for that right? just watching matches. maybe, may not be, but I suppose in most cases it isn't fun. there happen to be people out there that like remote chances of winning.
for the greater player, you might like teaching them, but that's if they're apparently even learning. if you go into street fighter and see the person is obviously button mashing, you'll probably groan as you sit back and let out some projectiles or light punch them when they wander too close to you or something. I mean VASTLY different.
there's a difference between an up and coming contender and someone who is just terrible at the game.
oh yeah, and nintendo needs to stop deciding what's best for gamers.
@khaosklub Yeah of course the weaker player should be eager and interested in learning, otherwise any effort is useless. While only spectating can be interesting, too, I couldn't stand just watching, I would want to play. And even when I lose, I still learn something. Like thinking about how to counter his attacks or something similar. I mean, losing can teach you alot (and eventually should lead to winning ).
Oh, and button smashers are the worst!
Show Comments
Leave A Comment
Hold on there, you need to login to post a comment...