The Nintendo Wii U Is Better Value For Money Than Xbox One Or PS4, Says Reggie

looking at the quality of games released this year I'm inclined to agree, Nintendo's showing has been much better than the PS4 and XB1

Try telling that to my mom this Christmas, Reggie. She's stingy.

@Captain_Toad Just tell her, "Let's settle it in Smash!"

It costs less if you don't factor in sales.
It has a bigger library.
You don't pay for a monthly online subscription.
And of course Mario, Zelda, Smash, Bayonetta 2, Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate, etc.

Yeah, of course its the best value.

It's definitely true. With all the quality games coming out for Wii U this year, AND next year, it has the greatest value. Meanwhile, the PS4 has, what, Little Big Planet 3? And the Xbox One has Halo. Not the greatest lineup, if you ask me... (I still love the PS4, though.)

"[if] you want to play these great games, you want to have these fantastic experiences, you have to upgrade to the Wii U."

Yeah and if you want to play major AAA third party titles, you have to own a PS4 or Xbox One. Sounds like a wash to me. And by the way Reggie, MK8 ain't that good. I really wish Nintendo would stop being so proud out of a game I got less than a week's worth of enjoyment out of.

I agree that Wii U is a better value. The PS4 and Xbox One are money vacuums comparatively. Sure they cost more up front, but then there's PS Plus and Xbox Live Gold. Plus games don't see price drops as easily and every disc has to install, ensuring you'll need to buy a hard drive for additional storage even if you exclusively use physical discs instead of retail downloads. I've had my XB1 for a month and own five games. Half of my storage space is GONE. It's ridiculous. Thank God the Wii U doesn't do that.

Much as I love all of my consoles, I'm inclined to agree with Reggie. I've made it no secret that I'm dissatisfied with paying a subscription just to play with friends and family on the same network when I can do so for free on the Wii U. I've made it no secret that I'm not moved by the lack of backwards-compatibility for the sake of streamlining game production resulting in subpar, mediocre monstrosities and to be extorted into paying a rental fee to play games that are pennies on the dollar at pawn shops or GameStops. I'm quite dissatisfied with Sony and Microsoft for not dating to take risks with gaming and just giving us more of the same experiences we had last generation. It's time for a change.

Nintendo rules! All others drool!

I agree I just wish more third party titles came to Wii U. But I have a PC for that

He brings up a good point about competing with newspapers, magazines, and TV in the sense that it's all entertainment stuff.

Keep patting yourself on the back reggie
That'll help increase sales as X1 passes WiiU this holiday season.
Meanwhile reggie snubs American nintendo fans with special editions, club $h!tty Ninty awards, VC screw ups and more.
I love nintendo but they're waisting their potential.

I agree somewhat, the few exlusives on Xbone went multiplat (PC) after some time and it seems that this trend will continue. The PS4 on the other hand dose have some exclusives to it, which don't interest me so far, the only title I'm interested in is KH3 which we heard nearly nothing about up until now.
It seems like if you want to get the most games out of this console generation you should go WiiU/PC, atleast at the moment ^^

It may be good value, but they're still not going to sell a Wii U to the average consumer INSTEAD OF an XBone or PS4.

They needed to cut the price a year ago to an impulse-purchase price of around $250 to attract causal gamers off smartphones, and attract XBone and PS4 gamers to pick up a second system

But I fear it's too late already

In terms of gaming, the Wii U has the better software at the moment. In terms of mass appeal, well, that's where Nintendo are struggling. They need to get the word out better than what they've done. Why they didn't advertise the heck out of Bayonetta is beyond me. Bayonetta 2 is the best game of the year, on any console, and it barely got a mention from Nintendo, other than that weird Playboy team-up ...

Nintendo has a hidden gem in the Wii U, but it needs to come out of hiding.

I'll have no choice but to agree. Compared to the Xbox One and PS4, the Wii U has so many games on there that it's like a buffet of flavors. Super Mario 3D World, Hyrule Warriors, Bayonetta 2, Lego City Undercover, and so many more, even the upcoming ones like Super Smash Bros for Wii U, Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker, Yoshi's Wooly World, Splatoon, etc. Nintendo has seriously put their backs into this system this holiday season and the Wii U is definitely a must-have as of now.

As for the Xbox One and PS4, I am still not sure what games I would want for those systems. For the former, there's Sunset Overdrive and Project Spark, but even those two games aren't enough to entice me to getting the system at the moment. The PS4 will need a handful amount of Ratchet & Clank games and JRPGs in order for me to buy it and so far, I don't see any of them, and the R&C game coming to PS4 is a remaster of the very first game in the series, so I'll be passing on that.

All systems have advantages and disadvantages its up to the consumer which one do they want and feel is the best for their household.

how about we cut out the 2 games and sell it for 179.99

At the end of the day, everything he says is PR. There's nothing to analyse in terms of their plans. He told us before there would be no price cut, then they dropped the price. He told us there would be no repeat of the 2013 game drought in 2014, and we ended up with another drought. You will never hear anything from that man that's not a carefully planned statement to put a positive spin on things. If people felt it was the best value, it wouldn't be struggling like it is.

The perception of the Wii U is that it's 7th gen tech sold at 8th gen prices, or even worse a perception there's no point paying such a high price for a console that might be replaced sooner rather than later. I think there will be another price drop within 6 months as they need to reposition it as a companion to a PS4 or Xbone instead of competition.

The COO of Nintendo thinks his product is better than the competitors' product. Who knew?

Come on, this is stupid. I'm a big Nintendo fan but not everyone likes Nintendo games. Sales show that the majority prefer more realistic games. Either way, I have a reason to post this pic.

I only agree because the Wii U has games and experiences you can only get on the Wii U.

Sure, the PS4 and One have third party support that the Wii U will likely never see, but they're no reason to drop $400. Every worthwhile game on the PS4 and One is also available on the PS3, 360, and PC. If you have one of those, there is absolutely no reason to upgrade. There really isn't. Last of Us Remastered? Great, but it's on PS3. Halo Master Chief Collection? Okay, fine, but every Halo game excluding Halo 2 is on the 360. Destiny, Watch_Dogs, Evil Within, Shadow of Mordor, Call of Duty? All available on PS3 and 360. Assassin's Creed Unity? Hardly worth the upgrade based on the press so far. Ryse, Titanfall, Knack, Forza, Dead Rising? All either ported to PC, underwhelming, or both.

At this point in time, I agree with Reggie. If Sony or Microsoft start making PS4 and One exclusives that are worth the price of admission and start leaving the PS3 and 360 behind, my thoughts might change. However, we're now a year out and there hasn't been a thing that (in my opinion) warrants the purchase of either console.

Call me a fanboy if you will, but that's my opinion. I see no reason to upgrade my 360 to a One or buy a PS4.

I'm happy to see the Wii U gaining momentum. No, it's not a perfect system but Nintendo is sure blowing it up with great games.

Simple - Let's Not Forget - Nintendo Won E3.

For the moment what he says is true. Nintendo had an early start that allowed it to build a library of Nintendo published exclusives. However, eventually the other two will catch up.

What Nintendo does have is quality. My fear is that Microsoft and Sony letting games like Watch Dogs, Assassin's Creed Unity, Wolfenstein, GTA5 and others through while requiring huge day one patches or horrible game breaking bugs is going to burn consumers out on video games. At least with Nintendo games, so far, the day I purchase is the day I play and patches are reserved for balancing and adding things.

Lol NO!!!

@KillScottKill Are people really still hung up on "AAA" titles? And most of them can be played on PC, anyway, so it's no advantage for MS or Sony.

Even though I did just recently purchase an Xbox One, I do agree that the Wii U does come across as the better deal. It has more exclusives, free online, and an amazing controller in the form of the Gamepad which can really add to the experience of some games. It is also backwards compatable, one of the key reasons I went out of the way to get a Wii U on launch day (and too long afterwards, finally getting The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword).

Still, some peoples opinion will differ on this matter because some peoples tastes in games differ. Certainly, Nintendo has a large line up of quality games that are exclusive to the Wii U, but some may not enjoy those exclusives and prefer what the Xbox One or PS4 is offering... although, I have no idea what the big PS4 exclusive is supposed to be this holiday. I mean, Xbox One has Sunset Overdrive and technically the Halo: Master Chief Collection (unless you happen to have owned all 4 of the Halo games across both the Xbox and Xbox 360). The biggest Sony game I've heard about coming out is LittleBigPlanet 3, the one game that Sony announced at E3 that could have tempted me in a PS4, yet that's also available on the PS3 now.

Okay, kind of went off track there. Overall, I do believe that the Wii U has the most to offer right now and this Christmas, but in the end it depends on peoples personal preferences. I wish the Wii U good luck in selling well this Holiday period.

I been playing my Wii U straight up since the release of Hyrule Warriors. Barely touch my PS3/4 and I'm sure I won't anytime soon outside Dead or Alive until Disgaea 5, Final Fantasy and/or Persona 5 come out, and that's IF Xenoblade X doesn't hits shelves first.

What can I say? I agree.

Yep, the first thing I took away from this is no price drop and why should they now of all times. You have arguably their biggest game about to release and the holiday season to boost one last rush. For those patient enough it will be 250$ in April heading into their new fiscal year.

I bashed Reggie enough last week so Ill just go ahead and agree w/ his main premise this time, value is there, games are there, you really should own this system if you like playing video games.

The problems are still there though.
4 or 5 big games launch today - Far Cry 4, Dragon Age Inquistion, LBP3, WWE2K15 and GTAV on this gen hardware. Most of those are multiplats (LBP3 is on PS3 and PS4) but none of those 5 are on Wii U. Neither were AC:U or AC:R or CoD or a host of others.
Watch Dogs releases on Wii U today, months later and almost invisble, no ads or screenshots or vids of the Wi U version
Bayonetta 2 and Hyrule Warriors are great games, not enough marketing effort
MK8 is great Reggie says, SSBU is coming out Friday, and the Wii U is being bundled w/ 2 year old Nintendo Land and 1 year old SM3DW instead of either of those games, real big wasted opportunity

So yes, great value, great games, but not enough creativity in marketing, same old story.

@KillScottKill The reality is that since the Wii U's release, Nintendo have steadily been releasing excellent first party games as well as the odd titles from second and third party developers. Since the Wii U is so affordable, it's been more than satisfactory to keep playing the AAA third party titles on last generation's PS3 and Xbox 360 while having access to Nintendo software too. Since Microsoft and Sony stil haven't dropped support for 360 and PS3, the Wii U's is becoming a worthy, special library and those who own next-gen systems seem largely dissatisfied with the console exclusives (and lack thereof), Nintendo really are in a fantastic position.

By the way, I'm amazed that you didn't think MK8 is amazing, what didn't you like about it? I'm legitimately interested to hear a rare negative opinion about the game.

@XCWarrior You know you would be saving a lot of money if you just pay once a year right?

@kyuubikid213 It really is the software that makes a console, and you're absolutely right. It seems like as long as you have a 360 or a PS3, you're getting more or less everything if Wii U is your choice right now.

I only play Mario and Zelda. So I'm there, Reggie, I'm there.

Great value in US but in the UK we're not so lucky.

@BinaryFragger I find that since I have a 360 there's really not much I'm missing out on even though my main console is the Wii U

@FullbringIchigo I kind of wish there were more titles like ZombiU, WWE or UFC/Boxing style of games for Wii U. Other than that I'm happy with my Wii U though.

@rjejr I agree 100%. I was about to get on Reggie...again, but realize he has a point. HOWEVER, if you're going to boast about HD graphics and so on, then the Wii U is NOT the system to go for. Advertise what make the Wii U different than the XBox One and PS4. So far both of their holiday bundles trump the Wii U's. Which is a shame because I always expect Nintendo to come up during the holidays. Smash is going to do some earth shattering records for Wii U. More than likely it will be the best selling game on the Wii U. Can't wait.

I'm surprised at Reggie. If you're going to throw some shade at the competition, make sure your stuff is impeccable or at least as good as the competition's. With no 3rd party and and the old games bundled with the system now (except for MK8), there would be no reason for me to buy a Wii U at that moment. The Wii U is a great console and Nintendo's quality is the reason I bought one on launch day. I just want them to step it up!

@rjejr

The way I see it, families who want MK8 and/or Smash will buy the machine along with those two games, and getting two old (and not bad) games in the package, for a total of four games, instead of just buying the bundle with the games they want. More money for Nintendo.

And hey, he used his free TV time to advertise Bayonetta 2 this time! No HW, but no Wii Fit U in sight either!

Wii U has the exclusives and I buy consoles for the exclusives, not the multiplats. Currently I have no interest in the other consoles, they are put bluntly overpriced PC's. I will get a much better PC shortly mainly for my work tasks but also to play a bit, and at much better value. There, I'll have my 3rd party fix soon along with the best 1st party games in the world.

@BinaryFragger Yep I agree with everything you said.

The Wii U has the benefit of having one of the best reviewed games of the year as an exclusive (Bayonetta 2) and two big buzzworthy titles in Smash Bros and Mario Kart 8 - which I do consider buzzworthy still thanks to the very well received DLC.

It does hurt that the Wii U misses these huge third party games that seem to be coming out on every other system except the U. Today has a ton of hot titles coming out, none of which are on Wii U, giving the perception that it is lacking and out of step with the gaming world today.

I do hope that the sales boost that Smash Bros provides and a bigger 2015 release calendar will convince a few third parties to come back.

Triple A titles on other consoles have become, for the most part, garbage in everything but graphics, and the ones that aren't, other than Last of Us, I can just get on PC. They get released full of bugs, and are increasingly starting to nickel and dime the player. A lot of the companies that make or publish them are focusing far too much on their shareholders to the detriment of their customer base. Plus, they are pushing things in the direction of "always online," which is fine for PC but should never become the norm on consoles.

I'm a big ninty fan but In the uk the wii u is a rarity! (most shops have discontinued now).
I'm also upset that the tvii is still not available 2 yrs after launch, plus the lack of vc (the wii had more) as for third parties I would like more, as I'm missing my tigerwoods, cod, diablo. And the titles I really want never arrive Dragon quest X, monster hunter 4 wii u.
I'm looking forward to the horizon but in true Nintendo fashion the edge is allways taken off games by omitting a game breaker in my eyes...ONLINE AND VOICE CHAT, I mean how to do co-ordinate a turf war in splatoon without being able to chat, or online 4player hunts in xenoblade without chat. I also think they could have sold more hyrule warriors if it had online co-op. and so the story goes on.........

@Dr_Corndog lol what? How is that any different? Xbox, Playstation, or PC - the point is that you would still need a separate machine from your Wii U to play these games. The platform doesn't matter. I suppose you could say, "yeah but most people already own a PC and don't need to spend additional money," but that isn't always the case. All I have is a MacBook Pro, so playing AAA PC games is out of the question. If you want to be a dedicated PC gamer, it still costs additional money just like a PS4 or Xbox One would.

What's the other Game? There's Mario Kart 8 & that's the only one that it lists.

@sinalefa - Really, he mentioned B2? I just told AronSullivan I woudln't watch it b/c Reggie annoys me too much but I guess I should.

And I agree that from a family perspective it's a good bundle, and families will buy those other games, but for a holiday perspective and gaming perspective they should be offering bundles w/ SSBU for people who really are only buying a Wii U for that game and maybe HW and Bayonetta. Nintendo had a ZombieU bundle at launch and the WW HD bundle last year but they seem to be playing it safe this year and promoting only the SM3DW bundle. That may be a fine bundle but it's not "special ed" or anything. That's what the holidays are for, advertising special edition bundles. SSBU, gamecube adaptor, Gamecube controller, Mario amiibo for $329. MK8 had a similarly priced bundle w/ the MK8 wheel when it launched.

Best Buy Wii U console page:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/wii-u/wii-u-consoles/pcmcat274600050016.c?id=pcmcat274600050016

Target

http://www.target.com/c/nintendo-wii-u-consoles-video-games/-/N-55xbh#?lnk=lnav_shop categories_2

Gamestop still has all the old bundles but no new ones

http://www.gamestop.com/browse/nintendo-wii-u/systems?nav=28-xu0,131b0-c4-4f

@NintendoMan94 but where is that going to get you in a year or two? These consoles are a generation long investment. Plus there are games beginning to see 8th gen exclusivity (like AC Unity).

As for MK8, it's a fine game - not bad at all. It's just not worth all the hype it gets as being "THE GAME" to get a Wii U for. I suppose Nintendo keeps beating its drum because it's a console mover to casual gamers, but it's hardly a gem. Like I said, I only got about a week's worth of enjoyment out of it because it's short and doesn't add much to the franchise. I suspect Smash will be similar. I'd rather play something like Bayonetta 2, a new Zelda, or a really creative new Mario experience. Those are the kind of things that are really unforgettable.

It only sounds like a great deal to consumers if those consumers know next to nothing about video games and are buying a console ignorantly just to "get some video games."

In reality, the average gamer and consumer will walk the aisles looking over all the games available for these consoles, and they'll see far larger libraries for the XBO and PS4--try it any time. Go to any Best Buy and observe--as any other consumer can and will do--that the 3DS, Wii U, DS, and any remaining Wii shelf space clumped together is about the same size as the PS4 floor space alone. Those same consumers will see big-name franchises like Assassin's Creed, Call of Duty, Madden, the 2K Sports line, Farcry 4, Dragon Age: Inquisition, and Grand Theft Auto advertised readily on TV, then observe that none of those games are available on the Wii U, further lowering its appeal.

Reggie's comments smack of corporate mumbo-jumbo stated in ignorance of what they're actually up against. The XBO can be purchased for $350, with a major title like Call of Duty (reviewing amazingly well this time), and a built-in 500 GB hard drive, which handily mocks the 32GB of the Wii U. The Wii U may have more exclusives right now, but it has far fewer games, and the library is growing slowly, and almost not-at-all in the retail side. Conversely, the PS4 and XBO libraries are booming and backed by strong 3rd party support.

The Wii U has Smash Bros and Bayonetta 2 and Captain Toad this fall and holiday season.

Microsoft and Sony have CoD, Dragon Age, Evil Within, Assassin's Creed, Madden, 2K Sports, Farcry 4, Grand Theft Auto V, Destiny, and several others.

Microsoft alone also has the Halo collection and Sunset Overdrive.

Sony alone has Last of Us remastered and LittleBigPlanet 3--and the Vita, long called a failure by Nintendo fans, has Minecraft.

No Luigi's Mansion Wii U no business.

Actually, the wii U has more exclusive games. Most of the AAA titles you can play them on PC :>

And what third party AAA titles? COD? FIFA? Destiny?
Those aren't executed right (destine) and are rehashed to the death or don't have anything new than other existing games.

@XCWarrior

I don't think you understand what's included in the monthly subscription service for Sony and MS. To the tune of several games per month. It's quite valuable--oh, and optional.

I love Nintendo but.........I have to disagree & agree Nintendo has a bigger library (Somewhat) with Nintendo games. Which is fine. But lets be honest here Xbox kind of had a good value.

@Gridatttack

GTAV HD: 97
Minecraft: 89
Dragon Age Inquisition: 89
Far Cry 4: 86
Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor: 84
Metro Redux: 83
Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare: 83
NBA 2K15: 84
Fifa 15: 82

Yeah, just look at all that sub-standard 3rd party crap not available on the Wii U. Nothing refreshing or executed right at all.

What completely original and refreshing game does Nintendo have on the Wii U? I see a wealth of sequels, and Nintendo Land.

Wait, so there isn't going to be a holiday bundle? Hasn't Nintendo noticed the huge spike that the XboxOne is achieving with the price cut +bundles? Nintendo is great but man they live in a bubble. I was expecting a Smash bundle for $279 at the very least. I believe the Xboxone bundle with the 500gb white box and Sunset Overdrive for $349 is a better value. There isn't much print for the WiiU in all if those black friday ads. The masses read those ads. Gamers that already own the WiiU , or are considering it,are the only ones hearing this message. Who are you talking to Reggie because I don't believe it is the demographic that Nintendo should be focusing on. BLAH

I wanna agree but I dunno. Wii U has more quality games at the moment, but also had the least remaining potential. Since third parties outside of collabs and Ninty-funded games are all gone, Nintendo has to support this console all on their own. There are also indies, but that's hardly a selling point. And since Nintendo has to provide most of the support now, they'll burn out faster and abandon the Wii U hardware in favor of their next gen machine earlier than we fans would hope. In other words, Wii U doesn't have the life expectancy of its competitors nor their predecessors. I expect it to last a year less than the Wii, even.
The Wii U is an "in-the-moment" machine with great, highly-enjoyable games, but unfortunately I wouldn't recommend it to people who can only have ONE machine unless they are Nintendo mega fans. Many of those mega fans would already own one by now though.
Anyway, a few more days til Smash U! Excite!

@Quorthon I agree with you but out of those games, only 3 interest me. But in a few years, there will be 20 games not available on the WiiU that I want to play.

@Quorthon I already have the GTA games on PS2. Why play the newest one? (I havent tried it, but im looking foward it)

Minecraft is available on almost any pc nowadays.
NBA2K15. Whats new in this? Is it the same as the old NBA? (all I know is the lol face recognition)

FIFA 15. Seriously, this game is the same as past tierations. No need play them every year.
And seriously, advanced warfare? You gotta be joking

Dunno about the others. But the fact you posted the scores is meaningless. Some of the games are still the same thing over and over that have been more rehashed than nintendo has done with 2D mario. (COD, FIFA)

@shigulicious
There's a bundle at either Walmart or Bestbuy (can't remember which) which gives you the Mario 3D World bundle with the addition of DKTF and Smash U for $359.

As a gamer from the late 80's early 90's I will agree with reggie only to the extend that the Wii U does have some excellent exclusives. What's kills the Wii U is the lack of AAA titles. The only reason I have the wii u is because i prefer nintendo games over the rest, I do not play much games anymore due to other priorities, and it is still the best family/party console IMO. However, even if i was still a heavy gamer (i was a heavy PC gamer back in the day), i would probably own a Wii U and a PC, as the PC has most of the multiplats and you can still play much older games from way back in the day. If you want the best bang for your buck go with the PC + Wii U bundle. PS4 and Xbox Ones are basically weak PCs. Also keyboard and mouse combo rules for FPS games

@shigulicious

I generally always buy a Nintendo console first when a new generation rolls around, but since the 5th generation (N64/PS1 era), I've been buying my secondary console sooner and sooner (with the exception of the GameCube era, as it actually had good 3rd party support for the bulk of the generation), and this is the first time I bought my non-Nintendo console the first year it's out (the PS4).

There are already too many games that I want not available on the Wii U or 3DS. And I didn't start playing Call of Duty until the Wii U, and now, to be honest, I'd really like to play it again and the new one keeps drawing my attention (my girlfriend and I co-op it online). I'm not missing Witcher 3 or Mortal Kombat X. Now I'm ready for 'em.

@Quorthon
Most, if not all, of those games you listed are sequels or rehashes. Can't be pulling the "no refreshing games" card when talking about Wii U when that affects EVERY console.

Well, what did you expect him to say? Nothing new

It's the best value if you don't care about playing all the big titles most of the rest of the world will be playing... That's the harsh truth unfortunately. Yes, the Wii U is the cheapest, but it's also the odd man out. Yes, we have Mario Kart 8, but guess what we don't have... Pretty much every big third party title that has been released in the last year. So yeah... "best value" is pretty subjective.

Good ole Reggie, keeps marketing the system to the people who don't buy it. He said the same thing last year when a pair of $400-$500 systems with no games ran laps around the Wii U.

@Gridatttack

Congratulations on trucking out the old Nintendo fan hypocrisy. "All those other games are just the same thing every time." Yes, because Mario Kart and Mario and Zelda games are all totally different every time. No, no they're not.

Mario Kart 8 had no learning curve at all--because it was identical to almost every Mario Kart that came before. Zelda is Nintendo's Halo or Call of Duty--a franchise trucked out annually, and since 1998, has only missed about 3 years--but Nintendo made up for it by featuring several years with MULTIPLE Zelda releases. Call of Duty is bad for doing the same thing over and over, but Zelda is good for doing the same thing. At least Call of Duty games have new stories and features, instead of relying on almost the same identical story in almost every title (Link-hero boy is the hero of legend, has to save Hyrule and Zelda from Ganondorf, repeat ad nauseam).

While you sit there and scoff naively and pat yourself on the back for a vapid comment that, I'm sure, sounded good at the time, you're using your personal anecdote to advertise ignorance that GENERAL GAMING CONSUMERS are looking for the very games you think are stupid. They are looking for the latest sports titles--and they sell every year. They are looking for Assassin's Creed, GTA, and Call of Duty.

Yep, I "really just said Call of Duty," which annually sells more copies than there are Wii U consoles in people's homes.

@Yorumi

Glad I'm not the only one to see that hypocrisy. We're about to see the closing of the second full year for the Wii U on the market, and Nintendo has delivered only one new IP in that time--and it was Nintendo Land. Captain Toad (comes just after the two-year anniversary of the Wii U, but still, that'd only bring the total up to 2).

@Yorumi I edited that part long before you commented that. (I said it as out of context)

@Quorthon I mentioned that the mario games have been rehashed too. Im just saying that its not as they rehash excessively every year like other games like COD and FIFA does.

And funny how you think I said the games are 'stupid' when I never did.

I'm not very convinced. Samsung's phone has much more features and functions compared to apple but apple is still selling way more. Having a better value to your competitors is good, but I don't think it plays a major role in convincing the purchase.

@DilMan33
LBP has a better level editor and you can do all kinds of things with it. Mario Maker seems to be very simple, not a bad thing, but something you've been able to do for years with right tools (I would like to make Super Mario World levels in Mario Maker). Yes, I'm waiting for that title, but when I look at level editors in some of the competing titles, it seems too simple.

I can agree mostly about the best value Reggie is talking about. I've really enjoyed Wii U games. MK8 is not that fabulous though, too slow and boring compared to the superior Sonic & A-Stars Racing Transformed. But the thing this "best value" is really lacking are the 3rd party titles. It makes me sad that Wii U isn´t getting Batman Arkham Knight but that's because Wii U doesn't have enough power. GTA V on the other hand... that could've been possible for the system to handle since it's a last gen game. Nintendo really needs to make a bigger effort in getting 3rd parties aboard for the next console.

@Gridatttack

You must not be aware of the upcoming Pokemon remakes, Majora's Mask remake (the 5th platform this game will be available on), and so forth.

Nintendo DOES rehash excessively. Indeed, many of their rehashes are WORSE than annual Call of Duty or Fifa games, because Nintendo is filling that release schedule with REMAKES AND PORTS.

Suffice to say, if you're going to buy Majora's Mask 3D, you forfeit your right to complain about Call of Duty being rehashed. Every Call of Duty uses the same engine, but is a new game. Again, this is MM3D marks the fifth platform the game can be played on--the exact same game: N64, GC, Wii, Wii U (via Wii VC), 3DS.

I'd rather have a somewhat repetitive, but new Call of Duty title every year than to be fed literally the exact same Zelda game with this frequency.

@Luffymcduck

This generation has finally made the case that hardware power truly matters. Many of the game engines that will define this generation will not run on the Wii U, and that will continue to marginalize the console. Since Nintendo fans, by and large, only buy the consoles for 1st party games, maybe it's time for me to change my stance--maybe it really is time for Nintendo to just go 3rd party.

I wish I could have Witcher 3, Mortal Kombat X, and the next Fallout on the Wii U, but that's never going to happen.

Reading the comments here, I'm a bit shocked and I wonder why there's so much complaining. There's a great thing that we all have called "choice". I choose to buy a game system which has the games that i like to play, which in this case happens to be the Wii U, since i mainly only play smash and kart. If you like other games, get a different console or PC instead of the Wii U. If you have the Wii U, then enjoy the games that you like most on it, it makes no sense to complain about the games that it lacks. If you no longer believe that it is a good value, then sell it and get something else, or give it away and get something else. Why all the emotions?

@Quorthon Wow, jumping over the edge? And no I wont buy MM3D (neither like I did with OOT3D)

But lets see, what things make every COD a new game? Just a new similar game mode? Different stories? After all isn't what the online that matters the most? I give merit to AW that tries to introduce new stuff (the exo suit), but its still flawed on some areas as I see people commenting on it.

@Yorumi Again, I edited the 'new and refreshing' part form my post long before you commented (and while Quorthon was replying to comment) But yes, you could say that. Im actually looking to get a PSVita (been saving for it)

Agreed. I have a PC and a Wii U and honestly this is the best setup for me this generation. I don't see something special about PS4 and Xbox One. Almost anything on those two platforms I can get better on the PC, so...

@AVahne

I don't know, I find quite a bit about the PS4 to be quite refreshing. Wolfenstein isn't particularly advanced, but it is refreshing to me to have a single player FPS title after a year of mostly playing Wii U which didn't fill this itch for me. Alien Isolation, Velocity 2X, the P.T. demo, and several other things are quite refreshing.

I will agree that the industry has a problem with creating new games and experiences, but then, Destiny is a new, highly successful IP, and Nintendo doesn't seem to care much about new IPs, and worse, Nintendo fans seem to flatly not care at all--just so long as they get Majora's Mask on a fifth platform.

No company relies as much on nostalgia, remakes, rereleases, or rehashes as Nintendo, and ultimately, it is not selling their consoles.

@Yorumi I think given the choice, Ubisoft would have delayed all of the versions of both Watch Dogs and Assassin's Creed. They needed income to survive, so they did a media blitz to sell copies before people knew how bad it was. Sega did something similar with the new Sonic games.

@Gridatttack

My girlfriend got me the Vita for Xmas last year, and three months of PSN+, and since then, I've renewed for a year and it partially inspired my interest in the PS4 (which I purchased, despite most of my gaming last gen being on the X360). The Vita is a fun system, but I don't take it everywhere like I do the 3DS--and it's a shame to see Sony treating it in such a half-assed manner.

Still, though, I have a large library on it thanks to PSN+, and have found a place that seems to feed my shmup needs.

Now, to the other thing--it sounds like you haven't actually played Call of Duty games. Quite a lot changes in them, and like Smash Bros, they are filled with extra game modes, customization, and options--and there is a new one every single year. They aren't all great, but Black Ops II and Ghosts are my two most-played games on the Wii U due to the generally excellent online gaming. There is a reason Call of Duty is as huge as it is.

It's a popular title to hate, but then, it's also just a popular title. Advanced Warfare alone will sell more copies this winter than there are Wii U consoles in people's homes. They change enough that people have their favorites, but they are familiar enough to jump right in.

I really love Nintendo and Reggie, but this is the first time I disagree with him. For $299 you do get a Wii U with 2 games, but the system is lacking A LOT of features the next gen consoles have, including simple thing like video playback from dvd and blu-ray, and their third party support is absolutely pathetic! The only good reason to buy a Wii U is if you only want Nintendo games, and I personally want a little more then that.

If you where going to go by price and deal, you would most likely go Xbox One, especially since it's only $399 with 1 or 2 games depending on the bundle. Also, people would be smarter to buy a X1 or PS4 because they get the third party games and know there will be a great selection of games to play, while Nintendo home consoles are becoming well known to only have Nintendo made games which are super kiddie platforming games, which is just not much in the way of variety.

With how long it takes Nintendo to bring games out, to most people, Nintendo home consoles aren't usually worth it till almost the end of there life span.

@Quorthon Well. Its true that I haven't played the newer COD (Ghosts, AW, BO2)

I used to play a lot of MW2 with my cousin back in the days and BO, but when MW3 came out, we really didn't saw new stuff that we already experienced in MW2 and BO (in the multiplayer aspect), other than the zombie mode from BO was changed to a survival with people instead of zombies. (I stopped playing because my cousin got fed up too and didn't bought the newer COD, since he switched to battlefield)

But yes, I guess I haven't really played them because I never owned them directly.

Im actually thinking playing back COD after a bit of more times, when like 3 or so more games are released. As from what ive heard, the changes in BO2 and Ghosts werent that great at all (Other than the usual new maps and story), but it seems with AW, they're trying to add important new things.

I'm not too sure what else he would say.

Wii U>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>...other consoles...

Nobody mentioned the context of that statement in the article? He was specifically asked why anyone who is happy with their original Wii should care about the Wii U. Really changes the meaning of what he is saying in that quote there. The article should probably reflect that somehow.

@StephenYap3 I agree with you, it's too soon to buy PS4, for me, because when will have a decent number of JRPGs for PS4? in 2 or 3 years, probably.
I think this is the right time to buy a Wii U.

I'm happy with the Wii U. The altar of the alleged 3rd-party AAA titles seems to be soccer games I find annoying (and I love that sport), films with a few buttons to push, and Call of Duty, which holds no interest for me.

What is it we're allegedly missing again? If I were to get one of the other consoles, it would be for a Forza or GT or something. But then we're back to their exclusives. Don't understand why the AAAs get this exalted status.

All the consoles are hitting a pretty good value point this year. Nintendo seems to still have the best rated exclusives and is approaching its extremely important nostalgia sweet spot with Mario Kart and Smash Bros in the spotlight. Won't matter to many who just don't want those types of games but want what's available on PS4 and XB1. It's a pretty stark difference when you look at the lineup of games.

Nintendo has to work with what it has and it's pretty amazing that it is starting to gain momentum with so little third party support and so few cross platform games. Microsoft and Sony rely on a general purpose machine and a large library of cross platform games and I don't think either could survive on their own exclusives alone.

@Light
Nobody is arguing about the ability of choice and some who are complaining really enjoy their Wii U. The conversation is about the business aspects of Nintendo's operation and how its getting them hammered in the hardware market for consoles. If it wasn't for the continued success of their handheld lines, Nintendo would be forced out of the hardware market like Sega. They continue to struggle with adapting to a new generation of gamers and keep using the same strategy that doesn't work. Most here just want Nintendo to succeed, but Nintendo themselves seems to make it harder for themselves.

@Gridatttack

I enjoyed BOII and Ghosts, but like I said, I started with them, so some of what was tired in those games was new to me. Activision now has three studios developing rotating CoD titles with Sledgehammer joining Infinity Ward and Treyarch, so having three different studios on-hand pretty much guarantees a wealth of changes and differences each year. It looks like Sledgehammer has reinvigorated the franchise.

Still, tired or not, Black Ops II and Ghosts still sold huge piles of software, and were played and enjoyed on all platforms but the 3DS and, I suppose, the Vita (which holds the distinction of having the worst-reviewed CoD of all time).

People love to rip on the franchise, but the Wii U not having the latest title is a painful view of just how badly the console is performing--it didn't even get the game that almost every single other platform received. It's not like it would've been hard to put it on there, just port the X360 version. But the Wii U didn't get an multiplatform-everywhere title that is guaranteed to move millions of copies. That doesn't just make the console look bad. It makes it look dead. And customers walking through Best Buy or Wal-Mart or Target this year are going to notice this discrepency--these other consoles may have a lot of the same games, but that's better than a console that doesn't appear to have much of any.

@aaronsullivan

New technology and new games are vastly more important than nostalgia, otherwise Nintendo would be dominating and Sony and MS would be struggling. Sales don't come from nostalgia, from the old. They come from forward-momentum, from the new.

Nintendo is too over-reliant on nostalgia and keeping the carrot (Zelda) hung in front of their fans. They are failing to innovate or move beyond an increasingly shrinking core audience.

@Vineleaf

This post clearly defines the individual that has no idea what games exist outside of the small Nintendo bubble.

@Yorumi That's fair enough, really. I tend to want to play RPGs on handhelds, though, as they just don't have a lot of couch appeal for me. I'm also not really a film watcher—I don't have cable—so the media centers the other two consoles also try to be just aren't relevant for me.

I like the WiiU because I wanted to play MK8. And I've enjoyed it for months. But if I'm buying another system, it's a Vita, not a console.

@Quorthon

Thanks, I guess. Though I'm in a bubble in general, not a Nintendo-centric one. I will fully own that I'm not up to date on media, etc. I shouldn't be anyone's target market (aside from handhelds). From the people I know and see, however, for them, most games in general are niche aside from the few they know: Call of Duty, FIFA, NHL (I'm in hockey country), and the Nintendo franchises they remember.

@Yorumi To follow up on your nostalgia point, the game I've played most consistently when I have a bit of free time is something from Bit.Trip. That's all Atari-esque nostalgia, and I immensely enjoy it. But if it weren't innovative, there'd be little replay appeal.

I don't agree. Nintendo hardware is weaker than the other consoles. We don't get more value. And we only get 32GB. Not everyone wants to use their HDD from PC on USB or getting an other one. At least on the PS4 and Xbox One those HDD are at leat 10x bigger. However the only thing now I like are the new Mario games and Zelda game. I want to see a lot more games like this!

@Vineleaf

I'm also in a hockey country: Minnesota.

We live in an era of unprecedented variety in our gaming. There are major AAA franchises with annual releases that make the industry look a little bland and devoid of newness from an outsider perspective, the reality is still one of unbridled creativity, variety, growth, and options. I've spent most of my PS4 and Vita time lately plowing through Velocity Ultra and Velocity 2X--unique and energetic shmups. No one rightly can say that any console or platform is all of one thing or boring or lacking variety.

Sadly, the most accurate thing that can be said in this regard is the unfortunately all-too-obvious: Nintendo is lacking major third party, multiplatform releases. There is still quite a variety on the Wii U and 3DS (whoo, The Keep and Fantasy Life!), but on a major retail front, they are falling far behind.

Even the DS had Call of Duty games.

@Quorthon
If Nintendo was making crappy games with no new ideas, I'd agree with you. But they aren't, so I don't. Nostalgia is a strong selling point and I was only commenting on the advantage that Nintendo has in that area. I also mentioned the number of highly rated games as an advantage. There are many other factors besides "new tech", "new games" and "nostalgia" that effect who sells the most. Many.

I personally find the GamePad to be a more significant advance in game technology than what XB1 and PS4 are offering this generation though each have made their own contributions — faster GPUs, processors, and RAM can bring new types of games, but they are byproducts of a larger industry and require little ingenuity or innovation from Microsoft or Sony's entertainment division.

@Alucard83 Use the SD slot and a 64gb SD card. It plugs in here. If that's not enough space then I wish I had your problems.

@Yorumi

My point is more that nostalgia does not drive new sales or expand an audience, but fair enough. Nintendo isn't selling Mario to anyone that hasn't played it before--the same with Zelda and Pokemon. These are not bringing in new customers.

I fear they may have waited far too long to start delivering brand new experiences like Xenoblade, Splatoon, Devil's Third, and Codename STEAM.

Wii U brought many amazing games and I love it for that. But I disagree with him. The sad reality is that the Wii U is going to be only Nintendo games for a long while and that lowers the value of the package. $299 with one game and a DLC doesn't bring much either. $299 with Mario Kart 8 and Smash is one thing, NSMBU+L is another completely different. Either they can bundle the Wii U with better games or lower the price. Xbox One is just $50 more and that's what the consumer is going to see.

@Quorthon Hope you're enjoying the snow as much as we are (just a bit east in the UP).

What's amazing to me—but still unsurprising—is the way gaming now reflects sources of information: each of us can pick our own experience, just like we can with news or the like. If I said I was playing Fantasy Life or Bravely Second or (fingers crossed) Stella Glow, I'm sure my non-video game friends would have no idea what I'm talking about. But we've reached a point now where, unless we make an effort to keep up, we can be playing games each other hasn't heard of. It's remarkable to me, and I love how dynamic the indy scene is. Their creativity gives me a lot of hope.

@aaronsullivan

No, nostalgia is NOT a strong selling point. It is a weak, marginal selling point. It matters far less than having new hardware or games or content or apps. No one buys a new console with the anticipation of living in the past, coasting on nostalgia. If it has that some nostalgic elements, that is a nice bonus, but almost never a primary selling point.

If nostalgia was really that powerful, you'd never buy a new console in the first place, you'd just sit and play those nostalgic games on their original hardware. I'm betting you didn't buy a Wii U with the anticipation of playing Super Metroid or Super Mario Bros. You bought it for new games in those franchises.

Nintendo has also failed to truly show why the GamePad is valuable, and no, it's not a technological leap over anything MS or Sony are doing. It's just taking the ideas of the DS and applying them to a console, and for the most part, it hasn't worked out--outside of Zombi U. Yeah, it's nice to be able to play full games on it every now and then, but this is an HD console, I want to enjoy it in HD--on my TV.

Besides which, clearly, the industry as a whole is comfortable not involving unnecessary gimmicks into gaming anymore. Motion control is dead--a fad never meant to last, and players prefer the standard style controllers offered by MS and Sony, or the keyboard and mouse (which I personally loathe). Sony--at long last--finally updated their controllers to what I feel is the best one of this generation (previously, the X360, and before that, the GameCube were my favorites). Yes, the Wii U offers this same basic controller layout--but that's all the average consumer, gamer, and development studio really want. It's familiar, it's friendly, it's comfortable, it's functional.

On nostalgia, this is also worth a read: http://overdeepgeek.wordpress.com/2014/06/12/chasing-nostalgia/

Nintendo needs to learn marketing. That is their biggest problem. The Cost to upgrade to a Wii U from a Wii is a lot cheaper then to go from an Xbox 360 to an Xbox One or a PS3 to a PS4. Backwards compatibility is the biggest price saving. Everyone else makes you re-buy all new controllers and at $50 a pop that is pricy.

Where is their marketing telling people the benefits of the newer versions. When they released Wii Sports Resort it came with more sports and new modes for existing sports. When I look at Wii Sports Club where is the incentive to buy it. I have Wii Sports Resort. How is Nintendo selling the upgrade?

I know Mario Kart 8 offers new levels and for $12 I can increase my tracks by 50% but I also follow and keep track of these things. Selling Mario Kart is easy. The tracks are the feature. In other software like Wii Fit U an addition of a pedometer is not enough to warrant an upgrade when the old glorified bathroom scale still works on the Wii with the original Wii Fit.

The casual market will not see the difference. When Wii fit came out they set up tents at various locations and demoed the product and show it to people. Once sold is not always sold. They do not always follow youtube channels or twitch. They need to go out there and sell it. I know the 66 year old grandma is not following their twitter feed. Put on the commercial during reruns of "Murder She Wrote".

Nintendo needs to get their marketing together. Education is needed.

@Vineleaf

The heavy snow missed us, but slammed my Dad up north. So we're doing okay--kind of like the Wild.

I also enjoy the variety, and the growing indie market. I just hope the indie market doesn't get flooded by the greedy who just want to, say, churn out lazy Flappy Bird clones while mocking players for buying crap. Some of us are putting actual effort into our indie titles.

Sounds about right to me. As I own a decent gaming PC, I see no reason to waste my money on another next-gen system when the majority of games released for it will see equal or superior quality PC releases as well. The vast majority of the experiences on the Wii U are exclusive to it, though. It was well worth the money.

@Rob_mc_1

Pretty sure I read that Nintendo is cutting marketing spending...

@Quorthon
You said, "My point is more that nostalgia does not drive new sales or expand an audience, but fair enough. Nintendo isn't selling Mario to anyone that hasn't played it before--the same with Zelda and Pokemon. These are not bringing in new customers."

I'd say nostalgia is a huge reason Mario Kart Wii got many parents excited enough to buy it as maybe their second game on the Wii. Now their kids have played it like crazy and that game sold 35 million copies. That's tons of new customers due to nostalgia.

The point of sales is when nostalgia is most important. "Remember playing this all night?" Pick up the new one.

The strongest selling Mario games are the 2D ones that do feel like rehashes (27 million). The more innovative new Mario games like Galaxy sell far less (11.2) On the back of the box, which one looks more like the experience people enjoyed when they were younger?

I've never said that nostalgia is some uber force that no one can compete with, it is only one aspect, but it is a huge one for Nintendo to leverage and it would be a foolish company to ignore it.

Consistently, the best, most critically acclaimed games with have avid gamers that falling in love with them don't necessarily sell well. It's a sad truth for those of us who care, but it's a different discussion than what makes a game or console sell.

@Quorthon I actually find the PS4 controller to be rather awful. Admittedly, I've only used it for a short moment or two within stores, but I find the controller too small and light, and the shoulder buttons flimsy.

The Wii U Gamepad on the other-hand I credit as the best controller of all. It fits perfectly into my hands, with wonderful feeling shoulder buttons. The additional screen I feel has made a big impact with how I experiance a game, the biggest case for this being my time playing through The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker HD. Being able to switch between weapons in the midst of combat or as I sail the seas felt incredibly smooth, and I delighted in using the gyroscope controls of the gamepad for when I often used the camera or grappling hook. Furthermore, off-tv play is a wonderful feature, allowing me to take to playing my games even when my Dad wants to watch TV, or my brothers want to play on the 360 in the front room. Of course, this is a matter of opinion, much like your views on nostalgia, which will differ from that of others.

@aaronsullivan I enjoyed seeing this post, as someone who loves the Wii U Gamepad to bits, it's always nice to see someone giving it the praise it deserves. So thank you.

In a few years, the PS4 and Xbox One might be worth the money.

Right now? They are not worth the money that Sony and Microsoft are asking for. I have not been impressed by either system since they debuted, and I have yet to see anything that changes my opinion.

What does $400 buy you? Two systems that mostly have remixed ports of games that are barely a year old and new games that can be found on the PS3 and Xbox 360.

The PS4's holiday bundle this year is Pathetic. Grand Theft Auto 5 and The Last of Us? Really Sony? A bundle that has two remixed PS3 games? That's the most pathetic thing I have ever seen. Where are the real next-gen games? People think this is worth their money?

Why in the hell would I get a PS4 or Xbox One when I can get games like Mortal Kombat X, Dragon Age Inquisition, Forza Horizon 2, Little Big Planet 3, Destiny, Advanced Warfare, and Titanfall on the PS3 and Xbox 360 that I already own?

This is why I went with the Wii U, it has the games that I can't get anywhere else. Not to mention, if I want to play new games like Mortal Kombat X, i can just pick them up on the PS3.

I'm sure in a few years, the PS4 and Xbox One will be worth the money once the market for PS3 and Xbox 360 dies out, and games like Batman: Arkham Knight, Fallout 5, and Elder Scrolls VI arrives.

But for right now, I consider both of those systems a waste of money, hardware that has yet to impress me. I picked the Wii U and I don't regret my choice at all.

Out of all the 8th gen home consoles, the Wii U is the best value right now.

As someone pointed out, the Wii U has a year head start on it's competition. Do you guys remember what the Wii U was like a year ago? No Mario Kart, Hyrule Warriors, Smash Bros, etc? The reason it sold so badly and no one was running to get a Wii U was because there was no reason too; there were no worthwhile games. If the PS4 and Xbox One released around the same time as the Wii U like it normally does, and it being one year into the cycle like it's competitors, with the Wii U having none of the games that came out this year, this wouldn't even be much of an argument.

Because of his, the same argument applied to Sony and Microsoft, can be applied to Nintendo in it's first year as well. And don't kid yourself, Nintendo's sales a year ago are considerably worse compared to the PS4's and Xbox One's after just one year. We had the same thing happen for the 3ds as well. If I've ever been a fanboy, it was for Nintendo when I was young. However, I really dislike how arrogant Nintendo has become. It's not uncommon for a CEO or COO to say "our product is better", but it's up to the consumer to decide a system's value. Their run to argument is always "we have kart, and we have smash" as well, which are just a handful of games compared to a vast library that is in the works for other consoles, as it's only been a year. They shouldn't talk down to people for liking other things other than Nintendo franchises, or assume that's all consumers want. Sales clearly say differently,

I'm rooting for all consoles to be successful (Though I'm still not quite over what Microsoft did, and still don't see a reason to buy one with a PS4)

Very true Reggie.

Where's the story?

A Nintendo guy pushes a Nintendo product?
Wowowowow! Breaking news!

@Caryslan Indeed, the fact that many of the games that are being released for the PS4 and Xbox One are also available for their predecessors is baffling. It's even stranger when it comes from the console owning companies themselves, I have little to no idea why Sony would make LittleBigPlanet 3 for both PS4 and PS3.

That's a game that would have interested me in getting a PS4, but knowing I can get it on my PS3, there's no need for me to even consider a PS4 for it.

He's right. The Wii U not only has more games than the PS4 and Xbox One, but it has much better games and pretty awesome exclusives. Hopefully I'll be getting my Wii U soon.

They've been saying this for months, how is this news?

Of course it's best value, it's only obvious, offering TWO games.

@Quorthon actually, the only franchise Nintendo is generally guilty of overexposure is Mario. I'll agree, as much as I like Mario Wii U, it probably would have been better to just have released Mario 3D World as a launch title.

More often then not, Nintendo is much more guilty of releasing a single game in a franchise on their console. And yes like other franchises, they rarely deviate from the main line.

I don't think its the same argument of COD vs. Nintendo of sameness, fact-is: Nintendo's whole thing is basically classic style gaming, bright colors, minor plot, and usually a focus on 1-2 mechanics.

COD just happens to be a flag bearer for a GENRE that has overwhelmed an entire console generation. Nothing unique, it happens; the AAA industry has always preferred going with a formula then anything new. And you have smaller indie developers that experiment.

Remember, DOOM started as a shareware game... which was indie at the time.

@Webby-sama Welcome to Nintendolife where there are stories about Nintendo and we are interested in how Nintendo markets its products. Also welcome to a thread that is full of lively discussion making it very odd for you to come in and act as if no one should care.

@Souldin I do like the GamePad and especially your using Wind Waker HD as an example of how it can be used to great effect. I also think Nintendo imagined people really responding to the new game play opportunities from Nintendo Land just from seeing them, but consumers really didn't get it. So much potential shown and so few games really taking advantage yet. Plus, Nintendo has yet to find a way to market it to people in a way that they respond. When I play Nintendo Land with groups and they have an absolute blast though. They get it. (Nintendo Land also has another problem: core gamers think it's too easy to bother with when they first try. They are wrong, but it's a barrier to acceptance.)

On the other hand, I really dislike how easy it is to press the ZL and ZR buttons when just setting it on your lap and I think the shape on the sides could be more ergonomic for your hands. The Wii U Pro controller is much more ideal that way.

He uses the word "Upgrade". I know the Wii u is close to the Wii experience, but I don't thing it's helping people to figure things out. You could say the Ps3 versus the Ps4 is near the same experience but in any way people are gonna say they upgraded to a Ps4. They will be proud to say they step into the next gen, into a totaly new experience, a new level. I think nintendo should embrace that.

all this thinking for a word. I still love nintendo, their games and everything and I just sold my Ps4 for more time to spent on all the great games coming out. I,d like to receive bonus from nintendo for spreading such good words about them.

@rjejr Probably not a chance of cool bundles with newer games until they have their launch first. Nothing seems to be showing up for Black Friday, though, which is too bad.

I really like Nintendo Land as a secondary bundle item, myself: Old maybe, but if you've never played it, it's new to you! But it would be good to put something fresher in there as a bonus. I think they should do some extra promotion if they aren't going to price drop.

Reggie is obviously right here, too bad the corrupt gaming media establishment is basically trying to drive Nintendo out of the console business.

@aaronsullivan

This is a pretty fallacious comment. You have no good reason to magically assume that nostalgia sold 33 million copies of Mario Kart Wii or New Super Mario Bros U. Obviously, the casual focus of the console and the targeted marketing of those titles (including frequent bundling) helped drive sales of those games.

If your comment was true, then Mario Kart 7 and 8 would be coasting on equivalent sales "based on nostalgia." Which is the only metric you have used to attempt to make your point. Heavily fallacious. Especially since no previous Mario Kart came anywhere near the numbers of Mario Kart Wii--how the hell does a game ride on nostalgia to huge numbers of people who have not experienced it?

You have failed to factor in the following:
1. Unprecedented success of the Wii and DS.
2. Heavy promotion and bundling of New Mario and Mario Kart on Wii and DS.
3. The family and party-centric nature of New Mario and Mario Kart Wii which directly target the expanded, casual audience on the platforms.

To whittle that down to nostalgia is highly illogical, fallacious, and flat-out fails to actually explain the sales. Super Mario Galaxy was never sold as a major family/party game, and THAT is the audience that drove sales of the Wii. No wonder these two heavily promoted PARTY-CENTRIC games sold so well.

@Anclation

"Corrupt gaming media establishment."

Yeah, they're in league with "Big Pharma," the "Illuminati" and "Alien Lizard People," and all of them working for the "New World Order" under the guidance of the "Anti-Christ." They meet once a year at "Bilderberg" to talk about how they "insert other asinine and absurd conspiracy theory here."

146 comments about a guy who gets paid by Nintendo, what else is he gonna say!

@Yorumi It's doubful PS4 or Xbox's library will eclipse Nintendo's because the cost of development very few games are coming out in comparison to last generation 360 and PS3.

@bloodycelt

Nintendo clearly intends to maintain Zelda as an annual franchise along with Pokemon. Since 1998, there have only been about three years without a new Zelda--and in several of those years, they released two or three games to make up for it.

They grossly over-use Mario, but also over-use Zelda and Pokemon. I've routinely observed Nintendo fans complain about Call of Duty or Halo being annual, yet blindly ignore Zelda and Pokemon being exactly the same--and Mario is worse.

MS is pretty bad at cramming too much Halo out there, but at least there aren't Halo Karts, Paper Master Chief, Master Chief & Arbiter Super Star Sagas, Master Chief vs Arbiter: March of the Mini-Chiefs, Super Halo Soccer, Super Halo Baseball, Halo Hoops, or Halo Party.

These things don't sell Nintendo hardware to new audiences. It only convinces new audiences that Nintendo has no variety and nothing different to offer. Just a whole bunch of Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon.

@WWammy

You're already wrong.

In two years, the Wii U has garnered 457 known and announced games. In half that time, the XBO has over 300 known and announced games.

The XBO and PS4 will each eclipse the Wii U before May.

Remember, these consoles have several multiplatform titles every month--the Wii U has almost none. And Nintendo does not have the money or resources to fill the console by themselves.

The Wii-U has Nintendo exclusives and plenty of 3rd party support in the form of indie.

With regards to the Xbo and PS4 I don't see the tripple A games being pushed the same way as we have seen previously.

Also 300 games announced doesn't mean they will all come out I mean look at the last year between 5 and 10 tripple A releases and many of them just ports of old games.

The Nintendo has real exclusives where the PS4 and Xbox will have games that are available on either platform.

You can't get that Nintendo experience on any other console.
But the PS4 and Xbox one are practically identical and even then you can get a better experience on the PC

I agree with Reggie's intent to sound bullish to investors. I disagree with him that the Wii U presents the best value in new home consoles.

@Yorumi Indie is 3rd party support and where the latest innovations in gaming are taking place.
Before there was no word called indie everyone was just a developer back in the days of bedroom coding.

However my point is the cost of developing triple A games has now had an impact on new games being released it either is a hit of the software house could go under and software houses just aren't making those triple A games at the rate they used to because it's a big risk.
All of the variety that used to be at retail is still last generation and the gap is being filled by indie games between those 5 - 10 retail releases that were actually not sports games

Just look at Capcom a one time big player hasn't released their latest game Ultra Street fighter IV on the PS4 or Xbo because it can't afford to make mistakes otherwise they could face bankruptcy as others have.

I'd be extremely surprised if this generation manages to pick up pace the same way the last generation did

It's usually the way that 3rd party games are multiplat and 1st party games are exclusives so if the indie games are not exclusive then no big deal to be honest.

@Quorthon @XFsWorld I have a PS3 and have had PS Plus in the past. Totally love the concept of free games each month. There's usually 1 or 2 games that peak my interest. I just don't understand how devs like that concept. I mean why would you ever buy a game on PS4 knowing it will be free down the road? But I'd say out of the free games I got during those times, I'd say only 2 or 3 I really enjoyed. I expect As Credd Unity to be free by March. Games that do bad critically almost always end up on PS+.

He's right i have way too many retail and eshop games than one would need. Soon people would realize that Wii U is where the games are. Why do you think Wii sold so much?

@Quorthon
I suppose I don't notice Zelda as much because if I need a platformer game and there is no new Mario, I usually have the choice of a few other titles that came out recently. Hence I feel oversaturated by Mario games.

Zelda on the other hand, if you ignore the side games and remakes, you get 1-2 games per console. And for someone that doesn't like the portable zeldas, I generally have to wait 3 years for the next Zelda, with almost nothing out there like it in-between.

And yes they need new franchises, for genres they are weak in, probably just need to buy a few more american studios. And they need to bring over Fatal Frame.

PS4/Xbone = Same System = Current Gen.5

@Yorumi
You are also failing to understand my point regardless of how many dev's the other consoles have their libraries won't be unique.
They will be available on both the XBO, PS4 and PC.
Only Nintendo will have Nintendo games and those that want something else to play other than Nintendo games then Indie is doing a good job of filling the gap.

When something comes out worth playing on the new consoles will decide then if the other consoles library eclipses Nintendo's but for now Wii-U is the best of the next gen and the only console so far that enticed me to make a purchase.

@XCWarrior Well luckily I've only ran past one game that was free that I paid for since being a Plus member. And that is PS Battle Royale. I'm very thankful for Plus because it could have just been a service to just play games online.

When this guy is eventually let go by Nintendo, and it will likely happen sooner than later, he will never assume such a high profile position with a video game company ever again. And with good reason.

@Yorumi This is to do with the kind of games you like to play now personally Dragon Age or any of the western RPG's are not my kind of game.
Also that game is available on the PS3, Xbox360, PC so if I did want to play that I can spend £39.00 pounds instead of £349 to buy that console PS4 or 360

For me I'd rather play any Zelda in comparison to those games and I personally love 2d games I'm mostly retro either way.

Everything else in the industry ? What else is there ?

Btw one of the most successful games out now is Minecraft which started out as indie.

But this isn't about the games library being eclipsed I think more likely it's to do with the library being eclipsed in your opinion.

In my opinion I love the library on the Wii-U which is exclusive unlike the other consoles everything they have is released absolutely everywhere regardless of the volume.
Also if I want the best experience of those games the PC is better much better even on mid range hardware.
My pc is about 4 years old i3 with a GTX 460 and it can do 1080p 60fps the new consoles can barely get upto 1080p and if they do the frame rate suffers.

I stand with my statement the Wii-U is best this generation so far

@aaronsullivan or whatever it was.

Nobody should care. Thanks for welcoming me even late as it is.

@Yorumi The games you mentioned are all out on the old consoles PS3

I'm not talking about individual games BTW I'm talking about who are the other developers the big players these days ?

Namco, EA, Ubisoft, Konami, Bethesda, Rock Steady, Sega, who else ?

You seem to be mixing your argument by saying the old console library is a plus for the new consoles.
If they just rehash the same game as they often do I don't see it as a plus either way.

I have to disagree that Nintendo games are just rehashes this generation they have changed it up a lot in comparison to other games.

I would say the other games are more rehashed like COD, the Tales series, Fifa, and of course HD Remasters and definitive editions.

Guys should I get a Wii U? I'm trying to decide if I should get it over a PS3 or Xbox 360?

@hikingmudkip6 If you just want to play third party games get the PS3 or the Xbox 360.But if you want to just play exclusives that are from Nintendo then the Wiiu is the way to go.But that's just me.

@Yorumi @WWammy
o.0 I should point out, the good JRPGs are still being released on the PS3, so its not much incentive to get either a PS4 or WiiU. (Though after the $200 for the cart, adapters, working SNES it may be cheaper to get a WiiU to play Earthbound then to get the SNES cart, unless you already have some or all the required assembly).

Right now PS4 and XBONE are good buys for FPS gamers, and the choice depends on the network your friends are on.

Everyone else are hanging on to their PS3s, and getting a WiiU if the like platformers, Smashies, and Mario Kart. Though I suspect the Zelda and Metroid crowd are still hanging on to their Wiis waiting on Nintendo.

While I don't expect them to, if Nintendo managed to make a Bioshock/Last of Us caliber plot for a new HD FPS starring Samus Aran... that might help but here is a list to remind you that good games are not what gets a console sold.

Bonk
Ys I & II
R-Type
Soldier Blade
Ninja Spirit
Popfull Mail
Lunar
Sonic CD
Metal Slug
D
Bomberman
Street Fighter vs. X-Men
Die Hard Trilogy
Panzer Dragoon Saga
Burning Rangers
Nights
Guardian Heroes
Ikaruga
Shenmue
Skies of Arcadia
Soul Calibur
Chu Chu Rocket
Crazy Taxi
Space Channel 5
NFL 2K2
Resident Evil: Code Veronica

@XCWarrior - "I mean why would you ever buy a game on PS4 knowing it will be free down the road?"

In case that was't a rhetorical question - online multiplayer of yearly releases. CoD, Madden, MLB The Show - if you don't buy these when they come out you miss all the online fun. Which is why these games have yearly releases. Can't wait around for Destiny or Ttinafall to be free.

As for why devs give their games away for free, I think the simple answer is - they don't. Sony pays them something for their games. I think I read Sony has 8mil PS+ users. At $50 per person/yr that's $400,000,000.00 so they can probably spare a mil here or there for some of those cheap indie games. Also, I've noticed a definite trend of giving away games w/ lots of DLC - PSASBR for instance. Give away an old game that nobody is interested in anymore, get people to buy the DLC.

@aaronsullivan - Guess I can't argue w/ Nintnedo Land being in the box, it does show off the Gamepad and Pikmin and Link are good, but it's more of a throwaway than a real game to advertise. It should be in the box, but if people wanted that game they could have purchased the Wii U 2 years ago. I think you have to sacrifice a few separate SSBU sales to sell the console at this pint. Selling Wii U has to be the #1 priority. If Wii U doesn't sell games dont' sell, Gamecube controllers and adapters don't sell. amiibo will sell b/c half of those are never getting unboxed anyway except to put in a display case.

And they need more actual "special ed" bundles, WW HD had the nice Gamepad design but I'm thinking more like this:

http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-360-Limited-Kinect-Star-Bundle/dp/B0050SY300/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1416360545&sr=8-1&keywords=xbox+360+r2d2&pebp=1416360538166

Something that will get Wii U noticed and not look like a Wii. Heck the Wii Mini has a more interesting design than Wii U.

http://www.amazon.com/Wii-Mini-Red-Mario-Kart-Nintendo/dp/B00OBM7934/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1416360661&sr=8-6&keywords=wii+mini

ITT: Autism.

@Yorumi
That's the point, even if they had killer games that would still not help them. It didn't help Sega or NEC. It didn't even help Nintendo during the N64 and Gamecube eras. (I do think Mario 3D World is a killer game however).

The WiiU would not have succeeded if it was the most powerful of the three.
It would not have succeeded if Nintendo actually marketed it.
It would not have succeeded if it still had 3rd part support.

Nothing Nintendo could have done or can do will make this console succeed.

Barring, making a subsidiary like Touchstone, and releasing their console under a new brand.

I'm not trolling here, I'm quite fond of Nintendo games, and am satisfied with the WiiU. But I'm well aware or reality. Among "hardcore" gamers, your console choice is how your status is determined, its about brand, just like clothing, just like music.

@Quorthon
I don't want this to get needlessly argumentative, but here's a couple thoughts:

You concluded your last response with "“To whittle that down to nostalgia is highly illogical, fallacious, and flat-out fails to actually explain the sales”" as if I was trying to say all of the success of those games was from nostalgia alone which I never set out to do or even suggested. From the beginning I've only asserted that nostalgia is a significant factor in sales (by suggesting that Nintendo is at a good point with Wii U in that regard this Holiday season).

I read some of that blog post you referenced about nostalgia, but are you overthinking it? I'm talking about the simple trigger: "I remember playing those old Nintendo games and I enjoyed that" that leads to "let's try this new version". Not a deep attempt to relive past moments in life. Maybe that's our real point of separation in all this.

You mentioned 3 factors to discount what I was suggesting, but this is too long already and the 3rd was the only one I found substantial.

Your third factor is significant in that New Super Mario Bros Wii's success is at least partly due to its more "party-centric" nature, but that doesn't explain the success of its DS predecessor.

New Super Mario Bros. DS made 29 million in sales without being “party centric”. In fact, it was the first new 2D scrolling Mario in many years and was a standout because it held so closely to the original. In an effort to get a snapshot of reactions from the time here are quotes from reviews on Metacritic: “The first new 2D Mario platformer since Super Mario World has arrived “, “redoes the past”, “keep the game from feeling like too much of a retread”, “a nice homage to the Mario series, but it's not Mario's big return to 2D gameplay like everyone thought it would be.”, “A great return towards 2d platforming for Mario”, “Old school action”

Was nostalgia really not a factor in this game selling so well?

Acknowledging that you think Nintendo is wrong to rely on nostalgia, you still have to admit Nintendo has far better information about who is buying and playing their games. Iwata recently came up with a “same generation hypothesis” based on the data Nintendo has collected and attributes the high sales of Pokemon and Smash Bros to people who played these games in their childhood and want to keep returning to that experience: nostalgia.
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2014/10/iwata_cites_same_generation_hypothesis_for_strong_smash_bros_and_pokemon_performance

@rjejr I was thinking more long term satisfaction, but from a marketing standpoint to get more Wii U consoles in the hands of players, you are right Nintendo Land really doesn't work as a title on the cover of the box.

It's true that those teetering on buying a Wii U are going to be much more satisfied if the obvious big games are in the bundle: Super Smash Bros. or Mario Kart. If there was only one, my vote is for a Mario Kart bundle. It even has DLC to help offset the loss of individual sales.

Can't say I like the looks of that Star Wars bundle, though. To me it looks like a bad game in a console design that can't fit in anywhere. :/ Guess I like more subtlety.

@Yorumi
3DS sells because of pokemon, because pokemon is cool with elementary school kids. And parents are more likely to buy a 3DS for their kid to get him/her to shut up, then a console just for the kid that takes up time away from mom and dad fragging time.

And I'm also a old school gamer. This entire decade has been like watching your childhood friends shoot up and kill themselves in the slowest manner possible.

What do you really expect Reggie to say? Whether it's true or not he's going to promote Nintendo products over the competition.

@Yorumi I really don't understand that though. Others are just as guilty of doing that too. So they should add other Nintendo characters and call it Nintendo kart and call it a day?

@Yorumi

"you mean like mm3d, oot3d, starfox 64 3d, wwhd, dkc returns 3d, xenoblade 3d? OOT the game they've rereelased like 4 times?"
"And seriously tales is more rehashed than freaken mario kart or nsmb? Oh give me a break that's utterly insane. "

I'm not blind to Nintendo I think NSMB is poopoodoodoocacapoopledoople next to the classic Mario games and I hate that it keeps getting rereleased with the same art style and music despite that the levels are new.

Mario Kart on the other hand has had a massive evolution in the series since the first game on the SNES.
If they were not named the same with the same characters they would be completely different games.
The latest one added a lot to the kart genre it's not the exact same game take Mario Kart SNES vs Mario Kart Wii-U absolutely mega different.

The Tales games being RPG's the gameplay is near enough the same in all of them. I like the stories but I have never been a fan of the combat in them I tolerate it to see the rest of the games story when I do play.

Also be fair the new consoles that have HD remasters the games were only released last generation where Nintendo fans have been crying for remakes
With the exception of fans had to wait around 2 generations of consoles
N64 > Gamecube > Wii > Finally 3DS before they could play
before they played remakes of "mm3d, oot3d, starfox 64 3d" games which I say added a whole lot to the games than just a resolution bump

wwhd < It last came out on the Gamecube skipping the Wii and it was another game that bought new things to the table with the tablet control maps and small changes in game to fix some of the old complaints like the slow wind speed

dkc returns 3d, xenoblade 3d these games were on the console where a lot of people owned the Wii but didn't buy a lot of the games however on the 3DS the case is different the attach rate is higher but with that said out of the list you gave these two games would be the only real HD remaster type games because they were only released last generation

@bloodycelt
"o.0 I should point out, the good JRPGs are still being released on the PS3, so its not much incentive to get either a PS4 or WiiU. (Though after the $200 for the cart, adapters, working SNES it may be cheaper to get a WiiU to play Earthbound then to get the SNES cart, unless you already have some or all the required assembly).

Right now PS4 and XBONE are good buys for FPS gamers, and the choice depends on the network your friends are on.

Everyone else are hanging on to their PS3s, and getting a WiiU if the like platformers, Smashies, and Mario Kart. Though I suspect the Zelda and Metroid crowd are still hanging on to their Wiis waiting on Nintendo.

While I don't expect them to, if Nintendo managed to make a Bioshock/Last of Us caliber plot for a new HD FPS starring Samus Aran... that might help but here is a list to remind you that good games are not what gets a console sold."

I agree with you bloodycelt if RPG's are your type of game then the PS3 is the way to go and good games are not what gets a console sold I also agree
that would be marketing that gets them sold even if they are rubbish

I have just bought a PS3 recently because I had a 360/Wii last gen so will be picking up PS3 exclusives

Well Reggie has to say this doesn't he? I like the Wii-U, but in terms of "bang for yer buck" it could be a whole lot better and Nintendo really could have done a lot more to market the system. More units sold means more publisher/developer interest, means more games, means potentially better value for us. The only saving grace for Wii-U (other than the solid exclusives) is the fact that games are largely shipped in complete form and are free of season passes and patches as big as the game's themselves.

@aaronsullivan I absolutely agree, nostalgia sells.

@Caryslan The Last of US and GTAV remastered may be old and worthless to you, but not to a whole lot of other people who have yet to play them and what better way to enjoy those excellent games than in remastered form? I am not saying your point of view is wrong, I'm just saying value is subjective and to many people PS4 and X1 are worth the money. I am however in agreement with you on Sony's exclusive offerings being a let down. Prior to launch they promised 100 exclusive titles within 12 months of system launch...where the hell are these titles?

Only one console does three things that people tend to harp about the other consoles not doing.

Most major releases are 1080p/60FPS.

Offline multiplayer.

Backwards compatibility with the previous generation.

Best value to consumers? No. The average consumer wants to play all the big third party multiplats that aren't coming to Wii U. Best value for Nintendo fans? Yes.

I can tell you now Reggie my PS4 represents much better value than my Wii U has done. Let's see...

Wii U - £350 - 5 games - 2 years
PS4 - £399 - 20+ games - 1 year

I'm not sure if I'm just getting too old but most stuff Nintendo does these days just doesn't appeal to me much which has never been the case before. I mean Amiibo looks shallow and a cash-grab for example (great for collectors though). Where's Metroid Prime 4? Zelda? Excitebike? Wave Race? Pilotwings and all other classic franchises?

I also agree with Reggie, same reason I bought the Wii U. Better value for my money. I was expecting good jrpgs on the PS4 like with the PS3 but they have none so far, X1 seems to have a better lineup with regards to exclusives but so far only Sunset Overdrive entices me and that's it. PS4 games give me no interest for now even with the sale because I can get most of their games on PC that has a lower price on Steam and gets free online, I'm skipping PS4's remastered titles since I have the PS3 and I don't want to waste my money playing the same game with graphic and minor enhancements.

I do agree that the system is great value for money but it is not the system to buy if you are only going to get one system.

The Wii U to me would have to be your second system. Sure it has great first and second party games that are better then the other systems but the lack of Third Party support is what makes the difference.

@Phil_Kavadias ??? The Wii U isn't exactly blessed with third party support. It's basically a first party machine. How is that appealing to a non Nintendo fan? The Wii U is a Nintendo fan machine(great for me, I am one) but it's not going to be a mainstream success, it's just not.

@aaronsullivan

I said nostalgia is marginal. Again, the DS had ridiculously high sales, New Super Mario Bros was HEAVILY promoted and a pack-in game, or included with purchases of the system several times over.

Nostalgia was far less important to the sales of this game than the very fact that the console it's on dominating sales charts for an entire generation.

You're putting too much emphasis on nostalgia, and if nostalgia was really so important, then we'd be seeing equivalent numbers on the 3DS and Wii U, and they aren't even close.

YOU CANNOT TAKE SALES OF GAMES ON THE DS OR WII TO BACK UP YOUR POINT, merely because these consoles are high sales flukes, ESPECIALLY for Nintendo. The original NES sold 61 million units, the SNES about 45 million, the N64 35 million, and the GameCube 21 million. The Wii sold 100 and the DS 153 million. The high sales of these consoles has way, way, way more to do with the sales of these games nostalgia. There simply aren't enough customers in the past to be targeted for that nostalgia. Not everyone who owned an NES had or liked Super Mario Bros. The high sales you keep bringing up for a few of these games are due far more to being on platforms that have high sales.

On a personal note, I don't find the games nostalgic--I find them to be derivatives. Nintendo attempting to cling to the past, but not really delivering what actually made these games so memorable in the first place. Super Mario Bros 3 and Mario World were memorable because they were so impressive, new, and fresh.

And again, Nintendo clinging to nostalgia does not help them sell to anyone outside of the core Nintendo fan, because then they have nothing to offer beyond desperate attempts to cling to dusty memories. And frankly, there has never been anything since Super Mario World that evokes nostalgia for it. The Boo houses, the castles, the level design--there hasn't been a single Super Mario game that comes close. Mario 64 and Galaxy, thankfully, forged their own paths giving them their own feel and style, but everything else just feels like it's trying to be another lame attempt to clone and slightly update Super Mario Bros 1.

I never said nostalgia doesn't factor in--only that it is a minority element, and that it isn't smart to make this a focus. Nintendo may feel like they can bank on this, but sales of the Wii U and 3DS clearly show that they can't. Also, think about this--why are the NES and SNES so memorable? Why are they such nostalgia-drivers? Because they were fresh and new--they had bold new concepts and ideas, they delivered games and content that hadn't been seen before. THAT is precisely WHY people have nostalgia for them, and the reasons that the NES and SNES sold well are the exact same reasons the XBO and PS4 are selling now--and also the reasons the Wii U is NOT.

I would prefer to have nostalgia FOR the Wii U some years from now, but if all it's going to be is a petty nostalgia box, then it will be forgotten. You know why people keep bringing up all this GameCube love? Because it also delivered so many fresh experiences--Eternal Darkness, Resident Evil, Luigi, Metroid, Star Wars, Pikmin, Smash Bros Melee, Viewtiful Joe, Baiten Katos, Sonic Adventure, F-Zero, and on and on and on. NEW games, NEW ideas, forward-looking design (for the most part). It didn't cling to the past, and it remains my second favorite Nintendo platform, right behind the SNES.

for my personal tastes wiiU has always seemed better value than PS4 or xbone. Not only is it cheaper than them but it has more of the types of games I am interested in playing. Earlier in the year when I was evaluating if a wind waker bundle was worth importing from europe it was games like Mario kart, 3D world, Bayonetta 2, Xenoblade and smash bros that sealed the deal. The proliferation of PS360 ports from when the wiiU first came out wasn't a problem for me as I never bothered to get a 360 or PS3 so I've snapped up a few of the highly rated ones that I were available at knockdown prices. And some day I will get around to playing them. Currently Mario Kart 8 has got me hooked and when I get smash bros I suspect it will be a similar story. So with the limited time that I dedicate to playing games my wiiU can keep me going for a long time before the games I own become stale. This is why I only buy one home console per gen. Even though I could buy all 3 if I wanted the other 2 don't have any game in particular that brings out that "must have" feeling in me.

Perhaps if Capcom's 8th gen SF game is cel shaded like guilty gear Xrd with fluid animations and crisp gameplay like alpha 3 had I would be tempted but the chances of Capcom doing something like that seem microscopic. They'll likely just make SF V and it'll be just like SF IV but with slightly improved graphics and little more.

@Yorumi
"you're just showing the classic double standard. "Remasters are bad unless nintendo does them, it's find when MK's gameplay barely changes over 20 years but when an rpg completely overhauls the entire battle and level up system it's just a rehash."

Haha absolute rubbish @ barely changed over the last 20 years it has changed a lot and each one could be considered a different game if it wasn't for the Mario graphics.

You are showing your bias for the Tales series the combat system the basic principle of it is the same that it's real time combat you have your turn and then you mash some buttons and then it's the next players turn in your team win the battle
While there are a lot of people that like this and keeping familiar elements is no bad thing because if it didn't it wouldn't be a Tales game of course appeals to fans of Tales games like yourself.

Also HD Remasters in themselves are not wrong regardless of which company does it and I've outlined why the other ones are not bad in themselves but if a game like Tomb Raider that was quite a recent last gen release gets released again as a HD Remaster or definitive edition I call that a rehash.
It's a game wanted or no one asked for but on the opposite end of the scale the God of war collection was a fantastic bargain releasing God of War 1 + 2 in HD 60fps that's what I call good remaster but that as for the PS3.

Also the Wii-U has backwards compatibility I seriously hate this trend of releasing the exact same game again I mean if you are one of those that never played the older game I guess it suits you but for me I don't wanna replay the exact same game, an improved sequel would be different though.

You also said earlier about "massive games" like "Dragon Age" to be honest as I'm working these days I don't have the time to play massive games, the Nintendo library suits me fine.

But there again if you like that sort of game they are available everywhere PC,XBox360,PS3, PS4, XBO where Nintendo wins out you can only play Nintendo games on the Nintendo console and it just so happens they also have the best games this generation IMO

I also disagree that "There's nothing truly special or amazing about nsmb, dkc, 3dworld, mk, or even smash."

These games are pure gameplay unlike a lot of the new games which are story driven these games are special through their addictive gameplay

PS could you name some of the developers in the rest of the industry so far I can only think of
Namco, EA, Ubisoft, Konami, Bethesda, Rock Steady, Sega, who else ?

why do i have to scroll all the to bottom just to write a comment

@aaronsullivan - I forgot about the MK8 DLC. That's an extra $12 for them. And considering the way the menus are laid out now people are likely to pay that $12. A couple of months back I was actually advocating MK8 2.0 as a re-release w/ the patch in the box and amiibo on the back cover. As it's up to version 3.0 now that's even more reason to rebox and rebrand it. Though I suppose waiting until next holiday when they can add the DLC into the box makes more sense.

Plus it has that amiibo + support right on the front screen so more advertising for amiibo. That's 2 good reasons to have it in the box instead of SM3DW. And SSBU is far from finished - so much patching yet to do, that should get a re-release when it's actually finished next year as well w/ a picture of Mewtwo on the box.

And yeah that R2D2 Xbox360 was weird, but I know that you know what I mean. Wal-mart is pushing the MK8 bundle as an exclusive but I'ld still like to see a bigger push for the holidays. Last year they had the white SKylanders Swap-force bundle, not sure they have that this year. Maybe Sports Club and Wii Fit U and Nintnedo Land w/ a Wiimote Plus?

Maybe they can give away a free Wii Mini w/ a Wii U? Right @ryno

http://www.walmart.com/cp/Nintendo-Wii-U-Wii/1098124

Well at least Walmart is putting together a Wii U SSBU bundle w/ amiibo and controller, they know what their customers want:

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Nintendo-Wii-U-Super-Smash-Bros-Mega-Bundle-with-Extra-Fight-Pad-Controller-and-Choice-of-Amiibo-Character/40712767

Glad I bought mine last year.

@Yorumi

"You're joking right? This is so dishonest it borders on trolling. You don't take turns in a tales game, it's a arpg. You can freely attack, defend, dodge, and cast spells whenever you want. You have to watch enemies and look for openings to attack, dodge attacks from multiple directions at once, figure out when you have enough time to cast a spell without getting interrupted. The game's are less of button masher than smash is."

Not trolling it has been my experience that while you can do all of those things.
In the end the combat felt repetitive and boring I just ended up button mashing and wanting to beat the battles as quickly as possible to see the next story segment.

If you enjoyed the combat system that's upto you but I'm personally not a fan of it

You are right but it was Tales I just haven't played it for a while so I forgot the terminology to describe it.

It was Tales of Symphonia that I played I don't know where that ranks but the combat got boring and I'm not alone in describing the combat in Tales games as repetitive

@Quorthon
"YOU CANNOT TAKE SALES OF GAMES ON THE DS OR WII TO BACK UP YOUR POINT" Why not? The games I am pointing out are stand outs among their peers sold on the same system. They aren't just high they are high compared to other games on the same console. These games double and triple the sales of most other games including similar themed ones. (especially when you leave out launch pack-ins)

"Not everyone who owned an NES had or liked Super Mario Bros." 40 million had it, at least. Kind of a big number now but even more impressive back then.

So here we are in 2014, and the #1 Wii U game is New Super Mario Bros. U. (Yes, it's a pack-in now, but like most post-launch pack-ins it's there as an extra incentive to buy the console because its independently desirable. People have options of what pack-in game they want after the initial launch game so I don't think that diminishes the importance of it being a top seller. But if you'd like to take 1/4 of the sales off to compensate it is still the top seller)

New and fresh doesn't translate into sales as much as it seems both of us would prefer it too. If Nintendo were to ignore the characters and games that create a nostalgic yearning in their customers they'd be going out of business much faster, imo.

I don't think it should be a primary focus or driver for what they create, but here is where I think you differ from my opinion at least:
I don't see Nintendo using nostalgia as a crutch. I see new ideas, new technologies and new approaches to gameplay. They have been inventive and daring like no other game developer I can think of (save indies). It is a business so they revisit past games, but are always trying to avoid repeating themselves by taking a new angle or core game play mechanic.

I don't think relying mostly on nostalgia is a way to do business but leveraging it while continuing to make new and interesting games can certainly help in significant ways. Nintendo could be doing much better but ignoring the effect of nostalgia wouldn't do anyone any good.

Lol you are funny I said you are right and there you are telling me it's not turn based.

Can see the example but you didn't demonstrate the difference to me that looks the same as Symphonia in the battle style.

Told you before if that floats your boat keep playing but it's samey to me.

@aaronsullivan

You can't use those because the bulk of your argument relies on those games selling largely because of NOSTALGIA, which is next to impossible given that Nintendo never had the audience in the past to create the nostalgia to sell the numbers that New Mario Wii or Mario Kart Wii sold. Clearly, those games sold those high numbers for reasons other than nostalgia, that, as I illustrated, nostalgia was a MINOR reason for their sales, a minority reason. They sold higher because of clear advertising, strong marketing (sales people ALWAYS recommend the Mario games to confused parents, except when I did it, I led them to Kirby), holiday bundles, and generous pack-ins.

Suffice to say, you cannot sell higher numbers of something based on nostalgia. If I sold a game that had a million sales, then years down the road, the (highly unrealistic) best I can hope for to bank on that nostalgia is another million in sales for the revival years later--certainly not 33 million for Mario Kart Wii. It's safe to say that, logically, nostalgia had almost nothing to do with the sales of that game.

You claim that leveraging nostalgia with new ideas can help sell moving forward. Well, I'm afraid that Microsoft and Sony are proving you wrong on this front--neither of their new consoles are leveraging any amount of nostalgia for a distant past, and they're both grossly outselling the Wii U AND the 3DS.

I know, it's the internet, you don't want to admit you're wrong despite no one ever seeing your embarrassment (which you shouldn't have when learning), but based on sales, market share, market placement, and future outlooks, MS, Sony, and Nintendo are showing you as wrong. Nostalgia isn't important for sales, as MS and Sony have shown--people don't buy new hardware to live in the past, but to experience the future. And while nostalgia may have helped Nintendo at times, it is indeed quite a crutch now and they are VERY FREQUENTLY charged with living in the past, clinging to the same very old franchises, and failing to evolve with the rest of the industry. They are not the technological leaders they were with the SNES or N64. And whenever Nintendo focuses on nostalgia, they fail to actually do something to reach out to new audiences.

Nostalgia did not sell the Wii. Wii Sports did--as it was seen as very futuristic at the time--something exciting. Something new. Hell, even the nostalgia-train Virtual Console seems like an afterthought these days offering little in the way of "oh man, I remember that game! Rad!" One game a week, and too many of them are NES games that were barely playable in the 80's. Donkey Kong Jr. Math, anyone? "Radical."

@Quorthon
Nothing you have said has convinced me that nostalgia didn't play a large role in the sales of those games. My reasons are there and they stand.

"You can't use those because the bulk of your argument relies on those games selling largely because of NOSTALGIA, which is next to impossible given that Nintendo never had the audience in the past to create the nostalgia to sell the numbers that New Mario Wii or Mario Kart Wii sold." See this is the problem with not backing up anything you are saying with data: 40 million original NES Mario games, 27 million New Super Mario Bros. Wii games.

As far as Mario Kart goes, I guess only 10 million or so owned it back in the day so your logic is that nostalgia couldn't have accounted for a significant amount of the 33 million sales on Wii. Well, first of all, 10 million is close to 1/3 of 33 million and I consider that significant.

Second, as you pointed out, Mario Kart is a "party" game which means for each sold Mario Kart game you have multiple "kids" playing one copy. These kids grow up and get disposable income, they also make game-purchasing decisions for their own kids. And as these games are often played with friends that nostalgia-induced purchase now leads to others discovering where this happy memory originated.

Nostalgia plays a role in all of this, but you seem to want to ignore it.

Just because other consoles have been successful doesn't discount the power of nostalgia in sales. Do you think Microsoft is going to ignore those kids who cut their multiplayer FPS teeth on Halo? They don't seem to be at the moment, celebrating the entire series in a giant HD collection.

"sales people ALWAYS recommend the Mario games to confused parents" could that be because a significant number of them remember playing Mario and the sales people rely on that?

You seem convinced enough and I'm happy to strongly disagree to what extent nostalgia plays a role in sales. No evidence you've brought up is especially convincing to me.

If you want to argue that Nostalgia is just an impetus that doesn't increase sales without a core additional attraction, I'd side with you there. The issue is that it is still an impetus and exactly what is needed in marketing and something Nintendo should leverage.

We seem to agree, also, that it would all be fruitless if that nostalgia was detached from the actual experience of the game. With Nintendo I find the opposite true. Every time I go back to some of these old Nintendo classics (the actual originals) I find I'm making new special memories. Part of it is because I'm sharing it with my kids, but I also see how they respond to the games themselves.

@aaronsullivan

Well, then, clearly I am not going to convince you of anything any more than I am going to teach you to use reason and analysis over knee-jerk reactions or vaguely defined feelings.

At the end of this, you have failed to prove your case or reasoning, you cannot factor for why that magical nostalgia isn't working now, and I have explained my point rather bluntly using reason, currently known facts, and analysis. Your end argument does not match the known facts, and indeed, ignores them altogether or acts like they don't matter. The Wii did not sell based on nostalgia. And neither did Mario Kart Wii.

That you cannot be convinced is more your problem--when presented with new data, I change my stance as my heroes in science would do. I have given you facts and analysis, and pointed the holes in your argument. You essentially responded with, "I'm not convinced. Nostalgia is the primary motivator in sales regardless of the facts." Regardless of you not being convinced, the information we have supports my hypothesis, not yours.

Pity.

By the way, your comment to mine about sales people recommending Mario smacks of the kind of logic that we see in Ancient Aliens shows. "Look at these big structures! Could it be a place where ancient aliens mined for gold and were worshiped by people as super gold bird magic people?!" Ha, no, those sales people aren't recommending Mario to confused parents because of nostalgia--that's an absurd stretch, especially considering how many of them don't care about Nintendo (hint: a lot of them), it's because recommending Mario is LAZY and EASY. "Just recommend Mario, people have heard of it or whatever." "Ok."

@Yorumi
The awareness of the Wii was kickstarted by WiiSports. The Wii U has had no such kickstart, but is pulling itself out of the muck on Mario Kart alone (almost).

Seriously, the combination of E3 and Mario Kart made a seismic shift in opinion on the internet at least. I agree with @Quorthon that you could never make sales on nostalgia alone. There needs to be a promise of fulfilling what you remember to some degree.

Nintendo Land had the characters but the game play was unrecognizable. (man, do I personally love that game, though.)

Plus, you need to convince people to make the jump into a large purchase with a new console before games start getting purchased. It was easy for it all to play out on the Wii once "everyone" owned one.

@Quorthon
So... you are claiming to use reason and analysis yet you won't even fairly characterize my stance. Instead, you throw up a straw man summing up my stance as "Nostalgia is the primary motivator in sales regardless of the facts."

Show me where I suggest that Nostalgia is the primary motivator. I only said it was significant and I believe extremely important for Nintendo at this time.

I did not start this as a thesis with all supporting facts listed but went with my experience and observations over decades in the context of a casual discussion in these comments.

Being challenged I have looked into facts and supporting evidence and found it to support what I claimed.

There's certainly nuance to what we are discussing and there's plenty of room for misunderstanding in just what we specifically meant by nostalgia, for instance. (In internet discussions I find those types of semantics to be at the core of disagreements as we don't know each other or have any expressions to read on each other's faces.)

As far as following your heroes of science: neither of us has the data necessary to make very dramatic claims. Sales alone are only suggestions and we can distill them by factoring in the platform they were on and how they compared to other games on the platform and what other perceived factors were involved but we'd need much more relevant data to make anything very conclusive. Nintendo has much more of that data, so maybe we should listen to Iwata's theory — but only if it bears out in the coming months!

@Yorumi
"What happened to the original 10mil MK fans you were using, let alone the 30 mil from the wii. "
A good deal of them are still playing Mario Kart on their Wii? I know of some personally. Never argued that nostalgia was more than an extremely important element in sales. Something I only had a pretty good notion of, but through testing it out, feel even more strongly about.

Why is the litmus test that nostalgia has to compel people to automatically buy a new console and game as if there were no other factors? Seems extreme to me.

I guess you could try and look into the Wii in comparison to Wii U for those who want to relive their past gaming experiences and show that the Wii is still a much better place to do that.

Anecdotally, I will hear people admit that if Zelda was a certain way or some other core Nintendo game was made modern in a certain way they'd buy in. Only point being that just because someone is an Xbox exclusive or PS exclusive owner now doesn't mean they don't have a Nintendo-specific nostalgic trigger living in them.

@Quorthon You said, "Ha, no, those sales people aren't recommending Mario to confused parents because of nostalgia--that's an absurd stretch, especially considering how many of them don't care about Nintendo (hint: a lot of them), it's because recommending Mario is LAZY and EASY. "Just recommend Mario, people have heard of it or whatever." "Ok.""
My intent was to suggest that the parents know Mario and remember it, not the salespeople, though I see how it could be misread that way.

Here's what I originally wrote: ""sales people ALWAYS recommend the Mario games to confused parents" could that be because a significant number of them remember playing Mario and the sales people rely on that?"

I think you thought the "them" was the sales people but it was meant to be the parents.

So, why is recommending Mario so easy? Are the customers satisfied after? why? I don't think it's an absurd possibility that many know Mario and maybe even have good memories about playing a game with him in it.

@Yorumi
I don't even know if we are arguing degree. I think the past actions of Nintendo have not always leveraged the nostalgia very well. Despite the success of NSMB and Mario Kart on the Wii, Nintendo also actively transformed its image into a company concerned with motion-based gaming and reaching all kinds of people. To some the message was eventually received as Nintendo doesn't make many of the games like I remember anymore. Mario Kart was cool, NSMB was fun, but that's it? What's this Wii Music thing? Lots of damage to undo.

It is cheap.

When I purchased my Wii U, I paid $330 with Nintendoland - the game that I did not actually want. Ah...