Sakurai Explains Reasoning Behind Removal Of Ice Climbers From Super Smash Bros.

Before you guys blame the 3DS for holding back the Ice Climbers from climbing the Smash Mountain:

Edit.
I hope they will still come on the Wii U Smash.

Pretty lame, but I'm not completely torn up about it. I'm happy the Duck Hunt dog made it in! Very strange, but perhaps this was considered a good alternative since they both come from the exact same era!

This is rather upsetting. I have a 3DS and Wii U, and the thought of portable Smash worried me from the start. Hearing that it has indeed held back the Wii U version due to the need to make them similar, I am not happy at all.

Sad to see them go, as I am any former competitor (Yes, even Pichu). I think he should have completely overhauled them into being just one character this time around instead. Play as Popo OR Nana.

Yeah, I suspected this ever since he made the comment about having difficults with IceClimbers in the 3DS version a year or so ago.

It's still sad to see that the 3DS version will end up limiting the WiiU game though. I was hoping that would not be the case. In retrospect I would have rather seen both versions getting a couple of different characters.

"[...]emphasising how it was important to avoid any considerable differences between the two versions of the game.[...]"

It really makes me wonder what the Wii U version has to offer. They remain so silent about that version that it starts to make me worry. Saying that the two version shall not have any significant differences and the Wii U version not getting Smash run is worrysome. I hope they start to pump out some information once the 3DS versions have released.

To the Ice Climbers: I never really liked to play them in Melee and Brawl, but then again: I haven't played the Ice Climbers games. Though, I hated their levels in NES Remix. That being said: it's always sad to see veterans leaving the field, especially for those of us that liked them. I also think that a portable version shouldn't affect the console version, but that's just my opinion.

@Soundtoxin I agree with U 100% it is bs that there not on Wii U because of the 3ds

@Soundtoxin That's exactly what I thought all along and with this confirmation of the games being nearly the same, I can see the 3DS version eating up the sales of the WiiU version big time. At this point I know that Smash will help the WiiU, but I doubt that it will do wonders for it, a small bump during the Holidays and a slight increase of the baseline but not much more.

Good. Let them stay away. Evil iceclimbers climbing ice n stuff. With all the climate change happening they're not even relevant anymore. Plus, they have bad hair. I can tell by their hammer. It's true. And they're vampires. You can see because they don't have shadows. I bet the 3ds has a vampire embargo on it. And they can't even cook. When you tell them go cook, they bring you a vodka on the rocks. They can't fight either. They keep drowning in their own level. Plus, those coats are way out of fashion. And what's with the hands? seriously, leather? No way, glad they got the boot.

@erv
I thought you were serious at first.

I'm still not getting how the 3DS can't handle them when it can animate other duos. Yes they are full human models but they don't seem different than what's already in the game. No one ask for DLC it's not happening

@erv I concur. And they're racist. Well, my mum told me that, so it must be true.

The Ice Climbers will be missed; but the 3DS is my only way to play Smash, so if they had to go, so be it. We'll see you later, ICs. You won't be forgotten. Also, it seems only one character(s) couldn't make it due to limitations; the 3DS ain't holding the Wii U version in any other aspect, as far as we know.

This isn't fair, I want them back =(

This is exactly what I expected the reason to be. Nintendo were stupid to make a 3ds version from the start. It's going to eat into the Wii U sales big time.

@Mega719

@SanderEvers Amiibo has nothing to do with it the developers find it fair to let both versions have the same roster. Hope by "extra characters" you mean the 49 in the game

Still, hoping they eventually make it to the Wii U version, they were my favourites. Also, sad that Doshin is once again not present. He could've been a very interesting character (the whole growing/throwing/turning evil thing especially).

This is pretty obvious to anyone who understands the technical limitations of the 3DS compared to home consoles.

I'll bet you dollars to donuts that this is the same reason previously transforming characters are stand alone characters and don't transform. All those characters have to be stored in game memory during gameplay.

That's very upsetting! I have a pet-hate for things being omitted in games like Smash Brothers. I'm sure Nintendo might find a solution to this and (maybe) release the Ice Climbers as DLC. Who knows? But overall, I'm very disappointed even though they're not my favourite characters.

"According to Sakurai-san, a solution to this problem wasn’t a priority either due to there being no real reason to promote the Ice Climbers – as there are no planned announcements or instalments for this particular series any time soon."

So, there will be a new Duck Hunt game? F-Zero? Line of new Game & Watch games? Punch Out? Otherwise its no real reason to include them either. (I like all of them by the way, and I like Ice Climbers too. Well, I dont like all G&W games, but I like some of them.)

Too bad they priored Dark Pit over Ice Climbers

@Tobias95 Um, none of those characters gave the game problems.

All right, lets say Peach then. She has a bug in online mode or somthing like that. Of course she will star in a lot of future Mario games, but I still would prefer Ice Climbers, as I like their game, and they has been some of my favorite fighters in Smash. Sorry I dont like the idea of them beeing cutted out, well, I simply dont like the idea.

@Tobias95 The 35th anniversary of Game & Watch is next year so I wouldn't be surprised if something special happens with that especially as Game & Watch games have been Club Nintendo rewards for a while now.

@Grumblevolcano That would actualy be nice ^^
Oh well, I hope they will release Ice Climbers as DLC then

I guess I'm litterally the only one here that couldn't care less xD and, mind you, I've played through both melee and brawl. The only reason I'll miss them is that they were an easy KO on classic mode

I'll say, while I am hurt over the loss of one of my favorite characters ever since Melee, I can sacrifice them over the possibility of finally playing my favorite series on the go. Besides, my other three mains - Luigi, Sonic and Toon Link - made it in (and as starter characters, at that!), and while not being actually there himself, my other main, the Pokémon Trainer, is back as Charizard.

Already a pretty awesome result, although the Ice Climbers could well have been overhauled as a single character just appearing to be two (such as Popo occupying the foreground and Nana acting as his shadow in the background, and moving together instead of Nana being out of sync). Besides, we already have the IC on our 3DSes - in their own game. We'll still be seeing 'em, only they'll be in their own adventures. That, and Ultimate NES Remix, which should satiate our hunger for Ice Climbers and other Nintendo characters in the same game.

@BensonUii
Brawl In The Family makes anything better. Too bad it's coming to an end.

@BensonUii
(Someone should tell Matthew Taranto he nailed both the Ice Climbers' exclusion and Roy Koopa's inclusion in advance - man, the guy's a friggin' clairvoyant!)

@kukabuksilaks
Um, no. Haven't been able to play Rosalina yet, but Luma acts as an entirely independent character when farther away from her. So yeah, Rosalina & Luma is essentially the Ice Climbers' spiritual successor, as far as gameplay goes.

@Tobias95

I'll bet money that the duck hunt dog will end up in Diddy Kong Racing 2. Punchout could see another installment for the U as well, or might have if the system had been a bigger seller. F-Zero as well.

The only one with a future as dead as Ice Climbers would be Game and Watch, but he had a much more significant historical impact for Nintendo.

Well if there is already at least one person with a EU cart it means they deliberately made the carts broken. Or he is not being truthful.

This is disappointing, but understandable really. Running the fighters at 60 fps is already pretty consuming, and unlike Luma, Nana has her own AI that follows Popo, not blindly following like Luma does to Rosalina. This doesn't mean one extra character on field, but instead a possible 4. 8 characters, all with complex models, possibly all with their own AI as well that the game has to use, assist trophies, final smashes and it isn't hard to see why this was so intense for the 3DS.

tl:dr, the game looks better therefore demands more resources, ice climbers double the resources for the characters, therefore the game would suffer because of them, I'm glad they made the decision to cut them out if it caused a wider problem.

Still a sad loss. I'll miss you Popo and Nana.

@unrandomsam Someone has an EU cart? If its the fact that I emntioned Peach, I was refering too this:
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2014/09/weirdness_playing_as_peach_online_is_triggering_auto_bans_in_japan

I get that some people will miss the Ice Climbers but I'm not one of them. Not only I never learned to play as them, but I had no affection for them as their game never left me with a good impression. (as opposed to the Duck Hunt Dog with which I look forward to play).
And last reason: no more Ice Grabbers in touneys! That's a relief! ^^

@SanderEvers So Is Kid Icarus, F-Zero and game and watch yet there isn't much of announcements for these series either.

Its pretty simple solution. This should've been a Wii U exclusive only. A lot are going to use the Wii U version not because its better, but also because its got controller options as well.

@Tobias95 Oh Tobias, http://youtu.be/cEsdLNG3u6I?t=22s
The inclusion of those other characters doesn't mean those games will be cropping up soon, (although I would imagine every character's amiibo would have to have some function outside of smash bros.)
It just means there was no incentive for them to break their backs over trying to fix characters that weren't working, potentially delaying the game.

@Josaku @MajinSoul To anyone worried about the Wii U version's content, do not forget that the 3ds version did not use any of the cut scenes we have seen, and both Ridley from Metroid and Metal-Face from Xenoblade have been teased at various points.
This suggests some sort of mode similar to subspace but I don't want to get my hopes up too high.

Ice Climbers being New 3DS exclusive confirmed

While it's a bad thing that we can't use them in these versions I'm still very happy that we'll get a lot of characters with unique movesets and smash on the go. I mean, I just can't complain after playing the demo

I wasn't an Ice Climber main but always enjoyed seeing them played by a skilled player, I'll definitely miss them. Being honest Sakurai should have just had them in the Wii U version, whether they are relevant or not today should not play a factor in them having less importance.

I've said it once and I'll say it again. Oh 3DS version, how I love, yet despise you.

I'd rather just have the wii u version if it meant I've climbers or any other characters could come back

@Artwark Kid Icarus Uprising came out 2 years ago and was Sakurai's previous game before Smash 3DS and Wii U.

The new 3ds has more power right? Wait until the new 3ds comes out and make a ice climber dlc.

@AlexSora89 and the duck hunt dog appeared at some point

i still think they should of been added to the wii u version cuz why not if it can handle it then its more then fine

but yeah some bull will show up about them being only for the new new 3ds

There's absolutely no reason why the 3DS can't handle Ice Climbers. All they had to do was simply update the character like how they redone Bowser. I can imagine something like Nana on Popo's back as if he's giving her a piggyback ride, instantly becoming 1 model, but Sakurai says there was lack of prioritize so there you have it.

if only this game is for new 3ds in that old 3ds we wouldn't be having this problem, now would we?
In all seriousness, does everyone now understand why the new 3ds is relevant?

I...couldn't care less about the Ice Climbers personally. I always felt that there wasn't much reason for their being in Melee and Brawl anyway.

New Duck Hunt game confirmed!

I had a feeling this is why they were cut.

So even though the Wii can handle the Ice Climbers and their AI just the 3ds with it's proven superior hardware can't? Sounds to me like an excuse to cut corners. This combined with weird playtesting decisions, slow/defensive gameplay, and a unimaginative(biased) roster has made me quite wary of the new smash bros.

@Galvanic_Arcvn Slow/defensive gameplay? How did you come up with that opinion?

@Mega719 The difference is that other pairs like Rosalina/Luma and the Duck Hunt Dog/Duck still control like a single character, while Nana is controlled by an AI

Well, they're no big loss. They still only have a single game to their names from well over 20 years ago, and I never liked playing as them, anyway.

@Galvanic_Arcvn Whoever said the 3DS had superior hardware to the Wii (at least when the 3D effect is on)? I think the fact that the upcoming Xenoblade Chronicles port requires the extra power of the new model proves that the Wii trumps the current 3DS model. As for your other complaints, the gameplay is still faster than Brawl, and what's wrong with the roster? I think they did an excellent job expanding the roster. The only real snub among most wanted characters who was actually feasable (Nintendo can no longer use any Rare characters, Ridley is just too big, Chrom would be overkill for FE: Awakening and the Fire Emblem franchise in general, and Waluigi wouldn't be able to provide an adequate moveset) is King K. Rool.

@kukabuksilaks ,
(a) Luma does everything as a response to button presses just like rosalina
(b) Pikmin have AI such as returning on use of down special, Propelling themselves foward in smash attacks, making up the chain in his up special, and more.
(c) THE DUCK DOESN'T ATTACK!!!

Nooooooo, I love playing as the Ice Climbers!
I hope they make it into the WiiU version, but I won't hold my breath.

So, lets break it down:

• Remove a character for performance issues on the handheld.
  This is the scenario we have now, if thats so bad, here are the alternatives, with a slight hint of what the outcome might be
• Reduction of framerate and frametime to leave computing power of the fith character = FPS whining, unplayable in the eyes of MLGs, timing difference between home console version: Verdict: SMash Bros forever ruined.
  Ice Climbers become a solo character = Its not the ice climbers anymore, not original anymore, character change too drastic. Verdict: Waste of a slot
  Ice Climbers are console exclusive: But they said the roster is the same, they favor the pooooooooopy WiiU, competetive training ruined on 3DS. Verdict: Smash Bros forever ruined.

And i could go on with that farce. It makes me wonder how games like Street FIghter 3 are still considered one of the best in the series, when the whole original roster was omitted, when people cry their eyes out about the omission of a single character here.
The game offers so much new content, so many great and innovative new characters, and people boycott it about the missing ice climbers...
What a sad sight, really...

Well, then. Guess the fears that the 3DS would hold the game back have been validated.

Using up 2 AI isn't an excuse, they could of had redone Nana and Popo (read 50 comment) since other characters got the treatment.

Not a deal breaker for me. Greninja was added to life is GOOD!

I always feared something like this when they announced a 3ds also. While I have no objections to a 3ds version I just wished that the 3ds version didn't hold back the Wii U version in any way.

Would have liked if both games were different (each with their own unique characters that is relevant to the games that the system is on) instead of having both versions having the same rooster. That way one system isn't held back by the limitations of another.

So what the hell is the point of the "New" Nintendo 3DS for if it can't handle a character??? That's stupid.

I would like to say with the New 3DS LL, they can review and see what they can do now that it has the added power they might need, but I believe Sakurai wouldn't want that because it could be only playable to just the New 3DS LL owners, and he doesn't want to alienate the people who just got a 3DS.

I don't know nothing about how they make a game. What we're hear may be the dumb down version of how hard it really is. So I can respect his decision. I also don't care much for the Ice Climbers, but feel sorry for those who can't play as them for the new Smash. I loved the Pokemon Trainer, but I may have to move on to Charizard. Maybe some can move on to Rosalina & Luma.

@Galvanic_Arcvn @BulbasaurusRex The new SSB will not be available on the Wii. It's on the Wii U.

They could still add them separately, if they wanted. As in, playing as only one or the other sibling. All they'd have to do is make them a little stronger and change their Up+B move so that it works solo.

Have we considered the possibility that they could be added as DLC once the new 3DS gets an international release? If that added processing power can run Xenoblade Chronicles, surely it could process the Ice Climbers in Smash...

The comic at the top is great!

I'm not losing sleep or anything, but the Ice Climbers were my favorite characters from past Smash games. I loved their spin move, and their smash moves were really powerful. I'll miss them.

On a side note, after playing the 3DS demo more, I can honestly say that I can't wait for the Wii U version. I'll most likely pick up two copies of the 3DS version but probably more for my two sons then for me.

I see people are upset about (1) character set that really only has (1) game made for them ......dating back to 1985...... interesting......

Hmm, I heard the 3DS is more powerful than the GameCube. Guess that's not true.

I think people are upset for the reason given. This is a perfectly working character on the Wii U that is being removed purely because of a completely different game on a completely different system. They can have different modes, different stages, different music, but because one system can't handle a character, the other loses out.

I just don't understand why some people think having less characters is better than having more.

Sakurai said it won't work, so it won't work. Bashing Nintendo for that is pretty pathetic, since they had no other choice.
Besides, Ice Climbers wouldn't be even half as popular if they didn't have chaingrab.

@Einherjar Shots fired. Shots. Damn. Fired.

I think many of you are missing the point. They had trouble implementing the pair in and they didn't prioritize fixing the issue because the ice were not getting a release soon

When the 3DS version was announce I had a feeling this would happen. I wish there was no 3DS version seriously. Lost a unique character over a dumb handheld.

Most people use the argument "But they were able to run on the GameCube" when discussing this, but while the 3DS has better RAM than the GC, it has less processing power, and would you imagine a 4 Ice Climber match online? I never used the Ice Climbers, but I liked seeing them there. I wish that both versions didn't have the same roster.

This is no real loss. In 13 years I never played as them. They were pointless additions in Melee and simply were not fun to play as.

I doubt people will be cancelling their pre-orders of the Wii U game over this news.

_{You've already made your point. Enough is enough -Lz}

I'm not annoyed enough to boycott the game (that would be absurd) but I'm annoyed that they didn't just leave the Ice Climbers in the Wii U version. Why should the much more powerful HD version be limited by what they can do with the 3DS? It's that kind of backward thinking that makes people look at the Wii U as not being worthwhile competition to other consoles.

I could have sworn they mentioned this very early on. It is the reason duo characters got split up. Also why poketrainer is gone. They will be back next gen I'm sure.

I'm with everyone else here. It's really lame they're not in at least the Wii U version and there's no reason they have to have exactly the same character list. So you can use your 3DS as a controller if you have the game. They already cut Mii Fighters from the list when you play With Anyone online, why can't they cut Ice Climbers out if you're playing with a 3DS on Wii U. It's a small sacrifice for a high-profile inclusion.

I HIGHLY doubt it, but I hope the DLC rumors that accompanied the factual roster leak turns out to be true. If I have to pay extra and download my Ice Climbers later, so be it. I want them in.

@kukabuksilaks Internet high five. Thank you for posting the difference! It is not like Sakurai got lazy or something. The 3ds honestly couldn't handle IC properly. If Sakurai had gimped them just to keep them in, people would be grabbing pitch forks. They will be back next gen. I'm pretty sure after the success of the handheld game Nintendo is going to keep that in mind when building the next handheld.

@Captain_Gonru How is it an amiibo thing? What, that they AREN'T adding new exclusive characters to each system and therefore having even more toys is money grubbing?

@bro2dragons Sakurai wants to respect the competitive community. Having the same roster between both games means that players won't HAVE to buy both to be a part of the community. If the Ice Climbers were added into the Wii U version, but some hardcore Ice Climbers player already bought a 3DS with the 3DS version, he'd be screwed.

@ToxieDogg Then the complaint would be that Nintendo is forcing gamers to buy both because they have different rosters. Tons of multiplats that go to handheld and console try to produce the same game and usually when the handheld game is different it gets panned. Nintendo wanted to give as close to an equal experience as possible to give consumers an honest choice. Can't afford a wiiu? cool you can still play smash. Don't want a 3ds? cool you can still play smash. Got both? cool you can still pay smash.

@Einherjar Why is it that I agree with everything you say?

@NavySpheal Maybe were just likeminded and tend to not jump on every hate train just because

I honestly can't be very torn up about this personally, I never used them, never LIKED using them, and I hated fighting AGAINST them.

That said, as characters, I do like them, and it's still a bit sad to see a two-time veteran go. I'm willing to bet they'll be back in Smash Bros 5 though. I'm glad we got Duck Hunt Dog instead though.

I would love to know why Lucas got removed...

@Neferupitou He's an obscure clone.

Based on how pokemon and assist trophies work, having Ice Climbers would likely slow the frame rate to 30fps. And I'm sure you all can imagine how pissy some people would get playing an online match and having someone pop on as Ice Climbers, dooming your match to a constant 30fps. Not worth the grief. I'm certain they could make it work, but probably not with all 4 players using Nana and Popo. And that would be a weird restriction to put on players.

@Trippinator : Yeah, I get that. It's why I don't believe DLC is coming. But I disagree with the reasoning and the accuracy of the leak and Nintendo's increasing acceptance of DLC (see Mario Kart 8), give me juuuuuuuust enough to hope against hope it comes true.

@bro2dragons I'd honestly be fine with free DLC, costumes, or new stages, but I think new characters (especially paid) would alienate the community.

@Ryu_Niiyama Ehhhh.....I don't know. As someone who's buying both versions, I'd much prefer any characters that can be in the Wii U version to be left in. The main appeal of the 3DS version for a lot of people is going to be more that you can play it on the move, not that it's got the exact same roster as the Wii U version. It's already got different stages to fight on so I doubt one or even 2 characters would make any difference whatsoever....it's not like the bad old days where a fighting game on a handheld would lose half the roster for instance. Sakurai (and Nintendo) really don't need to do this, it's pointless.

@ToxieDogg Yeah, since you're buying both versions, exclusive rosters aren't a problem. But Sakurai is trying to be all inclusive, and clearly favoring a certain version with extra characters wouldn't help that. With a competitive game like Smash Brothers, you shouldn't be punished for having a different version than someone else.

@bro2dragons That DLC portion was thrown into that leak by the original leaker. They did that intentionally to catch people trying to steal their thunder.

Keep in mind that Sakurai never said a solution to problems managing ice climbers with the 3ds was impossible, just not a priority. Ice Climbers could still be added in at a later date. I personally would pay up to $9.99 for DLC that added ice climbers (yes I know that's overpriced, but I like them ).

Ice Climbers aside, not all decisions regarding the character roster were good ones. Dark Pit for example, seems like a waste of a character slot. Are there really any notable differences between the two aside from appearance?

The two games are getting the same exact character roster, how did everyone here miss that??

@Einherjar I hardly post on this site so what the hell you even on about? Seriously you can't have an opinion without being attack, let alone by nintendo fanboys. I said nothing negative towards nintendo, I have always been supporting them for years and when smash 3DS was announce I was not happy. Is that a freaking problem? If anything this game should've been on Wii U only since 3DS is holding back contents, characters getting cut and now Wii U smash have to suffer. You know what I'm done, two times I been attack by fanboys on here.

Me personally, I'm alright with this as I didn't typically use the Ice Climbers too much. I can certainly understand the frustration with other people if they used them often.

That said, I wouldn't count them out yet. I think it is very possible SSB4 will get DLC, and perhaps they will be able to sort out the issues. It might be possible with the "New 3DS." I don't want to build any hopes up, but just keep it in the back of your mind.

@ToxieDogg Not everyone is buying all of the versions of the game. Like I said in my previous post this allows everyone to play the same base game no matter what. Stages and music don't matter as the game is centered around the playable fighters since it is a fighting game. There would be a riot if one version had a certain number of characters and the other didn't.

The Ice Climbers have been my regular fighters since Melee, so it's a bit disappointing to see that they didn't make the cut. Part of me wonders if they would have worked on the New 3DS's improved hardware. But I digress, the roster looks pretty solid in its current state, so it's fine. Thanks for at least trying Sakurai.

@Einherjar Well to SF3's credit the roster was overhauled and it was the third revision that is usually considered the best. The highlight of that game is the improvement to the game mechanics themselves rather than the roster. SF4 is imo in between 2 and 3 in terms of the gameplay and speed. Though I know a few people that fell in love with the roster. I'm a Ryu player so I'm always covered though.

@Ryu_Niiyama Exactly, its the game itself, its improvements that matter. So, does the exclusion of the Ice Climbers make the new Smash a worse game ? Do the new improvements fall flat because its being "held down" ?

So it's possible that ice climber will be a new 3DS/ Wii U exclusive character in the future (next year)

@mullen They wont work on the 3DS even in a year and i highly doubt that they will add them solely to the WiiU version.

@Einherjar Read again, I meant [new 3DS] character, not new [3DS character]

@mullen Oh, ok. Well that "could" be a possibility, but still, it would exclude anyone not upgrading to a new system and would ruin competetive play.

"Let's not prioritize a fan favorite and make a cheap Recolor take their spot instead. Also if we're going to include clones let's omit the fan favorite clones that would take as much work as Dark Pit" - Smash Team

Would having Nana run at 30fps help the situation?

It is pretty sad that the Wii U version is having something cut when it could still handle it, although at least most had got in. I agree with others that they could've gotten remodeled to work with the limit(too bad they are considered not as relevant).

Speaking of new characters(going by some other posts' defence), I wish we had gotten characters like Isaac and Shantae, instead of Dark Pit, who could've really been fresh (and a little more relevant).

@Einherjar All I'm going to say is that you really should look back at your own posts, if you're going on about others' being whiny( and sometimes ridiculous). :-l

I don't really see the problem with being a bit frustrated over the limits when this article is for discussing their absence.

"as there are no planned announcements or instalments for this particular series any time soon."

Well why not make a new game for them Sakurai, and perfectly call it "Ice Climber: Uprising". And when the game is release, we'll all have ice climbers avatars and dress as them for the cons, yo!

=w=' I wish.......

@jedisquidward If every player picks the Ice Climbers, you basically have 8 full blown characters in one match. Its simply not possible.

@Lalivero It would seriously help if you could point out my whiny and ridiculous posts youre refering to. No one said that its a problem to be a bit miffed about their exclusion, but some arguments on here are, like always, just far and beyond any reason.

Hey, Nintendo Life, I would just like to thank you for ruining part of the surprise for this game. I've been trying to keep myself spoiler free for this game, and that goes both ways. Not only do I want to avoid knowing who got in, but also who got cut. Wasn't expecting you to spring an article like this. So, again, thank you.

I should probably avoid all video game news sites from here on out.

@brewsky You could play the game for all eternity and still wouldn't know if you had to do something specific to unlock them and thus wouldn't know if they were in or out unless you read it somewhere, so I don't really see how this would hurt your experience.

EDIT: If anything, it softens the blow, seeing as you won't have to play the game for ages and than go: "Where the hell are the ICs?"

@Einherjar Fighting games are my favorite genre so I don't understand most of the reactions I see in the smash community. But I think I'm just used to roster changes and re-balancing and differences between handheld and console fighters. We could have had a soul calibur broken sword fiasco.

Either way smash is going to be great. IC will be back next gen. At this point i can really see Nintendo going to Sakurai and asking him what specs does he need to have smash run smoothly on their next handheld.

@Monkeh The game has always told you when you have unlocked every character in the game.

@Ryu_Niiyama Seeing the phenomenal success of it already, i bet this will be the benchmark for further hardware developments for sure.

@Einherjar Take a look back at comment #81, if you really don't see. You could've stopped after you pointed out @MorriganIsHot 's post, but instead went onto some semi-lengthy, - whiny - rant about how ridiculous you think some others are being over this.

I had no intentions of getting into a little argument over it though, so I'll leave it at that, just giving you what you asked.

"They have no upcoming games..."

DOES THIS MEAN NEW F-ZERO AND DUCK HUNT REBOOT

@Inkling As interesting as those would be to hear, doubt it. I find the uses of that defence pretty amusing though. XD

Screw the 3DS.

Promote... does that mean there's gonna be a new duck hunt, mega man, punch-out ,and earthbound.

probably not

Sad to see the ICs go, hopefully they'll live on in the Wii U version and become 3DS Version DLC.

I feel like DHD and ROB are much better than ICs though, so while I'm kinda sad they're gone, I'm kinda happy that this is still the best roster yet. cough GRENINJA cough

@Yorumi 3DS and Wii U can connect and play.

Ice climbers is not a game I can play for very long

I never really got the hang of the ice climber's but people are starting to use them as an excuse to hate of dark pit and docter Mario saying they are clones and shouldn't be in it when they aren't technically clones since kid Icarus uprising had 108 different weapons so it can beof great strategic importence and well idk about dr. Mario but for those that are talking about games like mr game and watch, rob, and duck hunt dog not being relevant that is only slightly true, Mr game and watch has several games a lot of them in fact. Rob was a special machine to play 2 separate games not just 1 and just looked really cool. The duck hunt dog well yes somewhat unrelevent but practically any1 that has ever played an nes knows the duck hunt dog and either gives nostalgia or burning hatred for its laugh. While ice climbers have only had 1 game that not many really ever knew and is a pain.

@Yorumi But when you use the 3DS as a controller for the Wii U, you need the 3DS game running.

@Yorumi well they will have some exclusive modes in it since the 3ds version has smash run the wii u will get something as well and will most likely have online capabilities with whatever it is.

That's really SAD, especially that they aren't even going to be in the WiiU version of the game? WTF? They have always been one of my favorite characters

Good riddance. I'd rather not be reminded of that horrible game.

Wow and the iceclimbers were really good fighters too

Well there's DLC (if it's possible). I can see Ice Climbers available as DLC for the "NEW 3DS" and Wii U version. Yes it alienates original 3DS users, but if Ninty is smart ( and evil), they can use it as an "incentive" for fans of Ice Climbers to upgrade their 3DS (or buy a Wii U if they don't have one). Hey look, more money!

@Mega719 You do realize that amiibo is essentially DLC, yeah? Because it is.

@Yorumi I was assuming that the DLC is free, I don't know, DLC can be free right? Ninty would still make lots of $$$ from sales of the "NEW 3DS" and Wii U.

There is one thing I forgot and this makes any sort of exclusive DLC characters pretty much impossible, the online portion. They still have to take into account that there are people using non-"NEW 3DS", and that could make the online match finding convoluted and messy. Although I guess they could just make the DLC portion just for the "NEW 3DS" and completely leave the 3DS/2DS out. Then during online matches, there could be an option where if you want to use DLC characters, it will only match you up with other 3DS and Wii U (if that is possible). It will make online matchups very messy, so that probably won't happen.

This makes me so sad :c

I know they had their fans, but I really don't care either way. Duck Hunt Dog is the classic-NES rep that I look forward to playing as.

To be honest, the cuts that we got in this game are not that bad compared to other fighting games. You have ones like Street Fighter and Soul Calibur that cut characters for no good reason. At least with Smash 4, there was an effort to keep as many characters from Brawl as possible.

And Sakurai is at least nice enough to explain why the Ice Climbers did not make it in. Capcom and Namco would not even bother explaining why they cut almost the entire roster between Street Fighter II and Street Fighter III or the mess that was Soul Calibur V's roster.

Sagat or Sakura fan? Like Taki? Want to know where they are? Then go screw yourself if you don't like the stupid new characters we added.

At least Smash Bros kept characters like Ike, Toon Link, Lucario, ROB, and other who looked like they were going to be cut.

I know the loss of the Ice Climbers is a major blow, I played as Wolf and it sucks that he's gone as well. But there is a silver lining in this. Several new characters are waiting to be discovered in Smash 4.

Wolf may be gone, but I'm looking forward to Robin, Little Mac, Mega Man, and Pac Man.

I am just dismayed people want to focus so much on the negatives of this game. Do people complain this loudly when Capcom cuts out characters and then adds them in with updates? What are we at now, the fourth or fifth update of Super Street Fighter IV?

We have over 50 characters in this game, tons of game modes, and other cool content.

But all people want to do is complain about what the game does not have. I'm kinda unhappy to see this. Video games are supposed to be fun. Can't we enjoy games for what they do have?

Thanks for confirming my suspicion.

Smash as devolved from a crossover fighting game into a Billboard to sell whatever possible under-performing game.

I'm not okay with this, at all.

That and the fact that a good portion of the roster now is pretty boys with swords or GIRL POWER GIRLS.

The evils of the video game world has spilled over into my favorite franchise and now I'm just disgusted.

@Yorumi But there would still the problem of the 3DS/2DS dealing with characters like Ice Climbers. Even if the 3DS/2DS can download the data necessary to display the character and interpret the data they receive from the other player, wouldn't the 3DS/2DS still have problems from executing the data due to the limited hardware? It would slow the game down and make the match unplayable/unbearable.

Yup this is what everyone was afraid of. So no matter how you spin it (people defending this action), the 3DS technically held the Wii U version back. They probably shouldn't have said anything at all.

I also still find it hard to believe that a capable machine like the 3DS can't handle what was on GC back in 2001. Then again, I don't understand programming and what it takes. So I'll detract that statement. I'm a bit peeved at this. Not because they won't be on the game, but at the fact that there could be other content that didn't make it because the 3DS can't handle it.

Odd, but I'm guessing this is some of the same stuff that must've prompted Nintendo to come up with the New 3DS... I'm guessing there's a chance they will be DLC at some later date. On another but similar note, I know that Rosalina her Luma don't operate like the Ice Climbers did, but it seems odd there will be no issue with their dual character setup. Like someone mentioned earlier, I didn't program this game, so I wouldn't understand. It's an unfortunate circumstance, but I will get over it like I did Mewtwo

If i want to play as Ice Climbers i'll just play Melee thank you very much

I miss the days when games didn't have to be the exact same across multiple platforms.

@Kyloctopus I thought the exact same thing... They could come in a DLC for Wii U and the New 3DS, but that it's just a kick in the nuts to us, their fans. So probably Sakurai won't allow it.

And I think the 3DS can handle Ice Climbers just fine, in a match like ICs VS Mario.
I'm guessing that what they couldn't manage was a 4 players Ice Climbers... That's like 8 players on the 3DS, so they just let him out.

Sounds like a bunch of flimsy excuses. Just say not every character can make it into a Smash Bros game, and be done with it.

I see folks getting paranoid going "What else might've been cut from the Wii U version??", but I'm pretty sure the answer to that is, "Not much else, really."

Think about it, the only things Smash 3DS/Wii U seems to share are characters rosters and a couple of stages. Aside from the roster itself, how would the 3DS limit what exclusive stages, modes, and songs the Wii U version would have? Those would be considered INCENTIVES to get the Wii U version.

Additionally, if we had to sacrifice one character for a PORTABLE SMASH (something of many kids' dreams since the N64 days), so be it. And yes, I'd have gladly given up my 3 Brawl mains (Mario, Yoshi, Capt. Falcon) for Smash on the go. Heck, until a couple of months ago, Capt. Falcon didn't even seem like he was gonna make the cut and I was willing to cope.

@Nanamine who told you that? Amiibo in this game is for leveling up characters in the game . No one said it would unlock characters. Don't say i don't know that because trophies of characters people are "saying" would be part of a cross platform are in the game already

@MajinSoul I'd be lying if I said I wasn't worried at all about a lack of differences between the two, but I think it's less a matter of not having anything to show for the Wii U version and more about letting the 3DS version have the spotlight. If they start marketing the Wii U version and showing it off now, it could subtract from 3DS sales, because people will just want to get the console version for its likely higher amount of content. That's why they staggered the release dates of the 3DS and Wii U versions too. If they released them at the same time, people would just focus on the console version and neglect the handheld version, since that will likely be the more content-rich version. I want Wii U info too, but I honestly don't expect or want to see any until post-October 3rd. The 3DS needs its time in the spotlight, and Nintendo needs those handheld sales.

@AugustusOxy So you're not going to buy the new Smash Bros. because Sakurai used more girls and swordsman than you would like? Dude, get over yourself. It's not like the core gameplay has changed or anything. The game is still a crossover game with a ton of unique fighters. If almost 50 diverse playable characters and the idea of playing as Mario, Mega Man, Pac Man, and Sonic in the same game doesn't remotely pique your interest, I'm surprised you were ever into a game like Smash Bros.

@Ryno I don't. I'm still urked about the differences between Aladdin on the SNES and the Genesis. Don't get me wrong I don't want every game in the world to be a port. I love spin off titles. However I do like that now we have the option of having more games that are portable but otherwise the core gameplay is the same as the consoles. Personal example: I love fighting games. Yet I often work multiple jobs so I love that I can get many of those games on either the vita or the 3ds. On the weekends or when I have a lull that I only have to work one job I prefer to play on a console with my arcade stick. However right now I'm super grateful that I have the option to still play these games in light of my currently busy schedule. I hope more franchises do that in the future.

That being said I'm glad the games are not exactly the same. the unique modes are what sold me on the 3ds version. The only thing that I feel should be the same on a fighting game across multiple platforms is the roster. I'm glad Sakurai feels the same.

@AugustusOxy What? I don't even... ok.

Smash has an will always be a celebration of Nintendo's vast IP library. Everything about the game screams this, from the stages to the diversity of characters chosen. These IP also have a wide range of artstyles but most are more Japanese in artistic influence for obvious reasons. Nintendo also has a large range of characters of all genders, so I don't think I understand the aversion to female characters. Not only that many of the female characters in Smash either have a male counterpart or alt skin that is male. Of course the more popular franchises have more reps. I don't expect to see Rob Haywood running around in this game since his game isn't very popular. Still be it via assist trophy or just the standard trophies almost every franchise is represented.

What exactly are you looking for from smash and how does this current roster truly differ from previous installments as far as representation?

@Yorumi I agree completely that they need to push Wii U sales any way they can. And Smash is the only game left in Ninty's release schedule that will do that to a significant effect.

But I still think the core Smash experience that people adore - the sitting on the couch with some friends beating the snot out of each other - is something people will only get on the console version. I haven't met anyone in person so far who wants the 3DS version. But almost all of my friends want to play the Wii U version. Plus the fact that the console will have tons of exclusive stuff that the 3DS won't (HD graphics, exclusive modes, trophies, music, etc) is plenty of incentive for people who already own the 3DS version to get on board for the Wii U version.

I don't think the 3DS will suck the Wii U's sales away very much. IMO, despite having similar fighters, they're two very different games.

This is one of the saddest things for me. The Ice Climbers were my main back in Brawl. I wasn't amazing with them, in fact I could never successfully pull off their brutal chain grab, but they were one of the most entertaining characters to play as in my opinion.

If they couldn't get them running on the 3DS version... then that's alright. But not adding them into the Wii U roster is absurd. I mean, there is no reason not to. The 3DS and Wii U versions don't feature any cross play at a gameplay stand point, so there is no reason to leave them out.

This is why I was never interested in the way they were developing these games. The idea of having Smash Bros. being developed at the same time for both the Wii U and 3DS was interesting at first, but once they confirmed there would be no cross play and said they will have different modes, I quickly got a sour taste.

Don't get me wrong; I'm still insanely thrilled to pick up these titles. It's just that I feel like development for the titles, specifically the Wii U version, was limited due to this dual development process. They tried to hard too make the two games correspond with each other. I just wish they worked on the 3DS version completely and then moved onto the Wii U. Having two completely different Smash titles would have been sweet since these two don't feature cross play.

Maybe it's just the fact that the Wii U version doesn't have much about it announced so far in terms of game modes... I mean, will there be a level editor again? And what will be the main single player mode? And will missions return? They have to announce these things soon because without them, the Wii U Smash will be looked at as a missed opportunity. I just wish the Wii U version had its own soul, if that makes sense.

The 3ds doesn't seem so underpowered that it couldn't operate 5 different AI instead of 4... I could understand that the ice climbers might not have been able to run at the 60 fps standard, but surely they could've run at 20 or 30. Even if they were to have the same fps as some assist trophies, I'm sure people would be fine with it. I don't know too much about it though so I could be wrong.

This reminds me of Sexy Poker on Wiiware; An M rated game, that doesn't have nudity, even though that's kinda the point of strip poker. I was never interested in that game, but I'm using it as an example. I think Sakurai, &/or Nintendo wanted exact similar rosters, so that someone's favorite characters were not in just one version of the game. I'm guessing Nintendo wants maximum profits from both Smash titles. Like how Nintendo couldn't have nudity in Sexy Poker, while also saying they are a family company, Nintendo can't put the same game on 2 different platforms, w/o taking into account the weaker hardware; whatever's possible on the weaker hardware is also possible on the stronger hardware.

Also, while I stand in the corner that can tolerate their omitance, but is disappointed by it nonetheless, the 3ds>Gamecube argument neglects that the Cube had barely any OS at all, compared to the 3ds that does possess an OS, that had to lose some features(Miiverse, browser) to play this title.

I didn't care about Ice Climbers the characters.

I don't care about preserving move sets of top tier characters for the heck of it.

Still sucks that they are not in the game, i did like using them. The 3DS just could not handle them. Still looking forward to Smash on 3DS though.

"According to Sakurai-san, a solution to this problem wasn’t a priority either due to there being no real reason to promote the Ice Climbers – as there are no planned announcements or instalments for this particular series any time soon"

Sounds pretty harsh, and doesn't bode well for future instalments. Who else will get the cut in the future? Starfox, Samus, Captain Falcon?!

By the way this confirms what I already feared: The 3DS version is keeping the whole experience down. That's probably also the reason why there are no transformations this time either (for example: Zelda and Sheik got split). They just should have focused on one, fantastic title. A Wii u smash brothers.

@Yorumi If they included the Ice Climbers as a Wii U exclusive, they'd be slapping 3DS owners in the face. The 3DS version and Wii U version aren't completely different games, they're 2 different versions of the same game, basically what they do with Pokemon.

Sakurai doesn't care about console sales one bit, and he isn't going to let that affect his design and development process. Why should Sakurai be forced to make the 3DS version inferior just to improve Wii U sales? The character roster (minus Lucina, Dr Mario, and Dark Pit) was decided upon at the beginning of development back in 2012. It's an all or nothing thing. He had already promised that both versions would have the same roster. Making Ice Climbers Wii U exclusive doesn't provide an incentive, it just slaps 45 million 3DS owners in the face with a broken promise.

Sakurai wanted to be all-inclusive with the roster. He's not going to make Ice Climbers Wii U exclusive, and they won't come back as New 3DS exclusive DLC (that's a VERY shady business move).

Oh yeah, and Smash was already announced for both 3DS and Wii U way before the Wii U even launched, so the Wii U's sales situation is completely irrelevant.

As for the hardware, 3DS has a weaker processor than the GCN did. It couldn't handle the extra AI, and so Ice Climbers had to be cut. Doesn't mean they won't come back in Smash 5.

@LUIGITORNADO Yeah screw the 3ds that's making Nintendo money and keeping them afloat.

@NintyMan well duck hunt and game and watch didn't have problems. Im sure that if either one of those had had problems they would have got rid of them too. And the fact that no current games are coming out for ice climbers just takes away the incentive to solve the issues with them.

Maybe when the new 3ds comes out they'll have ice climbers dlc availble for it. Becouse of the better processing power it should be able to handle it.

another terrible decision by sakruai. thats a shame too. the ice climbers where beginning to grow on me. why sakruai, WHY!?!?!?!?!?!???
well mabye as dlc when the NEW 3DS comes out?

Having the Ice Climbers always made little sense to me exactly because of the lack of games from the series. If they made the cut, then the guy from Urban Champion and the Balloon Fight guy should be in. Heck, Mike Jones from Star Tropics has starred in more games than the Ice Climbers.

@Tsurii897 All of those are well-known, ROB helped save the videogame industry in the west, for christ's sake. Unlike Ice Climbers. Their game only sold like 1 million copy.

Oh yeah...stupid 3DS version. Shouldn't even exist.

Now I kind of wish the 3DS version never existed though I'm sure it'll be great.

They will be missed in this fourth Super Smash Bros. but I hope for them a future return in Super Smash Bros. 5 (whatever that one is gonna be called).

@midnafanboy

The 3DS is fine. Smash Bros. 3DS has always been a bad idea IMO though. Everyone who drools over the 3DS was so adamant that the 3DS version wasn't watering down the experience (and some even claimed it would be superior! LOL), but now we have proof that's EXACTLY what happened. Ice Climbers get cut for Dark Pit, Dr. Mario, and Falco...not to mention how many other features Sakurai probably won't mention (plus 3DS breaking apart because they aren't made for it). 3DS fans screamed and cried because they didn't want to buy a Wii U for Smash Bros...and this is what we get, both games get watered down.

@R_Champ "Ice Climbers get cut for Dark Pit, Dr. Mario, and Falco..." Falco?... Don't you mean Lucina. And I doubt the clones have anything to do with the Ice Climbers being cut. I agree with everything else you said though. Although Smash 4 was originally planned to be for the 3DS only (which would have been MUCH worst.)

I don't get why Sakurai was so determined to have the same roster on both. I don't care about the 3DS version. I don't care if it's good or bad, some people will like it. But now it adversely affects my Wii U version...

Let's not jump to any conclusions here. Sakurai said before that after the third installment of Smash (aka Brawl) would be the last entry. But then Iwata announced Sm4sh out of the blue to boast hardware sales and bestow hope in us; trapping Sakurai in a corner to make another Smash. Don't be too shocked that this may be the last Smash. It's too early to talk about the 5th installment when the States have yet to get the game.

this is pretty funny actually, the only thing I'll miss is freezing people in midair via a glitch with the two involving cutting off Nana's throwing animation... which was Melee, so yeah I don't miss them too much

@R_Champ @rp17 Both of you are wrong on that. Smash was announced for both systems before Wii U was out. It was never planned for 3DS only, and it being on 3DS is in no way because of "fans screaming and crying because of not wanting to buy a Wii U" as the SYSTEM WASN'T EVEN OUT YET!!!!

It was planned for both systems from the beginning, though Sakurai was trapped into a corner as he hadn't been planning on making one before Iwata announced it for both systems. Sakurai seemed more than willing to take on the game though.

@Yorumi All of the veterans were rebuilt from the ground up for Smash, which would include Ice Climbers as well. Dark Pit, Lucina, and Dr Mario's models were already built as alt skins, so it didn't take anywhere near as much time to modify Pit, Marth, and Mario for the clones' movesets. Ice Climbers would have taken much more time.

@R_Champ Both versions will get watered down? By one character? Wow.And the thing that's sad for me people hate this version and they don't know, this is how Nintendo will make their money,cause the 3DS install base is greater than the Wiiu.But half the people who say "screw the 3DS version why was it made?"Don't even care about ice climbers and they just want another reason to hate on the portable version.It's pathetic and sad hating on a version just because of this, makes me hate Nintendo fans sometimes.

@Yorumi I'm not upset about that,i'm just upset about a lot of people are hating on this version saying "Why was this version even made?"Just because ice climbers are gone,and half of them don't even care about the pair,they just want another reason to hate on the the 3DS version.

@jariw Yeah, so? Galvanic_Arcvn was arguing that since there were no issues with the Wii hardware implementing the Ice Climbers in SSB Brawl, the 3DS version should also be to handle it. I argued otherwise.

Here's my thing on this. Ice Climbers were my 2nd favorite character to use in Brawl, and no I don't use chain grabs. When the full Smash4 roster was revealed last week and no ICs was confirmed ... I never had a reaction to it, and was fine with it. I moved on and was ready and hyped for Smash WiiU, as I have been this entire time. But with this news about WHY they were cut (and the fact they WERE NOT going to be originally cut because they were tested on the WiiU version) is what has me, and many others, disappointed in this news. It is a slap in the face to those who were mostly looking forward to the console version. It's not about just 1 character getting cut. It's about what decisions have been made to satisfy the 3DS version, that the console version must now endure. I'll get the game, yes, and I'll enjoy the game. But my hype isn't the same anymore after reading this news.
And, having exclusive characters for each game would have been better, especially for tournament players. If one character is found broken, like MK in brawl, then both consoles have to deal with that. You'll now see 2 games with the same character uses and characters winning all tournaments, based on a tier list; when each game could have been unique with just a few exclusive characters. I dare say, you won't see many core smash players using the 3DS game much once the WiiU version arrives.
A majority of us never planned on getting Smash 3DS, but almost feel forced to just because it releases a couple/few months earlier that the WiiU version, and we just don't want to be left out.

@Yorumi
I'm not entirely sure due to how long its been since then, but I think the version parody MIGHT have been Nintendo reinsuring people that the 3DS version won't affect the Wii U version. So it was likely all just PR when they announced it'd be on both, until "oops" they couldn't do it. The catch is they're still technically equal, so they 'did' keep their promise.

The 3DS is supposedly slightly weaker than the Wii, so I don't see how its not strong enough. I swear, its the "no cut-scenes" fiasco all over again.

@Yorumi
You have no reason to believe the Wii U version will be "unappealing" to 3DS owners. Neither does anyone, frankly. We barely know anything about the game other than the fact that it has the same roster of characters. Who's to say Sakurai won't show 3DS owners a SIGNIFICANT reason to pick up the console version too? What if he surprises everyone and pulls out another campaign mode exclusive to Wii U? What if he blows everyone's mind with a ton of other reveals on the Wii U version? I think you're assuming the Wii U and 3DS versions won't be that different, and that there won't be any incentive for 3DS owners to get the Wii U version. That's something you can't make assumptions about, because we just don't know yet.

As far as the release schedule goes, Nintendo made the right choice releasing 3DS first. They essentially had three options with the two versions:

1) Release the Wii U version first and the 3DS version second. While this may have sold a few more Wii Us, it also would have cannibalized the 3DS version's sales. If the Wii U version does indeed have more content, I'd venture to say that a lot of people would get the full HD Smash experience for Wii U first, and then overlook the less-packed 3DS version.

2) Release them at the same time. This would have had the same issue. People would focus so much on the full console version that many would overlook the 3DS version. It would also have split the consumer's attention, because Sakurai would have had to focus on marketing both games at the same time. Think about it this way: if I have 60 dollars in my pocket, and I own a Wii U and a 3DS, and I can only choose one of the versions on release day, which one of them do you think I'm going to pick?

3) Release the 3DS version first, then the Wii U version. This is brilliant because it allows Nintendo to focus on one game at a time. The less content-rich 3DS version is shown off first, and the Wii U version isn't shown at all until the 3DS version hits. Not only does this build anticipation for the main title, but it also rakes in money like no other. Don't forget that the 3DS install base is significantly larger than the Wii U's. Nintendo will reap the rewards from its huge install base, and not only that, but with the larger version coming out later, a lot of 3DS gamers might decide the game is so good that they want the full HD, home console version to play with their friends.

I'd say Nintendo made the right calls with this, at least as far as making money is concerned!

@IceClimbers I wasn't talking about when they were revealed. The plan was to make a 3DS version before Uprising, originally, and thus it would've been Smash Bros. 4... but the Wii U would've gotten Smash Bros. 5 at a later date. So technically it wasn't planned for the 3DS only, but the 3DS was planned way before the Wii U one. Obviously now they have sorta merged and became two versions of the same game. (Although Nintendo may still consider them Smash 4 and Smash 5, according to a recent rumor that they have already started planning for Smash 6.)

@Yorumi You do have a point there. I was actually thinking about that after I had posted my previous comment. In my previous comment I said that the clones would have taken less time than the Ice Climbers, but that may not be true because the Ice Climbers were already built on both versions, it was just a matter of getting 4 of them to run smoothly on 3DS. Basically trial and error (and a bit of luck) - could take a few days, could take weeks.

I'm shocked at the amount of complaining on this thread. Smash fans can never be appeased, can they? Youve got almost 50 characters in the game, and you're still complaining that Ice Climbers got cut? And then people are complaining about the three clone characters in this game, but look how that stacks up to Melee's SIX. I'm tired of people hating on this roster. Sometimes characters get cut. Big deal. Go find one of the other 48 characters in this game to use.

@Yorumi

I see what you're saying. But I think a lot of what the both of us are talking about is still just speculation until Sakurai clarifies certain things. There's no way we can take guesses about Pokemon Trainer's exclusion or to what extent the 3DS version hampered the Wii U version, if at all (other than Ice Climbers' exclusion of course). Even if it did in some way, there's no need to blame Nintendo for it, and honestly I don't see why you would. It was clearly Sakurai's design choice and this game is his creative space. And who's to say he won't add Ice Climbers back as DLC if his team eventually figures it out after release? His team is under a lot of time constraints and probably just didn't have time to make them work. You could either have a 49-character Smash 3DS out on October 3rd, or a 50-character Smash 3DS out in 2015. I personally don't think Ice Climbers were worth delaying the game over, which is probably what would've had to happen if he had spent more time and resources trying to include them. I think he made the right design choice.

Ice Climbers is a horrible game anyway. Definitely not a part of Nintendo's history to be proud of. If they want to make it up to fans who miss them, give us a remake of the game with decent physics and platforms where the edges aren't seemingly non-existent.

@Yorumi

I don't know much about game design, but I can almost guarantee that clones take SIGNIFICANTLY less time to work on than an entirely original character. Especially one with 2 A.I.'s like Ice Climbers. So yeah, time constraint could have been a big reason they're not in.

I do think you're being way too harsh, but that's your opinion. If you really aren't going to be getting Nintendo's new hardware because they decided against putting one character in the new Smash, that's a bit crazy, but it's your decision. I disagree that Nintendo is only doing 2D platformers and not much else (see Smash, Mario Kart, Bayonetta 2, Hyrule Warriors, Pikmin 3, NES Remix, Legend of Zelda Wind Waker, Legend of Zelda 2015, Xenoblade Chronicles X, Splatoon, Starfox, etc.). Buy whatever you want, but I for one love the games Nintendo makes and I'll support their software and hardware so long as they keep giving me fresh game concepts and plenty of reasons to come back to them. And so far, they've done a really good job with that.

Wasn't it possible to bring an extra helper to a match via an amiibo figurine?

I remember in the Reggie VS. Iwata video how Iwata brought a beefed up Mario into the match to help him beat Reggie. The said helper was computer controlled and didn't replace Iwata's char.

So the devs had to take into consideration such an occasion that all four players were using the Ice Climbers and all four used an Ice Climber amiibo to bring an extra Ice Climber helper on the screen.
That's 12 separate AI controller entities on the screen in addition to the four individual Ice Climbers which the players control directly.
So yeah, it's conceivable that the poor 3DS couldn't handle it.

But it IS a shame if they're not in the Wii U version.

"there being no real reason to promote the Ice Climbers"
Really? Is there any real reason not to include them in the Wii U version?

I don't understand why people are so upset at this. I've never seen the Ice Climbers used professionally, or even for fun. The few times I personally used them, I found them extremely frustrating, especially since the AI on Nana was terrible and she'd fall off stage on her own accord. And, when she did, Popo was severely handicapped and had no UpB recovery move, most notably, and also had severely downgraded moves all around the board. I remember doing through Melee trying to get their trophies on Single Player, and remember it as being one of the most frustrating things I'd ever done in a game. They were terrible characters. Fun? Sure. Cute? Absolutely. Practical? Nope.

@GoshDangTravino "I've never seen the Ice Climbers used professionally, or even for fun" ... Ummmm, yeah, you must not really keep up with the competitive scene of Smash.

With such a huge and fantastic roster of absolute favorites of mine that were included I just can't be mad at any exclusions.

I really do like the Ice Climbers. I played them the most next to Link and Kirby when I played Melee and Brawl with my friends.

As for their old game, when I got it as a part of the Ambassador Program, I was interested to see what the game was like. It wasn't much, but it was fun and could be nerve-wracking at times.

I'm personally sad to see 'em go, but I've still got Link and Kirby.

I'll see you whenever I play Melee or Brawl, Ice Climbers. You'll be missed.

@Moshugan They wanted the rosters to be the same on both versions. That's about where that ends. If they couldn't get them to run on the 3DS, they were cut from the Wii U.

@MasterGraveheart that's not the ice climbers.... that's the sad Eskimo no ice climber fan wants that not even Sakurai that would take away their uniqueness. No way that one character idea is out the window and smash for switch is coming

@Baker1000 true but they are surprisingly popular in the Smash comitte its like a black hole without them

@GoshDangTravino Yes look at people using them I see people use Ice Climbers Now I see them in 1 v 1 it's pretty funny now all of a sudden they are being used by mains