$1.2 Billion Wiped Off Nintendo's Market Value As Share Prices Plummet

Damm.......That's a lot! But what does this mean again?

Well, that sucks.

I can only imagine the pressure iwata is under...wow... Hopefuly nintendo has a trick up its sleeve to turn things around.

@Artwark It means you'll be playing Mario on some kind of Apple product soon.

Nintendo gotta step it up! Not saying they need to turn over their company and fire people, but just give in more effort! It's a great console and i love it, but they've been handling the Wii U pretty half-assedly.

Today 1.2 Billion loss...
In the end of the year 1.2 Billion profit...

@Artwark it means nothing if your a gamer

It makes it harder for Nintendo to develop new products as they have less money. .

Wow, some people really had a panic sell - those who bought shares at 12000 yen got a real bargain.

It's a shame to see such a great company going in the wrong direction.

Nintendo are a lot like Morrisons, they are stubborn and refuse to move with the times, adopt a clear online strategy and give the consumer what they want. Hell Morrisons can't afford window cleaning at the moment.

The 3DS is surely their saving grace financially at the moment, but I hate to see the Wii U in this predicament as it's a great machine. They need restructure, and sooner rather than later or we may just have trophies and achievements in a Mario game. It's not impossible, we all said Sega would never give up the gauntlet....

But I hope that never happens. Good luck Nintendo.

I've never understood why market value is important to a company. Can someone explain?

As far as I understand, a drop like this just means many shareholders don't believe in the company's future.

This stuff happens all the time in the stock exchange... Nothing interesting to see here ya'll

@hiptanaka No share holders, no funds.

This is nintendo people. Before they give into mobile gaming I bet they think China will be their saving grace!! Wouldn't even be surprised if they dump all their cards into China!

@Technosphile So you're with people who think Smartphones are the best option for Nintendo?

Smartphones would be the end of Nintendo. All fun in gaming dies at that moment.

There will never be a mobile phone for serious gaming unless they sort out the overheating, bad battery levels that all mobile phone suffer from,lack of physical buttons and d-pads&thumbstick(s).

You can't play Mario style games on a mobile phone if there are no physical buttons, only stuff like swiping games, tower defense or gyro using games can be played with it.

@Kolzig Agreed about the smart phones comment, its quite hard to make, I saw another peson mention Nes Remix is a good alternative. I have to admit thats a good turnaround that won't mess with the classics but is new enough for people to care!

No worried about the share price as a direct will bring them up and then its just and up and down spiral as usual!

@MAB Then you clearly have absolutely no idea about the stock market and how it works.

... 'nothing to see here' (!)

Utterly delusional.

i don't like the idea of nintendo in mobile market... unless they make a smartphone...

but my idea is to make some tetrislike games (free) with some wii u and 3ds games promotion banners.

Look to the long term. This year they made a loss 225 mill, that may well be nothing to previous profits and Nintendo assets. Tough year, but overall maybe not a biggie.

@Peek-a-boo
And you sir, have little to no sense of humor. Stop being so pompous. Seriously, nobody likes a snob.

In that case, I shall attempt to go down the 'humourous' route (like MAB did) when Nintendo exits the console market.

... how about that, hey?

It's finally time to prepare for either the eventual downfall of Nintendo to smartphones... or prepare for the best games Nintendo has ever made. It is all currently hanging on MK8 and Smash... and Mario won't cut it. Lessgo Nintendo.

Really, Nintendo has so much $$$ worth of back catalogue and IP it just isn't funny.

Solution.

Flat monthly subscription fee for Nintendo's entire VC catalogue on Wii U. That's NES, SNES, N64, GC, Wii, GBA, GB, GBC, DS. Watch so many $$$ roll in it ain't funny.

this one is totally on Iwata, he made ridiculous projections and then investors lose faith in the company because they couldn't meet their projections... If he had made realistic projections investors wouldn't be as alarmed as they are now

@ferthepoet Yeah, he made projections based off of what the Wii and ds did instead of evaluating the current market trends! Grossly underestimated mobile gaming as a hugh factor. Not to mention that Japan for years has been moving away from console gaming!

@Baum897
'I really sound like an "Iwata-fanboy" - even to myself - by now, but he is excellent at his job'

I have to disagree with this. Don't get me wrong, I think Iwata is great as the face of Nintendo and I like the guy much more than shark-like executives that you see running western companies, he just isn't excellent at his job. He's solely responsible for the bad decisions the company makes. It's those bad decisions that have led to the Wii U's disappointing performance and the company's third consecutive annual operating loss. Again, I don't think he's a particularly bad CEO, but he's far from excellent right now.

@MAB
I gotta admit, I really enjoy your Spaced GIFs on a monday morning.

I just bought a car, should've held off and bought some Nintendo stock instead. This sucker is gonna bottom out soon and be really cheap with no way to go but up.

@ajcismo Yeah, don't worry mate. I'm confident that Nintendo will shake up the stock market soon

I don't know why but this reminds me of "Trading Places". That aside though, I wonder if this will make them start to re-evaluate their decisions and maybe get a new way of thinking that ends with some amazing ideas. I really do wish they would speed up the VC releases.

Maybe get one game for each VC system out each week? The flash sale would have been cool if there was more info on when it was starting.

Can we have a no .gif rule? They are generally obnoxious and add little value to comments.

@MAB Isn't that Spaced? Such an epic series.

I've been thinking about investing in Nintendo lately, because Nintendo's share price collapsed in the N64/GC era and then shot up considerably with the Wii. History can repeat itself. Even if Nintendo does the worst thing imaginable by going mobile, I'll make a fat profit. Lose/Win.

@triumph_forks someone call you the waaaaahmbulance.

@Subie98 Hello? Waaaahmbulance? I'M SHRINKING!!

Sure it's not to be taken lightly, but the fact of the matter is this kind of stuff happens all the time when a company gives bad news. Their stock will gradually rise again.

Despite everything, I think the 3DS is doing just fine. It was the best selling platform of last year and I am sure will sell like crazy this year. It's a "most-own" handheld. If people are bashing that ,they should already consider the Vita dead.

@cfgk24
Can they release games any more sluggishly?

BBC report stock dropped 18%, but fail to mention by day end it was down only 6.15%

@Artwark it means its a good time to buy Nintendo stock.... You buy when stocks fall if you think it will rebound later.

Hard to say when it will rebound, but it will eventually. Could be this year if they start to sell more Wii U's than expected. If they sell more 3DS than expected, if they sell more software than expected the share price will rise.

Stocks are about growth and beating expectations, when a company can only meet its expectations or fall short, the stock comes down.

@Technosphile never going to happen.

You'll see sony franchises on iOS and android before Nintendo drops out of the console business.... Nintendo releasing big installments of their franchises on hardware they don't make will be the total and utter collapse of Nintendo. The hardware business would fail utterly and they would become risk adverse as a software developer so the quality of their software would drop to that of EA, Ubisoft, Avtivision, Sony and Microsoft., and they would turn their franchises into annual installments, killing the company further.

Sony goes the way of Sega before Nintendo bows out.

@mjjferreira - Yes, it flew back up again . . . It will continue to rise. . . . . .

@element187 - Sony is much further along w/ it's franchises on handhelds than Nintendo.

http://www.pushsquare.com/news/2014/01/sly_coopers_the_latest_sony_series_to_sneak_onto_tablets_and_smartphones

I don't think anybody in their right mind thinks Nintendo should drop development on dedicated gaming consoles, only Pachter, but the constant - "We won't go there" - is what contributes to stock drops. People don't' like hardlines that leave money on the table. At least in the past few days they seem open to considering options, and I commend them for that.

Though they really need to get more of their old IP on VC before iOS.

@Subie98 Please do, and ask them to bring me a sandwich, the way your mother makes them.

Holy crap. That's big. But if any company can turn this around, it's Nintendo.

@Triforcepower73-
Funny and true!

@MAB Killing it with the Spaced gifs, lol

@triforcepower73

Hahaha, awesome graphic. Well said.

Hang on... It's being reported as $3B on Wii U daily, so who's right?

@BlatantlyHeroic Clap clap clap

@Jowy don't be fooled! There will ALWAYS be shareholders... Maybe not as many OUTSIDE investors (read as: chump/fool). You see, stock is sold to outside investors, while company execs (and lesser employees) are given,as part of their contract free shares and/or the option to purchase at discount. So you see, it's no real big loss to the company as a whole. This means they will not give themselves a nice raise this year, that is unless they turn this all around and make it seem this was their plan all along

@Damien LOL, you are wrong for that picture.

I would be fine if they just released Virtual Console for Smart Phones. This wouldn't hurt sales of their consoles. It is a smart move as ROMs are already so prevalent on them.

Why so sad pikachu?

@triumph_forks my mothers dead. Nice job.

@MAB lol

The first thing Nintendo needs to do is to sack whatever advertising companies they are doing business with, and maybe sack their marketing dept too. WiiU is a great product, and had a year head start on MS and Sony. Nintendo UK only thought about adding instore demo machines into Game a year too late!
Who other than Nintendo Lifers and existing owners looking at eshop knows that WiIFitU is out there? Yet another important franchise with no promotion - even inexperienced marketing people will tell you fitness stuff sells most in January.

In the run up to xmas hardly any ads were run, amazing games like Mario, not to mention Pikmin, 101, Zelda, et al deserve to br promoted. Other franchises have substandard updates, Wii Sport sold in tens of millions but WiiU Sports is an embarrassing update - it looks like it was developed on wii kit, not WiiU. The renting model for these are also too confusing to sell to new users.

These are the killer games which can sell consoles, what kind of company hides its best products from the wider market? Even the Club Nintendo mailings often dont promote new games until weeks after launch, if at all. All this is really basic marketing stuff, unless someone fires a fre rockets within Nintendo, the WiiU is going to have a long and painful death.

Well, I know that this is Nintendo, so they should bounce back to bright green soon. I know Satoru Iwata will get his act on now and suprise us.
@element187 You make me smile when I see your comments!
@triforcepower73 Haha!

Nintendo needs to get out in front of all this bad news. It's being reported on major news outlets that they are in deep trouble. And bad perception will only produce bad sales. Usually, I don't concern myself with this, but now I'm worried about my boys in Kyoto.

@Baum897 Fails to sell successor to one of the most successful consoles of all time.
"Excellent at his job"
I'm really not seeing it. Sorry. He is a horrible CEO. He would be better off with someone above him, giving him direction.

@Findonovan95 http://25.media.tumblr.com/ae6160c503f14b56e5e7de18d481ee9d/tumblr_my0pjjb1Ym1sif3tfo1_500.gif

The stock is still up from last year.

Nintendo need to explain their sales decline and their loss. But stop blaming Iwata. Iwata found out what was wrong with the company in 2003 and fixed it. Again, things are f*** up, but instead of blaming people for the f** up. I wish people understand the reasons behind it!

I am sure Iwata will find out what's f***ed up and fix it!

Personally, I think by building the Nintendo eshop and miiverse; things are going in the right direction as far as their digital ecosystem is concerned.

10 more days to know the destiny of Wii U. The day Nintendo would announce their new strategy plans to turn things around for the console and the company somehow. Hope everything goes well...

On the 30th you're either going to see an even bigger drop in price if they don't announce they're putting games on mobile, or it will shoot up if they do. I'm not personally saying that's the answer, but it's what the Japanese investors want to see and is what will affect the stock price more than anything.

Good time to buy if you predict Iwata will step down... Finally

Nintendo Phone

yes...

GameBoy Wireless

I hope they started on that Zelda U and SSBU early enough to get it released this Holiday season to pull Ninty out of this mess (of course it NOT being rushed). But i have a feeling for Zelda it wont be until 2015. But SSB probably this holiday. I heard form ALOT of people they arent getting Wii U UNTIL Zelda U is released and some for SSB.

it means some people lost some money. i wouldn't worry too much. nintendo will bounce back by march. then it will be all roses again.

Soo... why is Nintendo down $1.2 Billion if the company only registered a loss of 35 Billion yen? ("35 billion Yen ($335 million / £205 million)). This is the stock market at its worst. The sad thing is that the company hasn't lost that at all. Its "assumed value to people" has lost that much. Which is a little bit bad, but still...

As it is, there is only a few things I would want Nintendo to push moving forward:
1. - Nintendo needs to set up an account-based system that registers downloads for recovery. Even better, one that shares across 3DS-Wii U lines, (VC for example) but I will not push too much. I would be quite happy with just the security.
2. - Nintendo needs more games being made. Period. I don't really care (for the sake of this argument) if they are Nintendo IPs or not. I don't care if it is Nintendo or some other 2nd or 3rd party. As long as they are System-sellers, or quarter System-Sellers ("must haves" without the System-Seller status), I would be quite happy. With the combined 3DS and Wii U expected games list being less than the expected games for PS4 or XBOne(-eighty), it is looking grim on that account. Nintendo is Games. Not movies, not apps, not TVs or computers. Games. Make the games Nintendo. Games drive hardware sales.
3. - Seek the Future. I think that I would be upset, (but not completely lost in faith), if Nintendo stopped "console" in the future. Stick with Handheld. It is where I spend most my time and money. I prefer my gaming on the go like most others nowadays. I think Nintendo will do this or the next:
4. - Seek the Future (part 2). Maybe look into a system that actually is a hybrid console-handheld. Make a Gamepad that is the actual handheld. One that IS the next 3DS. A few games that requires the whole system would be assumed, but one that you can take with you as well. No longer does someone need to get two systems to play all the games. And more options for developers too.

1.2 million you know how many buckets of fried chicken I can buy with that!? I'm just so hungry right now.

@LordGeovanni

You totally nailed down my thoughts with #3 and #4. This is pretty much what I told my buddy last week when I started to see the bad news. If Nintendo could come up with a handheld that can push HD graphics to a TV, I think they would smash the gaming market. They always dumb down their console's power on paper since the Wii, it would make sense to me that they step up the power of a handheld console that would also look gorgeous on a TV set.

Being a gamer since the arcade DK days though, I'm not too worried about their future. And don't get me wrong, I love my Wii U. And I'm not a power hungry gamer. I own a PS4 and it's collecting dust right now until the good games come out. But Big N needs a better strategy for that machine, or come with a new console that will surprise us all. Another year like that and I don't see much of a future for the Wii U. This is worst than NGC era so far.

@element187
Ratchet & Clank and Sly Cooper are already confirmed for iOS and Android.

As for the Nintendo "doom" phenomenon, this will probably trigger Nintendo to make some drastic changes. That's just my guess. It's no secret that the OS needs to be improved., but it really depends on what they're doing behind closed doors, which only Nintendo knows.

However, some of us are more patient than others, which isn't an insult, by any means, but it does vary opinions on matters such as this.

@Peach64
Exactly. It will effect the stock price the most than any area, which is exactly why it's a bad decision. Moving their stuff over to mobile would not only weaken their brand, but require licensing and more resources than they currently have.

Nintendo on iOS and Android is basically suicide, considering the circumstances. Perhaps Sony will shine some light on whether that proves true.

Oh what a world? This is what happens when shareholders see the Wii is selling like hotcakes and then hear that Nintendo revised it's overly ambitious sales figures for the Wii U. Just because it isn't selling huge numbers as the best games are forthcoming doesn't mean that the sky is falling and it is time to sell. Oh well, I might have to look into buying some stock if the prices continue to drop.

I am sure most of us are Nintendo supporter here. Is it a good time to buy some Nintendo stock now?

I agree with alot of comments. And yeah Nintendo needs to do alot to get back up and for starters get a next gen console with exclusives that makes the customer wanna buy it. Wii U is unique in its own way but it really doesnt work anymore and we have clearly seen that with the poor sales coming out. The Wii was the "last nail in the coffin" soo to speak. I personally hope Nintendo get their asses into gear and starts listening to the bit more mature gamers out there. And for god sake do something about Iwata, he have shown what he can do and what he can't. It's time to get some new fresh ideas onto the table and a new CEO that perhaps have another visual aspect of it all.

The Wii U is a great console the marketing for it just sucks. I've let my friends play it and they prefer it over my PS4. They need to advertise the great games that utilize the gamepad and really show people that this is a new console not just a wii add on. I would also focus on the free online multiplayer and mii verse. I know I am not a marketer but still.

Okay, a LOT of answers, however I may have rambled a little...

@DJ-Spared
I actually hate the push for higher power and graphics too. I actually have a condition where I "gloss" over details. This causes me to blur an image when I am not paying in-depth detail to them. In other words, unless I look, there is no HD for me. I, instead, have received a whole NEW world through the 3DS and the 3D technology that was developed. I cannot explain enough how different it is to see detail when not focusing on it.

As for the "handheld that can push HD graphics to a TV," I would rather think of the system as a "base" that functions as the console like the "Wii" part of the Wii U. Then, have a system like the GamePad which can operate on its own if it leaves the surrounding area of the base. Games like the 3DS, VC, and 3DS Downloads would be capable on the GamePad system alone while the base system would handle Downloads and Wii U style games. Then, the VC, 3DS Download, and 3DS style games could be moved to the TV screen if you want, while allowing "additional" functions that are redundant to the GamePad screen. Sort of how a lot of DS and 3DS games redundantly issue buttons on the touch screen that you could also access through the Start (/pause) menu.

@teks4040
Wow. what a bleak message. Maybe Microsoft should have stopped as well. After all, it wasn't until the 3RD Windows that anyone actually got interested. Which means that they did HORRIBLE with the first two, right? And Edison made over 1,000 failures on a light bulb before he made a successful one. Too bad. Maybe he should have quit while he was behind. It isn't like you NEED light bulbs... By the way... it is almost dusk. Have a nice night... because there is no way for you to see after the sun goes down. Unless you have a surplus of candles you are hoarding...

While Nintendo may still focus on the "kiddie" aspect of gaming, BOTH XBox and PlayStation state that Nintendo is VITAL for their companies because the Big N brings in the most new gamers. Another issue you fail to realize is the Slippery Slope of iOS gaming. It is NOT the path to Eldorado. Phones were not made to play games. Games were not made to play on phones. These are NEW things that really (still) do not mesh. Even better, If people are demanding the Nintendo games so much, they will buy the system. Or Pirate, but who thinks they will buy the games anyway?

I know that you will not like this, but let us look at an example of what I mean. Squareenix. Great company that is the result of two GREAT RPG companies. Then the Dragon Quest series all but disappears. Then the Final Fantasy line starts to die with 11. It is an MMORPG. Then 12 is not liked as much. Then 13 is "a $50 movie ticket with a little bit of button mashing". Then a number of sequels to justify 13 as a "good game". 14 brings another MMORPG. They let TWEWY die without a sequel because they ignored their fans and decided to "worry about games that already have a dedicated following". Most of these, I would consider to be a poor look at the company. Then they move to iOS and even with them still around, I consider them dead. There has been about SEVEN Dragon Quest games that they haven't considered to localize outside of Japan. They will have to swim over to take my money. iOS is just one of these poor choices. Why would I want Nintendo to do the same? It is not like I have seen ANYONE playing a Final Fantasy on iOS anyway. And it "cheapened" the games as well. Why should they ever make a remake of any of them if people would easily ignore their $40+ game if they could instead get this iOS for ~$15?

@Metafalica
I am sorry, but I nearly laughed at your comment. First, the Wii U IS a "next-gen". It is HD while I still know a LOT of people in the USA, (New Jersey even) who don't even know what an HDMI port is. They just don't have HD TV. It is also capable of ENORMOUS potential that was not possible at the time that the PS3 and XBox360 were designed. XBox and PlayStation are too similar. It is why they both failed to be #1 and the Wii ended up on top. Microsoft is trying to call their XBOne(-eighty) more of a "whole system". Even still, they cater to the same people and have the same style of games that PlayStation 4 has. You want to see even more? Take a look at the cost of the XBox systems:

(Taken from http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-microsoft-losses-on-xbox-2012-6)

That isn't even just the XBox. It also doesn't show the ''production costs of the original'' And how is the Wii the "last nail in the coffin"? That infers that it is the "final loss that kills the (target)". Wii was SO not that. You need to think your statement out a bit more...

And to finish, about Iwata, just keep in mind that you are a Capitalist. Make sure to fork over your money for everything, k? Iwata is Japanese. They don't have such a strong Capitalist mindset as the USA (NA and Europe as well, but the USA is MUCH more arrogant with this). If he truly was that horrible, then the Japanese Board in charge of his job would have forced his removal from the company. If it really HAD to happen, it would have already have been done. The Board is (maybe not "happy") "content" with his current position. While that may change if Nintendo keeps oozing losses, it hasn't shaken them up enough yet. (Also keep in mind that Sony and Microsoft are Capitalist-style companies that have HEAVY roots in Capitalism. They are swayed for removal of CEOs quite easily. For the Eastern style, they allow one to fix their mistakes before lynching them...)

@AceTrainerBean Yes the Wii U is a good console in all and I agree that the marketing for it sucks big time. Perhaps Nintendo failed at that to begin with. Something must have been wrong since it didn't sell that well. @LordGeovanni Everyone has the right too speak its mind and yes maybe some are faulty but its a damn comment page and not an accurate forum and not the end of the world. Heck if I wanted to go around rambling with fuzzy and shiny diagrams I would do soo. I speak my mind on what I think it is in my own oppinion and doesnt base it on other facts then what I know of for my self. I dont speak for a community and I sure as hell doesnt speak for the world. This doesn't mean i'm right in everything I write, but it doesn't mean that the need for correction is there. Heck if I want to downgrade every commenter on this page that means I have alot of typing to do, but I think i refuse and skip that one.

@Metafalica That's non-sense what you're saying man. When you don't know what you're talking about, you should not comment, otherwise, you don't look so good. Especially on a forum / comment environment... Just sayin'.

I sold my Nintendo stock a week ago, after the excitement about the opening of China's markets. I thought there might be a drop coming following Nintendo's quarterly report. Looks like I had excellent timing on this decision. Of course, buying Nintendo stock in the first place was... not such an excellent decision.

Still, small victory for me. I wish Nintendo all the best in the future. But I am glad not to be a shareholder anymore.

@teks4040
Haha. That was probably 1 of the top 10 worst posts, that I've ever seen.

Nintendo needs to pull all remaining Wii U's from the shelf and start again. Run a huge marketing campaign, maybe even change the console's name. They also need new ip's!! Mario, Kirby, Zelda etc have been around forever. To get new players, new Wii U owners, Ninty need something new.
It's not looking good and god knows where they would be now without the 3ds.

@LordGeovanni Good points. Honestly, I'm not too concerned with the Wii U - there's nothing Nintendo can do but ride out the generation with the 3DS (like they did with GBA) while making sure the Wii U has one of the best libraries of all time to make those who did buy the system happy.

I'm more concerned about the next generation. If Nintendo continues their current strategy, then they will likely be trying to juggle TWO HD systems at one time, as the 3DS' successor would probably be about as powerful as a PS3. If they're struggling to juggle the 3DS and Wii U now, then they're going to REALLY struggle next gen. There'll be the biggest software droughts we've ever seen. They need to change their strategy.

There's 3 major options:
1. Go handheld only.
2. Make a handheld/console hybrid.
3. Focus on the handheld and switch from a traditional home console to a digital-only microconsole.

The microconsole makes sense seeing as how Nintendo's systems are bought for Nintendo's games and indies. A digital-only microconsole would be perfect for that.

@IceClimbers
I don't like downloads. I stay as far away as I can with that. The microconsole would probably irritate me a whole lot. That is also why I think the hybrid hand-console would be best for Nintendo. Wii U when your home, 3DS when traveling. Best of both worlds, and for one price for the system. Make it transfer my games from the current systems and possibly allow companies to hire someone (and Nintendo having to actually hire more people to have some available) to program the game in Nintendo's coding (or... you know, just make it a little easier to code for...) and I think it would be the best system ever designed!

Would it be so hard to start taking all the old IP's and drill them into the VC or better yet Classic 3d series of games. Sega seems to be doing pretty good with what they are doing with 3d classics and we have more on the way. This week has been just bad news after bad news. I don't like this week

Good investment opportunity it will be back soon and that's fast money.

So, where's the continuation to these news? Nintendo's stock returned to normal...
http://gaminrealm.com/2014/01/23/nintendo-stock-returns-normal/

@Kolzig i Know it may seem crazy, but i play super nintendo and n64 games as well as gameboy on my smart phone just fine! no need to wait for nintnendo to release these old games on their console which takes them FOREVER! also i mostly play killer instinct for super nintendo, on my phone. (Thats something nintendo can NEVER do for you!) They have to jump through hoops, we as consumers and our internet dont need to worry about those things, we just buy/download and play! simple.

And btw i learned how to use the touchscreen to do all kinds of combos on a slightly sped up killer instict. THAT says a lot! But if u want buttons... that can be aranged. just sayin.
I want nintendo to keep making consoles too but they need to stop being so damn closed minded and stubborn!! We almost want them to fail too, just in hopes that they get the picture and wake tf up! And stop half-donkeying everything!
_{Please watch the profanity — TBD}