Dylan Cuthbert of Q-Games - Nintendo and Wii U Need a "New Super IP"

Bulldoodies. Has this guy even heard of the eShop?

Pushmo is a great new IP from Ninty, but probably limited in long range scope. Taking a chance with something big and new would be nice if they want to expand the audience.

Wait I thought the Wii fit series sold 40 million?

Hello? What do you call Nintendoland? Nintendo is constantly creating new IPs, yet because they're new IPs and not a Nintendo staple, they're always brushed to the side, dismissed as crap/casual game, bomb in sales and only get 1 game in their series.

I would love to see Ninty expand on the Smash Bros and Nintendoland concept and create a Kingdom Hearts style game when original characters have to enter worlds/landscapes based on the different franchises.
That is my definition of a Super IP XD

@AJWolfTill KH style as in worlds, not gameplay.

They typically have a new IP on each system...Pikmin for GameCube and the Wii series on Wii (you may think what you like of them but they sold millions).

"They always come up with something"
Maybe, but when was the last time they did?
Also its hilarious when people say that the 3DS eShop games qualify as important new IP. None of those created is going to move onto retail and still be relatively good. Pullbox? No, it has very limited appeal - it's a simple puzzle game. Dillon's Rolling Western? Maybe if they rethought it - it's a very hollow drawn out experience at the moment. The Denpa Men? - It's a game based around AR, and besides that its just a standard RPG.

@Geonjaha: Last gen

So Cuthbert... How about a sequel to X-Scape?

@Geonjaha Steel diver and NLand are the only recents i can think of, the former of which bombed, and the second was dismissed as a WiiPlay minigame compilation. They do seem to be a bit more fixated on old franchises that were on life support for a decade or so these days -Pilotwings Resort, Kid Icarus and Luigi's Mansion for starters.

@LzQuacker - So seven years ago? Nice. Got any specific examples though?

Wii Sports and Wii Fit

Though....if you stretch the imagination, Kid Icarus Uprising could potentially be considered a new IP since it was radically different

What's this guy thinking? 3DS is amazing for smaller games like PixelJunk. His company even created many small, simple games for DSiware such as Trajectile, Starship Defense, and Digidrive.

Exactly right if they are not going to get third party to support the only way to expand their base outside the usual fans of mario, zelda ect is with a new IP although I think a Pokemon MMO could have as big a effect as a new IP, is the only game I could see turning tides in favour of the Wii U

I'd love to see nintendo come up with a brand new AAA type IP. They really haven't done anything like that since the early Gamecube years. Sure Wii Sports/Fit sold lots of units, but those werent really the IPs that most gamers were looking for. Those sold to people who, in all likelihood, arent really going to be interested in buying other games like Metroid or Star Fox or Zelda. Nintendo could use something new, innovative and appealing to the gaming community to show at E3 that will really get people excited. Yeah, mario, zelda and smash bros will do that too, but its been awhile since we saw something fresh come from nintendo. I love new Marios and Pikmins as much as anyone, but I wanna see something that hasnt been done before, too. It doesnt have to be a mature title, either, it just has to be really exciting and get people talking about Wii U.

@LzQuacker - Two games set around sport and fitness that were aimed at a more casual audience that Nintendo hasn't so far convinced to buy the Wii U in substantial numbers. There's no proof that those franchises are even sustainable in sequels. :/
Kid Icarus: Uprising was a revival of an old IP, and one which unfortunately has been stated wont have any more games in the foreseeable future - so that's another dead end.

@Geonjaha Xenoblade and Last Story are Nintendos IPs

@BraveBold5 Except published, not made by nintendo themselves. /fail

@LunaticPandora
Wrong
Xenoblade is from Monolith Soft and Monolith Soft is a subsidiary of Nintendo (owned by Nintendo) Like Naughty Dogs is a subsidiary of Sony so Xenoblade is a genuine Nintendo IP
Last Story was developed by Mistwalker, AQ and Nintendo and was then published by Nintendo Nintendo owns the IP
Sakaguchi has even made a interview where he explains that Nintendo had big influence on the setings, i can send you the intrevew if you want it, i just need to find it in the net

@BraveBold5 Not wrong. Nintendo EAD did not make them, 2nd party companies did, ergo they are not "Nintendo" IPs. Besides Xeno was on playstation before migrating to Nintendo systems almost a decade later.

Couldn't agree more.

People will, with some justification, moan about the lack of quality on the Wii.

However, Nintendo's decision to cater to the mainstream on such an unprecedented level allowed for great games to be made, too. Despite this, Nintendo has unfortunately acquired a reputation as being too flimsy/mainstream to be worth developing on. The audience is there - whatever the talk is - but somebody needs to start, and with big developers failing to commit to the Wii U, it's going to have to be Nintendo.

The Wii screamed of "new" - despite the incredible technology, the Wii U doesn't, and it won't until great new exclusive games are made.

Holy crap that's a great idea. There was no new Nintendo IP on the wii except for the titles that incorporated "Wii" into the name such as Wii Party. If there were to be a new face in Nintendo's roster I'm sure it could be used as a face to attract people to the struggling Wii U as well. A character that really takes advantage of what the system has to offer.

@LunaticPandora Monolith Soft is a Subsidiary of Nintendo do you now what that means
I dont belive Nintnedo developed Last Story too??
http://mynintendonews.com/2012/06/27/nintendos-influence-was-big-in-the-last-story/
That is not the article that i wanted, where Sakaguchi talks more about the development of Nintendo in the game but i guess it gives some idea
Whether you want it or not Those 2 are Nintendo IPs

@TromboneGamer You could argue that Galaxy was a new IP. It's not, but there was still that newness to it, and it attracted critical attention to the Wii like few other games. Gamecube had Pikmin, and numerous third-party exclusives. Something big is needed, either way.

@LunaticPandora And if you want more, i can tell you that Pandora Tower is also a Nintendo IP
Why dont you just search this on the internet?

He's right, Pixeljunk games are awesome and Starfox is even better. The end

I definitely agree. People are always whining about how Nintendo just re-hashes everything, and this would stop that and hopefully attract more people to the Wii U.

I hate to say it, because I don't personally play this genre much or at all, but Nintendo probably should come up with their own FPS for Wii U. Not just a CoD or Halo clone, but something that is uniquely Nintendo yet strongly appeals to the FPS "core" gamer crowd. And it would have to be big, with massive worlds, online functionality, gameplay that is as good or better than all other FPS games out there and something that uses the gamepad to it's fullest potential in a way that is natural AND fun. It has to make mass gaming audiances take notice and feel like they have to have it and play it.

@LunaticPandora
Want more profs? Just see for yourself with whom did xseed had to talk in order to publish the games on USA

http://kotaku.com/5918478/the-surprisingly-simple-story-behind-what-might-be-the-last-great-wii-game
In the article theres also mention to ip being a Nintendo property
"Why did Nintendo suddenly decide to let another publisher take its property?"

@Cosmo810 Well some say Metroid Prime is an excelente FPS, and it is But i also think that should make a new FPS IP Myamoto has even talked about that So lets hope for it

@BraveBold5 You don't give up do you? I don't care if nintendo owns studios that were formerly 3rd party, I am talking about fresh IPs made directly by nintendo themselves, ie. EAD, not a 'subsidiary,' which they hardly ever dp.

My wife and I had a 1 hour discussion this morning at breakfast about the low level of WiiU sales and I don't think a "new IP" came up once. The 2 games Nintendo needed at launch were Super Smash Bros. U (Ultimate, Universe, Ultra whatever) to gather the "hardcore" gamers and Wii Sports Resort Island to get the "casuals" to upgrade, who are never going to figure out what NintendoLand is all about - is it a city sim, is it a board game - even if Nintendo did do a better job of advertising.
It's been 5 or 6 years since Smash Bros, they should have had another 1 ready at launch. It's a game you can play for 300 hours so it has legs, plus it has Mario and Kirby for the kids and fighting for the teens and adults.
And there are a lot of people who didn't buy a Wii game console, they bought the Wii Sports game, a Wii just happened to be in the box. They aren't going to upgrade to a new Wii, no matter whether it's called Wii 2 or Wii HD or Super Wii, but they will upgrade to a new Wii Sports Resort Island that looks like a mash-up of a real world Hawaii and the Mushroom Kingdom w/ a large nightclub for exercise games by day and dancing games by night (videogame times, not real life times)
After releasing SSB and Wii Sports Island then they can worry about new IPs, but they need to sell the consoles first. And Nintendo is doing everything in it's power to not sell any.
Nintendo planning - make a new system a year before PS3 and Xbox successors so we can capture the hardcore market by putting out Batman and ZombieU and Assassins Creed and the casuals will simply upgrade their Wiis to WiiU to play NintendoLand.
Reality check - hardcore gamers aren't upgrading from a PS3 or Xbox360 to WiiU b/c the systems are too similar - it's a lateral move - and they've already played those games, the casuals aren't upgrading b/c NintendoLand is nothing they understand or want to play.

More on topic - Gamecube had Luigi's Mansions and Starfox Adventures (which probably should have been left Dinosaur Planet w/ or w/o Fox), Wii had Sports, Fit and Resort. WiiU has NintendoLand and Miiverse Warawara. Guess they could use a new IP. Whatever happened to that Japanese garden bird tech demo?

@LunaticPandora
They are Nintendo IPs
Arent Naughty Dogs games Ip of Sony?
Last Story was even developed by Nintendo, or havent you read the article? Monolith Soft belongs to Nintendo
These 3 IPs belong to Nintendo
But even if they where not developed by Nintendo, wich is the case of Pandora Tower, the IP still belongs to Nintendo They gave the money to it
I gaved you the proves What more proves do you want? I will not go on blindness discussions with you, search for yourself...

How about a fun GTA family friendly open world, all your favorite characters game, Nintendo. I'm sure it can do as well, and probably better than LEGO. It may not be the most original, but I have no doubt Ninty could add many fun and unique twists.

@LunaticPandora So, now it has to be a new Nintendo IP made by EAD? LOL
Does it really mater if it was made by EAD, 1 UP, Pokemon team, ganbarionor mistwalker? Nintendo has given us new IPs Last Story for exemple is a great JRPG
And Nintendo developed it with AQ and Mistwalker

http://www.nintendo.co.uk/Iwata-Asks/Iwata-Asks-The-Last-Story/Vol-1-Hironobu-Sakaguchi-Kimihiko-Fujisaka/6-A-Game-That-Gives-You-Energy/6-A-Game-That-Gives-You-Energy-234368.html

Iwata:Now, there was a point where Nintendo didn’t approve of the scenario. Can you tell me about that?

Sakaguchi:Ah, yes. I got a serious knockback. (laughs) But I think that was a good thing. That became the first reset point for the project.

Fujisaka:Ah... I found that pretty tough... (laughs)

Iwata:Yes, it must have been tough

I like this Dylan Cuthbert. He should become rather familiar with Nintendo again and create a game for one of their systems, I say. I can understand why these people leave Nintendo and create their own dev companies or join another, as Nintendo is very strict, but they are the best at what they do for a reason. I hope Monolithsoft's next game blows peoples minds, and perhaps Retro will create a new IP for the Wii U eventually.

@Midnight3DS In your opinion, what do you think the best IP would be for a Nintendo open world game my friend? I'm not sure, really. I think a totally new IP would be cool in an open world format. I really would love a Star Fox game from Retro before they move on to a totally new IP.

@Geonjaha Um, I don't know about you, but Wii Sports was a smash hit at my house. Sure, it's no Mario, but it was something new and interesting that moved a lot of consoles. The 3DS also has Kid Icarus - even if it's technically an old IP, it's revolutionary in nearly every other regard. People bought it for the promises that game held alone.

The Wii U doesn't have anything like that, though. They got a few that could be, like Wonderful 101, but they're just not getting the attention they deserve, mostly thanks to low advertising on Nintendo's part. I'm really hoping they pull out something really interesting at E3, like they tried to do with Nintendo Land, except with a game that's not a total sellout that just makes them look bad.

@Prof_Elvin_Gadd

Just a top of my head thing I guess. There's no doubt the open world genre is popular. I think an open world with all the loveables... Mario, DK, Zelda, etc.. would do the trick. Maybe too Kingdom Heartsy... I don't know. This isn't a big new IP idea, I realise, but still may be attractive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_products_published_by_Nintendo

Nintendo make lots of new games in every generation but the sales and media hype for these games are overshadowed by Mario and Zelda. My personal choice for a new IP would be a survival game like ZombiU but make it 3rd person, faster paced and less horror and more action. I also think the ability to play 2 player with the second screen needs to be utilised. I will be shocked if 3D Mario doesn't have simultaneous coop.

I think an HD Wind Waker, Mario Kart, Smash and 3D Mario (this xmas) will be enough to bring the Wii U out of its embarrassing predicament but they will need lots more games and then some decent marketing to keep the momentum when the other consoles are out. The delays so far have been terrible so I'm guessing that any of those games are vulnerable to missing 2013.

As for Monolith's 'X', I will only buy it if they keep the various English accents from Xenoblade.

@Midnight3DS It's cool! I was honestly just wondering what you think would be the best, in your opinion. Retro could do an awesome Star Fox open universe type game where you can fly through space and land on different planets to explore, do missions, ect.. I don't want to give out too many ideas as I am studying to be a game designer myself and don't want to risk people stealing my golden ideas haha.

To all that don't know what a subsidiary is do a little research. A subsidiary is basically a sister company. They operate independently but everything is still governed by the parent company. I worked for a company that did certifications for these companies .

In the case of Nintendo and Monolith soft here is how their relationship works.
As of May 6, 2007, Nintendo owned controlling interest in the company after Namco Bandai sold 80% of its 96% stake in Monolith Soft to Nintendo. This went into effect May 1, 2007.[3] Later Namco sold the remaining 16%, making Monolith Soft a first-party developer for Nintendo.

@Nintenjoe64
What about Shadow of the eternals? Hope they hit the crow-funding objective

@Realgamer4life Thank you for explaining that to the elephant in the room, honestly!

Kid Icarus: Uprising is criminally ignored by Nintendo. If they took the time to develop the franchise, it'd be a huge hit.

@LunaticPandora doesn't matter if there are new Nintendo made IPs or Nintendo exclusives like Donkey Kong Country for SNES or Goldeneye for 64, they need something, and while I love Lego City Undercover, thats not quite it, although along with Most Wanted U, I think it's a must own for anyone with a Wii U.

I never claimed they didn't need games, i just said Nintendo EAD hasn't made new IPs in recent years outside of N. Land and Steel Diver. Unfortunately i couldn't get into most wanted, I bought it because all the previews were making it sound very much like a Burnout Paradise successor, it wasn't quite close enough for me, and i've never really been an NFS fan.

I think Nintendo needs a new IP specifically designed for online multiplayer. It doesn't have to be a FPS, but it needs to be ambitious, something that many will regard as a must play. Look at what Halo did for the original Xbox. One IP can really expand a console's audience, if it's the right one.

I just don't really get the big deal about why the game must be from Nintendo EAD and not a sister company. What's the point? It's a Nintendo IP either way. I highly doubt people go into this much scrutiny for the other two hardware companies.

I agree with pretty much everything he said. Nintendo is it's own thing, and I've always own one Nintendo and another console except for the gamecube, which looked like a kids' toy.

@LavaTwilight Gives peanut for being good

@bizcuthammer I know a lot of people who bought a Wii to play wii sports or wii fit and then tried for the first time other games. Let's not forget that a lot of consoles are sold as a gift for kids, aka future players. In the same way Wii made a lot of people who never played start playing. I have non numbers about that, but I think even MS and Sony gain a lot from so called casual gamers. I think they should, even if we are not going to love that, Nintendo should publish wii fit U and wii sports U or something similar, to get a larger install base. Then we are going to see a lot of 3rd parties go to Nintendo. Large publishers today are no more interested in making appealing games (not saying they are not good, there are a lot) but in numbers 'cause investments need to be higher and higher and they need money, immediatly.

@bunnyking that's bad... Gamecube had a lot of really good games. Now you can get them really cheap and I think they are worth it!

@darkgamer001 I really hope The wonderful 101 will be a new blasting IP. Anyway, even with really great IP's like perfect dark (my all time favourite game), banjo kazooie, conquer and other from rareware, in the N64 era, the N64 didn't sold as much as. Ps1 or ps2. And, about that, we should not forget that the wii sold a lot because it was easily hackable...

On to another note. I am a big fan of retro remakes so I compiled a list of Nintendo retro games I would love to see them have developed by a all star cast of indie studios Now this list is no particular order and I know some peplle are to young to have heard of these games but trust me they were fun as hell.

1. Popeye
2. Pro Wrestling
3.Wrecking Crew
4. Urban Champion
5. Trick shooting, Barkers Bill's/ Wild Gunman/ Duck Hunt/Stack Up( bring back Rob The Robot)
6. Star Tropics, Star Tropics 2 ( Paid homage to Zelda)
7. R.C. Pro Am/ Rad Racer/Mach Rider/ F1 Race
8. Freedom Force

Those are just NES games youtube them and you can clearly see the appeal.

@Ricube

Same for DS and PS2. All 3 sold extremely well partly because they were a pirate's dream. And not the peg leg type...

@LunaticPandora
So you're holding Nintendo to a different standard than you're holding Microsoft and Sony? Neither Sony nor Microsoft have a "first party" of which to speak. SCEA was an independent development team that Sony bought out, and Microsoft owns IPs, but doesn't make any of their own games.

Although a new IP would be really nice, I would be happy of any really well made games, existing IPs or not. Hell, the last generation saw 4 or 5 main iterations of franchises, like Halo, Gears of War and Uncharted and usually not even Nintendo releases so many so fast.

@Midnight3DS That's exacly my point.

I totally agree that Nintendo needs a new "Super IP" to help the WiiU compete. I LOVE Mario, Zelda, Pikmin, Metroid, etc... but Nintendo needs an IP that has the appeal of a Mass Effect or Assassin's Creed game. A big 3rd person adventure, brand new, with the quality and flare only found in Nintendo software. Metroid Prime served as a good substitue in previous generations, but it's not new. Everyone's heard of Metroid and has a preconceived notion of what the game will be like. If they were to develope a brand new IP, a 3rd person adventure, and mass advertised it, they could end up winning this gen after all.

And it should be noted that Xenoblade 2 MIGHT be the answer, although many PS and Xbox gamers will be turned off by the fact it's an RPG (I love 'em but many people don't). To appeal to mass cross platform gamers, you need a game that appeals to the majority, and I'm not sure if an RPG will suffice.

In reality though all they need is a Mario X COD game and it will sell by the garbage truckloads

@JaxonH

Hey, the PS2 is hard to beat when it comes to RPGs. PS3 was a bit weaker in that area, though.

Wii Sports was a new IP. It had a sequel that came too late and it had the problem of too generic a setting and no real characters to latch on to (they tried to rectify that by making the island the character, but...). It also failed to point back to other Nintendo franchises like Nintendo Land now does.

It's not as if Nintendo isn't trying new stuff out. Like someone said above, when they fail, people just ignore it and say no new IPs.

Kid Icarus is a solid and important IP now. New? For all intents and purposes, yes. The original had a cult following and its new success has very little to do with the original game. I'm guessing the vast majority of its fans have never played the original or care that it exists.

Luigi's Mansion is definitely a more familiar IP and not NEW for many reasons, but Nintendo has made a big effort to stand it apart from the regular Mario universe and this new version solidifies it as an important and successful IP unlike the original.

What people really want isn't new IPs just fresh new games. It's okay to have a familiar face on it, or something from long ago in our past as long as the game feels like something brand new.

He's so wrong about the potential of the eShop and 3DS. Almost everyone is being trained by their phones and tablets to enjoy different types of games that don't require undivided attention for hours on end. Wii U is building up some real potential in that area. The Rayman challenge app (maybe ironically?) is a great example of what's possible.

As if I haven't said enough, it's really too bad Nintendo didn't have the forethought to merge their console and handheld hardware teams BEFORE the 3DS. If the development platform was merged, we could have had Luigi's Mansion, Kid Icarus, (maybe the Ocarina remake, StarFox remake), and Fire Emblem on the Wii U in the launch window. Next generation I'm betting every Nintendo game will have a repurposed game for the console and the handheld. Not identical, but share most resources and play to the strengths of each device without dividing the releases in half on each device.

Personally I stopped believing on "Killer Apps" a long time ago. Make a game appealing enough, advertise like crazy and plan a sequel.

Even though, in the current economy no one is buying a console for a single, marvelous game, and as Iwata said not long ago, it is harder to awe consumers nowadays.

Have enough great games, new IP or not, and that will slowly but surely build an install base. Nintendo is the master of the slow burn and evergreen titles approach, so I think they will do fine.

"Nintendo doesn't make new IP, Wii Sports doesn't count cause it's not core. eShop doesn't count cause they're niche."

There's opinions, then there are no win situations. Can't believe people actually entertained geo's comments on this post. Stop feeding him.

What does it matter if a new IP is developed by EAD or not. Isn't it enough to just have quality games from Nintendo owned studios/partners?

That's like saying Sony doesn't count unless it's SCEJ/Team Ico.

@Ricube I wasn't trying to bash wii fit/sports at all. I was just saying that it seems the majority of those who purchase wii fit arent the type to enjoy Zelda and Metroid games, which is true considering the wide gap in sales between the three series on Wii. I think nintendo should definitely continue making Wii Fit games for the people that want it, but i think the core gaming community wants a deeper, more exciting game to really show them why they should be interested in Wii U. Wii Fit may end up moving consoles when it comes to casual gamers, but most of the people who are going to be spending a lot of cash on several games per year are the core gamers that dont care about fitness games. I just think nintendo needs to flex its creative muscles and give us a new IP to show people "Why Wii U.". They really havent come up with a new core gaming type IP since... What was it? Pikmin on Gamecube in 2001? Thats a really long time. I know nintendo likes to reinvent its franchises a lot (Kid Icarus Uprising, Metroid Prime) but it'd be cool to see something fresh.

@brandonbwii

I love it how everyone you disagree with are tagged as trolls.

wait wait were all talking about new IP right? i thought wonderful 101 is a new IP? but eh i dont think eshop nor wii fit counts though i think what everyone wants is the next metriod or pikmin type of character that we can see it being interesting and having multiple games o.o

anyway to me they should focus less on mario games and more on 3rd party games that could end up in more IPs

@LunaticPandora Unfortunately for hardcore gamers (and your argument) the "Wii brand" series of games DOES count, was internally developed, and sold MASSIVELY. Your stance is null. Other than that, all I can think of is Elite Beat Agents, Tomodachi Collection (yes, it's JPN only, but it's selling in a big way) and Fling Smash. /argument

@brandonbwii - My point was that Nintendo have not created any sustainable IP recently that they can use in the future. Kid Icarus was revived only for it to be stated that no new games would be coming out, and there haven't been any announcements of any new Sports/Fit games being made. I honestly don't believe that Nintendo are going to bring any of their eShop IP to retail and have them be successful franchises - but you're free to disagree with me on that. Just because you do though doesn't make me a troll.

You make a few valid points, it just feels like your taking a dump on everything Nintendo. You're right, Nintendo mainly delivers the same franchises. I personally don't mind if Nintendo doesn't make new franchises.

Note that I consider "franchise" different from "IP". It was cool to revitalize Kid Icarus or the Excitebike series for 1 or 2 games. Do we really want Nintendo to COD these series?

The same goes for what they release on eShop. There's already sequels that released less than a year apart (Pushmo/Crashmo, Denpa Men etc.) I prefer them try something new more the time and not rely on a sustainable franchise.

SCEJ is a good example of "NEW" most of the time.

No, go with what sells to bring in customers and then also do a new ip but i don't want creative teams taken away from the hd mario and zelda just for this super ip.

eShop.

"Maybe, but when was the last time they did?"

@Geonjaha Uhm are you serious? They release new IP's constantly, just because you don't like them, they are there. Nintendo is by far the company that innovates the most. Sony/Microsoft stick to safe genres, they never push anything forward.

I guess Wii Fit, Wii Sports, Wii Play, Steel Diver,Pushmo/Crashmo, Tokyo Crash Mobs, Dilon games. Xenoblade Chronicles don't count as new IP's?

Nintendo also happens to be the largest publisher in the world. Bayonetta 2, Wonderful 101, Last Story, Pandora's Tower, Lego City Undercover.

Whens the last time Sony/Microsoft tried to do something new? Uncharted? Sorry, thats just a clone of Tomb Raider.... Killzone? No, there is a billion COD clones out there.. Dont get me started on how big of a joke Microsoft's first party output is, its even more pathetic than Sony's flat and uninspired first party output.

I made a forum post about lack of new IPs on the forum a while back and got the same replies about eShop titles and then third party games that Nintendo published. I don't care how much Nintendo support a developer, it doesn't make it a Nintendo developed IP. The fanboys on here might want to think otherwise, but it's generally accepted in the gaming community they haven't made a proper new IP for gamers since Pikmin. People go on about the Nintendo charm, well The Last Story is rather lacking in that. It's pretty average.

And the argument about what have Sony and Microsoft done is kinda childish. It doesn't matter if Sony and Microsoft develop no games for their consoles because so many others do. Everyone on here always states they buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games, so of course there's far more expectation on Nintendo. It's what they do. Every generation it becomes 'Just wait for Mario, Zelda and Metroid' and it's in serious danger of getting stale. At least on the other two consoles, the big games of the gen are usually IPs that were born in that generation. On the PSOne, stuff like Tomb Raider, Resident Evil and Crash Bandicoot were the big games, but in the PS2 era, people moved onto things like Devil May Cry, Guitar Hero, Burnout, God of War, Ratchet and Clank, Halo, Fable. This gen the big games have been Call of Duty, Assassins Creed, Mass Effect and so on. I love Nintendo games, and I know that Mario, Zelda and Metroid will always be GOTY contenders, but it would be nice to have some new, real games. Don't tell me I'm suppose to consider Wii Fit as a great game, no matter how many it sold.

I agree with some points @peach64, I have to say Nintendo published 3rd party games DO count. If Nintendo didn't publish them, then the chances of them coming would be slim.

So you don't like games like Wii Fit, it doesn't mean it's bad and I can't wait for Wii Fit U or something to release and then we'll have that silly "casual" argument when it sales millions.

I personally don't like Pikmin all that much but my argument is moot since there is a fanbase who does.

As for what I do agree with is the Nintendo cycle. Aside from the occasional 2nd party surprise they're quite predictable.

Also imo not all 1st party games are winners. I didn't like many Nintendo games on DS but it still became my favorite system due to, believe it or not, 3rd party support.