I couldn't disagree more. They play nothing like old school Zelda, which is why I object to lumping them in under "2D" despite the fact that they are 3D and are based on a 3D game, Windwaker. They are essentially puzzle games with an adventure theme, like the 3D ones. Rooms scroll beyond a single screen. Dungeons are divided into far fewer rooms, consequently. They don't feel the same at all, the focus is completely different.
I understand that PH and ST take place on a 2D plane of movement, but for the most part so does every Zelda game. Link has never been a flying elf, and moments that rely on the third dimension are somewhat rare. The camera is not completely overhead in the DS games, either, so it's not quite the same there either. So making that distinction seems far fetched. Mario is different because the non-NSMB 3D games rely on the third dimension.
I understand that PH and ST take place on a 2D plane of movement, but for the most part so does every Zelda game. Link has never been a flying elf, and moments that rely on the third dimension are somewhat rare. The camera is not completely overhead in the DS games, either, so it's not quite the same there either. So making that distinction seems far fetched. Mario is different because the non-NSMB 3D games rely on the third dimension.
Absolute nonsense. You say that ST and PH are 3-D, and then you argue about why 3-D Zelda games are actually 2-D?
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I said it's no more or less 2D than the other ones are, so saying those are 2D but the others are 3D is what's nonsense. Both are obviously 3D, regardless of the shift in camera angle. If you can't tell 2D from 3D, sounds like a vision problem. I recommend seeing an optometrist immediately. You'll probably be prescribed 3D glasses.
But seriously, he suggested having 2D games on one platform and 3D ones on the other. You suggested they already do this, so I explained how I felt they both played out, for the most part, on a 2D plane of action with 3D graphics, meaning the series are not distinguished by the 2D/3D split as he suggested they should do (which I would certainly like, as well).
Seriously 2D gameplay in TP??? like working your way up with the double hookshot in the city in the sky??? Thats not 3D gameplay??? anything like that in the DS zelda's??? Your not moving from low spots to high spots in the DS zelda's, there is not as mutch enviromental depth. The 3D in DS zelda's is purely cosmetic. How do you explain the ability to look at every little piece of the environment through link's eyes in TP??? Because every part of the 3D enviroment can be important for the 3D gameplay. The DS zelda's are parallel and play way different. They play very mutch like 2D Zelda's. (i am talking about the dungeon gameplay, certainly the boat and train sections are 3D)
As I said, there are exceptions. Twilight Princess is the biggest exception. Not only does it have the double grappling hook stuff, but there's also the iron boots early on (that would be interesting to do in 2D Mighty Flip Champs style, but it'd be very different). Still, the majority of the game you are moving left, right, forward, and back. Link is not a great jumper, and his tools for 3D movement only come into play in closed scenarios. Previous 3D Zeldas use the third dimension much less, too, though there are always exceptions.
I only meant that the games are not primarily or fundamentally that different, not that there are no differences whatsoever. The distinction between the handheld and consoles Zeldas is much more determined by the controls, story, style, vehicle gimmicks, etc, rather than the fact that the camera is held at a different angle. The same cannot be said for Mario. NSMB actually takes Mario's different kinds of jumps from the 3D Marios, some of the enemies, and of course the 3D look.
If we were to compare Phantom Hourglass to any game, it'd be Windwaker, not A Link to the Past. The games have much more in common with the 3D ones than the 2D ones is all I'm saying.
Maybe you are mislead by the fact that it looks and reminds u of a 3D zelda, namely: Wind Waker. In Wind Waker you can drift with a leaf above your head, from a very high point to a low one in te enviroment. You can stand on a cliff, look up at the sky or down at the enviroment. Falling down may take a while becouse of the depth. The DS zelda's have the same artistic style as Wind Waker, not the same gameplay.
Looking up and down is mostly unnecessary. Floating with the leaf could be done in 2D easily. Aiming the boomerang up and down is a superficial difference and for the most part adds nothing. The time it takes to fall down could be adjusted in a 2D world... but really, what does that even matter...?
When I think of the differences between the games, I expect game changing differences. For the most part, the differences in the 3D Zeldas are all local instances, not universal changes. It's not like the difference between Galaxy and NSMB, where almost the entire game of galaxy would be entirely impossible in a 2D world. Of course, there are a few local instances of 2D-ish areas in Galaxy, but these are not universal changes to how the game is played.
There was some fan project to remake Ocarina of Time in the style of the GBC games (probably abandoned by now, like all fan games end up). You can do this with Zelda and be very faithful to the game, despite having to make some obvious changes, because for the most part, while 3D does give it a different feel and has lots of minor effects, it is not hugely game changing. Now try to imagine Galaxy remade in 2D. All you could do there is take the loose concept of running around worlds, but you couldn't remake the exact levels because they rely on the ability to constantly move in all three directions all game.
Do you see the difference? Yes, you could go through each game and pull out every exception possible, but they'd all be exceptions, particular instances within the greater scheme. Maybe I am leaving something obvious out, or maybe there are so many exceptions I've forgotten that they would basically override the whole game (TP was my last 3D Zelda played, and I haven't played it since the year it came out), but in my imagination at least there is a key difference here. If you don't know by now from my posts across the rest of the forum, I am sort of a crazy person when it comes to theories about 3D games.
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Topic: The new Zelda!!!
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