Topic: Nintendo is Lazy and Doesn't Care?

I think there's some confusion with this. The name of thearticle is "Nintendo is Lazy and WE Don't Care".
HINT: "WE!"

Yes, yes it has. A lot. Compared to Mario or Zelda, it's really evolved.

"Toads never have names anyway."
Toadsworth says "hi."

But seriously, I think this debate has gotten more than a little out of hand. Fact is, Nintendo's games hold different values to different people. What a sur-prise! EVERY developer's games do that! There's really no good reason that Nintendo's get called out specifically like this while other dev's get a more or less free ride.

How extremely convincing.

You still do the exact same in all four games. I'm not knocking it. I enjoyed all of them. But they're definitely highly similar, gameplay-wise. Story and setting is what changes most.

well i wouldnt say zelda hasnt evolved much, i mean, it started out with a little boy slashing things and saving a princess to him riding trains and working with the ghost embodiment of the same princess
...
well i guess mario has too, from 2d goomba jumping to 3d planet jumping
...

There is a good "Iwata Talks" interview on wii.com about New SMB Wii that talks about how 2D Mario has evolved.

Apparently Shigeru Miyamoto, as early as 1984, wanted a simultaneous multiplayer full 2D side scrolling platformer game (Mario wasn't even in SMB until they saw the sales for Donkey Kong) and after SMB he wanted a game where Mario could "ride a dinosaur" like a cowboy riding a horse. He tried to introduce both in SMB3 but the NES wasn't capable of either. In the end they added suits instead of Yoshi. On SMW they tried again with both, got Yoshi and tried to use Mode 7 to scale the screen for multiplayer. Apparently it worked to some degree but was slow and unplayable.

As we know after that everything went to 3D on the N64 and the 2D platformer looked like it was dead. The idea was shelved (excluding Smash Bros) until New SMB on the DS and eventually that work turned into New SMB Wii. So really, New SMB Wii is a "lets make that game we wanted to make in the early 90's but couldn't because of hardware limitations now that the 2D platformer is popular again". Its pretty clear that Miyamoto has a bucket of game ideas that he throws around and waits for them to stick to something. If its too different it turns into Pikmin or something, if its a small they'll use it in the next Mario or Zelda (which are franchises too popular to shelve).

Another interesting thing about Mario. The early SMB that was almost ready for release didn't have Goombas it only had Koopas. They added Goombas after realising that it was too hard with just Koopas and they needed an easier enemy. The Goomba was created at the last minute with the little space they had left. Its just one 8x8 square that flips to walk so it had to be designed in a very specific way and thus the Goomba was born.

The only part IGN got right was that "I don't care". I really don't. Nintendo makes good games. I don't personally care about online play, I think achievements are gimmicky (I know, I know, motion controls) and I like Toad and Wii Music. I don't care about if Nintendo is lazy or not, so long as they keep on providing compelling games for me to buy.

Nintendo is lazy, and you all know it.
That doesn't mean their games are bad, far from it, but they never push anything...Nothing. It's played safe ALL the time.
The only real innovative game they've made recently would be Mario Galaxy, but even that was nothing groundbreaking, it was just a REALLY good game.
And this is IGN's stance. They never said the games suck, it's just that they don't innovate.

Nintendo's whole positioning IS that they are innovators, and they don't. The Wiimote? Awesome, but that was 4 years ago, they've done nothing to push the controls, and their games have been seen before.

Wii resort is a very fun game, but it's also very shallow. There's SOOOOOO much more they could've done. Online, 4 players, leaderboard, etc etc.
Oh and don't get me started about Wii Music, a game that COULD'VE actually been good.
Than we have online... A system so mentally retarded it's embarrassing to compare it to even the App store.

Nintendo games are still good, but you can't deny that Nintendo has been VERY lazy with their games and innovation.

I'm not so sure this is laziness per se as it is a lack of focus in certain areas. Nintendo haven't tried to push their online to my knowledge; they're focused in other areas as of now, but I do hope they will focus on their online in the future. I haven't played WSR yet, so I can't comment on that game.

And as this thread has pointed out, innovation means different things to different people. =D

Nintendo's ancestry is 'games'. Nintendo has reminded us that video games can be fun, not just a serious, practicing, devotion that no longer puts a smile on our face. What is more important to Nintendo this gen? Making a fun game. This has left some hardcore gamers wanting... but Zelda and Smash Bros. and even Boom Blox are very deep games, to name a few. This is a sign of the times. I truly enjoyed dropping $30 for Bash Party (Boom Blox 2). The game is fun. I have enjoyed it as much as MW2 ($60), for PS3.

That said: as I sit in my living room, the kid's have gone to bed, I still enjoy a dark session of Modern Warfare 2 on my PS3. They are two different experiences, two different costs, and two different frames of mind.

Do I care that Toads are getting some attention? Of course not... how humiliated is my buddy when Toad bounces off his head and sends him into the bottomless pit?

Finally, I thought this all ended years ago. If you want to play lots of sports games or Halo: XBOX 360. If you like first person shooters, racers or God of War: PS3. If you like Mario, Link, or having fun playing games: Wii.

dude both the 360 and ps3 have more then sports games and shooters.

Three words: Wii Motion Plus

When Red Steel 2 and the next Zelda come out watch as people get over this apparent lack of innovative games on the Wii..... for about a week.

Definately. But each system is developing an identity and that is a good thing. I play more than Mario and Zelda games on Nintendo, but that doesn't stop people from telling me 'that's all Nintendo has'. That is what defines Nintendo. I think there are a few games, (or in this case I used genres), that define the three companies. I know each has 'more' than that. I have the others, but it's a fact that each is doing it's own thing pretty darn well. And, they are different. If they weren't they would not survive.

Want to know the funny part of all this is. After complaining about the two toads and how the graphics don't push the system, IGN names New Super Mario Bros Wii (Score: 8.9) their "Wii Game of the Year", beating out higher scoring games like Guitar Hero 5 (Score: 9.3) and Madworld (Score: 9). So....yeah.

Simply using the word lazy is....lazy. Nintendo is very conservative and, well, cheap. It's interesting because despite how much we may complain about what Nintendo could've/should've put in their games, it's amazing that they never really NEED to. They are a pretty ambitious company if you ignore the whole hardcore/casual complaints. It took guts to make a fully touch controlled Zelda. It took guts to make something like Wii Sports, it's sequel and Wii Fit. They also squeeze every ounce of talent out of their second parties. Do you really think the Wii excite series would be as good as it is if it weren't for Nintendo.

Yeah, people can say Nintendo's lazy, but even to us that grew up with the company, has it really hurt their tried and true designs. Did it stop them from innovating with games like Excite Truck, Wii Fit, and Wii Sports Resort. They are on top because they don't need epics. They don't need a 256 player action game. Pokemon is just as enjoyable now as it was when it first released. The tweaks they make to established formulas still more often than not beat some of the safer sequels from 3rd parties.

On another note. If Nintendo did more than dip their toes in the online aspects that their competitors have dived right in to, they would own the industry. To be honest, I don't really want that to happen either.

Why are you surprised. IGN never said that the game was bad or poorly executed. They gave it an 8,9 and the Wii Game of the Year Award. They just noted that Nintendo took the easy way out in using two generic toads in the game next to Mario and Luigi whil they have such a huge cast of characters in the Mario universe.

That doesn't make up for their lack of software innovation and the motion plus is just finally giving the Wii remove the control that was promised when the Wii originally came out.

This is getting a little irksome, like this laziness is something new involving Wii. From a software standpoint, the biggest new IPs were Pikmin and Animal Crossing. This gens big IPs are Wii Sports and Wii Fit. Neither are as ambitious as the N64 era when we were treated to 3D gaming and a ton of new properties before being reused in the next generation and now this generation. As for Nintendo playing it safe. All major publishers play it safe. Assassin's Creed, Boom Blox 2, even Halo.

@hardy
Wii Fit, Excitebots, and WSR say hi. Plus, Mario Kart Wii is still one of the best online party games ever. When it came to keeping a franchise fresh, Mario Kart takes the cake with top notch steering control and steller online play.

Where is this promise everyone keeps talking about? If there was a promise to deliver innovative controls to push interesting gameplay then Bit Trip Beat, World of Goo, Mario Kart Wii and Metroid Prime say hello. Its not Nintendo's fault that other efforts have failed. The remote does work and it is innovative.

On the other hand, if you were somehow under the impression that the Wii would be 1:1 from the start..... I don't think that was ever promised. Now that we do have something close to 1:1 I am fully expecting Red Steel 2 to turn these controls up to 11... or at least 9 1/2.

haha... Wii Motion Plus truly is the Superman to the Wiimote's Thor. Both are awesome (if underutilized), but WMP really oughta shut people up for a while, as you say.