This is really interesting, actually, because we've been working on a new series of feature to the site, and this issue has played a role in it. Fingers crossed that we'll get it live for y'all very soon.
I do agree with you on some levels that Nintendo are alienating the audience, but you have to consider that they spent the GC era catering to the 'hardcore' and nearly went bust. You also have to remember than some of the onus is on the 3rd party developers, and only Sega and Capcom have really pulled their fingers out. Sega especially - props to you!
It's nice to finally see some hardcore games on the wii but it's too little too late if you ask me. After sticking with Nintendo since the NES, I finally decided I wanted more than family oriented games so I got a ps3. Right now I'm having a freakin' blast playing new ps3 games as well as catching up on classic ps2 games I've never played before. I'm realizing I missed a lot of really cool games by only sticking with Nintendo. The sad wii is just sitting there collecting dust. I love Nintendo but I'm not sure if I'm going to get their next console if it's gonna be the same family stuff all over again.
I understand that Nintendo has to rely on 3rd party developers to bring on the hardcore games but they should at least give us a new Zelda or Metroid while we wait. I seriously don't get why it takes them sooooo long between releases. This long wait is what finally made me hand my cash over to Sony.
Oh, we totally haven't heard this one a million times before.
But, seriously, though, Exitebots, The Munchables, Klonoa, Spyborgs, The Conduit, Little King's Story, Muramasa: the Demon Blade, Let's Tap, TMNT Smash Up, and various others are looking great. I think there are a lot of great Wii games out right now, and more better ones coming soon, so I wouldn't be so dissapointed if I were you.
Can we have a clear definition of hardcore here? I don't consider nearly anything on GC to fit the bill, nor most of ItsMeYouIdiot's (nice name!) list -- ExciteBots and Let's Tap, seriously? This hardcore/casual thing always leaves me confused.
I think of hardcore as meaning very challenging, like it used to mean, which applies to almost nothing Nintendo has made since the NES.
But this year looks good for challenging games: Murasama Demon Blade, Conduit, Sin & Punishment. I'm a bit indifferent about Conduit, but the other two are more than enough for me. I am somewhat worried A Boy and His Blob will be dumbed down due to the new level-based game play, but I'm excited nonetheless.
Melee and Ikaruga are all I can think of. I'm baffled by that statement, too. Obviously it didn't have the whole "casual" audience thing going just yet, but the games were still very light in comparison with the competitors' big games.
@itsmeyouidiot 90% of the games you listed i would recommend for my nephew there fore are not hardcore
Oh? Let's see, TWO 2d platformers, a pikmin-esque rpg/rts, a Ratched and Clank inspired action game, a TMNT game made by TEAM NINJA AND THE PEOPLE BEHIND SSBB, an innovative tapping game by YUJI NAKA, and a fast-paced racing racing game with surprisingly good online play.
How is it not hardcore? Would you rather have an onslaught of generic FPS games with all the levels rendered a uniform shade of brown?
@itsmeyouidiot 90% of the games you listed i would recommend for my nephew there fore are not hardcore
That doesn't seem like a very good definition for "hardcore" to me. Well, maybe that depends on how old your nephew is. If he's old enough to play Super Mario Galaxy or Twilight Princess, he's probably playing games that can very much fit into "hardcore" range.
That is, of course, assuming the definition of "hardcore" where the gamer is a HUGE gaming fan and likes engaging experiences instead of exercise and baby simulators (among other such things, of course).
My Backloggery Updated sporadically. Got my important online ID's on there, anyway. :P
Twilight Princess and Galaxy are very easy. I find their core anything but hard. At their core, they are games that require nothing special from the gamer except the devotion of a lot of time. That's not to insult the games. They're fine games, and each is actually my favorite of the respective series' 3D outings. But I find that definition of "hardcore" completely unconnected to the word's origin, which is highly misleading, and kind of useless. Why would we need to define games that way? Unless it's a party game, puzzle game, or sports game (or lifestyle software, but we wouldn't even call that a game), almost every game fits into this category. We can just list titles by genre if that's the case.
Wtf is up with all this "hardcore" stuff? Is hardcore simply "hard"? If what you want are hard games then buy an effing NES. If you're talking in terms of Halo 3, Fallout 3, Mass Effect, etc., then you should own an Xbox or PS3. From what I've heard, those games aren't necessarily hard either - they just have a bit fat M slapped on their covers. Nintendo doesn't make those kind of games, and hasn't in decades - the closest they have and ever will get was Metroid Prime 3. I think the last truly hard game Nintendo made was Super Mario World, Super Metroid, or Yoshi's Island, all for the SNES.
If anything, Nintendo's helping more "hardcore" games come to the Wii, by developing and releasing Wii MotionPlus this summer. They have no control over what third party developers are making. If they want to make shovelware crap, then complain to them, not Nintendo. Yes, you may argue about the recently released NPC titles. Granted, they're just quick cash-ins to make some quicky moolah. However, my belief is Nintendo will be releasing a flood of AAA games this winter and next year, after the release of Wii M+. It makes sense: Why develop new software for soon-to-be-redundant hardware?
Until then, content yourself with MadWorld, House of the Dead, The Conduit, Resident Evil 4, the upcoming Resident Evil UC, Silent Hill, and geez, so many more.
Exactly, I'm sick of all this labeling "This is casual, this is Hardcore" BS!
Let me define what Hardcore and Casual is...
Casual Games: A pick up an play game, that requires the least ammount of introduction, doesn't require a completcated plot, easy controls, and can be played by any one.
Examples: Wii Sports, Peggle, Uno, Elephunk, Halo (yes Halo, it brought a lot of FPS newbies into the genre), Super Mario Bros, Tetris, Sonic the Hedgehog, Monkey Ball, World of Warcraft, Phonix Wright, Excite Bike, Loco Roco, and Rock Band.
Hardcore games: A Game that requires a certain ammount of skill with a steep learning curve, may contain a completcated plot, requires some/a lot experience to play, are played by those who have played games for a long time.
Examples: Ikaruga, Radiant Silver Gun, MegaMan/X/Zero, Ninja Gaiden, FinalFantasy, DragonQuest, Guilty Gear/X/XX, EverQuest, FinalFantasy XI Online, Mars Matrix, The World Ends With You, Shin Megami Tensei, Valkyrie Profile, and Embodiment of the Scarlet Devil.
The Problem that I have is that people are using "Casual" and "Hardcore" incorrectly, as if "Casual" is a bad game, and "Hardcore" is a good game. But in the eye of a Gramer, the only games they want to see must have violence, sex, gore, etc... but THIS IS NOT HARDCORE! That's a "mature" game, something that a younger gamer can't/shouldn't play. Just because something maybe perceived as cutesy or childish, doesn't mean it's going to be a bad game, Hell I still Animal Crossing once or twice a week and I'm 25! I don't care if it looks like a baby game, because it's a good game! Sure it's not hardcore, but it's a great game on the DS.
It's about time that these silly people actually figure out out hardcore and casual games are.
Oh and btw, almost every XBox360 owner has Uno in their Game list, so stop trying to be all "I'm the hardest hardcore gamer ever" when you own the most casual game in existance!
Exactly, I'm sick of all this labeling "This is casual, this is Hardcore" BS!
Good points there, SepticLemon! There is so much confusion about "hardcore" that the term is more or less useless. A swedish newspaper explained "casual" as "games played with alternate kinds of controllers", and too often "hardcore" is mixed up with "mature".
To me, a game like Super Mario Bros might as well be called hardcore because of its wellplanned and demanding leveldesign, while a game like Umbrella Chronicles is a "casual" game because of the simple gameplay. I think everyone can agree that a family-oriented partygame is a casual game, but most people have their own ideas when it comes to what´s hardcore.
Haha, Septic, did you just say you were sick of labeling games casual and hardcore, then proceed to list your own casual and hardcore labels?
Personally, I'd be happy if the words were just abandoned. I get through my everyday life fine without ever using these terms, and about 50% of my conversations are about video games.
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Topic: NINTENDO is alienating its hardcore audience
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