Any game can have collectible items though, that's not really a genre defining trait. I can name dozens of games from various genres that also have optional collectibles. So item collecting has to be a required part of the gameplay. But even that is not enough. After all, you collect Green Stars to progress in 3D World, but most people would probably agree that that doesn't make 3D World a collectathon because the gameplay still consists of platforming through linear levels to reach the goal. But in 64, Sunshine, and Galaxy, your main goal is to collect Power Stars/Shine Sprites. Likewise with Banjo-Kazooie, Jak and Daxter, Spyro, Ty the Tasmanian Tiger, etc. So that would be more genre defining.
But aren't the Power Stars / Shine Sprites in those games similar to the Goal Post in 3D Land / World? I mean, whenever you enter a level, your goal is to reach the Power Star / Shine Sprite, and although I see the difference, it's so small to me that I'd argue that 3D Land / World are semi-collectathons or that Super Mario 64 / Sunshine / Galaxy / 2 only are semi-collectathon games. Both have collecting aspects, both have you reach a goal, the Galaxy games even have the somewhat linear structure that we see in 3D Land / World. I'm not saying that it has to be either or, but what are the criteria to be called a collectathon? Because after reading this thread, the line seems quite blurry to me.
Any game can have collectible items though, that's not really a genre defining trait. I can name dozens of games from various genres that also have optional collectibles. So item collecting has to be a required part of the gameplay. But even that is not enough. After all, you collect Green Stars to progress in 3D World, but most people would probably agree that that doesn't make 3D World a collectathon because the gameplay still consists of platforming through linear levels to reach the goal. But in 64, Sunshine, and Galaxy, your main goal is to collect Power Stars/Shine Sprites. Likewise with Banjo-Kazooie, Jak and Daxter, Spyro, Ty the Tasmanian Tiger, etc. So that would be more genre defining.
But aren't the Power Stars / Shine Sprites in those games similar to the Goal Post in 3D Land / World? I mean, whenever you enter a level, your goal is to reach the Power Star / Shine Sprite, and although I see the difference, it's so small to me that I'd argue that 3D Land / World are semi-collectathons or that Super Mario 64 / Sunshine / Galaxy / 2 only are semi-collectathon games. Both have collecting aspects, both have you reach a goal, the Galaxy games even have the somewhat linear structure that we see in 3D Land / World. I'm not saying that it has to be either or, but what are the criteria to be called a collectathon? Because after reading this thread, the line seems quite blurry to me.
The difference is in games like Super Mario 64, Banjo-Kazooie, Donkey Kong 64, Jak and Daxter, etc, in each level you can collect the stars, jiggies, bananas, power cells, etc in almost any order you want, while in 3D Land/World you have to follow a linear path for collecting the flag-posts.
New PS4 owner
Yeah, guitars are cool.
My musical project Comet Tail made a couple of recordings.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0zUoWWO1v4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2evBddvrm2U
Make a new 3D collectathon Donkey Kong game. Keep the multiple character system, but make the controls tighter than in 64, and make it so that you can collect any bananas with any character, but still have character exclusive golden bananas
New PS4 owner
Yeah, guitars are cool.
My musical project Comet Tail made a couple of recordings.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0zUoWWO1v4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2evBddvrm2U
Any game can have collectible items though, that's not really a genre defining trait. I can name dozens of games from various genres that also have optional collectibles. So item collecting has to be a required part of the gameplay. But even that is not enough. After all, you collect Green Stars to progress in 3D World, but most people would probably agree that that doesn't make 3D World a collectathon because the gameplay still consists of platforming through linear levels to reach the goal. But in 64, Sunshine, and Galaxy, your main goal is to collect Power Stars/Shine Sprites. Likewise with Banjo-Kazooie, Jak and Daxter, Spyro, Ty the Tasmanian Tiger, etc. So that would be more genre defining.
But aren't the Power Stars / Shine Sprites in those games similar to the Goal Post in 3D Land / World? I mean, whenever you enter a level, your goal is to reach the Power Star / Shine Sprite, and although I see the difference, it's so small to me that I'd argue that 3D Land / World are semi-collectathons or that Super Mario 64 / Sunshine / Galaxy / 2 only are semi-collectathon games. Both have collecting aspects, both have you reach a goal, the Galaxy games even have the somewhat linear structure that we see in 3D Land / World. I'm not saying that it has to be either or, but what are the criteria to be called a collectathon? Because after reading this thread, the line seems quite blurry to me.
Well nothing is an exact science, there's always gray areas. Galaxy is a good example, the levels tend to be more linear but you're still collecting Stars to win. Anyway, most collectathons either there's no defined path through the level (64, Sunshine, Banjo-Kazooie) or the level has multiple paths or tends to loop back on itself (Jak and Daxter, Spyro, Ty). So there's usually not an end to the level, or if there is it's more like "Hey, here's where you exit the level when you're done, now keep going and find stuff".
I think that Nintendo is taking it to a whole new level of Collectathon by turning it into a real life game with the Amiibo's and the recent LE 3DS Systems..
Any game can have collectible items though, that's not really a genre defining trait. I can name dozens of games from various genres that also have optional collectibles. So item collecting has to be a required part of the gameplay. But even that is not enough. After all, you collect Green Stars to progress in 3D World, but most people would probably agree that that doesn't make 3D World a collectathon because the gameplay still consists of platforming through linear levels to reach the goal. But in 64, Sunshine, and Galaxy, your main goal is to collect Power Stars/Shine Sprites. Likewise with Banjo-Kazooie, Jak and Daxter, Spyro, Ty the Tasmanian Tiger, etc. So that would be more genre defining.
But aren't the Power Stars / Shine Sprites in those games similar to the Goal Post in 3D Land / World? I mean, whenever you enter a level, your goal is to reach the Power Star / Shine Sprite, and although I see the difference, it's so small to me that I'd argue that 3D Land / World are semi-collectathons or that Super Mario 64 / Sunshine / Galaxy / 2 only are semi-collectathon games. Both have collecting aspects, both have you reach a goal, the Galaxy games even have the somewhat linear structure that we see in 3D Land / World. I'm not saying that it has to be either or, but what are the criteria to be called a collectathon? Because after reading this thread, the line seems quite blurry to me.
Well nothing is an exact science, there's always gray areas. Galaxy is a good example, the levels tend to be more linear but you're still collecting Stars to win. Anyway, most collectathons either there's no defined path through the level (64, Sunshine, Banjo-Kazooie) or the level has multiple paths or tends to loop back on itself (Jak and Daxter, Spyro, Ty). So there's usually not an end to the level, or if there is it's more like "Hey, here's where you exit the level when you're done, now keep going and find stuff".
Don't forget, in Galaxy has you collecting star bits to feed hungry lumas. Some of them need 1000s of star bits so you can say that the star bits have a "collectathon" aspect as well, even if they respawn after you die or exit a level.
Any game can have collectible items though, that's not really a genre defining trait. I can name dozens of games from various genres that also have optional collectibles. So item collecting has to be a required part of the gameplay. But even that is not enough. After all, you collect Green Stars to progress in 3D World, but most people would probably agree that that doesn't make 3D World a collectathon because the gameplay still consists of platforming through linear levels to reach the goal. But in 64, Sunshine, and Galaxy, your main goal is to collect Power Stars/Shine Sprites. Likewise with Banjo-Kazooie, Jak and Daxter, Spyro, Ty the Tasmanian Tiger, etc. So that would be more genre defining.
But aren't the Power Stars / Shine Sprites in those games similar to the Goal Post in 3D Land / World? I mean, whenever you enter a level, your goal is to reach the Power Star / Shine Sprite, and although I see the difference, it's so small to me that I'd argue that 3D Land / World are semi-collectathons or that Super Mario 64 / Sunshine / Galaxy / 2 only are semi-collectathon games. Both have collecting aspects, both have you reach a goal, the Galaxy games even have the somewhat linear structure that we see in 3D Land / World. I'm not saying that it has to be either or, but what are the criteria to be called a collectathon? Because after reading this thread, the line seems quite blurry to me.
Well nothing is an exact science, there's always gray areas. Galaxy is a good example, the levels tend to be more linear but you're still collecting Stars to win. Anyway, most collectathons either there's no defined path through the level (64, Sunshine, Banjo-Kazooie) or the level has multiple paths or tends to loop back on itself (Jak and Daxter, Spyro, Ty). So there's usually not an end to the level, or if there is it's more like "Hey, here's where you exit the level when you're done, now keep going and find stuff".
Don't forget, in Galaxy has you collecting star bits to feed hungry lumas. Some of them need 1000s of star bits so you can say that the star bits have a "collectathon" aspect as well, even if they respawn after you die or exit a level.
That's usually optional though. I can't think of a single section of the game where that's mandatory aside from the tutorial in the first game.
I would very much like that if they remade some game (sunshine!) or if they just made a completely new one! Maybe a new IP would be nice...
Well they remade Wind Waker HD. They also remade OOT and MM. They recently reissued Super Mario Galaxy 2. I think Super Mario Sunshine has at least a sporting chance...
Long ago back in the ancient times known as 5th gen when platformers ruled the Earth, we saw a lot of 3D platformers which involved exploring open worlds and collecting certain objects to progress in the game (such as Super Mario 64, Banjo-Kazooie, Spyro, etc.) which we now refer to as collectathon platformers. Fast forward to now and the majority of those games died as platformers lost popularity, and even Nintendo which favors platformers has shifted towards linear 3D games like 3D Land and 3D World, leaving the collectathon genre pretty much dead (aside from a handful of indie games). Do you think Nintendo should bring this genre back? And if so, how should they, should they continue an existing series, make a new IP, or something else?
Why don't you count Captain Toad as a "collectathon" game?
Long ago back in the ancient times known as 5th gen when platformers ruled the Earth, we saw a lot of 3D platformers which involved exploring open worlds and collecting certain objects to progress in the game (such as Super Mario 64, Banjo-Kazooie, Spyro, etc.) which we now refer to as collectathon platformers. Fast forward to now and the majority of those games died as platformers lost popularity, and even Nintendo which favors platformers has shifted towards linear 3D games like 3D Land and 3D World, leaving the collectathon genre pretty much dead (aside from a handful of indie games). Do you think Nintendo should bring this genre back? And if so, how should they, should they continue an existing series, make a new IP, or something else?
Why don't you count Captain Toad as a "collectathon" game?
I'm assuming the reason is because it's not a 3D platformer. People usually associate the term "collectathon" with 3D platformers like Banjo Kazooie and Spyro.
Storytime7
3DS Friend Code: 4124-5304-9315 | Nintendo Network ID: storytime7
Long ago back in the ancient times known as 5th gen when platformers ruled the Earth, we saw a lot of 3D platformers which involved exploring open worlds and collecting certain objects to progress in the game (such as Super Mario 64, Banjo-Kazooie, Spyro, etc.) which we now refer to as collectathon platformers. Fast forward to now and the majority of those games died as platformers lost popularity, and even Nintendo which favors platformers has shifted towards linear 3D games like 3D Land and 3D World, leaving the collectathon genre pretty much dead (aside from a handful of indie games). Do you think Nintendo should bring this genre back? And if so, how should they, should they continue an existing series, make a new IP, or something else?
Why don't you count Captain Toad as a "collectathon" game?
I'm assuming the reason is because it's not a 3D platformer. People usually associate the term "collectathon" with 3D platformers like Banjo Kazooie and Spyro.
New PS4 owner
Yeah, guitars are cool.
My musical project Comet Tail made a couple of recordings.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0zUoWWO1v4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2evBddvrm2U
Any game can have collectible items though, that's not really a genre defining trait. I can name dozens of games from various genres that also have optional collectibles. So item collecting has to be a required part of the gameplay. But even that is not enough. After all, you collect Green Stars to progress in 3D World, but most people would probably agree that that doesn't make 3D World a collectathon because the gameplay still consists of platforming through linear levels to reach the goal. But in 64, Sunshine, and Galaxy, your main goal is to collect Power Stars/Shine Sprites. Likewise with Banjo-Kazooie, Jak and Daxter, Spyro, Ty the Tasmanian Tiger, etc. So that would be more genre defining.
But aren't the Power Stars / Shine Sprites in those games similar to the Goal Post in 3D Land / World? I mean, whenever you enter a level, your goal is to reach the Power Star / Shine Sprite, and although I see the difference, it's so small to me that I'd argue that 3D Land / World are semi-collectathons or that Super Mario 64 / Sunshine / Galaxy / 2 only are semi-collectathon games. Both have collecting aspects, both have you reach a goal, the Galaxy games even have the somewhat linear structure that we see in 3D Land / World. I'm not saying that it has to be either or, but what are the criteria to be called a collectathon? Because after reading this thread, the line seems quite blurry to me.
Well nothing is an exact science, there's always gray areas. Galaxy is a good example, the levels tend to be more linear but you're still collecting Stars to win. Anyway, most collectathons either there's no defined path through the level (64, Sunshine, Banjo-Kazooie) or the level has multiple paths or tends to loop back on itself (Jak and Daxter, Spyro, Ty). So there's usually not an end to the level, or if there is it's more like "Hey, here's where you exit the level when you're done, now keep going and find stuff".
Don't forget, in Galaxy has you collecting star bits to feed hungry lumas. Some of them need 1000s of star bits so you can say that the star bits have a "collectathon" aspect as well, even if they respawn after you die or exit a level.
That's usually optional though. I can't think of a single section of the game where that's mandatory aside from the tutorial in the first game.
All making stuff like that compulsory would do is ruin the game for people who hate that. (There is enough timewasting in it as it is).
“30fps Is Not a Good Artistic Decision, It's a Failure”
Freedom of the press is for those who happen to own one.
Any game can have collectible items though, that's not really a genre defining trait. I can name dozens of games from various genres that also have optional collectibles. So item collecting has to be a required part of the gameplay. But even that is not enough. After all, you collect Green Stars to progress in 3D World, but most people would probably agree that that doesn't make 3D World a collectathon because the gameplay still consists of platforming through linear levels to reach the goal. But in 64, Sunshine, and Galaxy, your main goal is to collect Power Stars/Shine Sprites. Likewise with Banjo-Kazooie, Jak and Daxter, Spyro, Ty the Tasmanian Tiger, etc. So that would be more genre defining.
But aren't the Power Stars / Shine Sprites in those games similar to the Goal Post in 3D Land / World? I mean, whenever you enter a level, your goal is to reach the Power Star / Shine Sprite, and although I see the difference, it's so small to me that I'd argue that 3D Land / World are semi-collectathons or that Super Mario 64 / Sunshine / Galaxy / 2 only are semi-collectathon games. Both have collecting aspects, both have you reach a goal, the Galaxy games even have the somewhat linear structure that we see in 3D Land / World. I'm not saying that it has to be either or, but what are the criteria to be called a collectathon? Because after reading this thread, the line seems quite blurry to me.
Well nothing is an exact science, there's always gray areas. Galaxy is a good example, the levels tend to be more linear but you're still collecting Stars to win. Anyway, most collectathons either there's no defined path through the level (64, Sunshine, Banjo-Kazooie) or the level has multiple paths or tends to loop back on itself (Jak and Daxter, Spyro, Ty). So there's usually not an end to the level, or if there is it's more like "Hey, here's where you exit the level when you're done, now keep going and find stuff".
Don't forget, in Galaxy has you collecting star bits to feed hungry lumas. Some of them need 1000s of star bits so you can say that the star bits have a "collectathon" aspect as well, even if they respawn after you die or exit a level.
That's usually optional though. I can't think of a single section of the game where that's mandatory aside from the tutorial in the first game.
All making stuff like that compulsory would do is ruin the game for people who hate that. (There is enough timewasting in it as it is).
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's worthless.
I would welcome the return of proper collectathon games in the vein of Donkey Kong 64, Banjo Kazooie, or Gex. Since I played so many of those as a kid I almost consider it to be my favorite genre but in order for it to work we need to go back to large open areas for levels and a big hub world to roam around in and explore. That was what made those games so great and a return to that would make me pretty happy!
Super Mario Maker 2 Levels:
A Frolic through the Forest
M5T-48G-5XF
The Trials of the Haunted House
4VR-6KC-Q1G
Platforming Peril
LCS-S3G-XQG
3DS Friend Code: 2251-6206-1680 | Nintendo Network ID: Dpishere
All making stuff like that compulsory would do is ruin the game for people who hate that. (There is enough timewasting in it as it is).
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's worthless.
This. I love collecting. It's fun to me. I love Super Mario 64. I love Banjo-Kazooie and Banjo Tooie. I love Spyro the Dragon. I love Donkey Kong 64. I love Jak and Daxter. I miss collectathons
New PS4 owner
Yeah, guitars are cool.
My musical project Comet Tail made a couple of recordings.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0zUoWWO1v4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2evBddvrm2U
To elaborate, time wasting is the entire point of open world games. There's a reason that open world games are often referred to as sandboxes, because they're designed to be explored and for you to mess around in them. The mandatory collecting encourages this as well, by throwing you into an open level and tasking you with finding items, it encourages you to take your time and explore the level. Wanting to blow through the game is missing the point of the entire genre. And so what if it's off putting to some? So is every genre. I don't like RTS games but you don't hear me saying it should wither and die. If you don't like it, fine, but just because it doesn't appeal to you personally doesn't mean that others wouldn't buy it.
Long ago back in the ancient times known as 5th gen when platformers ruled the Earth, we saw a lot of 3D platformers which involved exploring open worlds and collecting certain objects to progress in the game (such as Super Mario 64, Banjo-Kazooie, Spyro, etc.) which we now refer to as collectathon platformers. Fast forward to now and the majority of those games died as platformers lost popularity, and even Nintendo which favors platformers has shifted towards linear 3D games like 3D Land and 3D World, leaving the collectathon genre pretty much dead (aside from a handful of indie games). Do you think Nintendo should bring this genre back? And if so, how should they, should they continue an existing series, make a new IP, or something else?
Why don't you count Captain Toad as a "collectathon" game?
While Captain Toad is technically a "collectathon", especially the stages that need you to collect a hidden golden mushroom or have a coin quota, it doesn't play like a traditional platformer since Toad cannot jump and the levels are tiny and modular. Many are just floating cubes. Still a fun game, but a departure from open world platformers such as early 3d Marios or Zelda. And contrary to popular belief, Zelda does have limited jumping ability, since you can clear small gaps in games like OOT using an auto jump mechanic where he leaps off ledges. He can also climb up small ledges.
Another big difference between older 3D Marios and newer ones like 3D World/Land, is the way they are constructed. Mario 64 and Sunshine were open world universes with organic forms and architectural structures. 3D World / Land have most of the areas confined to a rigid grid. Compare the Hazy Maze Cave in Mario 64 to the underground levels in 3D Land / World. The Hazy Maze cave feels like you are exploring a real cavernous area. The levels in Super Mario 3D Land / World feel like a mostly linear grid level such as World 1-2 in Super Mario Brothers, except that it has depth to it. You literally view the subterraneous areas through an invisible "4th wall" much as you would view the events onstage at a play. So you mostly lose the illusion that Mario is exploring some giant cavern. I remember reaching the bottom of the Hazy Maze cave with the lock ness monster thingy, standing in the middle, looking up using the C-buttons, and being in total awe of the sheer size of this majestic cavern. You simply don't get that type of grandeur scale in any of the 3D Land / World levels, with mostly cookie-cutter levels based on a 3D grid. Sure there are exceptions like the Savanna level where you can dart across a field as the kitty form of whatever character you are using. But still, it's just a grassy plain being suspended in space. You don't get the illusion that this could be a real place, as in many of the stages in Mario Sunshine, where you can often go to the edge of a stage and see other areas from the game.
The new 3D Marios simply do not have the grand exploration aspect like the old games. "Collectathon" genre was created to give players something to do. Collect coins, bananas, rupees, whatever to add replay value to the game and unlock additional content. Games weren't meant to be breezed through in one sitting, so developers needed to add non-essential items to the game to give players something to do. Collectathon or not, and I know Nintendo's not gonna go there but I wish they would...
I want to see a 3D Mario set in an expansive universe similar to the Zelda series. Mario could start off in a village in the vicinity of Peaches castle, and start a quest to to explore the universe and defeat bosses and eventually earn enough stars to defeat Bowser. He may meet various NPCs along the way that will aid his quest, and earn new powerups and abilities. For instance, Mario may earn the ability to bust bricks or shoot fireballs during the journey. He may have upgrades like boots and hammers, similar to the upgrades in Paper Mario. The first area may be a meadow, then a forest level, and a desert and water level, mountains, a frozen and a fire area, and as the game progresses, Mario could unlock warp pipes to quickly warp between areas previously visited. Kind of Zelda/Mario/Paper Mario fusion in a way, but with a focus on 3D platforming. Each area contains multiple stars hidden throughout, as well as a castle with a boss, possibly Koopalings. Obviously collect power stars from multiple areas during the journey, and possibly unlock new characters to join your team such as Luigi, Toad, Peach, Rosalina, and Bowser, each with special and unique abilities.
I want to see them buy back Banjo Kazooie and have that as their collectathon series. Modern Nintendo seem like they could do a much better job with it than modern Rare ever could, and it'd avoid annoying certain people by using Mario or Donkey Kong or some other non collectathon IP instead.
Do I want another Mario game like 64 and Sunshine? Yes. But Banjo Kazooie given a comeback by Nintendo would be even better.
Forums
Topic: What Should Nintendo Do with the Collectathon Genre?
Posts 61 to 80 of 102
This topic has been archived, no further posts can be added.