Topic: Paper Mario: Color Splash - OT

@Rexcalibr The Koopalings are guarding each a Big Paint Star of the same color of the wand in SMB3. Morton, the first one, is guarding the Red Big Paint Star, Iggy, presumably the 3rd because of the power of his attacks (16 HP per attack), is guarding the Yellow Big Paint Star. Wendy is guarding the Purple Big Paint Star.

So, the order should be this one:

Morton - Red
Larry - Orange
Iggy - Yellow
Lemmy - Green
Ludwig - Blue
Wendy - Purple

Roy should be fought before Bowser, since he has the black wand.
This also likely means that each Koopaling will be fought separately. It's unknown if they'll appear at the end or not, as Bowser seems to be controlled by the black paint (he even hanged a colorless Peach on a painting in his throne room!) and they might come in his rescue.

I think I'm going to cancel my preorder. This game does not look interesting or enjoyable at all. Where the heck is the sequel to Mario 3D world or Galaxy?

I'd like to a 3D Mario game with a big hub world or even a connected overworld. I kinda hate the world maps now.

@TomJ That has nothing to do with framerate. It's a stylistic choice, not because the Wii U can't handle more complicated animations lol.

Actually, that was the style of the first Paper Mario (the N64 one), TTYD and SPM used something like separate sprites that were connected and animated at 60 fps, but as some people noted the final effect was similar to cheap Flash animation so they went back to the animation style of the first game.

While we've had great iterations of Mario Kart and Smash Bros., generally the Wii U has had poor iterations of series when compared to previous generations. Star Fox Zero was a mess, Paper Mario: ColoUr Splash looks poor up against the older classics, SM3DW pales in comparison to Galaxy and Mario 64. Then there's missing franchises like F-Zero and Metroid. And Zelda, we haven't had an original title yet on Wii U. We've had to wait ages for it because of NX and that will in all probability be the definitive version. Sure we've had other games like Splatoon and the brilliant Super Mario Maker but then the older consoles had so many more classics. I've bought literally everything for Wii U but looking at my collection stacked up beside Wii and Gamecube games, the stack looks paltry. The last AAA title was Xenoblade Chronicles X and that was a year ago, we've only had a handful of games since and they were all mostly garbage(Animal Crossing: amiibo Festival, Mario Tennis: Ultra Smash, Star Fox Zero, Mario & Friends: amiibo Challenge) with the exception of TMS.

At the time, the developers had to do their best to make an RPG with 3D envirnoments, hence the paper look that was actually forced. Of course, properly realizing animations for each sprite would have been quite a task, and having animations made of a buch of frames (sometimes even two!) was both simple to realize while having that stop-motion feels that is odd but has its charm. Actually, in Paper Mario most of the characters (inlcuding Mario!) don't even have a sprite looking toward the screen when pressing down!
So, it was likely some kind of compromise at the time, and maybe today it looks awkward, especially after we have seen the fluid animations of TTYD and SPM, but I can see how Sticker Star and Color Splash just drew inspiration from the animations of the original Paper Mario (that also have its advantages, since each frame can be considered hand-drawn and thus gives quite some power in the hand of designers!). Interestingly though, Bowser this time has a sprite facing toward the player!

No idea if I should agree with you or not.

On one hand, Nintendo's games are usually of the high quality they always are (though I'll grant you that Amiibo Festival and Ultra Smash are baffling even when taking into account other questionable Nintendo games of the past). On the other hand, it almost feels like Nintendo knew way ahead of time it shouldn't throw everything at the console.

But tbh, as someone who grew up with it...maaaan. Imagine the N64 if Nintendo didn't have Rare? OMG, what a disaster. Mario, Zelda, Pokemon spinoffs, Star Fox 64, Mario spinoffs, immediately forgotten F Zero game (the most forgotten out of the console ones for a series that was only a big deal in 1991), incredibly forgotten Excitebike. shrugs forever Also, N64 is the biggest middle finger to good framerate until the Wii U's competition came out.

You're not wrong, especially when put into context of when those consoles came out vs now. 3rd party is still important, is the issue. Gamecube was super easy to port to, had plenty of other games beyond Nintendo. Wii was super popular and everything, plenty of other games beyond Nintendo (that stupid people ignored and should still be embarrassed about for eternity for doing so). And Wii U needed some more. Considering a billion indie games exist, it isn't like it needed a ton more exactly (in terms of having quality gaming at least, sales is another issue). I think like 2 great indie games came out recently, if NL's reviews are anything to go by. But it did need more to make up for things, and some more of the higher tier indie games.

But to me, the real indicator is that not one Nintendo game I've played on Wii U has lived up to the all time greats. A couple got maybe close but in terms of being 3D Zelda or Mario Galaxy or Rhythm Heaven (yes that's close to those games, deal with it) or a Mario Kart with good extra modes or Metroid Prime etc, not really. The best Wii U games to me are Rayman Legends and Shovel Knight. Rayman Legends outshone Nintendo at taking weird console gimmicks and implementing it into classic, family friendly gaming and Shovel Knight outshone Nintendo at making essentially perfect video games with a love of nostalgia.

Yoshi's Story was an even flufflier, easier and simplified take on the Yoshi's Island series.

And it wasn't exactly well received back then.

Now it's considered a classic by many. (Mostly those who played it as kids).

Maybe this game will have something like that.

Anyway. I guess what I try to say is, this kind of situation is not that new.

I agree with the above posts.
I think the turning point for Nintendo this generation was in 2014 when they realized that even their best aces up the sleeve (Mario Kart, Bayo2 and Super Smash Bros) sold well among the user base but were totally unable to sell new systems. I think it was there that they decided to invest as little resources as physically possible to keep the WiiU alive. I think the WiiU had great potential had things gone in a different way after launch, but the way it is, it feels like they left the job half done.
WiiU is an half-baked console in every sense.

I used to disagree with people calling the WiiU another Dreamcast but now I think this is where the system is heading at the moment. It'll probably become a small "cult" platform in the future, whose main quality will be having been "different" from what was hip at the time, but it certainly doesn't have a shocking library and all of its game don't hold a candle to the Nintendo classics of previous generations. To think that the much criticised Wii had two Mario Galaxy, two original Zelda games, a new Prime chapter and a ton of brillian 3rd party support (not to mention a virtual console service that the WiiU one pales in comparison) you really understand that all things went wrong this gen.

The nail in the coffin for me was probably reading Tanabe at E3 stating that they didn't even have a new Metroid for console in the works. You would think, with the system in a state of emergency, they would give their best, but he seemed really clueless. This new Paper Mario looks cute and everything, but it follows the trend of Yoshi's Woolly World, Star Fox Zero, Mario Tennis et al: a lazy game, half done, put together in a hurry without even trying to top the previous entries in the series.

the trend of Yoshi's Woolly World et al: a lazy game, half done, put together in a hurry without even trying to top the previous entries in the series.

Did you mean Yoshi's New Island? (Not that I'd consider even that to be a lazy half-done game)

yes I mean Yoshi's Woolly World.
A game so predictable, even an idiot like me could predict it would happen - 5 years ago.

https://www.nintendolife.com/forums/wii/kirbys_epic_yarn#reply-15

and yeah, you may like it and it may be a good game overall but it's the kind of game Nintendo could do with their eyes closed. So is that WiiU Kirby game, I forgot to mention it. So's Captain Toad, which I liked.
Don't get me wrong these may all be decent/good games but they are not memorable in any way. I see them as ordinary business. When Prime or Galaxy were released, we all knew they were going to be considered classics soon. Even Skyward Sword, we knew it was going to be something really big. Xenoblade Chronicles, when that was released people said it was the best jrpg ever, full stop - which is an exaggeration of course but it shows the kind of impact it had. None of the games on WiiU I can think of had the same impact.

I don't think Yoshi's Woolly World's problem is that it wasn't a big deal. It's actually strange it didn't get more attention because of its art style, since that's the main reason Kirby's Epic Yarn got attention. The problem is a pretty clear disconnect from Nintendo fans vs everyone else.

Nintendo fans: Finally! A Yoshi's Island sequel that's actually good!
Everyone else: Another Yoshi game? I mean it looks nice but meh...

Nintendo fans would like it but it is the exact type of game to make to NOT get people to check out the system (outside of if the art style got enough hype).

@spizzamarozzi Wait, I thought we were complaining about Nintendo introducing new concepts nobody wanted instead of them playing it safe with sequels here.

There's a bit of a saying about Monster Hunter that I believe applies to the concept of "classics" as well... the first game(s) you play is always your favourite. In my case, the Mario games closest to my heart are Sunshine and Super Circuit, being the first games that I owned. Even if plenty of other objectively superior versions of these games have come, they still haven't proved themselves as memorable to me as those first games.

You can't just keep moving straight forward seeking "the same game, but better", because the more you do this, the more likely fans are going to remember stuff they don't like about those games, no matter how minor, than remember the good times. Skyward Sword is a prime example; you're much more likely to hear gripes about Fi being annoying, there being "no overworld" etc. than hearing them mention the great times they had (except, as previously mentioned, those who've never played any other game), because they've already had those great times in prequels already.

The least you can do to prevent this is just not frequently releasing those sequels, but it's much more profitable to find new ways to push games forward to find new audiences instead of only catering to old ones and waiting for new generations.

I think Nintendo relied wayyyy too much on 2D platformers this generation. I think that's their version of half baked minimum effort. Not that the game itself is buggy or bad. Just creatively bankrupt. In my opinion at least

...no?

Like, Skyward Sword is literally one of the last Zeldas this even qualifies for, based on the many opinions I've seen on the game. If people liked the old stuff, they'll basically always bring it up as a sidenote to the new things and the people who don't like it, straight up thought the motion controls and certain other elements ruined it. That's how it always is, and I've seen more people talk about how Skyward Sword's elements work then nearly any game I can think of.

also, I don't know if that is so consistent with how people react to long running franchises that don't super dramatically change how they play, but **** that. Mario Kart is one of the most overrated video game series ever created if you base your opinion on the first 3 Mario Karts, and Ocarina of Time was bested every time they made a new 3D Zelda. And I grew up with the N64, your childhoods are all a lie.

I do think that arbitrary attempts to top yourself by doing the same thing by bigger and better is a doomed and terrible idea though. Doing that too often is stupid and is also probably what lead to giant open worlds filled with nothing.

And Star Fox Zero is literally one of the least lazy Wii U exclusives, quite frankly, since it actually heavily used the Wii U gamepad proudly instead of giving up like DK:TF. Regardless of what you think of it and regardless of its story, it has some of the most refined level design I've seen from Nintendo in a while and what they tried to pull in that game while also trying to have Wii U dual screen 60 FPS is crazy effort I wish more people would put into their games. Better than the zero effort of Mario Kart 8's battle mode for example.

Well, I suspect this game will bomb regardless of quality. It's on a dying system, with nothing else to support it, just outside the holiday season and with a gameplay style large portions of people don't like and will boycott the game for. That's a bad situation for any game.

@CM30 The hate for this game seems to have mostly been quelled. Some have made 180s, others just mellowed to disappointment instead of rage, but at any rate it currently seems far below than what Federation Force had. Other factors making this game's outlook not so bleak are a) it's a Mario game, and b) regarding the holidays, you could also argue that it has basically no competition for Wii U owners, other than perhaps the NES Mini. It probably won't move systems and the sales will reflect that, but it'll likely still do decently all things considered. It also helps that the game's lone status lets Nintendo devote more time to showcasing bits of it, a key factor in shifting opinions.

Decently for the Wii U is still pretty terrible compared to the other games in the series. This game could literally be the second coming of the Thousand Year Door messiah and fail to sell more than a million copies.

It being a Mario game helps, but remember, 3D World and New Super Mario Bros/Luigi U are also Mario games, and they sold about a quarter of what their predecessors did. And this isn't a platformer or kart game, but an RPG in a series that has sold more than 2.5 million copies exactly once in its history... on Nintendo's best selling system in decades.

I'll be very surprised if it sells more than 1 million copies here.

So if you want the tl;dr about this game (as much as can be gathered before release anyway).

Developers work for years to make an HD, much better version of their previous game, Nintendo does nothing to make fans happy in order to make this release more tolerable to them (outside of showcasing that the story elements are not nearly as toned down as the last game was). In fact, they literally released a crossover between the new Mario RPG series, which was an insultingly obvious opportunity to make fans happy, and did as little as possible with it in order to save costs from making new sprites, because apparently something obscure and niche like a handheld Mario game needs to save costs despite Paper Mario sprites being more or less the same since 2004.

more tl;dr: Nintendo tries to screw over their own game for lazy, poorly thought out reasons