Topic: Super Mario Maker - OT

Yeah, I don't think "extremely difficult" always counts as "well made". Nuance is the key.

When I make my levels, I don't want to make them near impossible or rely too much on trial and error for people to beat. Most people honestly will just quit or skip the level I would think unless they're hardcore Mario players.

Welp, Nintendo World Report made a phallic level.

@Rexcalibr: I want to make my levels near impossible, but also entertaining. And when I play 10 and 100 Mario Challenge on Expert, I want to play those levels, and I will not skip them. Giving up too easily is no fun. I don't want the entirety of my experience with Super Mario Maker to be a cakewalk.

@TylerTheCreator: Well, just know this:
It's easier said than done. Easier said than done, my friend.

@VeeFlamesNL: I'm not gonna want to give up on levels just because they're hard. I know they're not impossible since they've been uploaded. It's going to feel so satisfying to beat those levels.

Are any of the levels that have been made by reviewers going to be on the servers when Super Mario Maker actually comes out?

@TylerTheCreator
You have to make it enjoyable tho. Frustrating levels are no fun at all, even for people that don't give up easily.
You should find a way that don't make the level seem unfair(like 1000 of fireballs from flowers and Bowser for example).
But to the impossible levels thing. Because they managed to beat the level, doesn't mean they're not impossible. It could be that he for any random reason managed to beat the level and needed like 500 or more tries for it. If you know what I mean. They are not 100% impossible, but more like 99% impossible. ^^

@Jason723
They haven't uploaded it, so what ever.

Out of all the stages I've seen in videos, to be honest only a handful have really impressed me. Many of them look way too busy and the person making them just clutters a bunch of enemies and objects in a small space and increasing their size with the mushroom tool, which I get can be exciting in a chaotic way but that seems like what most of them have been. I also get that people want it to be challenging but many of them look like they are about trial and error over strategy. Like, you will need a koopa shell to break a said block or a mushroom to be big so you can jump and break a block to get from point A to point B but if you messed up early on and didn't do that, you will have to start all over. That is fine, but at the same time it can be frustrating and feels like the creator is trolling you on purpose.

I do like the idea of making challenging levels because most Mario games created by Nintendo in recent years have been on the easy side, but I do not really find more appeal in these types of levels over other styles.

Yeah, hard to beat doesn't mean that they are well designed. It's possible to make levels that can only be beaten if you find a hidden question block. One that the level designer would know about and be able to find easily. Or levels that you can't beat if you miss something or lose your powerup. Levels that you will die at a certain point unless you've already played through it and remember that point.

That said, some of the best levels I've seen so far push the boundaries. There was one I saw which you had to play through a maze in a particular order otherwise you'd get stuck. It would have been cheap if it wasn't the entire point of the level. Or that Metroid one where you have to go through and pick up specific items hidden on the map to progress. But it's ok because it's trying to be Metroid. It's the same deal with the cheap deaths, if they only push it as far as Megaman? Then that's good design. If they go too far?

I would love to make long and difficult levels, but the lack of checkpoints would make them annoying. I guess I could theoretically put in my own checkpoints (with the doors) and hope people only use them when they're suppose to.

It's my understanding that all review copies run on a separate server that will be wiped prior to launch.

I think that's both incredibly lame, and also quite smart. It leaves everyone on a level playing field in terms of likes/plays/etc, but it also means that some really magical levels that I have seen and would love to play will be gone.

I'm kinda disappointed that they used the genesis version of Sonic instead of a 8-bit version of him. That's just lazy.

@Nightmareeater

That is technically 8-Bit sonic from the Master System version of Sonic the Hedgehog.

@St_Tingle
What kind of 'magical level' have you seen?
You know, don't confuse the already implemented stages with the one on the sever.
Because I haven't seen really really good ones. If you could give me some examples, that would be great!^^

Here are some ways you can customise the Bowser/Bowse Jr. boss fights:

Yeah I think there will be a time when people will get over this "I want to be an expert level maker" and turn that into "I want to make fun levels".

Look at every Mario game, 90% of the levels you can get through first or second try. The remaining 10% are the expert levels. Most of my levels will be aimed at being just fun to get through.

As long as they implement a good filtering system, the best stuff should rise to the top.

Isn't that the same thing tho?
If you don't master making levels properly it won't be fun. There are still points like don't making them too frustrating and unfair, or the level is too long for its difficulty, or too short and easy etc.. Anything that disturbs the fun for the mayor part of the community. We just have to see what kind of level they'll prefer and adapt to it. A good creator also makes good levels.