Bold 1: Isn't even correct yes in both games you run and jump but each Character in 3D World has distinct things they excel at whether speed, floating, fluttering or delayed additional jumps/attack.
Most of those things aren't abilities though, they're minor differences in physics. And those things aren't particularly significant because they don't make you think or act very differently.
Everyone has explained over and over, I am not going to try to explain and have this cycle continue. You don't agree with people and people don't agree with you. You aren't going to change your opinion and we aren't going to change ours. Saying two things in a game are the same just because they have similar traits doesn't equate to them playing the same, but you will disagree with that. So lets not continue this into another 300 replies talking about the same thing over and over and over and over and over...
People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...
3DS Friend Code: 2621-2786-9784 | Nintendo Network ID: DefHalan
Anyway, I think the Mario games would feel less formulaic if they added a new move or character that has a distinct ability (and not just a different speed or jump height, an ability that actually change the way you play the game), or changed some other aspect of the formula. For instance, the beta of NSMB had enemies that could steal powerups, that could be a big game changer for the series, not just because you could lose powerups but because they could create scenarios where it may be more advantageous to let them take it and you have to think carefully about who should get the powerup. Oh, and since 3D World already took the baby step of letting you walk freely through them next game they should take it a step further and make them more like hubs. So more coins and goodies, you would have to actually explore the map to find hidden levels, and you could find Green Stars. If the Mario games had that level of change between games, they wouldn't feel as formulaic.
Anyway, I think the Mario games would feel less formulaic if they added a new move or character that has a distinct ability (and not just a different speed or jump height, an ability that actually change the way you play the game), or changed some other aspect of the formula. For instance, the beta of NSMB had enemies that could steal powerups, that could be a big game changer for the series, not just because you could lose powerups but because they could create scenarios where it may be more advantageous to let them take it and you have to think carefully about who should get the powerup. Oh, and since 3D World already took the baby step of letting you walk freely through them next game they should take it a step further and make them more like hubs. So more coins and goodies, you would have to actually explore the map to find hidden levels, and you could find Green Stars. If the Mario games had that level of change between games, they wouldn't feel as formulaic.
Oh, so they should add a new character like Rosalina who has a different ability like being able to perform a second jump in the air to give her that extra distance or height that the other characters are missing.
Also, NSMB doesn't beed to change at all. It being formulaic makes it a quick and cheap game to develop that is certain to get good sales. That's kind of the point.
@CanisWolfred That's fair I guess, the reason it was even brought up was because we were talking about whether or not platformers are stale and several people on here immediately discredited that because of lack of experience. Yeah, you can't really comment on how it feels to use the Cat Suit, but why does that even matter? When something is stale it's usually not because of the experience itself but because of something in the design or formula that's been repeated too much.
No, Stale means that you personally no longer find the formula as stimulating as it once was. It's completely personal preference as to what is stale and what isn't. It's also not a problem to the compaines making the games if there's still new and budding interest in the formula and sales of the games remain high.
What I'm trying to say is: it's a discussion where nothing would come of it, so I'm surprised this tangent has gone as long as it has...
I have an urge to go play a platformer now. Hmm... which one? I've almost completely 3D World. If I just play through the final three worlds a few more times... but then there's Champion's Road... shudders Not looking forward to doing that with Toad AT ALL. I could go work for 200% on DKCTF or do some speedruns. Or maybe start over with a new file. Or I could get Super Meat Boy for a couple bucks on Steam. Or Shovel Knight. Shantae. I could even redeem Metroid Fusion for my Wii U and play that. So many choices!
Oh, by the way, about 3D World, the characters differences actually make an absolutely massive difference as to how you approach a level, especially in some of the more difficult levels such as Champion's Road. Take the rhythm block section from that level, for instance. Mario or Luigi could long jump past the blue blocks to land on the red blocks and long jump from there to safety. Blue Toad might be fast enough to just run around across the blocks. Peach can float long enough for the blocks to disappear and reappear before she lands, and Rosalina can just skip the whole section with a combination of her long jump and spin jump. In the next section, the options change again. Rosalina and Peach still have the option of waiting out the blocks, and Luigi's jump, if timed perfectly, may give him this same advantage. Mario and Toad, however, will have to be extra carefully about their timing and move super quick to reach the top and safety. And that's just one small section of the level. Even an area like bouncing off enemy heads to reach higher faces entirely new challenges when face by different characters. Toad and Peach need to get perfect jumps to do this segment. Rosalina only gets one second jump through this whole thing and it can send her back to the bottom, if she accidentally knocks away the next enemy. Mario's jump is perfectly spaced for this, but Luigi actually has to be careful not to hit the enemy above him and get hurt. Or there's the speed pad section, where floaty characters like Peach and Luigi risk losing track of where they're gonna land and falling off the platform. Rosalina's double jump has this same problem. Meanwhile, Toad's jumps will have to be perfect to avoid getting hit by the shockwaves and to avoid getting flung off the level. You DO have to approach levels differently when you use different characters, but you wouldn't know that BECAUSE YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED THE GAME.
@UGXWolf Those things don't change your approach because it's the same abilities used differently. I'm talking about different abilities used differently. Double jumps are kind of tricky because they're a physics change disguising itself as a new ability. It doesn't exactly change your way of thinking, but sometimes it is utilized in the level design.
It seems like the lot of you are having trouble telling the difference between physics, gameplay mechanics, and genres. Saying that I'm sick of just running and jumping doesn't mean I want Mario to be a shooter and it doesn't mean I want them to change jump height and speed. It means I want a new type of jump, ideally something like the Wall Jump because that actually had a completely different function instead of just being a change in physics.
No, Stale means that you personally no longer find the formula as stimulating as it once was. It's completely personal preference as to what is stale and what isn't.
1. not fresh; vapid or flat, as beverages; dry or hardened, as bread.
2. musty; stagnant:
3. having lost novelty or interest; hackneyed; trite:
4. having lost freshness, vigor, quick intelligence, initiative, or the like, as from overstrain, boredom, or surfeit:
It specifically means something that has lost its novelty because of age/repetition. Also, just because it's subjective doesn't mean it's not worth discussing, because there are objective elements behind it.
It's also not a problem to the compaines making the games if there's still new and budding interest in the formula and sales of the games remain high.
New and budding interest? Hardly. There's not new and budding interest in anything Nintendo related at this point sales wise, except for the upcoming smartphone game. Also, it is a problem for Nintendo because of their philosophy and reputation. They constantly brag about how innovative they are and talk down their opponents for creating the same types of games constantly, so it makes them hypocrites. And when they've developed a reputation of being "the innovators" it sure makes them look like idiots when their games feel stale.
Oh, so they should add a new character like Rosalina who has a different ability like being able to perform a second jump in the air to give her that extra distance or height that the other characters are missing.
Or a character like Nabbit who can run over spikes. Also there is the Boost blocks that can be placed by the gamepad, but I guess these are just things that have been available to the Mario series since the beginning, they're nothing new, just like the new powerups are nothing new and don't change the gameplay.
@UGXWolf Those things don't change your approach because it's the same abilities used differently. I'm talking about different abilities used differently. Double jumps are kind of tricky because they're a physics change disguising itself as a new ability. It doesn't exactly change your way of thinking, but sometimes it is utilized in the level design.
It seems like the lot of you are having trouble telling the difference between physics, gameplay mechanics, and genres. Saying that I'm sick of just running and jumping doesn't mean I want Mario to be a shooter and it doesn't mean I want them to change jump height and speed. It means I want a new type of jump, ideally something like the Wall Jump because that actually had a completely different function instead of just being a change in physics.
No, Stale means that you personally no longer find the formula as stimulating as it once was. It's completely personal preference as to what is stale and what isn't.
1. not fresh; vapid or flat, as beverages; dry or hardened, as bread.
2. musty; stagnant:
3. having lost novelty or interest; hackneyed; trite:
4. having lost freshness, vigor, quick intelligence, initiative, or the like, as from overstrain, boredom, or surfeit:
It specifically means something that has lost its novelty because of age/repetition. Also, just because it's subjective doesn't mean it's not worth discussing, because there are objective elements behind it.
It's also not a problem to the compaines making the games if there's still new and budding interest in the formula and sales of the games remain high.
New and budding interest? Hardly. There's not new and budding interest in anything Nintendo related at this point sales wise, except for the upcoming smartphone game. Also, it is a problem for Nintendo because of their philosophy and reputation. They constantly brag about how innovative they are and talk down their opponents for creating the same types of games constantly, so it makes them hypocrites. And when they've developed a reputation of being "the innovators" it sure makes them look like idiots when their games feel stale.
The objective elements require the people discussing it to have actually played the game.
Sales wise they would do well to never make another Metroid as it is always a waste of time.
You have no idea how the games "feel" having not played them.
Maybe you should try Polygon (The review of Codename S.T.E.A.M seem to use similar logic to you)
“30fps Is Not a Good Artistic Decision, It's a Failure”
Freedom of the press is for those who happen to own one.
New and budding interest? Hardly. There's not new and budding interest in anything Nintendo related at this point sales wise, except for the upcoming smartphone game. Also, it is a problem for Nintendo because of their philosophy and reputation. They constantly brag about how innovative they are and talk down their opponents for creating the same types of games constantly, so it makes them hypocrites. And when they've developed a reputation of being "the innovators" it sure makes them look like idiots when their games feel stale.
How did I miss this part? Man, you're not just ignoring the self-evident, anymore, you're outright denying facts and making stuff up. Nintendo never bashed their opponents. Reggie has said one or two things that don't at all translate to "you guys should stop making the same game over and over." And yet again, you're implying things you'd actually need to have played the game to know about certain games. Not a single one of the games you complained about feels stale. The only people I've ever heard say that are people who HAVEN'T PLAYED THE GAMES THEY'RE CRITICIZING. I've never heard anyone call Tropical Freeze, 3D World, or Mario Kart 8, or even Smash 4 "stale" unless they hadn't played the game and were either making excuses to not get/play them or trying to perpetuate some kind of pathetic hatred on the series, franchise, or IP holders. And as for Nintendo's philosophy, do you honestly think for even a second that Nintendo would've benefitted from NOT making New Super Mario Bros Wii? Or from NOT making Super Mario 3D World? Or from NOT making Tropical Freeze? Do you honestly believe at the core of your being that a new Metroid released in 2014 on the Wii U would've outsold Tropical Freeze or moved any significant number of units? If you believe any of this, you're delusional.
“What the other companies are doing makes business sense,” he says. “But it’s boring. The same games appear on every system. At Nintendo we want an environment where game creators can collaborate and think of ideas for games that could have never happened before.”
They're saying this and yet we've been getting recycled gameplay in Mario for the past 8 years. That's hypocrisy if I ever saw it.
Also if you haven't heard any kind of criticism of staleness on those games you really should get out more. Even limiting myself to the games I have played (NSMB Wii, DKCR, and 3D Land) I can say that the experience hasn't made me look on those games any more favorable than if I hadn't played them, they're just as stale as they look. And that's not out of any kind of hatred or bias for the series because I bought and played all of those games while I still had some enjoyment for the franchise, the games just legitimately bored me to tears. 3D World and Tropical Freeze won't be any better, I wasn't thrilled with new powerups and level gimmicks before and I won't be again. This whole nonsense about needing to experience the games is just arbitrarily discrediting someone's opinion that you happen to disagree with, and frankly I'm getting sick of it. I think they're stale, and I'm informed enough about the franchises to come to that conclusion. Get over it.
This whole nonsense about needing to experience the games is just arbitrarily discrediting someone's opinion that you happen to disagree with, and frankly I'm getting sick of it. I think they're stale, and I'm informed enough about the franchises to come to that conclusion. Get over it.
You need to stop thinking about playing games and play them dude...or find yourself another more involving hobby for yourself! (Just saying coz I care.)
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