Topic: Xenoblade Series chat

@TheJGG That's amazing! If it's public i'd love to hear the covers.

Agree on Gaur Plain I switched back to original whenever there.

@Mioaionios I can understand that, humans don't always like change especially initially, but I decided to give it a fair go and came around. But both are excellent, there are no wrong answers.

@themightyant If only you could customise which songs played where, then we wouldn’t have to swap between the original and DE soundtracks every time we get there! My reasoning is that I’ve spent more than enough time with the originals so… may as well go for the new ones!

As for my covers, absolutely! I post them to my YouTube channel, that’s in my forum signature. Here’s one you all may recognise…

I think it was so cool that they were able to get Nomura to design some characters! You can definitely tell which ones he designed based on their portraits lol!

Definitely my favorite "modern" Nintendo franchise (showing my age here a bit, but by "modern" I mean anything introduced on the GameCube or later, so I see Pikmin that way as well).

I was introduced to the series with XC2 which I loved, & have since played Torna, XCDE/Future Connected, & am knee deep in XC3 (on Chapter 5).

I haven't played any of them to 100% (that's not something I don't think I've ever done for any game), but I did manage to get my party up to level 100 in XCDE, which made the final boss a breeze.

Oh sweet, someone made the thread!
I had only ever played Pokémon and final fantasy in terms of rpgs before this, and don't get me wrong, they're really fun, but Xenoblade just blew those out of the water for me.

I started playing last year, every single game I've played has been at least an 8/10 (those being XCX and FC, I'd honestly give XC1 and XC2 10/10s lol)
XC2 (just barely) > XCDE > XCX > XCFC (I'm playing XC3 now and haven't played Torna)

My road with Xenoblade has been a rocky one. Didn't like the original either time I tried it on Wii and N3DS (I bought XCDE at launch and will be giving it one more go eventually). XCX, which I got the special edition of, was ambitious and interesting but a little too convoluted and messy for my liking. XC2 was a bit rough to start with, but it really won me over by the end. Torna was great from beginning to end, and only suffered from being a little restrained in scope as a result of being a side-game. Best DLC I've ever played, though, by a long shot: even the Witcher 3 ones pale in comparison.

XC3 is eerily close to the ideal Xenoblade game I've been waiting for. The gameplay cycle is addictive, and they've finally put sufficient resources toward the side content, so that the enormous environments don't feel like wasted space anymore. I did prefer the villains, music, and plot of XC2, if I'm being honest, but XC3's gameplay is so refined and free of the annoyances that plagued previous entries that it comes out on top for me.

I guess I haven't technically beaten it, but I'm right at the final boss now. I'll probably 100% this game after beating it. After that, I plan on doing a full run of all the Xeno games, starting with Xenogears (which I barely remember, since I haven't played it since I was a kid).

Monolith Soft isn't my favorite JRPG dev (that would be Atlus, even if I'm not rushing out to play Soul Hackers 2), but I do think they're one of the better names in the industry, and they've really spread their wings under Nintendo.

@SplooshDmg Yeah, a dead MMO is probably a good comparison. The first game received a lot of praise for the scope of its environments, and I suppose those were pretty technically impressive achievements on the Wii and New 3DS. But there's very little to find or do in them, so the environments just end up feeling like padding.

I actually would have liked more robust navigational tools in XC2. By all means, give me the option to turn them off, but it was SO easy to get lost within the intricate, vertical level design in that game. The in-game compass isn't helpful when it often isn't even pointing me the way I need to go to be able to access the target area in the first place. With that said, I really, really like the choice of opting for smaller, denser, and disconnected land masses in XC2. I also prefer the way they handled loot in that game, where you actually collect it from specific locations instead of it just being barfed out in little orbs across the map (a design choice XC3 returns to, unfortunately). And, IMO, the titans are just much more interesting from both a visual and worldbuilding perspective (it was really cool running around Gormott and seeing the titan's giant head moving around in the distance). I know the locations in XC1 are supposed to correspond with body parts of dead giants, but it never felt that way to me. Whereas XC2 frequently reminds you that you're basically a flea on the bodies of these absolutely enormous creatures. The narrative tension created by them dying off also makes them inherently more interesting to me.

I'm guessing you probably won't like the quest navigation tool in XC3, since it basically shows you exactly how to get from A to B, but it can be turned on or off at any time. I usually don't bother with it, but sometimes you have to take a circuitous path around your environment to reach a quest-related location, and it's nice to be able to just get where I need to go at those times. I don't mind being given the option of getting lost, but having lostness forced on me is aggravating.

Exploring is actually fun in XC3, though, so I'm not always as concerned about getting to the next plot-related event. You're pretty much constantly stumbling over new content as you travel around Aionios. It's nice to finally have quality side content to match the scale of these environments. To be honest, I consider its side content the gold standard of the genre. I've played JRPGs I've liked more, but never one with more consistently interesting and substantive side-quests.

How far are you in XC2, BTW?

As someone who went along with Operation Rainfall the day before even that blew up and bought the original near launch in the US, I feel I can properly say that I liked Xenoblade Chronicles before it was big. I'm not on the ground floor for most things, and the things I am are original Nintendo IPs no more recent than Splatoon, so I'll take pride in that. It helps that it is still one of the best JRPGs I've ever played and came out at the most perfect time. I don't think anyone even remembers but the beginning of the 2010s was very bad for JRPGs (if not most Japanese games). Final Fantasy had failed twice in one year and localization for niche games were disappearing quicker than the Wii's fanbase. I almost dare say I'm not sure where this genre would be if Xenoblade Chronicles wasn't a surprise critical darling and got supported from both Nintendo fans and weebs having this mutual feeling of "this is stupid and unfair, right?"

Which is probably why despite having not massive sales its felt like such a major game in modern gaming. Because for all the positives it has as a game (some of which almost feel like they exist to be a counterpoint with modern JRPGs of the time), it honestly feels like it made people excited about the genre again. And I absolutely adore it, it was a joy to experience near the end of the Wii's lifespan.

Which is why 2 is so bewildering to me. JRPGs got a reputation in the 2000s for overdone, eye-rolling cliches, either dated or nonsensical gameplay mechanics, and an over-reliance of trying to be anime. And by the time FFXIII came out, a complete lack of freedom. Which is why Xenoblade got so much attention, for its user friendliness, feeling more grounded, presenting all its game mechanics well and making what could've been a complicated experience very approachable across the board. It feels almost across the board to be like "hey here's the things people actually like about the genre, let's not do the things people hate about it". And then Xenoblade Chronicles 2 threw away every note about that, and decided "**** it!" Like all those things they pretty much directly did the opposite of, sometimes for no reason at all. I still can't fathom why a competent tutorial system isn't in this game, it would not take much thought to do that correctly when the first game is right there. The whole game is so weird with that in mind, it'd be like if Dark Souls 2 was easy and explained its story in great detail. Y'know, the opposite of the thing that made it cool and beloved.

And I think I'd accept those issues, but the more I think about it, the big problem I really have with it is that it really crossed a line with me for extending the length of your game. Between the blade crystals, affinity charts, merc missions and field skills, it actively disrespects your time. It is so much menu nonsense that I cannot even pretend to care about, and so much time not spent actually playing the video game. My theory for at least so of it is that it was under a bad assumption that mobile mechanics are fun and not in mobile games specifically to make people spend more money. It all feels like a waste of time, most of which to extend the game without needing to actually add more content to it. Which is absurd for a Xenoblade game. As if any sane human being would need more content than the previous games could provide. I think for any other issues I have with 2, it has some incredible high points and would be so much closer to the original (in some ways surpassing it), but trying to earnestly experience and appreciate the game beyond the main story drags the experience down significantly in the long term, when it didn't need to.

But I will at least say, it was a memorable experience. Xenoblade 2 is a unique experience for me, to such a degree that I will never give a game that level of patience and benefit of the doubt ever again (sorry, original Hyrule Warriors). Shame that happened to a game with an all time combat system AND environments AND soundtrack AND a great ending, but it is what it is.

X also exists, which is how most people think of it now. I do like it more than 2, even if parts of it have slightly similar issues. I do really respect it, because its so different from your typical JRPG. Making one not focused on a main story at all, this open and sidequest focused is so not what I expect from the genre. It just wasn't the best at doing that. Mostly because you need really strong sidequests if you're gonna do this and it couldn't reach the heights it needed to in order to make up for a lack of focus on one linear story. It is funny though because there were few people more hyped for X than I was and now it feels forgotten, even with all the time I put into it.

I do hope after being severely burned by 2's issues the other games make up for that. Which is gonna take a lot of my time still, between Torna, DE and 3 I'm gonna be spending 200+ hours on these games. Hope they don't kill me. : D

I finally caved and bought Xenoblade Chronicles 2. It should arrive on Thursday, but I need to finish up Cris Tales before I can start playing it. It is the first game that I have paid full price for since BotW, but it seems like full price is actually a good price for it at this point since it has been discontinued, so I finally bit the bullet. Looking forward to beating it and starting Xenoblade 3 sometime in 2027.

@TheJGG Out of interest, what don't you like about the Gaur Plains track in DE? It sounds much 'fuller' to me now. Almost every track in the remaster feels significantly improved, to the point where I'd actually say I actually like the OST now.

So far, the only one I've heard where I actively prefer the original is You Will Know Our Names. It's too orchestral now. Too many instruments. The simpler Wii-era composition feels raw and focused in comparison, which I think benefits a rock track.

@SplooshDmg I prefer the environments in XC2 in terms of design and lore, but for user-friendliness and content density? XC3 all the way, yeah. It's basically the XC1 approach, but done right this time.

If you love the story so far, you're in for a treat. XC2 gets so much better as it goes on. Its second half is definitely the best in the series to date.

How are you getting on with the combat and mechanics so far? A lot of people find the game's tutorializing to be subpar, which is probably why XC3 leans hard in the opposite direction.

Definitely a thread I can get behind. The series has grown to be in my top 5 series. While I'm playing through 3, I still need to do all the DLC for DE, 2, 3, and actually play x.

I can get behind this thread too; I'm staying out of the XC3 thread in the Switch forum to avoid spoilers since I'm not finished yet. Chapter 5 and just hit 70 hours. What I will say is that XC3 has by far the best quest system in the series, though XCX isn't a too distant second on that front. Those are what's inflating my playtime quite a bit. I don't plan on finishing every single one - the Nopon stone quest can die in a hole - but I'm doing many of them.

Barring XC3 since I'm not finished, I'd rank the games as:
1. XC:DE (Never played the original, and IMO "Definitive Editions" are usually the best versions of a game anyway)
2. XC2: Torna (More condensed focus and I actually liked the Community and campfire systems)
3. XCX (Main story is somewhat decent, but the real meat of this one is in its exploration, worldbuilding, and Skells; man is Skell combat satisfying!)
4. XC2 (What it does well, it does REALLY well, but combat isn't explained very well at all and the gacha Blade system is frustrating)

@Tyranexx so torna is that good huh? Funny story, I actually bought it before i bought any other XC game since gamestop had it for $20 around a spring sale a few years back. Figured, might as well give it a try for a 20 spot. But I never got into it as I didn't really understand what was going on. Considering ive been getting into the series more, I should probably get on torna lol.

I really want Challenge mode to drop for Xenoblade 3. Maybe sometime this month if we're lucky.

I want to say I liked the original Xenoblade before it was big too; while I first played the game around six years ago now, I had never even heard of Super Smash Bros at the time, let alone the fact that the main character was in it. So in a sense I also liked it before it was popular... but at the same time it wasn't because of Smash. I'm strangely quite proud that I discovered the game without having heard of Smash. In many ways though I only truly experienced the game fully when I played the Definitive Edition, because I didn't do any side quests at all in the original.

In the middle of playing 1 I enjoyed it so much that I decided to get X, having heard of the open world, giant mechs, and just more sci-fi goodness. I am still baffled as to why they didn't port this game to Switch from the start, it is one of the best open world games I've ever played in my life; and this is coming from someone who played Skyrim, Breath of the Wild, Ghost of Tsushima, Horizon Zero Dawn... a decent amount of AAA open world games. How MonolithSoft made that game run on Wii U I will never know. Story was a bit underwhelming but the focus was obviously on combat and exploration from the beginning.

And 2... this game was strange. As @kkslider5552000 said, the random Common Blade mechanic was awful. The field skills artificially lengthened playtime and even locked story progression. And the tutorials sucked, like I didn't even figure out what a full Break-Topple-Launch-Smash combo or even the Elemental Orbs were until I was near the end of the game. But thinking back on this game... the story's great, and the characters are good. Hurt by all over the place English VO but that's not the translator's fault.

And 3... it took all the good stuff from 1, X and 2, and brought it in. And it took the bad stuff from 1, X, and 2, and either fixed it, or ditched them. Better tutorials, amazing VO, great combat, better performance... I won't say anything about story for a while so... it exists.

Yup, all the belt buckles, obtuse designs, even the pencil strokes are so distinctly Nomura. Plus, the Torna characters all have well-defined noses, that makes them stand out like sore thumbs in that game. Man they nailed the art style in 3. Couldn't have done a better job.

For me, it boils down to the percussion and the guitars. The fact that there's less instruments (and all of them are live now) means each part stands out more, and the percussion feels too light, guitar feels too hollow. It creates a Swiss cheese kind of sound where the entire audio range isn't used properly.

I agree with most of your points on You Will Know Our Names, that's another rare instance where the DE version just didn't click. The original had unbridled energy and hype whereas the new one feels a little more sterile, for a rock song, that is. And adding non-rock instruments kinda diluted the "raw" feeling, agreed.

This next part could be a bit silly so feel free to ignore it.

Xenoblade 2: Torna is set almost 500 years before the main game, and it's like every other sequel Xenoblade game, you don't need to play the original to enjoy it, but a lot of the emotional payoff comes from recognising characters, landmarks, et cetera. So if you play (or have played) 2 and enjoyed it, set off into Torna!

I'll be honest, I agree completely with your observations on 2. Naturally you'll play 3 within time, but in my view... the sense of scale the Titans give isn't very strong. You can't see other Titans, for example. In that way I liked the original's sense of scale more since you could always see the Mechonis from pretty much every location on Bionis. You could see the sword getting closer and closer, until you eventually go above it, and eventually onto it. With 2 that progression isn't there, so it feels a little less rewarding.

I'll say this about 3's approach to this, and you can skip this if you want a 100% blind experience, but 3 does the sense of scale as good as 1 does. Since the whole game world is interconnected, and you can theoretically walk completely around it without fast travel.

@TheJGG i supposed I'll have to give it a try. I did enjoy 2, but not as much as 1. I should probably get onto X before torna or even future connected though.

@TheJGG Really nice work. I particularly liked your interpretation of Dancing Mad and your mashup of Engage the Enemy. I'll listen to more when I get a moment.

@Ralizah I don't know how far you got with Xenoblade Chronicales whether it was just a few hours or a bit further. I'd suggest there are 2 main moments you ideally need to get to before the game really opens up. The first is Gaur Plain, it is the first open area after Colony 9 and the caves but can take a few hours to get to. The second is the first fight with the Telethia where the games fight system and strategy really come into play. Depending on your playstyle and how much you like exploration this could be 10+ hours in. Good luck, second third times the charm right? lol

@SplooshDmg This has grown into it's own beast. Lots of Hom Hom and Bird People joined

@themightyant Sword Valley was about where I stopped on my second playthrough. Which is... at least 2/3rds into the game, right? I got pretty far in.

@Ralizah Fair enough. A third playthrough probably won't change your mind then. We all like different things.