Topic: The everything Xbox thread

Success largely comes down to others' mistakes at this point. PS4 was on top because of Don Mattrick's XB1 vision, 360 was on top because of PS3 launching a year later and PS3 reveal being a complete disaster, etc.

Right now, I'd say PS5 has the edge because of its name.

Eh. Xbox One started poorly because of Don Mattrick's vision for the console and the higher price tag, but that doesn't explain the console continuing to consistently undersell the PS4 afterwards. Consoles that start off poorly have a harder time of succeeding, but it's hardly impossible (see: PS3 and 3DS), just as consoles that start off well can rather drastically lose steam.

Also, I'd argue the PS3's hefty price tag at launch was one of the biggest factors behind its initial struggle to sell. 360 sold for $300 - $400, depending on which SKU you bought. PS3 was $500 - $600. That's a HUGE price difference.

PS1 absolutely took off because of Nintendo's stubborn refusal to abandon the cartridge format and Sony's more lax standards for what could be published on the console.

PS2, as we all know, had a DVD player, which absolutely helped it early on.

@Ralizah I was including the PS3's launch price in the reveal being a complete disaster. As for XB1, I think it still felt the effects of Don Mattrick's vision at least until the XB1X came out though by then Microsoft's "Xbox" focus turned to PC.

@Ralizah Well, no offense, but if you're so hung up on proving that the PS4 was cheaper, then you simply should have worded it better/more exact. What I told you is the ACTUAL fact: the two base consoles were more or less similarly priced, that's a fact. That one party stupidly tried to force a pack-in camera, making the TOTAL price more expensive, doesn't matter in this factual comparison.

What you've basically said is that a pound of potatoes from one store is cheaper than 750 grams of potatoes from another store, but that other store simply didn't offer one pound bags, so the comparison is not only moot, it's downright stupid.

As for the power difference: I gave you two overviews with the exact numbers, but as previously established, the numbers don't tell the complete story. Most important is the raw horse power (TFLOPS) in combination with speed and memory bandwidth, and in that respect the PS4 is indeed more powerful than the Xbox One, but only marginally so, because we're talking 0.61 TFLOPS here, so the fact that the GPU has more threads, and the memory is a bit faster due to it having almost double the bandwidth doesn't really translate to a significant gain, because if the graphical chipset processing it all is only ever so slightly more powerful than the one the competition is using, then it really doesn't make it more than a marginal difference, but I suppose not everyone will get that rather important technical detail...

I did notice that my comparison table for the base models was incomplete, so here's the correct one, for completion's sake:

As you can see here, the extra embedded memory, and its own bandwidth, makes the difference even more marginal, than it already is.

Now, conversely, the X vs the Pro does represent a BIG difference, because although there's only a minor gain in CPU power, there is a considerable difference in GPU/TFLOPS and memory compared to the Pro, so yeah, that previous comment/statement also stands. Like a brick house...

Next point: you say you don't want to question/doubt my experience in the sales & marketing trade (which is IT-related and which I've been in for well over 15 years, by the way) but in the same breath you're calling known and proven trade formulas such as results of the past are no guarantee for the future, "empty platitudes". That they don't mean anything to you personally, or as a business outsider, doesn't mean that these things aren't true, and are proven time and again, in ANY business. Some businesses, such as money trading, stock investments and so on, often even use that exact line or a variation on it, in their contracts, to inform potential clients of the risks, so it's not like the information to verify it, isn't out there.

And you may call Microsoft's victory with the One X hollow, but there's plenty of tests out there, amongst which quite a few from reputable sources such as Digital Foundry, who've proven that the majority of third party titles runs and looks better on X versus the Pro. There's only a handful, literally, that don't, for whatever reason. There's a Digital Foundry video about that as well, by the way.

As for my "open" prediction: it's honestly the only one we can make, seeing as we lack more information, so all I did was being as realistic as possible, and none of what I said was wrong or doubtful. It IS a competition, between those two, so the one in pursuit of the one at the top will more likely be the one to have something to gain, obviously, and as such, will also need to put in more effort, lest they fall behind even further.

And I never said they'll be "top dog" next gen, just that they WILL do better and that they'll eventually take over, which is just a numbers + time + effort game, and that is the reason why it WILL ultimately happen.

I think I've also given plenty of examples to illustrate that, and these are all ironclad, and can be verified by literally every single individual out there. It's just an undeniable truth, really.

As for the developers that they bought: Phil Spencer has already said that all of these are either hard at work or nearly finished with the games that they were making for the new Xbox, and I would think that there's at the very least some kind of quality assurance/check, seeing as Microsoft really can't afford to screw up with the games for a second time, so I'm pretty sure that they'll do better this time around.

That said, we also don't know for a fact what Sony's doing in that regard, so we can't say that they're only going to bring out great games either. They might very well have a couple of future duds in there too, who knows? Only time will tell, for both parties.

P.S.

As per my profession, I can trade, sell and compliment any product or service, if it fits the bill. I simply need to be impartial in most, if not all cases, because not all my clients would like to buy/use the IT brands that I would personally prefer, so I've learned to accommodate towards that fact, and as such, I'm perfectly capable to not let my personal bias get in the way of facts...

On a side note: just out of personal curiosity, what's up with the multi-quotes? I know perfectly well what I've said in my previous comments, so no need to repeat that back to me, and as you can see, it's certainly possible to reply to someone without them...

@Ralizah "Not when you come from as far behind the competition as Sony originally did. PS3 is factually the best-selling console from that generation."

I understand Sony flogging that #1 selling number as a valid data point from a marketing perspective, but, as I said, from a consumer/observer/fan's standpoint it's a nonsensical number. PS3 was way behind both Wii and X360 at the actual generational close. It made up ground when it was already a bargain basement previous gen console, in large part because PS4 wasn't BC and Now was garbage, so it was the only way to play older games from the PS3 gen. Not to mention the volume of PS3's that sold during the real gen's run because it was the cheapest BluRay player on the market, to non-gamers. An issue Wii also had in sales due to being the best Netflix black box at the time for the money. (Both 360 and PS3 gained some sales from RROD/YLOD replacements as well.)

For a marketing capability of "We were always #1!" that statistic has value. But from an actual generational player base standpoint, as well as a financial standpoint, the PS3's "#1" status is a technically-by-the-numbers valid gray lie. It would be like 3DS overtaking PS4 a few years from now (or didn't it already do that?). It's not really #1 if it took 2 generations, and years after the competition stopped selling the competing devices to actually surpass them.

I mean, I agree with you wholly on the PS4 being the obvious superior value back in 2013, and I bought in for that reason on day one. But there's no need to go all Sony Superfan to purposely ignore the changes since that time.

"the fact that the vast majority of players will never own a Pro model, and the fact that the PS4 is likely still the target development console for most games makes "

Windows PC is the target platform for most multiplat development, and XBox is by definition a DirectX box (thus the namesake) - that's why XBox always has that advantage for multiplats except for that Mattrick disaster that was so far back in power level that the built in advantage couldn't save it. It's natively an optimized Windows PC in a plastic box.

In 2012, X360 was nearly always the better platform over PS3 for multiplats. In 2013, Mattrick messed up XBox's edge and PS4 became the better platform for multiplats. Today, X1X is significantly a better choice than PS4 Pro for multiplats, and X1S has closed the gap betweeen XB1 and base PS4. OG X1 is a discontinued product and can not be compared for current sales choices, it would be dishonest to compare OG X1 to PS4 Slim, it's not a product offered anymore and hasn't been for years. That doesn't invalidate what happened to early adopters, of course, but is a bad argument for 2019.

As for 2021, it's too soon to say, we know little of both upcoming platforms for comparison, and we don't know the target price points. Even if X-SEX STD is vastly more powerful than PS5, it could be $200 more and therefore a poor value. Or MS could just sink Android royalties into it and subsidize the thing down to $399 and walk away the king while Sony goes back to their "Only $699!" thinking. Too soon to tell.

"One system has a lot of the best exclusive games released this generation. The other has virtually nothing in the way of exclusives, is missing a ton of games that went to the other system, and is focusing on making decades-old games playable on the system instead."

That's that "Sony Superfan" thinking again. It's console evaluation from the perspective of someone that's already modeled their mindset around one brand's perspective. Sony fans "buy for the exclusive games" - that's why they're Sony fans. That doesn't mean that's the only reason to buy a console. Not everyone likes Sony games, and Sony games tend to be samey. I happen to like about 60-70% of them, but not everyone will, and the real count of exclusives isn't that extraordinary these days. A fact I've realized more and more every time I turn my PS4 on - my exclusives menu has shrunk considerably and is also made up, in good part, of "decades old games" (Dark Cloud, etc.) Though a big one is DQ which is not exclusive only because it's also on Nintendo, not XBox.

In the event where XBox is the superior place for multiplat games, the current decision for someone deciding between PS4 Pro/X1X, since it's too soon to know how X-SEX STD vs. PS5 plays out hardware-wise, you really get the choice of "buy a Playstation for those dozen exclusives" or "buy an XBox so that EVERYTHING ELSE runs better." If you threw out your gaming PC and bought a pure business laptop with integrated graphics instead, would you be content running all those PC games on Playstation only? Might you not wish for a console that plays Ubisoft games smoother? XBox = PC. That's not a coincidence, it's the design. Has been since 2000. That's why it's named (Direct)X-BOX.

@NEStalgia THANK you. Someone gets it.

@ThanosReXXX As for the power difference (just looking at TFLOPS). The base PS4 is 1.49 times more powerful than the base Xbox One. And the Xbox One X is 1.43 times more powerful than the PS4 Pro. So the difference is the same between both consoles really.

Except that the Xbox One X was also €100 more expensive than the PS4 Pro IIRC; whereas the PS4 was the same price as the Xbox One when they dropped the Kinect.

But whatever, a box that plays games is a box that plays games

If I cared that much I would've owned a gaming PC. I have spoken.

Woah the mental gymnastics going on in here is impressive lol. 10s all around

@Octane Except you're missing one VERY crucial point: first off, TFLOPS alone don't tell the story, which I already mentioned several comments ago. But even though they don't, your math is quite heavily off, because having 0.61 extra TFLOPS available or 1.8 extra TFLOPS is literally a MASSIVE difference.

In this specific equation, you're supposed to compare the amounts of the TFLOPS themselves, NOT the relative comparison in percentages, which is what you did.

So, yeah...

It's honestly cringeworthy to read Sony superfans' reasoning.

@NEStalgia Yep, you are totally right. Really solid arguments.

@Octane Also, the launch Xbox One has a better CPU than PS4 and early after Xbox One released, Microsoft reduced the memory reserved for Kinect and OS so games could use more memory. Games performed marginally better and ran at a higher resolution on PS4 because of its better GPU but also a few games performed better on Xbox One at the same resolution because its CPU was also marginally better. The difference was not that important between PS4 and Xbox One but in the beginning many resources were reserved for Kinect. For instance, Killer Instinct received a visual boost after the change and this was before Microsoft ditched Kinect definitely.

However, the difference between Xbox One X and Pro is huge in performance and resolution terms because Xbox One X is not just considerably more powerful but much more optimised than Pro. And, as @NEStalia mentioned, games are optimised for Windows and Xbox One X is a Windows console that is fully customised and designed to reach the best possible performance and resolution in 2017. It is so easy to port and optimise games for Xbox One X that it can be done in less than a day and they developed a tool for optimising games automatically for Xbox One X, because it's as flexible as a Windows PC and Microsoft developed specific tools for it. This will continue with Series X and Series S (if confirmed). Sony has not ever cared this much for hardware and they don't have Microsoft's engineers but rely on their studios, primarily Naughty Dog, and third-party companies that have now welcomed Xbox and Windows.

Last generation Nintendo won, Microsoft was second and Sony was third (during the generation). Next generation, Microsoft will be using consoles, Windows and xCloud for the same games so it will be hard to tell who will win but considering these three options they'll likely win. Sony will be alright but no longer dominating like with PS4.

Let's just all agree to disagree and declare that Stadia is the truly most superior gaming platform

Eh, I deleted my last post. At this point, I'm arguing to argue, which was NOT my intention going in.

Is anyone else seeing a December 2020 release date for Xbox Series X on the hardware section of the console Microsoft Store? I wonder if that's an error or an accidental reveal, after Black Friday would be an odd release date.

@Grumblevolcano Yeah, it's a placeholder. Microsoft gave a vague 2020 date for Scarlett, so it's the latest possible date to make good on that.

Nope, @Grumblevolcano.... It's got a sign up to get emails as soon as more info is officially available, which I haven't bothered doing
As @DarthNocturnal says, that's probably just a placeholder & certainly could change, anyway

@redd214 Err... no. You're clearly forgetting the Ouya.

@Ralizah You're a cringy Sony superfan, what are you even doing here?

@Grumblevolcano I'm certain they will change that date. But then again, someone has probably released a console in December before I guess, so it wouldn't be the first time that happened. But really, yeah, I doubt it.

@Octane There's a few in Japan like Wii U and Playstation but outside Japan, nothing from the big 4 (Nintendo, SEGA, Sony, Microsoft).

@Octane Getting rekt by the Xbox Defense Force, apparently.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go offer a prayer to my Crash Bandicoot shrine, curl up with my Nathan Drake body pillow, and dream sweet dreams where I gallivant around San Francisco with Shuhei Yoshida.

Gamestop is really trying to push Xbones this month. The deal I talked about a couple pages ago, One S with NBA 2K19 for $150 is back up as a deal of the day and they're throwing in a free wired controller. Also an X bundle for $300 with NBA 2K and an white extra controller. Great deals just bought both!!

One X deal is back again today but for only $250! An X, a game, and an extra controller for $250!