Forums

Topic: The PlayStation Fan Thread

Posts 13,941 to 13,960 of 16,084

Grumblevolcano

@Dezzy Permanent online service type games are heading towards the free to play model anyway. I think at some point we'll have a situation where outside of Nintendo 1st party the general situation ends up being:

  • Price of games is for the single player and co-op (PvE) content
  • Multiplayer (PvP) is a separate download that's free to play with lots of microtransactions

So basically the Halo Infinite monetization model.

Edited on by Grumblevolcano

Grumblevolcano

Switch Friend Code: SW-2595-6790-2897 | 3DS Friend Code: 3926-6300-7087 | Nintendo Network ID: GrumbleVolcano

Ralizah

@Octane We're seeing the thing getting taken apart before we even have a sense of how its home menu will look, what changes there'll be to the UI, etc.

Edited on by Ralizah

Currently Playing: Advance Wars 1 + 2: Re- Boot Camp (NS)

Octane

@Ralizah I doubt there are going to be drastic changes, but it's not that weird, is it? We did see the internals of the Series X before the home menu IIRC.

@GilbertXI I hope it's as silent as they say it is!

Octane

Ralizah

@Octane Fair point. Still, it's weird to see Sony be so guarded... what, a month up to launch? Meanwhile, Series X consoles are being showcased all over the place.

I hope it's similar. It sounds stupid, but I really like my PS4 themes, so if those can't migrate over, I'll probably stick with my PS4 for longer than I would otherwise.

Currently Playing: Advance Wars 1 + 2: Re- Boot Camp (NS)

Octane

@Ralizah I just got TLOU2 theme with the boat, and the sound effects are just perfect.

Either way, even if they don't carry over (and I don't think they will), I expect we get plenty of new ones. Unless you paid for them, but does anyone really do that?

Octane

redd214

@Ralizah Themes? Themes are what would make you hold back from getting a PS5 lol?

redd214

NEStalgia

@Dezzy @Octane Keep in mind that MOST GAMERS buy 2 games a year tops. So most gamers are spending $140 a year at the new (US) price. Game Pass even at $15 for Ultimate is $180/yr. So for the average gamer that's actually more spend into console software, not less, but the gamer also gets more value out of it, being able to play more titles. They're not inherently losing money on it. It's like ISPs selling unlimited bandwidth. For every PS5 owner downloading 6TB a month, there's 300 soccer moms who use it to check their emails and stream some Game of Thrones once a week at 1080p. The price will eventually go up, yes, but I don't think it's the flat failure of financing Sony wants you to believe. It just needs a growing subscriber pool.

The price hikes are insane though. I can't help but feel the pricing is not based on per-unit sales necessity but based on physical media, retailer cuts, and used games factoring in. There's no way digital pricing should be going up like that, they're not taking the same losses they are on physical, and I can understand for Sony's 10-hours-then-done games how used takes a massive chunk of their profits.

I also think, cynically, they're building sale pricing in to give it a longer ladder to descend. Activision and 2k started it, Sony "approved" and encouraged it. I'm still waiting for MS to say $60 all our games!" That would be fun.

Ubisoft has confirmed $60 (US) for 2020 games. They refused to comment on 2021 and said only "they're focused on holiday 2020 pricing which is $60." To me that's a soft confirmation 2021 means $70. But it could also be a wait and see game to see how good/bad consumer reaction is to the other companies trying new pricing.

Either way at the new pricing plus the new economy game sales are going to slow considerably in a very painful way, and rapid sales digitally and physically will need to take place. In Europe it sounds like you guys see retailer discounts on games early which shows the return at MSRP isn't really there - wholesale prices are apparently quite low. IN the US we don't really see retailer discounts. Games just tend to get cheaper as they get old.

NEStalgia

Ryu_Niiyama

@NEStalgia Two a year? with all the digital sales that feels a bit low... even for the dudebros. I mean there are more than two sports or shooter games right? Granted I've not looked at sales charts in some time...

I mean I know they don't have my problem where I'm looking for these mythical droughts people complain about, while I'm wondering if I need to sell a kidney soon (never said it had to be mine).

That being said I'm stocking up this year to brace for the price hike (I feel they are long overdue as games are cheap in comparison to their production value and time spent playing but I'm not made of money) as I'll be sitting out new systems till 2023.

Taiko is good for the soul, Hoisa!
Japanese NNID:RyuNiiyamajp
Team Cupcake! 11/15/14
Team Spree! 4/17/19
I'm a Dream Fighter. Perfume is Love, Perfume is Life.

3DS Friend Code: 3737-9849-8413 | Nintendo Network ID: RyuNiiyama

NEStalgia

@Ryu_Niiyama Believe it or not, we're insane, and most people don't buy many games. Except @Octane who also buys no games.

It's always amazed me looking at attach rates of "7:1" and such. When you average it out, and most of us core people buy like 10-100 a year, that means a large part of those 40m console owners are buying none most years to offset us! The industry average remains 2 for the "average" (or median?) gamer per year, albeit that's probably with many buying more and many buying less. According to MS, GP subscribers actually buy more games. Getting that first hit works, apparently. So GP itself, even if it lost money is a loss leader to increased sales in general.

I still don't feel that the price hike is overdue or even valid. Even if margin per unit sale has fallen (And I'd argue it hasn't due to other cost savings involved), market growth has increased substantially, and the overall revenues and margins speak for themselves. Retail scales. Amazon and Walmart thrive on minimal margin per unit and tons of sales. Games publisher profits have been soaring at those old "lossy" prices.... Quite a coincidence. A thousand pennies are worth 10x a dollar, etc. etc. Gaming has benefited from that scale as well. They haven't been losing money, they've been growing quartery in massive leaps.

I really feel like the increased price A) Shafts digital buyers entirely for no reason, B) is based on the wholesale prices of physical and the resale losses of physical, C) Builds the race to the bottom sale pricing into a higher starting bracket to extend the race to the bottom in price longer, D) Whale milk, and E) Maybe expecting industry contraction due to the economy and preparing to sell more to premium luxury market instead of the masses, F) Just plain padding the quarterlies even further.

I'm not sure it won't backfire though. A drop in game sales, increase in used game interest for physical, and a drop in preorders is not what they really want. If they wanted to eat their cake and have it too, they should be focused on, if not discounts to tick off retailers, loyalty/rewards programs on their digital stores.

NEStalgia

Octane

@NEStalgia Where do you get those attach rates from? Do they include digital sales? Because many casual gamers are probably buying digital.

And funny you say that, because the only game I plan on playing at launch is Astro's Playroom lol.

Octane

NEStalgia

@Octane vgchartz isn't always accurate but they usually have attach rates around. Some are industry estimated, some are published. Push Square has an article from last January (not this past january) that put PS4 at 9.6 or, at the time 10 games per user. At 5 years into the cycle, that's consistent with the roughly 2 per year average. That should include digital, yes. Though I would think casual would be less likely to buy digital than physical, I dont' have any reference point for that, just my own assumption./

LOL, Octane is casual confirmed!

NEStalgia

Octane

@NEStalgia Some of my friends are what you'd call "casual" gamers. They played Overwatch, maybe FIFA, and a Call of Duty game or Battlefield, and a bunch of mp games like Overcooked, Towerfall, etc. But as far as I know, they all went digital.

And yeah, VGChartz used to be useful. Maybe it still is for comparing game sales. But for attach rates? I doubt it.

Octane

Ryu_Niiyama

@NEStalgia I'm aware that gamers that like a range of genres buy more, as there is more to buy (hence the reason I was one of the few people never complaining about the wiiu line up... seriously I spent a LOT of money during that time.) but 2 a year seems... I mean I suppose it makes sense. I'm likely assuming that since my overall wealth (in disposable income but not overall) is higher than my parents (minus my mom's last year working as I just beat her out this year) and that games go on sale for peanuts so often, that more people would be buying. But that does make more sense considering the landscape for many devs over the past 20 years. So many in financial dire straits, or just gone or having to lean on the bread and butter to follow the popular trends.

Totally agree with the game pass effect. I use it as a demo station and then will pick up games that are on the Switch as well first or use the time to clear out something that would be a one and done or wait for it to go to switch (ori). The side effect is that means I'm on the xbox more and thus I see the sales, so sometimes I'll buy games that I may have skipped/forgotten about because they are cheaper or I double dip (moving some of my fighting games to xbox since I have Live sewn into game pass). Plus now I can play NHL without giving EA money. Win Win. Wish I had known about this before I bought inquisition again.

I agree to a point about companies making up the cost and turning a profit in other ways but I suppose I'm in the "just charge me 100 for the full game and stop with the micro transactions" camp. I know that won't work for multiplayer...that is too much money to leave on the table, but Single player games should build the unlockables into the price if feel. For the ones that go "100, how dare you?!" they are likely waiting for sales... I just dont want to pay to change some cosmetic thing when a higher price would see it baked in...same with season passes...I like DLC but I feel like a lot of the content for a season pass is better served in the deluxe edition "or the thanks for waiting a year, here is everything edition". My issue is you darn near have to have a spreadsheet now to know which version you are getting and sometimes the increase in price gets you minimal until they make you pay the fleecing price anyway. I feel like if steelbook and ubisoft gold editions weren't a thing, the deluxe version might be at least 10 bucks cheaper. I suppose I'm wanting less of a price hike and more of a consolidated way to buy a game rather than having to start pulling up excel before I buy something. I just feel like for some game types (single player) that raising the base price would lend to that as there is still a limit to what the market will pay and companies have to toe that line.

Most digital games have sales, so the increased price doesn't hurt them imo. I very rarely buy a digital game full price, but I've often spent full price on physical just so I don't have to hunt for it later (such as nis games which have small print runs usually). It certainly has not hurt pc as steam darn near gives games away several times a year. As for your point E, I consider gaming to be a luxury hobby (not getting into the who can afford what game) as it is certainly something you don't need by any means and its only function is entertainment...that is the definition of a luxury. Even still catering to the top end crowd has a ceiling as collectors nit pick about unit price more than anybody. Let a CE get announced...half of the comments are tearing apart the worth of the items that you get in addition to the game.

However, as we move into the digital future the idea of digital being overvalued may become more widespread and then we end up with PC gamer pricing conditions. The ps5 and series (what does microsoft call them collectively??) sales should be interesting.

On topic, are we able to install hdds into ps4s (and not void the warranty)? Or do people just use externals? Since I'm sitting out the new babies I need to expand my space so I can work down my backlog.

Edited on by Ryu_Niiyama

Taiko is good for the soul, Hoisa!
Japanese NNID:RyuNiiyamajp
Team Cupcake! 11/15/14
Team Spree! 4/17/19
I'm a Dream Fighter. Perfume is Love, Perfume is Life.

3DS Friend Code: 3737-9849-8413 | Nintendo Network ID: RyuNiiyama

NEStalgia

@Octane Well you can easily search for other announced attach rates, particularly for PS and Nintendo, various major outlets publish those. I can't recall if MS publishes but it doesn't matter for the overall average.

I still tend to think that the hardcore are going to be the ones buying digital and kind of "living in the ecosystem." The casuals I would think, and a big part of the market, are going to be the physical buyers and the kids getting physical games as gifts and the like. However, I'm also keeping PC and XB in thinking here. PS seems to be heavily, heavily physical skewed more, moreso than others. Possibly even moreso than Switch, which is surprising. But the portability of Switch introduced some value to digital that doesn't exist as much in previous consoles. Plus an older demographic than Nintendo is accustomed to where parents do most of the buying of games for kids.

NEStalgia

NEStalgia

@Ryu_Niiyama luxury by strict definition may mean something you don't need, but gaming, movies, tv, etc have never been considered luxury markets. Discretionary items is more appropriate. Luxury market has the implication of being for the wealthy and a symbol of status. Gucci, Audi, Restoration Hardware..... PlayStation? Seems to be where they want to go. Fortnite on your ipad is for the plebs..... Or was until epic decided to carry the CCPs water against Apple.

Not sure I'd like parying 30 bucks more just to include a bunch of cosmetics. I'll leave those costs to the whales that want them. Id pay 100 for the full game with the missions all included. Though isn't that what ubisoft is doing with gold editions? For the rest its just charging more while still having season pass and mtx....ugh. same stripped content, lousy new price!

Yes you can install an hdd... Ps4 pro i think has a tray. If and slim i think you take the cover off (or is it the other way around?). It's officially user accessible. I just use external, personally.

NEStalgia

Octane

@NEStalgia Depends. I guess parents will buy physical games for their kids. But once they are old enough to buy their own games? Probably digital. That's what they're used to with phone apps, or PC games. Same with my friends, they buy stuff digitally on PC, so they probably don't even understand why companies are still printing discs. Where the more hardcore gamers also overlap partly with collectors, or just want to have their favourite games as physical copies, or are cheapskates like me and just want the cheapest option possible. But yeah, there are also plenty of gamers who went full digital. I don't think the the difference between the casual and core crowd are that different, but within the casual crowd it probably depends heavily on the age group.

Octane

NEStalgia

@Octane agreed. It's also regional. In most of the us, the internet simply can't accommodate digital at all so there's little choice. That was me last gen to start. Japan has 2067s internet and 3sqft apartments but everyone's a collector.... Some of us are cheap, lazy, and have collapsing towers of 35+years of games and have to go digital now.

NEStalgia

Dezzy

NEStalgia wrote:

@Dezzy @Octane Keep in mind that MOST GAMERS buy 2 games a year tops. So most gamers are spending $140 a year at the new (US) price. Game Pass even at $15 for Ultimate is $180/yr.

This doesn't account for my plan of just subscribing to gamepass for a single month when a new game comes out, then canceling once I've finished the game (within the month hopefully).

It's dangerous to go alone! Stay at home.

Please login or sign up to reply to this topic