This reminds me of a time when parents bashed Nintendo for allowing MadWorld onto the Wii. Good times...stupid parents
But does Madworld make you kill people irl like Manhunt did?
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Not that Star Fox's description made sense to begin with, but judging by the responses, it seems like there is an equally nonsensical assumption going on that M-rated games are automatically shallow and dull. Not every M-rated game is Madworld. All the Metal Gear Solid games got an M rating, I believe, and even those who don't like the series would have a hard time making a case that the game is your stereotypical violence-for-violence's sake video game or that Kojima was shooting for the worst rating to get better sales. That kind of rating is unavoidable in some kinds of games unless you want soldiers to bleed rainbows and tulips.
it seems like there is an equally nonsensical assumption going on that M-rated games are automatically shallow and dull... All the Metal Gear Solid games got an M rating, I believe, and even those who don't like the series would have a hard time making a case that the game is your stereotypical violence-for-violence's sake video game.
If that was directed at my comment, then I didn't say anything about violence for violence's sake, or violence at all. I was talking about the general lack of genuine artistic/thematic/narrative/interactive sophistication, even (or particularly) in M-rated games. The closest we've gotten is, perhaps, Shadow of the Colossus, or maybe one of those arthouse indie games. We should not confuse sophistication or "maturity" for things like edginess, taboo topics like sex and violence, or visual or physical realism.
That said I adore the Metal Gear series, but you have to step back and look at the (intentional!) cheesiness and needless complexity of the whole plot. The games are a pretty darn long distance away from inspirational, or awareness-raising, or particularly artistically merited. They scream "late 80s/early 90s B-rate action hero movie", and I love them for that (Snake Plissken being the most obvious indicator of their roots, in this case).
weirdadam wrote:
unless you want soldiers to bleed rainbows and tulips
Actually, I could swear I saw something like that happen in a game before... Oh, that's right.
It wasn't for any one comment specifically. But you did mention "potential sales." I don't confuse a rating with "inspirational or awareness-raising." It is not the ESRB's job to decide that. It's a completely different subject, which is why I made sure to point out that Star Fox's definition didn't make any sense to begin with. But the opposite assumption is equally baseless. An M rating just means the game has some things that some people think are not good things for some other people to see, nothing necessarily to do with artistic value, fun, or an attempt at being perceived as edgy just for the sake of boosted sales. There are plenty games that just cannot avoid the rating without compromising what the game is about. Shadow of the Colossus, by the way, was rated T in the US, though it was rated "higher" elsewhere.
Man, I thought you were going to link me to someone actually bleeding tulips and rainbows. I can't really tell what's going on in these screenshots except for the dead fish in the last one. Sigh, missed opportunities.
Yeah, ESRB's ratings are just for age-appropriateness. My example of Shadow of the Colossus is pretty telling - it's a T-rated game which has more inherent maturity to it than most M-rated games. Anyway yeah, my point of discussion was a different track entirely - just a response to what StarFox wrote.
@Adam Ah, I guess the screenshots don't speak for themselves - but they're close enough to bleeding tulips and rainbows. The violence-cut version of TF2 released in Germany has no blood or gore. Blood on bodies is replaced with plastic indentations (like dented action figures) and gore is replaced with random stuff like rubber duckies and cogs bursting out of their bodies, instead of the usual (admittedly also cartoony) flying limbs and guts.
it seems like there is an equally nonsensical assumption going on that M-rated games are automatically shallow and dull... All the Metal Gear Solid games got an M rating, I believe, and even those who don't like the series would have a hard time making a case that the game is your stereotypical violence-for-violence's sake video game.
weirdadam wrote:
If that was directed at my comment, then I didn't say anything about violence for violence's sake, or violence at all. I was talking about the general lack of genuine artistic/thematic/narrative/interactive sophistication, even (or particularly) in M-rated games. The closest we've gotten is, perhaps, Shadow of the Colossus, or maybe one of those arthouse indie games. We should not confuse sophistication or "maturity" for things like edginess, taboo topics like sex and violence, or visual or physical realism.
First of all, Shadow of the Colossus is rated T for Teen. I agree with you for the most part--I don't think exploiting sex, violence and physical realism is artistic at all, and I'd agree that the bulk of rated M games capitalize on those things. But Metal Gear Solid 4, for example, uses almost all of those things, and it's got some of the strongest art direction I've seen in a game. And Metal Gear Solid 4 in particular was taking a harsh look at war and violence--the violence is used to create a frighteningly realistic future where the world is in a constant state of war. And despite the cheesy side story, it's pretty darn powerful.
And I feel like someone needs to say this: Grand Theft Auto is a satire. It's both an homage and satire on the cheesy mobster films of old. Now, a kid isn't going to understand that. A kid playing GTA is just thinking, "I can shoot guys' heads off! AWESOME!!!" I always enjoyed Grand Theft Auto for the freedom to explore and the game's great sense of humor. Not because I could get laid by pixely strippers.
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@Kid_A See my post above about Shadow of the Colossus being T-rated.
The Metal Gear games always had solid themes and presented them in an impressive manner. MGS2 was a triumph (once you got past the heady, convoluted story progression). Still, in terms of story, the series is only about as good as most shounen anime series - which isn't putting it down in any way.
As for GTA: yes, they are a pretty obvious satire and I liked them up until number 4 which just started taking itself way too seriously. [Snipped out inane whining about GTA 4.]
But I'm a skeptic and this is really, really off-topic.
Also, if I ever start a band I'm going to call it "Bleeding Rainbows".
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TBD, since we're already off track here, what the heck is your avatar? I can't even tell what I'm looking at to be confused by. It looks like there might be teeth, but I can't tell what they'd be connected to, or if it's multiple creatures, or what.
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