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Topic: Yoshi's Crafted World

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Xyphon22

TheLightSpirit wrote:

Xyphon22 wrote:

@TheLightSpirit Well, what would you like the 100% completion reward to be? I always found it remarkably stupid when games would give you something like a super strong weapon as the reward, because what good is that when you have already done everything? I almost never 100% games, but I did for this one just because I found it so much fun to search for everything. The end reward doesn't matter at all because you have already completed the game anyways. I guess some sort of video or director's commentary or something that doesn't affect gameplay at all would be apropos, but I never bother watching those things anyways.

A bonus world and a really difficult one at that. At least with Woolly World you got something along that line and I really enjoyed going after the collectibles too, at least you had a reason to collect them for all the different Woolly Yoshi designs but here? I don't really see much of a reason tbh but that doesn't mean I didn't enjoy Crafted World because I did.

You have the Costumes I guess but still.

But...that doesn't make any sense. If there is a bonus world, then you haven't really 100%ed the game yet. And isn't that basically what it did? When you beat the game and got all of the flowers, then you unlocked a super hard bonus world, which is the exact boss battle that those here are complaining about. So what you just described is exactly what the game gave you. There cannot keep being infinite bonus worlds every time you 100% the newest one.

Xyphon22

3DS Friend Code: 5069-3937-8083

rallydefault

@Bolt_Strike
Agreed. I mean, it was fun to play through once, but that's pretty much it. Going back to Yoshi's Island on the SNES Online is soooooooo much better. I would love if they'd go back and make an old-school, challenging Yoshi platformer in that model.

@Xyphon22
The best 100% reward in my opinion is how Tropical Freeze handles it. A new, ridiculously hard mode that even if you never beat, you can still say you unlocked lol You still 100% the game, and it gives you way more than just "here's a sparkly thing for your character... now that you have nothing else to do in the game."

rallydefault

Mana_Knight

I got this game for my birthday yesterday, but am thinking of selling it. It makes me sad, as I love Yoshi's Island and Yoshi's Story (first N64 game I had) and the gameplay itself is enjoyable enough, and visually very pretty, but I am just so overwhelmed by the collecting. I know that I don't have to, and I could just rush through, but it does feel the collecting is the real meat of the game, and I just get too overwhelmed by it. I am Autistic, and things like that, just kind fill me with dread. I would have to get 100 percent if I play more. I was ok when I thought it was just the 20 red coins and sunflowers, like the early levels, as that seemed doable, but then along comes people demanding you go into this level and that level (sometimes twice) to collect more crafts for them, and THEN it brings in Poochy Pups on every level too! I think it is too much for me

Mana_Knight

StuTwo

@Mana_Knight I've not played Crafted World yet (I'll probably get it late gen when the game is cheaper) but the general thrust behind your comment is something I broadly agree with.

There is a vocal community out there (here) that loves collect-a-thons but I'm not a fan. The original Yoshi's Island struck a great balance by having collectables integrated as a high score system (you could easily ignore them and accept a low score and - of course - you could know the location of everything and still get a low score if you weren't careful) but over recent decades games have pushed more emphasis into creating "more game" by simply increasing the number of collectables.

I think in the age of YouTube walkthroughs I'm not even sure what the point of a collect-a-thon is.

StuTwo

Switch Friend Code: SW-6338-4534-2507

CITRONtanker

The collect-a-thon aspect of Crafted World is a turn-off to me, but the more pressing issue is how much of a downgrade it is of Wooly World in practically every way- music, level design, challenge, everything.

Buy Kirby and the Forgotten Land

Mana_Knight

Yep. Glad that I am not alone there. It does feel like they have really falsely extended the length with these things. I sort of feel if I go through with playing it, then it would feel like a chore, and I was only collecting them to fulfill an OCD tendency, not because I feel it is fun. This game should be super chill, but it is stressing me out because of this!

If a game is really fun, even if linear, then I will replay it at some point.

Mana_Knight

Dogorilla

I really enjoyed the game but I agree the amount of collectables is way over the top, and finding them is generally not very enjoyable.

"Remember, Funky's the Monkey!"

Funky Kong
Losermagnet

@Mana_Knight yeah i didn't care for it much myself and sold it relatively quickly after finishing it (didn't 100% just standard play through). If you look at the collectibles as a long term goal then it might be more tolerable. If you're finding that you don't care for the game in general then you're probably safe to sell it. The only thing I enjoyed was the boss fights.

Switch friend code: SW-2223-7827-8798
Give me a heads-up if you're going to send a request please.

Bolt_Strike

@StuTwo Item collection is closely related to exploration, having items to collect encourages you to explore every nook and cranny to find them. So having more items means more exploration. For Yoshi to expand its exploration without just cramming in more collectables, they'll need to make the levels bigger and less linear, that's the only way to improve that aspect. Crafted World does take baby steps in that sort of direction with its mechanics (allowing you to aim in the background greatly expands the amount of hiding spots they can use, having flipside levels gives them double the real estate for the same level), it just hasn't polished those improvements yet. They may have to go 3D or at least 2.5D to fully fix that, but they seem to be building the foundations for that with the new mechanics, this game seems to be a first step in an evolution for Yoshi. I think a decade or so down the line when further releases polish and build on what this game did, we'll be able to appreciate this game as the first steps towards those releases and they'll end up even better than Woolly World.

In general, I'm not a fan of games that rely on level gimmicks for originality in lieu of trying to build on the actual gameplay formula and experiment with new game-wide mechanics (sadly, the Wii U was lousy with platformers that did this: 3D World, Tropical Freeze, and Woolly World were all in this sort of vein so in my eyes, we're just exiting a dark age for platformers). That kind of originality tends to be shallow and fleeting, it only lasts as long as the levels that use them, so the overall experience still tends to feel samey and boring, and that trick can only work so long before people catch on that the mechanics themselves are repetitive and need updating (see: the recent Kirby games). Whereas something game wide can provide new and original experiences for EVERY level and helps the overall experience instead of just a few standout levels. So I'd rather have something more like Crafted World, even if it's not as flashy and polished, than something like Woolly World, which while it has some unique levels is just the same old Yoshi with a yarn coat of paint (and even that's not really original, since Kirby already did the yarn thing, Woolly World just took Epic Yarn and adapted it to Yoshi's mechanics). If you can get both right, like Galaxy and Odyssey did for Mario, then boy oh boy do you have something special, but I'd rather have a Crafted World style game than a Woolly World style game.

Bolt_Strike

Switch Friend Code: SW-5621-4055-5722 | 3DS Friend Code: 4725-8075-8961 | Nintendo Network ID: Bolt_Strike

StuTwo

@Bolt_Strike We clearly have very different ideas on game design - I thought DKTF and 3D World were 2 of the best platform games ever made. I can't think of much wrong with them. Certainly DKTF is the gold standard for level design in my eyes.

I think it's fine that some people (like yourself) love collect-a-thons. Personally I understand the argument that they encourage exploration of every level... I just don't think it works in 2021 for a variety of reasons - yes there are well designed puzzles that are rewarded with collectables but when they actually require little skill to obtain (once you know where they are) then what's the point - you can 100% the game by watching a YouTube video.

I always feel like there's this arms race between the devs to create "unknowable" and "mysterious" hidden secrets in games and the internet to uncover and document every interesting detail about games and I don't think it's one that the developers have been winning or one that can probably ever be won.

Which is why I personally feel the right path for 2d platformers is action and skill based (though I'm glad that games aren't developed exclusively for me! Variety in design and intent is a great thing).

StuTwo

Switch Friend Code: SW-6338-4534-2507

Bolt_Strike

@StuTwo It's not as much that there's something wrong with them as much as they're just... boring. They don't really do much of anything to build on the formula, they're mainly just level pack sequels, and the gameplay starts to feel stale when they do that too much (this is why series like NSMB and the recent Kirby games have been hated on, those are just more unpopular because they've been done to death, if we got 4 games in a row of 3D Land/3D World, DK, and Yoshi doing the same thing there'd be a lot more complaints for those series too). I'm looking for the "next step" in those series and games like 3D World, TF, and Woolly World didn't really provide that, whereas you could see that a bit more easily with Crafted World.

I don't think you should use "you can look it up on Youtube" as an excuse to belittle collectathons. You could make that excuse for a lot of things about video games. Why play through a story if you can just watch it on Youtube? Why experiment with things when everyone else already experimented with them? Part of the appeal of video games is that YOU are doing these things and so they're often best enjoyed when you experience things yourself and figure things out on your own instead of Youtube holding your hand. It's like solving a math problem by looking at the answer key, you don't learn the skills the game actually wants you to learn on your own and you don't really get a sense of satisfaction when you solve it like that.

Edited on by Bolt_Strike

Bolt_Strike

Switch Friend Code: SW-5621-4055-5722 | 3DS Friend Code: 4725-8075-8961 | Nintendo Network ID: Bolt_Strike

StuTwo

Bolt_Strike wrote:

I don't think you should use "you can look it up on Youtube" as an excuse to belittle collectathons. You could make that excuse for a lot of things about video games. Why play through a story if you can just watch it on Youtube?

This is exactly why games with a strong linear narrative focus are a complete waste of time and why "it has a good story" is not something that would ever sell me on a game (and would in many cases actively put me off a game).

That said I'm not belittling collectathons - I appreciate they have their fans. I'm just not in alignment with them (which is not always a bad thing - I'm glad that not every game is made exclusively with me as the target audience).

Why experiment with things when everyone else already experimented with them? Part of the appeal of video games is that YOU are doing these things and so they're often best enjoyed when you experience things yourself and figure things out on your own instead of Youtube holding your hand. It's like solving a math problem by looking at the answer key, you don't learn the skills the game actually wants you to learn on your own and you don't really get a sense of satisfaction when you solve it like that.

Again - I appreciate this but I just think that far too often collectathon games are designed in a way that the collection is either just trivial (effectively just padding) or overly obscure in which case there is no enjoyment.

If I'm forced to think exactly like the developer to solve the problems they have set for me then there is no creativity on my part. I look to games to give me options and the freedom to creatively solve my own problems.

StuTwo

Switch Friend Code: SW-6338-4534-2507

Bolt_Strike

StuTwo wrote:

Again - I appreciate this but I just think that far too often collectathon games are designed in a way that the collection is either just trivial (effectively just padding) or overly obscure in which case there is no enjoyment.

Yeah, there's little that can be done about that, that's usually a result of the developer failing (usually because they don't have a big enough budget) to create a large enough level for the game to be satisfyingly long so they use collection as a way to make the game feel longer.

StuTwo wrote:

If I'm forced to think exactly like the developer to solve the problems they have set for me then there is no creativity on my part. I look to games to give me options and the freedom to creatively solve my own problems.

And linear platformers like 3D World and TF are somehow better at this? Linear platformers are typically even worse to the point where some of them demand that your actions exactly match what the developer wanted or else you do. The best platformers at doing that would be the sandbox Marios, they have a diverse enough moveset and a large, open level design that allows you different ways to reach a particular location.

In Yoshi's case, I don't really find much wrong with what they did in concept, the execution needs to be better. The main problem is that there's not enough content in the flip side levels to the point where it feels fairly tedious to go back through them again, they need to fill them with more than just 3 Poochy Pups to make re-exploring them interesting. Allowing you to complete some of these extra fetch quests your first time would also help. Again, the foundation is there for an evolution of Yoshi's gameplay that is MUCH better than Woolly World, they just need to make better use of the improvements Crafted World introduced.

Edited on by Bolt_Strike

Bolt_Strike

Switch Friend Code: SW-5621-4055-5722 | 3DS Friend Code: 4725-8075-8961 | Nintendo Network ID: Bolt_Strike

StuTwo

@Bolt_Strike Games like TF and 3D World (and the NSMB games) are better at this IMO - they make you feel like you're performing. This is really explicit in the NSMB games - they literally give you an applause if you do some optional but tricky platforming just to show off.

It's the difference between playing a piece of music yourself on a piano and looking around your room for a cd.

There could be a positive future for collectathons but it's definitely a "back to the drawing board" thing IMO.

StuTwo

Switch Friend Code: SW-6338-4534-2507

Bolt_Strike

@StuTwo That's not really creativity though, that's more like the design equivalent of a difficulty selection. You can take the easy path or the hard path. But there's generally still a specific solution required to stick to that path, so you're not actually getting the opportunity to exercise any creativity. Creativity works better when you come up with solutions that the developers might not have thought of, in linear platformers the developers' solution is generally the only solution. That's much less true in the sandbox Marios. I don't think collectathons need to go back to the drawing board at all, Odyssey and Bowser's Fury have a solid framework for how collectathons should work. You just don't like them.

Bolt_Strike

Switch Friend Code: SW-5621-4055-5722 | 3DS Friend Code: 4725-8075-8961 | Nintendo Network ID: Bolt_Strike

StuTwo

@Bolt_Strike Actually I like Odyssey a lot (though slightly less than 3D World or the Galaxy games). I also agree with you that being in 3d makes it a different experience to 2d collectathons. Odyssey is very much an open sandbox collectathon to be prodded and poked whereas the levels in Yoshi games are discrete and linear.

To me a very linear platform game is like a performance that has opportunities for self-expression in there. It's the gaming equivalent of playing a piece of music on a piano (which I admittedly can't do). I do think the creativity in there on the part of the player goes beyond simply selecting a difficulty (though there are superficial similarities). Actually I think the mode in Mario Run where you collect toads is a really compelling one because it is explicitly a performance and a creative act.

For whatever reason I just don't get that same thing from games where I simply need to collect things - particularly when everything is broken down into levels. I do think there is a lot that can be done game development wise with them but I stand by my opinion that they need to be re-thought.

But - again - that's just my opinion. I'm glad we get a variety of games and hopefully everyone gets something from Nintendo that they can really enjoy!

StuTwo

Switch Friend Code: SW-6338-4534-2507

Oswinner

Enjoying this game at the moment. Got all the gems and defeated Baby Bowser a few weeks ago. Since then, I’ve been picking up and playing, trying to get all the flowers, whenever I feel like a chilled game when stuck/needing a break in other games.

Underrated game this.

Currently at 291 flowers out of I think, 693? So a lot more to go lol.

Oswinner

TommyTendo

I still need to play this game. I bought it around launch, but I have yet to play it.
I loved Woolly World, so this should be up my alley. But the thing is, I don't want to play it solo. I played Woolly World co-op, so I would need to find someone to play it with lol

Edited on by TommyTendo

TommyTendo

rallydefault

Funny this thread just came back up!

I randomly put the game back in my Switch last night because I never did beat the final secret boss (robot section - I think we all know what I'm talking about).

Finally got that down, so I've officially seen the whole game! No, I didn't get all the flowers, but I do know what the reward is, and I'm ok with not getting it haha

It is a great game, just waaaaaaay too much to collect for my tastes. But I do highly recommend a full playthrough for any platformer fans. Certain levels/objectives can be deceptively challenging.

Edited on by rallydefault

rallydefault

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