Topic: Disappointed by the lack of new exclusives

@Ralizah everyone is taking in different directions. Jax is calling a big game by sales and personal pleasure. You're calling a big game by it's marketing hype in the runup. You guys really can't be that unaware of what I'm describing in terms of a games scope, can you?

Are you really going to put warioware, sushi striker, dread, and Mario tennis in the same pot as botw, Odyssey, xc2, bayo 2/3, prime 4, even Splatoon and call them all the same size scope, and pricing tier of game with a straight face? How about switch 2 when Nintendo starts charging $70 because they always follow industry standard price? Will Mario golf and ac amiibo festival new play control suddenly be worth $70 alongside Splatoon 8 and botw 4?

That's the thing, Nintendo HAS done a lot of smaller games than other companies. And they were charming. And they were also always cheaper than other games so the value felt right. 3ds had a constant stream of Nintendo games. They were largely small games. But they were also $10 cheaper than console games, and the even smaller ones were $20 cheaper. Pokemon was never a full price handheld game, and the handheld games were never full price console games. So it felt fair. Now they seem to have less big games, less games, and the small ones they want industry standard console price on. Yes that started on wiiu with hands like rainbow curse. But it didn't matter because the good stuff was on 3ds. If switch games, or the smaller scale games were still $50 I think it would be more justifiable. Add it ALWAYS was until now.

I don't know what to say if everyone doesn't understand what I mean by smaller games. "Indie in size and scope", "low budget small content games?" "Minimum to sell products?" "single A*? It's not about gfx or budget, but SNES had bigger scope games than some of them. Ironically the graphics are the only part that IS better in some cases.

But you got to it in hd development slowing them down. I think that's the other contention. Nintendo games scale shouldn't be slowed by that by much at all. They're not building a fully interactive London like watch dogs, they're not building half of Mexico like fh5, they're not building huge server infrastructure like battlefield. We're taking puzzle games and 2.5d side scrollers. Only botw and 3d Mario really get that defense. As you said Nintendo particularly had difficulties. You're right and that's part of it, exactly. Everyone else has been doing this since 2006 minimum. They have screwed up royally if they haven't figured out how to do it in 15+ years. That's kinda the point right there. And then they want the customer to pay the tab by just paying more for content where the graphics are really all that's different from what 3ds and Wii offered. How exactly is that different from what Sony is doing with their 100.+ Blockbuster junk and passing the tab along? Which I know we agree on. And how should we react when Nintendo goes $70 to match it, and they WILL, are still making hd boosted Wii/3ds games? And doesn't discount them while Sony does?

Because I guarantee you that's the switch 2 future right now because everyone is proving right here they can get away with it, and they know it. See you at $100 preorders for Mario Teaches Typing!

Btw, you were civil and social in this debate so it was enjoyable. Others got inappropriately heated in tone and it sapped the fun right out, so thanks!

Also, regarding blue, I'm pretty sure he misunderstood what you said, earlier, or just doesn't get the trademark ralizah sarcasm . His reply didn't really match the snark. And I'm pretty sure he's just fed up with rampant overzealous defense of both Nintendo and ps actions in various camps, which I wholly understand at this point, but is more likely to blow a fuse over it than I. I won't tag him on this comment and make it awkward but at the risk of paying mediator, you guys aren't fundamentally juxtaposed, and it would be worthwhile to come to a truce on that. Yes he can tilt toward xb fanboy statements at times, but is also fair overall. Earlier I think the tone of this thread overall plus your "Xbox output still sucks" line just set him off against that backdrop and he forgot or didn't know you're multiplat. He's definitely a reasonable person to have in a debate normally. And while you disagree with me, you're far from the biggest switch zealots around.

Ok and with that I'm really done and spending all this time back on playing games. On that evil switch I must obviously hate so much . Happy Thanksgiving, all.

@NEStalgia I understand that most people aren't going to see games like Sushi Strikers as being sufficiently meaty compared to something like Zelda, yes. But I wouldn't say, lump Metroid Dread in with the former group versus the latter, for example. It feels like a 'big' Nintendo release to me, whatever that is. Is Mario Kart 8 a big release? Because that shares probably nine-tenths of its DNA with something like Mario Kart 7 on the 3DS. Some people would only class Mario and Zelda as the "big" first-party releases, and ignore stuff like Fire Emblem: Three Houses, despite that being a hugely meaty release. For some people, Pokemon games are very "big," even though something like BDSP is probably sub-Warioware in terms of the effort and money put into making it. You don't consider LM3 to be a big release even though it's a larger game than the previous two in scope and arguably on par with something like SMO in terms of its presentation.

It's not that I don't obviously have a hierarchy of games that I care more about than others. But I think that's a largely personal thing, as there are no objective standards for it. So, what I really think this boils down to is some people, like yourself, not valuing a lot of Nintendo's properties as much as others on here do. And that's fine. But I don't think there's an argument to be made for their first-party output being terrible at this point unless you're only counting so-called "big" games like Mario and Zelda, or only purely internally developed stuff. Most Nintendo consoles only get one Mario game, one or two Zeldas, so this is all right in line with what you can expect from them in a given generation.

In terms of original first-party software, will Wii U/3DS end up having had more games on them together than Switch does singularly? Probably. 240p handheld games are easier to pump out than HD stuff. That's the price you pay for getting everyone together on one HD platform, since some of these developers are going to take their dear, sweet time adjusting to the new workload.

Price has never bothered me too much with Nintendo games, personally, precisely because they don't seem to drop in value. Nintendo collections are investments if you buy physical, not money pits. Although I do have to draw the line somewhere, and if Nintendo starts asking $70 for their games in 5 - 10 years (which yes, I agree they will if the new MSRP Sony is pushing catches on), let's just say I'll be leaning heavily on my backlog, or even buying used to make up the difference. Maybe leaning on Xbox Game Pass if Microsoft hasn't wildly jacked up the price by then and gets more Japanese support going forward.

Anyway, you posted your one courtesy reply, and I don't think I really have anything more to say on this issue. You know my feelings, I know your feelings, so I don't think there's anywhere to go from here. Enjoy SMT V and have a happy thanksgiving.

If you didn't use Metroid Dread in the "lesser" list and Metroid Prime 4, which is just a WIP logo in its known state, in the "greater" list, and didn't refer to scale as scope, I would agree with you. The scope of WarioWare's gameplay for instance I would argue as bigger than most of the games mentioned, but the scale in which that scope is presented may be the smallest listed. I would make a similar case for games like Ring Fit Adventure and ARMS, both are easily within a larger scope list but not in scale. Personally, I would pay more for larger setting scope and gameplay as opposed to larger scale. Breath of the Wild in particular I think relies too much on scale and gets a pass for lackluster areas in its gameplay due to its scale. Is climbing up Dueling Peaks in the rain a premium gameplay experience for example? There should be more considered towards a game's value than just the scale of its environments.

And here I thought @Chipia as the owner of this thread didn't even care with feedbacks here, literally just only let other users make some arguments until page 13. 😒
If you have an issue with 1st party exclusives on Nintendo Switch, blame to your cherry picking attitude in getting the games.

It's a bit foolhardy to consider that question in isolation. Personally, in the context of the sense of anticipation and exploration I got when going pretty much anywhere for the first time in that game, I would say the experience was unparalleled.

@symmy I disagree since games are what sells consoles, and that especially goes for Nintendo ones.

I don't do cherry picking when getting games. I enjoy 3rd party games as well, but the when I got the switch my highest expectations were for the exclusives, especially as Nintendo only has to develop for 1 console this generation. I've been playing Nintendo consoles since the early 90s and the main reason I enjoyed them so much were the exclusives.
The problem here is not that Switch is a "bad" console.
It's that many people, for good reason, think that the Switch didn't quite deliver what they expected.

@chipia What did you expect from a console that’s spent half its lifespan in a history defining pandemic?

@faint Yeah, I can't help but think that we'd have had at least four or five more big first party releases on the Switch were it not for the pandemic-induced delays. Rather a lot of Nintendo's internal development groups haven't produced a new game since 2017/8 and I'd think it far more likely that they got caught deep in the development cycle than were just unproductive.

Still, at least the Switch is doing better than the consoles that have spent their entire lifespan in the pandemic. The PS5 exclusives lineup is still looking rather threadbare and Microsoft pretty much gave up on giving the Series X any meaningful ones before it even launched.

@NEStalgia “Mario Teaches Typing HD Definitive Edition Remastered & Knuckles” is the game we truly need for these troubled times.

I'll try to do it quickly this time because this is like talking to a brick wall that's safely behind glass. This thread is about games developed by Nintendo exclusively for Switch and then we discussed the outsourced games. Impossible for me to lose credibility for stating facts such as fewer in-house games as listed on page 3, which is my main argument from the start. In regard to impressive sales and critical acclaim, no, that doesn't mean that those games are not divisive. I'm well aware of how much hype and praise Breath of the Wild received but also consider that many fans are disappointed with it because of no true dungeons, monotonous shrines and dull side quests, lack of music and disappointing bosses, just to name a few reasons. There are many more reasons but those I listed are essential in a The Legend of Zelda game since SNES. I'm a huge The Legend of Zelda fan and this is a divisive game for me and many other fans. It's a great sandbox game that I enjoyed as such but ask yourself if it had received so much praise if it was developed by Ubisoft and called The Legend of Fenyx: Breath of the Wild. In spite of this, I have said several times on this thread that the quality is relative (I said this to Antimatter about Animal Crossing) and my intention has never been convincing anyone about loving or hating games but I (and others) don't think that Switch has received the best entries in their respective franchises and you guys must accept that. Super Mario, (Breath of the Wild is a Wii U game), Mario Kart (no new game), Mario Tennis, Mario Golf, Donkey Kong (no new game), Yoshi, Xenoblade (not in-house but studio acquired by Nintendo so I added it to the list). Best entries ever, you say... Super Smash Bros. Ultimate (not developed by Nintendo), maybe, because it's a greatest hits. The others, though, best games ever? Really?

A lie.

We all are a vocal minority, most Switch/Xbox/PS owners are normal people that just play some games sometimes but here there are the Switch zealots that are internet warriors that waste 99% of their free time here and don't accept anyone criticising Nintendo or Switch nor they accept other Nintendo fans comparing Nintendo to Nintendo. They don't accept anything against Nintendo, even if the arguments are rock-solid.

I didn't call them Nintendo fanboys, I am a Nintendo fan like most people here. I said that there are Switch zealots that give a childish reputation to Nintendo and to Nintendo fans, even if they are 40-year old. I am the one that was called troll for no reason, didn't you notice? I also was insulted in a comment that was later edited.

The reality is that Nintendo have done very little as developer since 2016 even though they only have one platform to support after abandoning Wii U very early. The quality of the games, we can discuss forever about it and I didn't say that they are bad games (some are, e.g., Yoshi) but you can't deny that Splatoon 2 and Super Mario Maker 2 are Wii U expansions and you can't deny that New Horizons was hollow at launch. Anyway, have a nice evening.

@alexwolf So are you saying is argument is invalid because you like those games? Or are you saying its not Divisive because Most people like it? Because I for one would say those game could be, as there are a lot of reasons to not like them over others.

I can't believe that I lost what I was typing. I'll have to make it even shorter now. I was replying to @Bolt_Strike, basically saying that your list is off-topic and therefore you are the one that don't understand. I also wrote that you are utterly obsessed with this topic but your arguments are off-topic so you are not making much sense (on this thread, at least).

This is how I feel. They don't want to discuss anything, they just want to say that everyone that criticises Nintendo is wrong. They talk as stockholders and they even go off-topic because the topic is something that they can't handle. They will even call you troll, put words in your mouth that you didn't say or insult you and then edit their comments like we've seen on this thread.

The comments written by @NEStalgia are relevant, revealing and accurate, like people using business logic as arguments as if it invalidated the fact that Nintendo have done very little as developer since 2016 and that the only AAA games developed by Nintendo or a first-party studio for Switch are Super Mario Odyssey and Xenoblade Cronicles 2, with a lot of A and AA games priced the same in between like @NEStalgia explained so well. About the outsourced games, I talked about that in my previous post.

@MrHonest And I agree with you.

@gcunit Nintendo are doing the minimum they can do, right. That's why @NEStalgia talked about marketing, nostalgia and brand awareness which is what Nintendo is doing with Switch. I call myself a sucker because I bought Mario Kart 8 DX after buying Mario Kart 8 and all the DLC. I pre-ordered Super Mario 3D All-Stars and I hate the fact that it doesn't include Super Mario Galaxy 2 and that Super Mario 64 is 4:3. About the other thing you said, according to Rare (I know a few members), Nintendo wasn't involved in development at all. According to Mercury, all Nintendo did was cut content that was already developed and we all know that Metroid Prime 4 was rebooted after years because Nintendo didn't like the game. Metroid Prime 1 was also rebooted because Nintendo didn't like the game.

I wonder how can I be an Xbox fanboy when I bought an Xbox One for Rare Replay (as proved on my Xbox Museum) and that was the first Xbox console I've owned (or played) while I have every Nintendo console except the NES because I was too little and Virtual Boy because it was never released (here). Right now, I have a Wii U, a PS4 and a Series X connected to my TV and a SNES Classic and a Switch Lite near.

I want to thank @NEStalgia and @Snatcher and also the rest of the people that have talked to me respectfully about this topic whether agreeing or disagreeing or somewhere in between.

Good night.

@BlueOcean Back at ya, It was fun talking to you, just goes to show we don't always have to agree, something I wish more people new. Happy thanks giving!

@Snatcher Thank you and same!

they just want to say everyone who criticizes Nintendo is wrong

In the mind of those making a criticism, it's automatically correct just by nature of being criticism, and any attempt to contest it is automatically unfounded, and only from "fanboys" who "defend"

It's the same tired old fallacy used time and again to try to validate an argument. "I'm criticizing so nobody has any right to contest it, and if you do, you're just a defender". Ya ya. We've heard that a thousand times before.

Most ppl have no issue with criticism when its something they feel is valid. Like the pop-in of Pokémon Sword and Shield. Or the lack of messaging on Switch. Or the excessive price for the expansion pack for solo members. Or the low handheld resolution of Xenoblade. Nobody has issue with valid criticism. But ppl do take issue with agenda-driven criticism, ignorant criticism and that which isn't built on solid ground (no matter how much the proponents claim it is). When a criticism doesn't make sense to someone, they tend to object.

And simply objecting to your criticism doesn't make someone a fanboy. It just makes them someone who disagrees with your specific assessment. Not all criticism, just what they perceive as unfounded and untruthful criticism. I find it troubling how swift the feet are of those rushing to box in and label their detractors to delegitimize them rather than their objections. When someone is so eager to smear those who object, it calls into question the integrity of their argument.

Ppl claim they want a discussion, but they really don't. You can't have a discussion without two opposing views. But then anyone with an opposing view gets accusations thrown at them. So ppl want the appearance of wanting a discussion, but really they just want everyone to roll over and agree with them. Any dissenting views are quickly seized upon and discredited as "attempts to defend any criticism".

The whole thing is a charade.

This shows that you don't get your facts right.

Wave Race: Blue Storm isn't in-house (NST).
Snipperclips isn't in-house (SFB Games).
WarioWare isn't in-house (Intelligent Systems).
Sushi Striker isn't in-house (indieszero).

I'm sure many of those SNES, N64, Gamecube, Wii, and Wii U games you think were developed in-house are in fact not.
And so your argument that Switch has fewer in-house developed titles is just fantasy.

Okay, let's see who doesn't get their facts right.

Wave Race: Blue Storm is in-house (Nintendo Software Technology).
Snipperclips: you're correct, so one game to remove from my list, supporting my argument even more.
WarioWare: last two entries developed by Nintendo and Intelligent System (partly in-house like the 3DS game).
Sushi Striker: not exclusive, it's on 3DS.

Although mini games are not part of my main argument, since Snipperclips wasn't developed by Nintendo then Nintendo's output is even worse so thanks for supporting my main idea without realising. The only meaningful game that you listed is Wave Race and you're wrong about it because NST is Nintendo Software Technology (in-house development). I don't know what you tried to prove with that comment (that I am wrong?) but you clearly failed. If you want to believe that Nintendo's development is the same or has improved, feel free to do it and I won't bother you but don't tell the others that they're wrong when you are wrong. And very confused.

@NEStalgia Sushi Striker is also on Nintendo 3DS so another non-exclusive.

@BlueOcean NST isn't in-house. It's not based in Kyoto where Nintendo HQ is. It's in USA. It's an offspring. You don't know the definition of in-house.

It doesn't matter anyway. Even if you count all NST games. Doesn't change the fact that the in-house output ratio is the same as it's always been.

You don't even get the most recent stuff correct but try to sell us wrong memories of the past, how does that make your argument more valid?

And you don't count puzzle games and "minigames" (casual, fitness, party games) and stuff, even when they are clearly in-house? Is that some kind of genre racism? You bend and change the argument until talking to you makes no sense.

@SKTTR Firstly, you were wrong about everything except Snipperclips that is a mini game. NST is in-house, it's a studio created by Nintendo, it's first party, it's 100% Nintendo. We are also including Monolith as in-house development. You keep projecting your confusion onto me when you are the one that is wrong and confused?