@Octane Do I believe the world hates Nintendo? Yeah. Do I also believe the world hates Sony? Yeeep. Ive seen so much crap flung at Sony for movies or weird decisions with Playstation. Same with Xbox and PC. Always going tto say let people do what they want and enjoy what they want. Dont poop all over their day because they like the produce of a certain company. Constructively criticise yes, question yes, but dont slander.
You think little of me, that much I can tell, and thats fine. Do I truly believe the world hates Nintendo? Depends how big your world is. However in this current climate of uncertainty, dorection and a recent colossal failure, examining their negative points and deciphering all possible routes, reasons and rectifications is a good way to temper expextations.
As I said above, a third party cult exclusive drew ire to Wii U and didnt help. But as stated that could just be due to volume by another user. This enables the further discussion of what we may want or expect in certain aspects of Switch.
@FragRed Id see the internet catch fire just for BG&E2 just having a release date. Bayonetta 2 was a surprise. This is a delayed piece.
Now Playing: Mario & Luigi Brothership, Sonic x Shadow Generations
Now Streaming: The Legend of Zelda: Echoes of Wisdom
@Shinion@BLP_Software One thing that is important to remember is that most of the backlash comes from a vocal minority. And it's best to not spend too much attention to it. What I don't like is feeding that negativity by trying to confirm it, whether it'll happen or not. Or in this case use the example of a game become exclusive as proof that the world hates x company. My point was that regardless of the platform and game, when a popular series becomes an exclusive on another platform, that always sucks. The same thing happened with Rise of the Tomb Raider and that timed exclusive deal on the Xbox. Yeah, there was some backlash from PS4 users, and rightfully so. Doesn't mean the world hates Xbox and wants to see the company burn down though. I can understand - in this context - it would garner some complaints and that is completely fine.
Anyway, going back to what I first said, there's always negativity that is not validated, and the best reaction to that is to just ignore it. Cause it happens all the time, with everything, for every company, whether its film, gaming, politics, etc. You're not helping it by adding fuel to the fire.
That being said, I don't think that the attitude in this particular thread has been negative at all. People have questioned the Switch, I too, and rightfully so. Doesn't mean I, or anyone else for that matter, want to spread negativity about Nintendo. Just wanted to get this out here as well. It's easy to be excited about something, but sometimes it's better to challenge something and see what its shortcomings are, if it survives that test, then it's a pretty good product. In my field we do this all the time. When you're writing a paper, you want to get it peer-reviewed. When it's your job to review a paper, you don't look for the good things, even though it's great to hear what you've been working on is good. Instead you look for the mistakes, the arguments that aren't well formulated, the data that is questionable or poorly presented, unaccounted parameters or variables. And that's the first thing you do when you're reviewing your own work first. Try and see where it fails, and if it doesn't, then it's presentable to the public. In a same way I look at consoles. I try to find their shortcomings, see on what accounts it may flop, not because I dislike it, the opposite is true, I want it to succeed.
I'd love an announcement for Bayo 3. Not only because Bayo 2 is one of my favourite games this gen, but also because I'd pay to see the reactions in internet again. I mean, the game released on 2014 and we still get people crying about it on 2016!
The topic on Gaf about Bayo 2's announcement is pure gold and must be preserved for everyone's viewing pleasure. If BG&E's rumored announcement causes the same reaction, it will make its way into my bookmarked page for when I want to laugh at idiocy.
@Luna_110 Definitely going to be interesting to see the games announced. Nintendo not going to show absolutely everything in the presentation but at the same time it has to impress.
@Shinion@BLP_Software One thing that is important to remember is that most of the backlash comes from a vocal minority. And it's best to not spend too much attention to it. What I don't like is feeding that negativity by trying to confirm it, whether it'll happen or not. Or in this case use the example of a game become exclusive as proof that the world hates x company. My point was that regardless of the platform and game, when a popular series becomes an exclusive on another platform, that always sucks. The same thing happened with Rise of the Tomb Raider and that timed exclusive deal on the Xbox. Yeah, there was some backlash from PS4 users, and rightfully so. Doesn't mean the world hates Xbox and wants to see the company burn down though. I can understand - in this context - it would garner some complaints and that is completely fine.
Anyway, going back to what I first said, there's always negativity that is not validated, and the best reaction to that is to just ignore it. Cause it happens all the time, with everything, for every company, whether its film, gaming, politics, etc. You're not helping it by adding fuel to the fire.
That being said, I don't think that the attitude in this particular thread has been negative at all. People have questioned the Switch, I too, and rightfully so. Doesn't mean I, or anyone else for that matter, want to spread negativity about Nintendo. Just wanted to get this out here as well. It's easy to be excited about something, but sometimes it's better to challenge something and see what its shortcomings are, if it survives that test, then it's a pretty good product. In my field we do this all the time. When you're writing a paper, you want to get it peer-reviewed. When it's your job to review a paper, you don't look for the good things, even though it's great to hear what you've been working on is good. Instead you look for the mistakes, the arguments that aren't well formulated, the data that is questionable or poorly presented, unaccounted parameters or variables. And that's the first thing you do when you're reviewing your own work first. Try and see where it fails, and if it doesn't, then it's presentable to the public. In a same way I look at consoles. I try to find their shortcomings, see on what accounts it may flop, not because I dislike it, the opposite is true, I want it to succeed.
I mean, your continued hyperbole is irritating at this point especially after I already called you out for it in my previous comment.
You responded to someone who was merely pointing out what should be obvious at this point about how some people have already made their minds up and how people should be hesitant at taking everyone (especially those people) as wholly sincere and honest by bringing up this extreme borderline conspiracy theory out of nowhere that did nothing to refute what they said.
I personally think that more could-and potentially should- be done to counteract such things happening here but nothing has changed since I suggested possible improvements months and months ago unfortunately, with such things as what happened just a couple of pages ago where "most Nintendo fans" were just tarred with the same brush for completely no reason by someone who takes pride in their maturity to not engage in dem there Console Wars and then just exited with little engagement or backing up of their accusation. It's called *REDACTED*posting and it sucks, gets in the way of any worthwhile debate or positivity and other sites have taken steps to curb it as much as possible.
You're right that it's a vocal minority which is fortunate but it doesn't help matters when this hyperbole you're using is used to defend them. Maybe, to borrow your turn of phrase, try to extinguish the fire instead of blaming those who "add fuel to the fire" and framing them as unstable extremists? Especially when stirring the pot seemed to be this individual's intention by their continued absence from this thread.
It's apparent what these people want, they want Nintendo best on their favourite system, and that's fine (at least for me others may think otherwise) but at least don't be sly and try to paint your intentions as something more sincere, especially when it's as blatant and trite as it was a couple of pages ago.
Some interesting thoughts on what Nintendo need to do to make the Switch a success.
I largely agree but I'm a bit more optimistic. The trio of battery life, power, and price aren't absolutes - personally I think Nintendo should prioritise battery and price over power, although its seems that they can get it within reasonable range of the XBO and it definitely appears more powerful than the Wii U.
Also a mention of virtual console and Wii U ports, as has been discussed at length here. I pretty much fully agree with him on these points.
And then there's marketing, where I agree to an extent that Nintendo should shift their target demographic. I think that the most important thing about the Switch is that it combined Nintendo's efforts into one system. This is an excellent opportunity for marketing as they can focus on selling this one system. I want to see the Switch on the side of buses, on billboards, on TV. Nintendo should engage more with social media and online services such as YouTube - a lot of their potential customers will be there. And how about social features on the console itself? How about letting you share your Zelda progress on facebook? That's advertising in itself. Nintendo really need to, and really can, step up here.
@Buizel Good video, I recommend others watch it. I also disagree with him on certain things, he's convinced that kids and the 'casuals' who bought the Wii are never going to buy a Nintendo again which I think is ridiculous. Also I remember that puppet in a video that completely massacred Colour Splash not long after its announcement and he puts far too much emphasis on the importance of franchises like Metroid as these people tend to.
@Shinion Hmmm...I think it's more complex than saying that "casuals" will never buy into Nintendo again. I agree that Nintendo shouldn't target the "casuals" first and foremost. They need the system to resonate with gamers before it can appeal to new audiences.
But, in my mind, a casual is a potential gamer. Everyone starts off playing games casually. Nintendo's future success relies on them getting new customers. The casual audience is important, but I think it's a difficult audience to keep in the long-run, and a risky audience to target primarily.
To sum it up, I think Nintendo should target the core gaming audience (which is fairly sizeable), and hope that this drives them to more mainstream success. The people following it from day one, after all, will be the more dedicated gamers.
@Buizel My entire problem with it is when (as it was here) the concept of people who aren't 'hardcore gamerz' buying a dedicated game system began and ended with the Wii/DS and any/all future attempts to appeal to that type of consumer are desired to end in failure because nothing will be the Wii/DS again. Like every single one of the 150 million people who bought a PS2 have continued buying games and going back even as far as the NES/SNES too. The vast majority of people who love the original Super Mario Bros or Sonic the Hedgehog are so not because of the fact that they were real games for real gamers but because they were simple, effective and open to virtually everyone. A certain subset of gamers really do look on the Wii/DS (and mobile has taken that ire now) as though they were damaging or attracted people to videogames who didn't belong.
I find it ridiculous when you consider that practically every successful product (not just in this industry) is so when it is appealing and doesn't come with barriers to entry. Thinking that the Switch at this point is anything like that is silly, and I'd hope that that is a priority for Nintendo unlike this guy who seems to be in this 'real games for real gamers' bubble.
As you say we were all 'casuals' at some point. The more people invested in this industry the better IMO, games were never as open as they were last gen with the Wii, Xbox 360, PS3 and DS all selling silly amounts and the fact that the Wii U, Xbox One, PS4 and 3DS will only get a fraction that is a shame.
And with 3rd parties moving further away from typically casual oriented games (with many just being cancelled and dumped) and Sony having very, very few non-M rated 1st party games that have the potential to appeal to a wider audience options are extremely limited. As he says we're all waiting to see how Microsoft handle their multi billion acquisition of Minecraft and aside from that there isn't much else. Taking all that and saying that Nintendo should just admit defeat and not try to reach out to this clearly neglected audience is extremely defeatist and unwise.
@Shinion the difference is that now games are more accessible than ever. Casuals have mobile to get their fix. They don't need a dedicated system to play games.
And this is where I say mobile should complement the Switch. Use mobile to get the casuals interested, and have the switch as an option for those that are willing to do more serious gaming. And it looks like it could be working - look at the success of Pokemon Sun and Moon after the release of Pokemon Go.
obe1 just posted new switchmas vid. Says switch is indeed getting a vr headset.
Switch seems to be obi a unique position to do this.
Slide the screen into a headset and detach the controllers and you've got quite a potent vr setup for almost no cost. Take that, ps4, with your 800 bucks.
I personally couldn't care less if the Switch had VR. To me the Switch represents gaming on the go, and in social settings with friends. VR...is the opposite of both of these things. Not to mention that it would be very limited power-wise. I'd much rather see what the other companies have to offer before Nintendo takes this route.
@Shinion
I have an issue with talking about categories of gamers in general. Particularly in regards to the Wii and DS. Because with the people I know who had a Wii/DS it wasn't that simple. There was no one movement from nothing to Wii to phones. There were whole groups of consumers who shifted to Nintendo during that console generation and then away again. It wasn't all to and from the same places.
What was amazing about the Wii (and DS) was that it appealed to a mass market. And that doesn't just mean casuals, that means everyone. Go back to some of the earlier talks Iwata gave about the Wii and you'll see him saying it back then. Nintendo basically divided their audience into three. They were core gamers, new gamers and lapsed gamers. Now this might get a bit ranty so I'll try and organise it a bit....
Core gamers:
The whole point of the Wii was to ignore what that audience said they wanted from new console hardware and give the market something else. What this audience says it wants alienates the rest of the market. It annoyed a lot of people in places like this but the thing about this audience is that it's a zero sum game. If Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony all target the same audience? One of them is going to lose. This is the most valuable audience but they're also the hardest to please. When forums cry about third parties, GFLOPS and software delays? This is the audience that's talking. Give us Zelda and we'll shut up for about a week.
Lapsed gamer
These are all the people who used to play games but stopped playing for some reason. Nintendo talked about them a lot during the Wii era. It was a large part of the reason why the Virtual Console was a thing. They're nostalgic but more than any other group they want a novelty. More than the new gamers. If you think that's wrong lets bring it back to the Switch. Right now a lapsed gamer would be a person who was into gaming with the PS3/360/Wii but hasn't got a PS4/XBOne/Wii U. Would a PS4 clone win them over if they're not really interested in the PS4? I think it's fair to say that if they PS4 hasn't won them over they're going to be won over by something different. Right now the Switch is potentially that different thing.
New gamers
This audience has no nostalgia and no expectations. They're not necessarily won over by something new because everything to them is new. The Wii did well with this group but not so much because it was different. They did well with this group because the Wii was easy to understand. Put the disk in the thing, the controller in someone's hand and say "tennis". None of the current consoles are particularly good at this. The Wii U in particular is pretty hard to explain. The Switch won't be another Wii in this category but it's on the right track. The core concept of the Switch can basically be explained in two pictures
A simple concept like that? This is how you capture a new audience
I think Skywake has got it spot on there. The Wii didn't do well because it was a gimmick - it did well because Nintendo marketed it well. They identified their audiences, provided a compelling story for each audience and communicated it clearly.
It was a marketing masterclass.
Likewise the Wii U didn't fail because the casual audience 'disappeared' or 'migrated' to phones. It failed because Nintendo didn't clearly target a single audience and failed to communicate the benefits in a cohesive way. Everyone was left wondering 'is this really a console for me?'.
I hope they'll take full advantage of the Switch's screen. I'd love if there were games that use it vertically like some DS games made you hold your DS like a book. Some games (for example Pinball games and possible DS VC) would benefit from the vertical screen. The screen would need some kind of additional stand to hold it in its place though while you have the Joy-Cons in your hands.
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