Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

@JaxonH For me it's about that every year has had very surprising 3rd party ports whether on a technical level or an exclusivity ending level and those ones have generally gotten more surprising as time has gone on. The Playstation exclusive Final Fantasy blowout announcement in the September 2018 Direct I'd say is still the most surprising of them all but following that would be a bunch of 2022 announcements.

@Grumblevolcano
At the time it was pretty hype. Final Fantasy X was my first ever JRPG I played through and beat. Thought it was never gonna leave PS. I used to think it would be so cool having those games on Switch, but didn't think it would actually happen. So when it did, I was bouncing off the walls. Seeing Final Fantasy VII Crisis Core come day and date was just as hype though.

Persona 5 Royal is another. Everyone said it was never gonna happen, but I always believed it would get ported eventually.

There's been a lot. Ori and the Blind Forest followed by Will of the Wisps. That was massive. 13 Sentinels.

Switch has gotten so much more than I ever expected. It's changed the game. But Switch 2 is when I think we see the seismic shift occur. Now that 3rd parties know Switch consistently gives them best selling versions of their games, and once they have a platform that can run all their games adequately, they're gonna blow it up.

Switch 2 will likely become the best console of all time (not necessarily best selling). If it has BC with all Switch games and irons many of them out, and gets blown up with twice as many games as Switch did... the real golden era is still ahead of us. The Switch is just a foreshadowing.

@JaxonH I will have to research why quick resume doesn’t seem to work on my system. It just breaks.

@Ryu_Niiyama
That's weird. Could be a specific game that's not compatible. I know there are some exceptions

I started a new job earlier this month, and increased my hours, so have had very little time for this site and any gaming, so got some catching up to do.

@Ryu_Niiyama I initiated a conversation with you here, weeks ago, in which you'd given me a reasonably lengthy response. I've been meaning ever since to reply but just lacked the energy/time to do so properly. Apologies, never intended to ghost you. Fwiw, you've not done anything to particularly indicate you had an issue with me, but you tend to make it clear you don't suffer fools, and I've wondered previously if I've occasionally skirted to close to the 'Jerk' line for your patience. Anyway, just know that I'm glad not to have crossed that line significantly (to date) cos I enjoy the opportunity to read your posts and interact. Any time you wanna throw any specific philosophy or tech book recommendations my way, I'm here 🙂

Oh really? You just realised something...? More like you've been crawling through my post history looking for some of my nuggets to dig up and claim as your own... 😜

I'm still on the fence too, though. Breath of the Wild went 'Boom!' because it reinvented the Zelda series in a fantastic way and coincided with the release of an exciting piece of new, portable, hardware. The perfect storm for a console launch.

Unless Nintendo has outdone themselves though, I am not expecting Tears of The Kingdom to be able to reach the heights of 'reinvention'; it just can't possibly hit with the same impact BotW had - it's just a sequel, with the same art style, the same/similar version of Link (I assume), Zelda etc. and as such it's not necessarily going to be the best software to release with a new console. A new console launch ideally needs some new software that has something distinctly new and different about it - is ToTK going to be distinctive enough to fulfil that role?

More Splatoon 3 icons are December's NSO rewards.

@gcunit I like that... "I don't suffer fools"...as for the ghosting I never am bothered by that as I work so much that I am not online consistently. So I catch convos when I can and move on when I can't. No biggie to me. I usually give a three strikes rule unless a person is obviously a jerk or is unhinged. Then I gotta go ASAP. If I engage, I enjoy speaking with you/I have something to say is my rule.

Not sure your level, but I re read Morris Kline's Mathematics for the Nonmathematician often, as it is a lovely foray into the history and culture of the craft. I feel like I learn something new every time I read it. If you are more advanced, I have a few books on Quantum Field Theory I can suggest. I also like to reread Hyperspace by Dr. Michio Kaku when I feel adrift. (That book put me on my path and I corresponded with him when I was a teenager). Philosophy wise I am reading an inquiry into the good by Nishida Kitaro and doing my monthly read of Ki in Daily Life by Koichi Tohei-sensei and history wise I am reading the half has never been told by Edward Baptist (looks at the american slave trade and its impact on bedrocking the american economy).

I still say TotK will have a limited edition OLED rather than switch 2/whatever. Congrats on the job!

Man, it looks like XC3 is going to get knocked out in the second round of voting in TGA "Player's Voice" award

Only the top 5 games advance to the final round, and right now Sonic Frontiers is in 1st(!), followed by Genshin Impact, Elden Ring, GOW: Ragnarok, & Stray.

XC3 is in 7th, which also places it behind Minecraft in 6th, so it has a chance but it's an uphill battle.

@gcunit
I'm not sure I fully buy into a launch game needing to do all that. If it does that's a bonus, but ultimately the only thing I think it needs to do is be really really good.

People just want a super fun game to play on their new system. It'll have some wacky NintendoLand for demonstrating the hardware capabilities. Aside from that, it just needs to have a really great game beside it day one so ppl have something meaty to play.

If Switch 2 drops with Zelda, it'll be a cross gen release, so nothing about it would be "special" on Switch 2. The selling point is what everyone has been begging for- just better graphics and performance. Those who aren't early adopters can play it on Switch. But there will be plenty of ppl willing to preorder a new Switch if it runs games better.

I think we can put a huge * on the statement "Moore's Law is Dead", at least in terms of the side effects of it and how they relate to gaming. Especially portable gaming. All Moore's Law is is an observation that about every 2 years the number of transistors you can fit on a die doubles. Which as a side effect means either exponentially smaller, cheaper and more power efficient products at the same performance or exponentially more power at the same size, price and power consumption. And these side effects are still happening

I mean for one thing, the core observation of Moore's Law itself is still going

But more importantly for gaming performance and mobile performance we're kinda in a bit of a renascence for new techniques and software tricks. Everyone here is probably sick of people talking about DLSS but DLSS is certainly one of those tricks. And there are similar tricks around AI trickery going on as well as new kinds of tricks relating to the different kinds of hardware needed for AI trickery. While that's going on? VR needed huge framerates in low powered devices so Asynchronous Reprojection suddenly needed to become a thing

Then there are the changes from other advancements in the industry. SSDs becoming affordable has meant developers can shuffle around the GPU's relationship with mass storage. The smartphone explosion has meant there was suddenly an interest in reducing idle power consumption and thermal management. The smartphone and more recently the EV industry has meant rapidly improved battery tech. And the display industry is bringing faster response times, higher contrast ratio, higher peak brightness all of which give a perceived better image

I'd argue we're right in the middle of the most rapid advancement in improvements for mobile gaming we have ever seen. I mean sure, there are diminishing returns in terms of the visible differences in the image you get out of it at the end after a certain point. But that fact doesn't stop the march, it just accelerates the closing of the gap between mobile and non-mobile hardware

@skywake
I won't get into whether Moore's Law is dead or not, because I don't actually think it's relevant.

What's relevant is the resulting correlation with perceived graphical fidelity. And that is most certainly no longer correlated with Moore's Law. So even if Moore's Law continues on, the perceived impact of it does not. Though Moores Law certainly continues on in the mobile sector, which helps close the gap further each generation.

One only need compare the graphics of a GBA game to GameCube, then a DS game to Wii, then 3DS to Wii U, Vita to PS3, and now, Switch to PS4. The perceived visual gap has grown ever smaller, particularly since the mobile boom around the time Switch released.

I think I shared the screenshot comparison of Hellblade on Switch vs X1 vs XSX, and how little of a difference there is beside resolution and fine granular details.

That perceived visual gap is going to shrink even more substantially when Switch 2 releases. To the point I don't think you're going to be able to tell Switch 2 games apart from PS5/XSX games without a 4X zoom or combing over with a technical analysis. It'll be running at lower resolution in handheld but on a smaller screen which hides artifacts.

It's just like SteamDeck now. Spiderman on SteamDeck looks identical to Spiderman on PS5. Unless you do a side by side analysis, to the naked eye it looks the same. I expect that will be the case for Switch 2 as that gap shrinks smaller than its ever been before.

This is due to diminishing returns. Even if Moore's Law is alive and well, you get ever diminishing returns for perceived graphical fidelity.

@JaxonH
TBH I think my post basically agrees with what you're saying. My point was more that not only is Moore's Law not dead yet but that recent developments have meant gaming "performance", and especially for mobile hardware, have outpaced it. That combined with what's almost a logarithmic relationship between "performance" and perceived fidelity? That diminishing returns thing. And you get this accelerated closing of the gap in perceived fidelity

That was a word salad.... what I mean to say is that the raw power increases? That's still growing exponentially due to Moore's Law. But it's accelerating FASTER for power limited devices due to better thermal/power management and improved battery tech. Which means the gap between the Switch and even a PS5 is smaller than the gap between the DS and PS3 was. Then ontop of that neat tricks like AI Upscaling, VRR, Frame Interpolation are allowing you to "magic" perceived smoothness for "free". Which mostly helps lower powered devices, closing the gap even faster. And ontop of that? Something like an OLED screen or even a higher contrast LCD with HDR, that'll improve the visuals far more than increased shadow resolution

And all of this BEFORE we talk about the diminishing returns of higher and higher fidelity games. Something which just compounds the effect even more

But even so, this will all happen much slower if Moore's Law stopped doing its thing. But thankfully it is still going. I suspect you're right, we'll hit the point where the difference between portable and non-portable for games is basically negligible well before Moore's Law actually dies. And I'd agree with you, we're not that far off the point where they're basically the same already. The Switch as it is.... isn't quite there yet. We're probably another 5-10 years off it

@skywake
Preach. Agree 100%

Switch 2 will get us 95% of the way there. For all practical purposes it'll be close enough. But Switch 3, that'll be the system where buying anything else that can't also play handheld will be like flushing money down the toilet. Because the games will essentially be the same. Just one version gives you 3 modes of play, while the others give 1 mode of play. By the end of this decade that's where we'll be. It's exciting to think about.

@JaxonH What if, hear me out, we have 5 modes of play by the end of the decade.

@Kermit1Pineapple
What are you thinking. TV, handheld, tabletop, VR and projector screen all in one device? Maybe it could come with a Keurig built in by the cartridge slot?

@Kermit1Pineapple @JaxonH
Just my take on it but maybe I'm not being imaginative enough, I don't think the form of devices changes too much beyond what we already have. Basically desktops (or home consoles), laptops, VR headsets, portable consoles/tablets and smartphones

My long term prediction/gut feel about it? I think the only way forward for VR is to split itself away from PCs. I think in the medium term Valve releases a Steam-Deck like stand-alone x84 VR headset, a Quest competitor, that has access to the Steam Store. In the slightly longer term I think the "home console" becomes the cheaper option as they continue to stop pushing the spec as hard in that space with diminishing returns

..... but even in that world power guzzling gaming PCs will continue to be a thing. I think smartphones still largely exist as they do now. I think laptops for work/school still exist as they do now because keyboards are useful and Windows will probably remain the "work" OS. And desktops generally outside of gaming? There will always be room for shaving a bit more time off a render/compile/whatever

I honestly feel like I have hit a bit of a wall with Tactics Ogre, I know it is an older game and isn’t a full remaster, which is probably why it is missing what I would class as basic things for a modern game. I am some 15 to 20 hours in, and still have absolutely no idea what anything does.

You get some really basic tutorials which basically tell you what buttons are and then you are told to go on your way. You have this extensive stat sheet for every character, but have to guess what every stat does, and every change I can make be it class, weapon or gear all significantly guts all of my stats and only improves on a couple and not nearly enough to make up for everything I lose, so why would I change anything? No idea, the game doesn’t tell you.

As a result of this, I can’t tell whether the game is really hard and full of infuriating difficulty spikes, or if my lack of information from the game has meant that I have accidentally built all my characters wrong, but man, I just hit will after wall. And the game also doesn’t autosave after every battle completion, so sometimes I will clear a battle quite comfortably, then get immediately curb stomped on the next one, and because it didn’t autosave I have had to go back and do the mission I cleared, and now I can’t clear it for some reason without losing half of my team.

In fairness to them, losing team members isn’t really a massive deal, you can just buy more soldiers from the shop, but then the game has to come to a standstill while you level those soldiers up from scratch, as for some reason they always start at level 1.

They have also tried to - whether intentionally or not - circumvent some of this tedium with the AI profiles for troops, including the MC, which means you can almost make this like into an auto battler, but I guess to stop you from using the game in this way, the squad AI is absolutely atrocious.

In most missions, there is usually only one or two units you need to kill and then you clear the mission. Beelining for these targets and clearing them as fast as you can is the most efficient way to play, you may get less buff cards, or items or XP, but the shorter a battle goes, the less likely you are to lose any units and have to get back onto the grind treadmill.

But for whatever reason no matter what AI profile you set, and even if the boss unit ends up directly in front of one of your own, they just seem to refuse to engage them until they’ve gone all the way around the edge of the map clearing each and every regular unit first. It is completely maddening. I wish I had way more control over the AI profiles I was able to give to my Units, I think that would solve a lot of my frustration.

what is your favorite Bayonetta 3 weapon?
Color my World
Scarbough Fair
Love is Blue
G-Pilar
Ignis Yoyo Arane
Dead End Express
Simoon
Alruna
Tartarus
Cassiopea
and Cruel Altea
mine is Ignis Yoyo Arane, what is yours?

@skywake
I think their reply was in sarcasm. None of us think VR will ever be anything more than a niche segment of the market (well, aside from at least one person here who thinks it's the future and will dominate everything).

Switch is the final form. Switch 2 will certainly continue the 3-in-1 hybrid form factor. It's the final evolution of video game hardware. There's nowhere else to go. Unless a day comes where some other form of relatively cheap media consumption takes over the market, this is it. Switch is the foundation for the future of Nintendo. From here they just iterate, and add some cool new bells and whistles.

@JaxonH I still think a Switch 2 (or 3) having a camera is somewhat likely.