Topic: The Nintendo Switch Thread

I don't think either of those points mattered quite as much as a third and significantly more important point. The jump in resolution really mattered. And not just on the display but the bitrate of the disks and the move from analogue video cables like composite and S-Vid to HDMI. And again, neither of those things are as true with 4K as they were with the move from SD to HD.

At the end of the day even if you buy a 4K set if you're streaming video the quality will be limited by your internet connection. The only way to actually see proper 4K today is to either buy a UHD BluRay or render a game at native 4K. Neither of which most people are really doing.

Will 4K sets become common-place? Definitely, it's already a thing. But unless people actually care about 4K content we'll be continuing to be doing the 2017 equivalent of playing Wii Sports on a 50" Plasma. In other words "4K streaming" in <15Mbps and "4K ready" consoles that render at <1440p.

@skywake 15Mbps isn't that much though. I'm currently getting a little over 80Mbps over WiFi at home, and I don't even have an expensive subscription. I know it's different if you live in the US or Australia, but for most people I think that 4K streaming is definitely possible.

@Octane
Whether or not you personally have that sort of connection is beside the point. The question is whether or not Netflix/Youtube will actually serve the bitrates required. For example Netflix at 4K is built to run at ~18Mbps if you have the bandwidth. It varies a bit depending on the content etc, etc but in general they ask for only 25Mbps to support optimal 4K streaming on Netflix for a reason. BluRay is ~35Mbps for 1080p

So as I said, resolution isn't the only factor here. As cool as being able to stream videos "at 4K" is it doesn't really mean much if you're bandwidth isn't higher. When push comes to shove 4K Netflix should technically look about as good as 1080p BluRay does. If it looks better then that's either HDR (which does matter), the placebo effect or you're watching a fairly static piece of content

I just read the Famitsu numbers on MCVUK and they differ quite a bit in some instances with the Media Create sales from Wednesday. I know a lot of people trust Media Create more.

New 2DS XL tops Japan's hardware charts after 30% fall in Switch sales

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/new-2ds-xl-tops-japan-s-hardwa...

http://www.4gamer.net/games/117/G011794/20170719080/

@skywake
Yea, I mean: my internet goes WAY over 25Mbps, and I don't even have the top-tier plan from my provider (next to top, though lol). Doing the 4k stuff on Netflix is pretty darn cool. Even with fast internet and no buffering, I understand that I'm still not getting the absolute optimal 4k resolution that can only come from reading native data on the machine/TV, but dang: it looks NICE.

I also have an UHD BluRay player that I use - it's awesome. Do you own a 4k? I mean, personally, when I'm viewing stuff in 4k, it's AMAZING. The "bump" in resolution is real. I think it's typical internet pessimism and people with sub-optimal internet speeds that are poo-pooing how different the image looks. Even the slight upscaling on cable channels is nice; nothing major by any means, but it does look nice.

And if you're a fan of some of the more realistic games on the other platforms: Holy cow. When the One X and especially future iterations hit the market that can truly, truly do 4k natively. Watch out. Games are going to look INSANE. And coupled with good gameplay and storytelling, immersion can have a new Golden Age coming up.

Personally I value the improved resolution but I know a lot of people who don't see the point in switching to the HD version of a channel when it's available because "it doesn't make any difference". I even know (multiple) people who subscribe to Sky's HD service but who watch on the regular channels. They don't realise it's not the HD feed and won't go to the trouble of changing their behaviour to watch the HD feed even when it's pointed out to them. They would never ever buy a film on BluRay over DVD unless the BluRay were cheaper.

These people make up, by far, the bulk of consumers and they bought their TVs based on screen size, price, availability and whether or not it'll fit in their room.

I think if we look at the switch from CRT to HD flatscreens as similar to the move from VHS to DVD then I don't think it's unfair to see the switch from HD flatscreens to 4K flatscreens as analogous to the move from DVD to BluRay. There's a tech/home theatre enthusiast market there and, eventually, you can leverage the regular consumers over but it's a much, much longer road.

The question as to supplying content is one about the business case. It assumes that delivering 4K content will be far more expensive but that the early adopters in enthusiast market will pay much more for it. They are more valuable consumers because they spend much more but do they spend enough?

Chasing them also seems to be part of Microsoft's business model with the One X. If they sell 5 million XBox One X's those 5 million owners might spend more on games than 20 million XBox One S's.

Yup, that's the only reason it might become standard eventually...I still maintain that it won't though - ever - but without a crystal ball, it's impossible to say definitively.

TV's are a staple of any household but, unless a new product solves the problems of the current standard, the average person isn't going to jump on board any quicker than they are doing - it's held back by the fact that it's perceived as being 'slightly better HD', rather than being a 'must have' game changer - because, frankly, it isn't...

You're absolutely right about the Xbox One X representing a solid strategy for Microsoft though...they have, by some distance, the most powerful home console on the market (catering for that crowd and providing a hell of a brand message) - but they also have the One S as an entry level console to sell to the masses that plays all the same games but on the average TV...and Sony are yet to really respond - they seem like they're just happy to cruise along with what they have at the moment - if there's any fresh momentum, it's with Microsoft at the moment, for sure!

(The Switch would have more momentum...if you didn't have to be a lucky raffle winner just to get your hands on one! )

I noticed that Ultra Street fighter 2 downloaded an update, I tried the game briefly and didn't notice any change, somebody knows what this update do?

@StuTwo
I think there is also a different issue at play with the "bulk on consumers" that you speak of. Yes, I agree - most people don't really give a dang when it comes to this upgrading tech stuff.

But I don't think it's just that.

I think it's also an element of not even being aware of the alternative. Take that "bulk of consumers" we're speaking about, and yea, they're content with their HD displays (or even like my parents - SD displays lol). But the majority of that "bulk" probably haven't even seen a 4k TV in action displaying native 4k content. And when they would, perhaps side-by-side with their HD displays, I guarantee you: they would see and prefer the higher resolution, of course (money matters being ignored for the time being). Not ALL, of course. You can provide anecdotes to the contrary until the cows come home. But MOST, for sure.

My parents were exactly this way. Up until a few months ago, my parents still had an standard tube television from the 90s. The thing was cutting off images at the sides, the colors were muted; it was crazy lol But they SAID they loved it and didn't want anything else. Well, my mom/brother/me got together for my dad's birthday and bought him an HD TV. He grumbled a bit as we were taking it out of the box and setting it up, but as soon as we pulled up some HD channels and Netflix, his tone changed COMPLETELY lol It was kind of funny to see. Now he loves it.

So I do think there's an element of that in play for large swaths of consumers: they just don't know.

I actually suspect, cynic that I am, that Sony will announce a "PS4 ProPlus" later this year for release late 2018 with the timing chosen purely to spike the XBox One X. As Microsoft announced the One X at the time they did purely to spike the PS4 Pro...

@rallydefault You don't need to convince me. I've always been one for going into shops and staring at the beautiful screens in demo mode - 4K screens look gorgeous. Anyone who sees them in action should want one.

But I'm not sure I could sell one to, say, my mother. No matter how good it looks her existing 40 inch 720p set (which I think looks awful) is good enough for her.

Unless the 4K set is basically free or her existing set breaks and the 4K is price competitive with 1080p sets I don't think she could be convinced to go for a 4K set. Partly that's because the content she's being supplied isn't generally even HD to begin with.

I didn't have that issue with the move to a 720p flatscreen because "it's a flatscreen and it's really thin and it's bigger than your existing set" sold her.

@StuTwo The next PlayStation will be the PS5. I think they've said it more than enough times by now. Maybe we'll get another slim or something like that down the line, but I don't expect them to release an even more powerful PS4. There's no reason to.

the switch eshop might have crashed? is that true?

@StuTwo If that happens, only one console will benefit and that's the Switch. People would notice to get the definitive Xbox/Playstation experience you'd need to buy a new console every 2 years as a result of petty arguments and just go for Switch instead which'll have a lifespan of longer than 2 years.

@Octane Maybe.

Announcing a "PS4 Pro Slim" at a reduced price probably makes more sense and is probably more realistic.

There are, however, solid reasons for Sony to produce a more powerful PS4 - regardless of how many you'd expect it to sell. Being able to say "our console is the most powerful on the market" gives you a huge marketing advantage. It can end up selling in quantities so small that it's basically a concept product but there is still a point to it.

Whether they call it a PS5 or not is kind of irrelevant. Sony's next console will almost certainly be based on an x86 processor and have full backwards compatibility. It'll be aiming at the same audience as the XBox One X.

@Octane That's what it looked like on the website, unfortunately. I'm just gonna try to get one from the store without one.

@StuTwo I agree with the last paragraph. I just don't think it will be part of the ''PS4 family''. The PS4 is outselling the Xbox One, and the One X won't change that. Meanwhile PS4 Pro sales only make up 25% of the total PS4 sales. Meaning that given the option, the majority of consumers will prefer a cheaper option over a more powerful system. I just don't see how another PS4 can change this, it'll only generate bad press I think, like Grumblevolcano said. On top of that, the One X will be $500, so don't expect it to do any better than the PS4 Pro did (less than 25% of the Xbox One sales).

And while they can't call their system the most powerful anymore, I think that if they focus on software they'll be fine. Or call it the best selling console [this generation]. Because the majority of gamers clearly don't care about power, at least not enough to buy a Pro instead of a vanilla PS4.

@KirbyTheVampire NA is weird when it comes to pre-orders. Anyway, good luck, but I think you'll fine though.

I don't think that that's just restricted to older generations either. I know that, for myself, when I last purchased a TV (when 4K TV's were too expensive to really factor in my decision) - I set myself a budget and looked at a number of things (brand, resolution, power consumption, # of HDMI/media ports, screen size, colour palate, innovations etc) then just whittled down my shortlist until I settled on the TV that represented the 'best bang for my buck' based on my wants and needs...

I can't say for sure - if it came to a choice between an extra couple of HDMI ports and an additional 10" - or 4K - I don't know what I'd choose...I'd certainly have to mull it over! ...4K looks nice and all, but it wouldn't offer enough of an improvement (when on a limited budget) to take absolute priority in my decision making process...

Now, the more the price gap closes between HD and 4K, the more it'd factor - for anyone, I'm sure - but it's nothing like the previous, relatively straightforward choice between an old bulky SD TV and a nice, thin, modern HD flatscreen...

EDIT: On the other point (PS5) - I'd like to see some sort of announcement along those lines at PSX or something ..I know that Sony have a pretty comfortable lead - but I just worry that, by standing still, the 'PlayStation' brand could risk stagnating...positive momentum elsewhere will hopefully spring them in to action - after a relatively uninspiring E3 (in quite a fickle industry) they should just be pressing home their advantage a bit more I think..

@Grumblevolcano I do think Sony kind of screwed themselves with the Pro. It wasn't a meaningful enough upgrade to really do much for the brand, and left the court wide open for XBox to do what they did. They could do a tit for tat upgrade cycle, but I agree with you that it wouldn't it well with the install base to get into "remember last year's better model? LAME! Try this year's better model, it's the real one!"....with 32x/Saturn/DC vibes all over again. I think Sony will hold off until they're ready with an actual 5.

Nintendo's not immune either. 3DS/3DSXL/N3DSXL had an upgrade path every few years as well, and I fully expect Switch will do the same.

@Octane isn't it funny for Sony to be in a position to say "it's not about power, it's about the games!" like Reggie's looping refrain throughout WiiU, considering how they flogged power the first half of the gen? Which is funny considering their greatest seller ever, PS2, was never about power (couldn't touch GCN or XBX, it was about the games...)

@Octane I can agree with that.

I don't expect Microsoft's business with the XBox One to catch up appreciably with the PS4 due to the One X. They're well behind and will continue to fall further behind in terms of % share of the market. I do, however, expect them to pick up a lot of the more valuable higher end consumers in the console space - the consumers who spend far more each year on games - and I expect Sony will react in some way. They have to.

A price cut for the existing PS4 Pro is obvious and easy but it leaves that console in a bit of a mid market no-mans land.

One thing that perhaps shouldn't be ruled out is Sony taking the "One S" route with the PS4 Pro. That is making a "slim" PS4 Pro that has some additional power available to close some of the gap with the One X (but not making a big deal about it).

These are uncharted waters.