Topic: Super Mario Bros Wonder

Honestly the "wonder flower" sections from the trailers gave me modern Kirby vibes. You know those levels where Kirby finds a super ability, nova fruit, or whatever and things change a bit. Though Wonder goes all out here compared to those games, but you get my point. lol

I'm getting Yooka-Laylee and the Impossible Lair vibes from the Wonder Flower mechanics. The Wonder Flowers seem to provide similar twists on the levels to that game's state changes, except these occur mid level instead of being two separate versions of the level. They also seem to be going for much wackier changes than Impossible Lair's which often times amounted to changing the environment of the level (such as freezing/flooding the level) or causing certain level gimmicks to move/stop.

I hope we get some like Hazard Hangar/Queasy Quay, those were really interesting in that they changed the perspective of the level, making them upside down and vertical respectively. I'd love to see some levels in Wonder do similar things. We already see one where the level tilts 45 degrees and causes a giant spike ball to chase you, so maybe they'll go for this.

My favorite professional Mario player had a weirdly negative reaction to the preview. He was afraid it would be too gimmicky and easy.

I suspect the density of gimmicks in the trailer was higher than in the actual game; I'm sure there will be plenty of traditional platforming. But also, gimmicks doesn't mean it's easy, even if we sometimes associate some of them with easier Kirby games. Mario has always had a pretty good combination of not-hard but not-boringly-easy plus a few harder challenges mixed in (often optional). I assume they will stick to that; they have their Yoshi spinoff games for the super easy alternatives.

I've heard a few people complain that 'Mario is getting easier since the old days', but I don't really see that. The early games were pretty easy, with the exception of the first game being a bit harder because of non-polished physics rather than because of actual level design. And of course Lost Levels. But for the most part Mario games weren't exactly hard to my 6 year self and there are New Sup levels I find harder than anything in smb3 or smw.

Given that Wonder seems to rate difficulty levels of levels, I'm assuming it will be like Mario Maker 2 story mode, with difficulty ranging from super easy to a fun challenge. Sure, nothing will be Super Expert in Mario Maker parlance except perhaps e.g. optional timed trials, but I think Nintendo knows to make Mario fun for both kids and adults.

It has been some time since a fully 2D title had this fresh feeling. I've only played two of the four "New" games. Didn't dislike them by any means and particularly enjoyed the DS original, but the two I didn't play looked like more of the same.

Six years since a fully original title. It's been that long since Super Mario Odyssey. O_O

My first Mario game was DS as you know, so it holds a small advantage nostalgia wise. Wii was IMO the best since it had fantastic multiplayer. 2 had a surprisingly fun focus but bad level design and unoriginality caught up. And U was just average across all fronts.

Just so we’re clear, I don’t count the Mario Maker games nor ports as mainline Super Mario games 😉 and honestly while I appreciate the new 2D Mario… you’d think they would be finishing up on a 3D one by this point. Feels like Nintendo misused their time a little with Switch, especially with the lateness of some games and ports.

More I watch the trailer the more I love it. Haven't felt hype for a 2D platformer like this since the 2013 e3 reveal of DKC Tropical Freeze.

@TheJGG
I think they're stockpiling for Switch 2.

They'll want a blowout launch year like Switch had. I suspect we'll see Metroid Prime 4, a new 3D Mario, Mario Kart 9, new Donkey Kong and some other wildcards that first year. So while spending them on Switch now is certainly an option, I'm not sure it's something they'll want to do for every game. Especially as we draw ever closer to 2024.

They've released a ton of games for Switch. The 1st party library absolutely dwarfs every console they've made that's ever come before, and despite HD development requiring more resources and longer development times.

I remember in the latter years of Wii U (particularly 2015 and 2016) and people wondering why more games weren't releasing. But then when Switch dropped and they hit us with Zelda BotW, ARMS, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, Splatoon 2, Xenoblade 2, Mario Odyssey, Pokken Tournament, Fire Emblem Warriors (or was it Hyrule Warriors? Can't remember) all in a 9 month window.

The fact we're still getting some 13 1st party titles in 2023, to me, says they're maximizing their time with Switch, especially given they're almost certainly stockpiling for Switch 2 launch on the side.

I considered but skipped NSMB Wii; that was after I played the other two and thought it looked like more of the same. Might've copped it for the multiplayer if I had anyone local who'd wanna play though. 2 looked beyond gimmicky and uninspired. I enjoyed my time with NSMB U (Wii U; never grabbed the Switch port), but it didn't wow me either.

I figured by your timeline that was the case: no ports, remasters or sandbox games among that count. While I would like a new 3D Mario title as well, I agree with @JaxonH : I think Nintendo is gearing up for a Switch successor or at least a major revision, so for now they're keeping some of their upcoming aces close.

Do we know who developed this game yet? I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be Retro lol.

Honestly I thought that NSMBU (with NSLU) is such a great game. The graphics were bland and the whole thing did often seem formulaic and it rarely threatened to surprise me but the execution within that framework was exceptional. It's one of the best platform games ever released - it just lacks a bit of character.

Wonder looks like it addresses the main concerns. If it does and it otherwise keeps the bulk of NSMBU gameplay then it's going to be an excellent game.

I agree, the NSMB games are great fun even if they're not especially innovative. Hopefully Wonder will be even better as it looks like a more creative spin on the same formula.

@StuTwo I think that's a perfect summary: they're great games, they just lack character. I've always enjoyed the series, although, for me, NSMBU felt like the formula was beginning to stretch a little thin. Wonder looks to be a complete rejuvenation of the series and really gives it the flair and style the games deserve.

@GrailUK We don't know yet, I checked the SMBW page on Mario Wiki and it doesn't show the developer as of now. If I had to guess, probably one of Nintendo's own studios, most likely EPD. Nintendo has pretty much made all the mainline Mario games in-house.

@MarioLover92 Yeah, you are probably right, but they did say they were trusting folk with their ip a bit more these days.

I just went back to NSMBU deluxe. I know I loved that game because I rated it 9/10, but for some reason I barely remember a lot of the specifics and this is the first time I had the urge to go back to it in 4 years. Somehow the levels are both very fun and not at all memorable at the same time. If nothing else, the crazy Wonder effects might fix that problem in the new game.

On a side note, after 4 years of playing super mario maker 2, the parts of nsmbu I know I found somewhat challenging now seem much much easier 😆 Still fun though. And everything just feels sooooo polished after playing 100s of hours of mario maker. I'm so happy we are getting a full new game.

@GrailUK Yeah, but Mario is THE flagship IP for Nintendo. It's far too important for Nintendo that I think they're not going to let anyone else take a stab at the main series (we've seen spinoffs already yes, but I doubt Nintendo is ever going to let an external studio make a main series platformer).

The Nintendo Wiki says it's EPD Group 10, the same team that always makes 2D Mario (https://nintendo.fandom.com/wiki/Nintendo_EPD_Production_Group_No._10). I can't find a more legitimate source on that, but this is basically what I expected. The 2D Mario team hasn't done anything since 2019 with NSMBU Deluxe and Mario Maker 2, it makes perfect sense that they've spent the last 4 years working on SMBW, that sounds about right for SMBW's dev time.

@Bolt_Strike Yeah, it's probably right. I'm probably just crazy thinking it had some of their vibes lol.

@GrailUK I'm not really feeling the Retro Studio vibes here, I've never known Retro to get this wacky. Their IPs usually have a hardcore and serious feel to them (yes, even the modern DK games, which while cartoony tend to be a tad darker and more serious than their other cartoony platformers like Mario, Kirby, and Yoshi). This does not look like something Retro came up with, I can definitely buy that this was an internal team's idea. I'm not going to go as far as calling you "crazy" here, but I definitely think your gut is off base.

@GrailUK It might be the silhouette level that made you think of Retro!

Having a 4 year dev-cycle with COVID restrictions seems like a perfectly reasonable timeline for a brand new 2D Mario.

@Dogorilla You know what, I think you are right