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Topic: Pokemon Sword & Shield

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Majormatt28

@Heavyarms55 It was reported that is false so 400-405ish is the number currently. I could be wrong but I've seen people debunk that they will add an additional 200 pokemon.

Majormatt28

Araquanid

just a refresher $30 DPP's pokedex had 493 pokemon and $40 XY's regional dex alone had 450.. $60swsh in 2019 on a home console has 400.

That's really.. really sad...

Also rumor is going around that some unmentioned story elements suggest they will not be doing a sequel to SWSH, we're not sure exactly but the leakers are saying swsh establishes something that makes sequels super unlikely and borderline impossible to happen.

Here's hoping maybe gen 4 remakes this gen... and heres hoping they actually include everybody. I'd be fine if GF did the trend of first game = half dex 2nd game = finished dex, but if every single pokemon game from now on won't have a full dex this franchise is going in the gutter.

Edited on by Araquanid

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iKhan

Snaplocket wrote:

I'd be just fine with that, if the game itself manages to deliver on story, length (no padding), challenge and you know, all the things I expect from a GOOD JRPG.

To be fair, not all RPGs made in Japan necessarily fit the typical JRPG structure of story interspersed with combat. Case in point, Monster Hunter.

Earlier Pokemon games were just fine without much story, because they leaned into that and focused more on the experience of becoming a champion on your own journey.

But if the games are intent on having lots of cutscenes and scripted moments as the series has been aiming for more recently, yes, a good story is a necessity.

Currently Playing: Steamworld Heist, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, Tales of Graces F

Heavyarms55

We were all fine with the size of the Pokedex in Gens 1-3 and I even remember people claiming as early as Gen 2 that 251 was too many Pokemon to remember. Personally I am fine with the franchise going forward if they treat it like card rotations in card games, with a mixture of returning and new Pokemon a focus one a central theme for that "season" rather than trying to hold onto everything. Pokemon was running into the same problem you have in the Legacy format in Magic or Wild in Hearthstone - too many creatures and abilities making it so you have tons of redundant creatures and abilities that, because they weren't designed to exist together, aren't balanced.

Game Freak had a lot of options potentially for dealing with this problem:

1. They could perform massive amounts of re-balancing every game, trying to make the various gimmicks work together and buffing and nerfing various Pokemon to try and keep some semblance of balance to the game.

2. They could let the game enter into an ever increasing power creep - like what they allowed with the Pokemon card game for many years. Constantly trying to outdo the previous entry with bigger and better and flashier creatures and abilities - or risk the problem games like Hearthstone ran into before rotations, of releasing new sets that were just outclassed by existing ones and largely ignored competitively.

3. They make cuts like they are doing with Sw/Sh and have rotations with mixtures of new and old going forward but try to balance a much more reasonable number of creatures and abilities. In a similar manner to games like Magic the Gathering and Hearthstone.

Personally I think the 3rd option is by far the best of the three for everyone. If they picked the first, they are forcing themselves to do more and more work each game and this means either longer development times or lower and lower quality rushed work. If they pick the second option, well I think out of control power creep or underwhelming new entries speak for themselves as to the problems they cause.

And keep in mind that they have already confirmed that Pokemon not appearing in Sw/Sh will be back in future games and are still part of the canon. To me this is all but saying they are going to utilize the rotation format. I don't think that this is the end of the franchise or that it is going into the gutter for this. I do think some people will be unhappy and may leave (or just complain until the universe goes cold!) but in a few years I think we'll all be used to it and we might well end up with a much more interesting and dynamic series, with a fresh competitive scene and varied single player adventures.

I'm still very eager to play these games. Raid battles sound very exciting and the absolute best idea to pull from Pokemon Go. Dynamax functioning like a Mega evolution but with a time limit (and it seems like an inability to switch) should make for an interesting competitive scene and meta game. I've been watching the trailer videos and I think the games look awesome! They might not have the highest resolution or detailed textures, but that doesn't bother me at all. These are still HD Pokemon games we can play both on the go or on TV and that's amazing in my book. I like almost every new Pokemon design I have seen this gen. Something I can't say about almost any other gen, even gen 1!

On a final note, while you might disagree with my positions, it's not accurate to complain about the number of Pokemon to the price of the game. For starters, what was 40 dollars in 2006 is not 40 dollars in 2019. And no matter what you want to argue, with the existence of the Switch Lite and such, Nintendo has been consistent with their pricing on the Switch, treating it as they do a home console.

Although it's a discussion for another thread, I think we should be grateful that the price of home console game releases hasn't gone consistently above 60-65 dollars, even though almost every other retail product has gone up in price over the years.

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iKhan

@Snaplocket

Snaplocket wrote:

There's also the fact that the previous Pokemon games were on handhleds, whereas this game is, technically still on a handheld but regardless it now costs full price so my point still stands.

Also, Monster Hunter really isn't a JRPG. Like, at all. Trust me, I've played them and the only one even remotely close is Hunters.

(Games like the Soul series and Nioh aren't really RPGs either).

I agree with you on Monster Hunter, that's why I called it an "RPG made in Japan". But I'd also argue that the first 2 Pokemon generations weren't necessarily JRPGs either given how little they focused on narrative, and how much they focused on player fantasy. I might even say it has elements of a heavily scaled back WRPG.

Currently Playing: Steamworld Heist, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, Tales of Graces F

Gravitron

@iKhan you have to think about the time period Gen1 and 2 came from and base your ideal of what an RPG is on that. They had a very limited platform and they made two of most expansive games imaginable with what they had.

Gravitron

BlackTalon2

jump wrote:

The Pokedex has been leaked;

No Scizor who is one of my favourites and it's odd Charmander is there but other region starters aren't.

my favorites, talon flame and clawitzer are excluded too. but my other favorite, basculin, is in.

Edited on by BlackTalon2

VIVA CRISTO REY !

Anti-Matter

@BlackTalon2
The starter evolution names sound cool.
Cinderace sounds like a Baron name.

Edited on by Octane

Anti-Matter

Octane

@Heavyarms55 I personally think 250 is perfectly fine too. I always thought that if the regional dex becomes too big, the old Pokemon overshadow the new Pokemon.

Octane

Justifier

400 is perfectly fine for ingame. Point when it matters is competitive scene. When from those 400 you only count pokemons last evolutions, and then take off those who just suck (qwilfish etc), how many usable pokemon do you get? It is not really fun if all players use mostly same pokemon, mirror matches are boring.

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darkfenrir

>expecting people not using mostly same pokemon even with all pokemon existing

Didn't VGC constantly have nearly same team??

darkfenrir

Justifier

darkfenrir wrote:

>expecting people not using mostly same pokemon even with all pokemon existing

Didn't VGC constantly have nearly same team??

Well, in VGC yes. And mostly legendaries. I have played mostly with Smogon rulesets, and there have been variety.

Of course when people play with "no rules", everyone tries to use best pokemon. I just wonder how many pokemon from those 400 will be in Smogons Overused tier for example. But it will be nice to see how they are making online games this time. I remember something about ranked playlists.

Edit. At the moment, there are 51 pokemon in Smogons OU tier, and from those 51 only 11 are in Sword/Shield. Meta will change, big time. But lets be honest, that is probably only a good thing.

Edited on by Justifier

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jump

Justifier wrote:

. Meta will change, big time. But lets be honest, that is probably only a good thing.

A change and balancing are two different things, Gamefreak have never been hugely interested in the metagame so I doubt the decisions they made on who to cut were to try and balance things.

I also don't see how making the pool of pokes smaller makes it more varied, it will just be like the first few gens when people were using the exact same Pokemon. For all of the complaints about people using the same teams the last few gens have had the most range of pokes in the Uber and OU tiers.

Most of mains of Garchomp, Klefki (I loved how people hated them ), Greninja, Scizor, Volcarona, Serperior and Chansey are gone now. I had Rotom, Charizard, Sableye, Mawile and Hawlucha in rotate too, however Hawlucha was mostly me being stubborn and trying to include him in the team as I liked how cool they looked but it never kept up in most battles.

Edited on by jump

Nicolai wrote:

Alright, I gotta stop getting into arguments with jump. Someone remind me next time.

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Arcamenel

400 is too low. It's fine for the regional but it should have included an expanded dex that bumped up to about 600 in the post game. I'm still not seeing any animations that justify such a big cut either.

Derrick
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Anti-Matter

400 for Galar Pokedex, 800+ for National Pokedex

Anti-Matter

Octane

@Arcamenel I think that was just a terrible excuse to cover up the fact that they want to reduce the pool of available Pokemon each game (which I'm personally fine with). It's just that they should've said that instead of using animations as an example, because they look notoriously cheap and are straight up copied from XY and SM. Preferably they would've included more animations as well, because with less Pokemon, you can focus more on the available ones. But alas...

Octane

jump

Anti-Matter wrote:

400 for Galar Pokedex, 800+ for National Pokedex

Where have you seen that? The datamine hasn't happened yet and the main leaker has already said it's capped at 400.

Nicolai wrote:

Alright, I gotta stop getting into arguments with jump. Someone remind me next time.

Switch Friend Code: SW-8051-9575-2812 | 3DS Friend Code: 1762-3772-0251

jump

Snaplocket wrote:

I'm pretty sure the only reason they're limiting the dex is due to space. The game's already take up over 10 GBs and it's pretty a much a given that's due to the number of models. Doubling that would be way more then what a Switch game card can hold and they can't let that get in the way of potential customers. To put this into perspective, the base game of Xenoblade 2 is just over 13 GBs and Mario Odyssey (which is ridiculously well-optimized) takes up just under 6 GBs.

You can get upto 64GB game cards and there's already games that are over 30GB out now.

Nicolai wrote:

Alright, I gotta stop getting into arguments with jump. Someone remind me next time.

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