No way man, Wind Waker water was opaque. Twilight Princess and Breath of the Wild have way nicer, clear water. Because water isn't actually blue, that's just it reflecting the sky — it's a transparent substance when viewed from a high angle.
Disagree, I've seen IRL water. I want to see new water. Big water. Video game ocean water. The slight differences from real life are what set it apart and make it interesting. I'd much rather that than garish or cartoonish caricatures that lose the essence of water.
By the way, Super Mario Odyssey has very nice water that you can actually dive down into, it'll probably have the best underwater gameplay since Inside.
@Haru17 No, it's actually blue. Water absorbs and emits all kinds of wavelengths, but peaks at blue. It just appears transparent in low quantities, and its colour is strengthened by the reflection of the [blue] sky. Just like how glass is often green or blue, but appears colourless if it's thin enough. Notice how the edges reveal it's ''true colour'', because light needs to travel further through the glass from one end to the other, and more light gets absorbed along the way:
Wind Waker's choice of a flat blue plain was obviously a stylistic choice, and I doubt that realistic water would've looked as good. And since you can't swim anyway, there's no point in showed what's beneath the surface.
And since you can't swim anyway, there's no point in showed what's beneath the surface.
And that limited ambition is why TWW water has been surpassed.
Look how nice Super Mario Galaxy's water looked with that fade effect on the translucent blue of the water's surface near Mario. Granted this is running in Dolphin, but The Wind Waker HD also happened.
@Octane I think it's much more beautiful to have dynamic water graphics than static ones. Galaxy, etc water is objectively cooler in that it handles looking down into the water, diving beneath and swimming around, and looking up through the water's surface as well as sailing.
But anyway, let's stop talking about The Wind Waker, it's not that interesting of a Zelda game.
What do you guys think the boo house kingdom will be? Will it make any Luigi's Mansion references like the water kingdom's SM Sunshine rocket nozzle flower? It would be cool if we played as Luigi for that world, even if he wasn't fully customizable.
Hey look I found better, transparent water in a cel shaded game where you can't swim underwater.
@Octane I am just assuming there will be a boo house level because it's a Mario game, I don't have and special knowledge that there is one and wouldn't post it without spoiler tags if I did. The other thing was shown in the Nintendo Direct, do I have to use tags for that too?
I mean, it isn't in this video, but that version looked a little different... Release Okami literally has black outlines that appear and disappear as you rotate the camera around the characters, how is that not cel shading?
It has to do with how the models are shaded (it's in the name!). Cel shading uses one single colour for shading (exceptions do exist), as opposed to a gradient. Notice how Link's hair is either yellow or dark yellow. The shading colour is always the same. Same with Link's clothes, either a light blue, or a dark blue for shaded areas:
It's the reason why WWHD isn't cel shaded, notice how there's a colour gradient over Link's face, or at the underside of his hair? You can clearly see where his face ''ends'' and where his neck starts. You can't differentiate that in the model above, it's all one solid block of the same colour.
Ōkami uses a (regular) gradient shading, with black outlines in this case. Clearly visible on the save mirror or the legs of the torches in this image:
@Haru17 While the Galaxy games had nice looking water, it wasn't that complicated. It might of had a nice shader but it was still pretty much just a flat plane that moved up and down and there were only a few simple textures.
I'll have to agree with what people said above and say that the Wind Waker's water was a stylistic choice. I don't think that game even had any transparent materials, and fair enough because it would look weird with that cell shader.
I'm impressed with the dynamic waves in Odyssey but it I still prefer the water in Pikmin 3 as it had interacted with the environment and refracted the light. However that would be hard to do for large lakes and oceans and wouldn't mix with the Mario art style. Breath of the Wild was a step in the right direction but the way that it interacted with Link was disappointing. Not being able to go underwater was also a shame.
Okami was a nice looking game but the water was not one of them in my opinion. The parts that jump out of the water looked nice but the main body of it was meh.
@Octane Oh, well, alright. You know what I mean though: A cartoon lookalike game that uses bold, solid colors instead of more naturalistic art. Okami doesn't use cel-shading to look like animated drawn art, it just uses colors, 2D sprites, and the borders we discussed. I don't really care about the specific shadow rendering — we really need a distinct term for that style of game art. Thanks for the explanation nonetheless.
Anyway, water doesn't typically have very discernible shadow effects on it, so I stand by what I said. It's just that their commonality is an anime style, not a cel-shaded one.
@Haru17 Looking at Ōkami again, I'm almost positive the game doesn't even use a lighting system and all the shades are texture based. But that's completely besides the point.
I get what you're saying though, but I think it would look out of place in Wind Waker.
@Octane If you go through all of the models in the game (like I spent too many hours doing, just to never use or look at again) all of the models are just textures without any shaders. The only exceptions are the outlines on some models but it's still a relatively simple effect. Apart from that it's all just some really impressive texture work and some shadows.
Forums
Topic: Super Mario Odyssey
Posts 801 to 820 of 2,055
Please login or sign up to reply to this topic