A steady 30fps looks as smooth to the human eye as a steady 60fps.
It doesn't. There are twice as many frames per second, so it's smoother by default, just like how 30fps is smoother than 15fps. The difference between 30 and 60 is very noticeable, 60fps is much more pleasant to look at.
@rallydefault What @Octane said. And just to set the record straight, I'm not saying 30fps is a dealbreaker, just that @Hyrule's earlier statement about people being unable to tell the difference is just absurd.
A steady 30fps looks as smooth to the human eye as a steady 60fps.
It doesn't. There are twice as many frames per second, so it's smoother by default, just like how 30fps is smoother than 15fps. The difference between 30 and 60 is very noticeable, 60fps is much more pleasant to look at.
If you're disecting the game frame by frame instead of just playing it then yeah you could.
Also, if I'm just one of those people that can't tell a difference in 30 versus 60 frames, I'm glad. Because I enjoy what I'm playing instead of worrying about it.
A steady 30fps looks as smooth to the human eye as a steady 60fps.
It doesn't. There are twice as many frames per second, so it's smoother by default, just like how 30fps is smoother than 15fps. The difference between 30 and 60 is very noticeable, 60fps is much more pleasant to look at.
People need to play it themselves to know the difference honestly.
Just that it's a marginal increase. Pretty much everyone here who doesn't have preconceived notions about framerate can barely tell the difference (if at all) in those videos, but the 15fps stuck out as choppy. That's when it's bad. That's when it borders unplayable. Even conceding that people can indeed easily tell the difference, there's a huge gulf between "discerning a difference" and being unplayable.
@rallydefault summed it up perfectly. It's like the jump from Switch to Xbox One. Is there a difference? Ya. Does it look better? Ya. But it's far, far, far less noticeable then the jump from Wii to Switch. Once you reach that minimum threshold of HD gaming it's perfectly enjoyable enough. 30fps is like that HD threshold where returns become exponentially more marginal. Is there a difference? Ya. Is 60 better? Ya. Should games strive to hit 60 if/when possible? Absolutely. But we're talking about a difference so negligible half the people in this thread can't even notice it, even when side by side and looking for it. People mean to tell me in those two identical videos, one is perfect and one is completely unplayable? It's like looking at two nearly identical shades of green and saying this one is the ugliest color in the world, but this one over here is the most beautiful.
Not even sure why it's being compared to 60 frames per second anyways because on other consoles it was 40 frames per second, 45 frames per second, 50 frames per second, and all kinds of frames per second. Yet everyone who played it was under the delusion they were actually getting 60... which yet again goes to the point that most people can't tell the difference- just brainwashed into believing they can- you tell them it's a constant 60 and they believe it to be so, yet they couldn't notice their so called "super smooth and fluid game" had 20 frame drops? Ya. Because people believed whatever they were told it was, and couldn't discern it for themselves.
All have sinned and fall short of Gods glory. Wages of sin is death. Romans
God so loved the world He sent His only Son- whoever believes on Him has eternal life. Unless you believe, you will die in your sins. Whoever believes, rivers of living water flow within them. John
@DTMOF84 I'm not dissecting the game, nor am I worrying about it. It's just a clear difference, night and day, and if it's possible, I prefer to play my games at 60fps. And again, it's not a deal breaker. I'm not buying a high end gaming PC to play TW3 at 60fps, I had no problem with 30fps. However, given the choice, I think I prefer a higher frame rate over a higher resolution, especially in fast-paced games.
@Octane
Technically, yes - 60 is double 30. But please read carefully. I said "technically," and I said the key word is "steady."
If I would sit you down in front of a standard HDTV at typical viewing range with an action game currently out say, Splatoon 2, and asked you if it was running at 30 or 60, you wouldn't know as long as the framerate was steady and you had nothing else running in the room to compare it to or previous knowledge of the game's technical specs.
@rallydefault What? You can tell the difference. That's like saying you cannot see the difference between 480p and 1080p if I sat you in front a TV. You can see the difference.
Almost everyone can tell the difference in framerate between film (24fps) and TV (30fps in stuff like documentaries, newscasts and sitcoms). If you can't tell the difference between 30 and 60, you're not trying hard enough.
Splatoon is the perfect example, actually. Try looking at how it runs when playing a match and how it runs when doing your thing at Inkopolis Square. The difference is very noticeable, especially when using gyro controls to look around.
I thought this thread was about DOOM, not a debate/argument about one of those most annoying and pointless topics gamers debate/argue about (BTW, #1 on that list is the ultra-pointless group of topics best summed up as "Console A's technical specs are better than Console B's specs so Console B sux!1!!1!!!eleven!!").
(Insert "That GIF of Grandpa Simpson walking in and walking out again" Here)
So DOOM will be out on November 10th. That's not far off. 2 weeks from now, to be precise.
I'll be picking my copy up in person, to play that weekend.
As for Wolfenstein 2 ( which has released to amazing reviews) I'll wait for bargain bin on Xbox One X and just grab the Switch version when it releases. Way too many games to play now anyways. Gonna be crazy having both DOOM and Wolfsenstein 2 running on a handheld device. Playing at work. Playing at my brothers house. Playing in handheld mode in my recliner with the TV on...
All have sinned and fall short of Gods glory. Wages of sin is death. Romans
God so loved the world He sent His only Son- whoever believes on Him has eternal life. Unless you believe, you will die in your sins. Whoever believes, rivers of living water flow within them. John
@Octane
I'm telling you, man. You'd be surprised. It'd be pretty difficult to do these days with every game release being deluged by fps and resolution talk, but if you knew absolutely nothing about a game and were placed in front of a screen cold, you wouldn't be able to distinguish between 30 and 60 steady fps.
@MarcelRguez
And you keep proving my point. Of COURSE you can see the difference in a scenario like that because you're bopping back and forth between 30 and 60 fps in the different scenes. You either need to go back and closely read what I'm saying or just give it up, because every counter you're presenting is conveniently ignoring what I'm saying.
(Also, frames per second ARE nothing like telling the difference between standard def and hi def... come on, Octane, you're better than that lol that was a hilarious attempt at an analogy)
@rallydefault First thing of all, I wasn't trying to counter your point (otherwise I would have tagged you). I was just talking about Splatoon (not even 2, but the original) being a game you can use to make a similar test to the one in the video I posted. That post was directed at the people saying they can't tell the difference between 30 and 60 even when they're running side-by-side.
If I would sit you down in front of a standard HDTV at typical viewing range with an action game currently out say, Splatoon 2, and asked you if it was running at 30 or 60, you wouldn't know as long as the framerate was steady and you had nothing else running in the room to compare it to or previous knowledge of the game's technical specs.
I did this when I first played NieR Automata and I could tell it runs at 60fps (with occasional dips). Same thing with Yakuza 0. I could also tell that my 360 version of Alien Isolation ran at sub-30fps. People aren't playing their games with a comparison video playing in the background, having knowledge of other games' tech specs as a reference point is more than enough to judge the framerate of a title you've never seen before. Call it making an educated guess if you will, but I don't understand how this is a hard thing to believe.
It's a scientific fact that some human eyes can't distuinguish 30 from 60 frames per second and some eyes can. It's as simple as that. I can see the difference but it wouldn't make a huge difference to me gameplay-wise.
Much more important for a first person shooter is aiming with a mouse, gyro controls or pointer controls. Things that DOOM on Switch doesn't seem to have and holds the game back way more than the framerate.
It's a scientific fact that some human eyes can't distuinguish 30 from 60 frames per second and some eyes can. It's as simple as that.
I noticed that when I was helping somebody edit their film at uni, and he was completely oblivious to a random frame at the end of a shot. I pointed it out to him so that he could remove it, but even upon watching the footage repeatedly (and mind you, this is only 25fps), he was unable to detect it. I think it's quite extraordinary that there are so many differences between us as human beings that we are unfamiliar with or would not consider to be out of the ordinary.
"Gee, that's really persuasive. Do you have any actual points to make other than to essentially say 'me Tarzan, physical bad, digital good'?"
@SKTTR That's one strange way to word that, like saying it's a scientific fact that some human eyes can't distinguish between any given framerate because blind people exist. Some people can't distinguish between framerates, but that doesn't mean they can't perceive it. Distinguishing is nurture, perceiving is nature.
Computer game players have some of the best eyes around. “If you’re working with gamers, you’re working with a really weird population of people who are probably operating close to maximal levels,” says DeLong. That’s because visual perception can be trained, and action games are particularly good at training vision.
“[Games are] unique, one of the only ways to massively increase almost all aspects of your vision, so contrast sensitivity, attention abilities and multiple object tracking,” Adrien Chopin, a post-doc researcher in cognitive sciences, tells me. So good, in fact, that games are being used in visual therapies.
The whole thing is word a read. It even goes into reaction times and the diminishing returns of a higher framerate. On another note, they probably didn't add gyro precisely because it's 30fps. Not really worth it if you ask me.
@sillygostly It's all about fine-tuning your senses. Many of my friends are musically inclined and, while I can play some simple things by ear, it boggles my mind the stuff they point out to me when we have music playing in the background, for example. Reminds me of that one GameXplain video about MK8 skipping a frame. Once you notice it, you can't unsee it.
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