Topic: Anyone Else Concerned with Nintendo's First Party Output Recently?

My gut feeling is that originally they had intended to release new hardware earlier and a lot of what we're seeing now is just the Switch side of that transition. I do still think the new hardware that will release relatively soon is going to be a soft generational transition. It'll still be a "Switch" in other words. But they'll still want content to announce it alongside

In the meantime though they have to keep people engaged so we get this drip feed of content. If I was to take a stab in the dark I'd say there are possibly upto ~5 titles late in development they could announce but aren't because they're holding onto it for new hardware. And no, I don't think the rumoured HD remasters of Metroid or Zelda fit that bill.

Lots to unpack here. Firstly I do agree that anyone saying that Zelda has to launch new hardware is an idiot but, frankly, I don't see anyone saying that. It's not a trend. Quite literally there have only been two Zelda games that "launched" consoles and that was mostly because were both cross-generation games between relatively similar tier hardware

What people are saying, myself included, is that if you are to release new hardware you need some major release to tie to it. Otherwise nobody cares about the new hardware. Not every new hardware release has a meaty game attached to it but the successful ones generally do. Switch and BotW, the Wii and Twilight Princess, N64 and Mario 64, SNES and Super Mario World. Hell, the Switch OLED and Metroid Dread. So it's really just a question of when the new hardware is coming and what game would make sense to tie to it. Nobody here knows of course, we're speculating, we know this. For some reason people get offended by this, I don't get why

What I'm doing is looking at the calendar and seeing the Switch is almost 6 years old. The NES was 7 when it was replaced, SNES was 6, N64 5, GC 5, Wii 6, Wii U 5, GB 9, GBC 3, GBA 3, DS 7, 3DS 6. Doesn't matter how many times people cry "chip shortage" as if they have any idea what it actually means, the Switch is getting old. So either there will be new hardware soon or the Switch will be the only console outside of the original Gameboy to seemingly never get any hardware revisions. I think the former is the safer bet. Most probably we will at least know about it within the next 12 months

Then I look forward in the calendar and ask myself what game already announced coming soon could launch this hardware. And in May next year they're releasing the sequel one of the most successful launch titles of all time. So ****, why not that game then? I mean obviously by that same logic I would have probably been theorising late in the Wii's cycle that a Wii HD would launch with a version of Skyward Sword and been wrong. But I think it's fair to say, that would've been a better move than what actually happened

Also the ideas that BotW is not a "proper" Zelda game for Switch or that every console MUST have it's "own" game from each series? That's, as you put it, wilfully ignorant of the times where that hasn't happened. For a start look at the number of core franchises on Switch that "only" exist as Switch Ports. Or how there was no Metroid or Animal Crossing on Wii U. No Pikmin or Starfox on Wii. No Metroid on the N64. Hell 2D Mario entirely disappeared between '92 and '05. There are no rules that say every console must have it's own version of XXXX

edit: something additional here on the chip shortage. People talk about it as if it's something that it only impacts new hardware and is the only thing in play. Neither of these things are true. Yes it generally impacted new hardware more because the way this works is you need to build up an inventory before you manufacture. So the chip shortage delayed that buildup of components, both old and new. It just impacted the new stuff more because, well, new stuff is new

Older components? They suffer another pressure, one that's existed for as long as tech has been manufactured. Older tech doesn't get cheaper to make over time, older tech just becomes less valuable over time. There's a cost floor to all components, doesn't matter how old it is. Just because the Switch is something like 25x more powerful than the Wii was doesn't mean you could make a Wii now for $10US. Doesn't work like that

Nintendo could right now sell something for the same price as the Switch OLED with a profit margin and have it be a good 3x more powerful. Easily. That's just how tech progresses. Could they sell the Switch OLED for 1/3rd of the price it currently is? No. I'm sure there's some profit margin there but it's not significant. That's why we'll get new hardware. That's why we've always got new hardware

The only thing I concerned was about ARMS sequel.
Even until today, modern consoles still lack of cartoonish boxing games.
I mean why don't like boxing as video games ?
I'm sure there are some audiences have interest with cartoonish boxing games.
It just the developers still lack interest to think about boxing as well known sports in public.

I mean to be fair most of those omissions were from lower selling series, Zelda is one of the bigger sellers so it makes less sense for Zelda to skip (but I also don't think we can count it as "skipping" if it's developed for the Switch and ends up a dual release like BotW was) than IPs like Star Fox, Metroid, or Pikmin. And even taking those smaller IPs into account, the list of IPs that don't have a Switch entry isn't that long unless you go back to some niche IPs from 20+ years ago (mainly just Mario Kart, DK, and Star Fox, and if the rumors are true we'll be able to cross DK off that list by the end of the generation).

@Bolt_Strike
Obviously wasn't an exhaustive list but in any case I think we're on the same page. The "console must have game franchise XXX" thing is kinda BS. That argument is one of those timeless arguments on gaming forums and always just ends up with people making a blanket statement and cherry picking a list using arbitrary rules to make their argument. Eg right now you're saying that the Switch doesn't have it's own Mario Kart despite Mario Kart 8 Deluxe and its DLC. But at the same time arguing that BotW most definitely counts as a Switch game despite it being also being on the Wii U and with no additional content on Switch. Which I'd agree with but it's still an arbitrary line in the sand. Which is where that discussion just ends up going

Like just now. I give examples of Metroid skipping the N64 and Wii U, Animal Crossing skipping the Wii U, Pikmin skipping the Wii. You qualify that statement by saying that those aren't big games or possibly next that the Wii U doesn't count. Or that Pikmin didn't really skip the Wii because it had the NPC games. And you may have a point. But I'd then come back and maybe say that Metroid was one of the "big 3" and the only one not to transition to the N64. And possibly the main reason why Zelda is considered "bigger" is because it made that transition famously well

So yeah, not an argument worth having. But I think we can agree that there is no rule that says every console must have a game from one series or another. Or that it can't have two from the same series. Or that a game only "counts" when it's exclusive to one console generation. It's all semantic BS

The only hard and fast rules are:

• New hardware always comes out
• Games sell hardware so new hardware needs games

Also personally I'm not sure if it's the lack of titles that interest me or just where I'm at with gaming right now. But outside of PC where over half of the games I own live the Switch is the platform where I own the most games. I have something around 30% more games on Switch than I got on the Wii which is the platform I had the most games on before the Switch

And yet despite that I've only brought two games on Switch this year so far. I'm still buying games, just not for the Switch. I just genuinely don't have that much interest in what's coming out for the platform lately. And that's mostly because I come to Nintendo for their first party output. Now I'm definitely picking up Bayonetta 3 and will probably grab Pokemon but outside of that? Probably nothing else for me on Switch this year

I'd say this year for me has been objectively the least I've been interested in Nintendo's platforms, collectively, since 2016. And before that I'd probably have to go back to before I got back into Nintendo on the DS before I found a more dire year than this year. Looking at my backlog in 2016 the only game I got on a Nintendo platform was Twilight Princess HD. It's not that dire, but it's not far off

And yes, I'm sure the hardware does play some part in my apathy towards the Switch right now. As does the expectation of inevitable new hardware potentially screwing over late generation purchases. Although despite how vocal I am on the topic it's a pretty small part. If there was an Astral Chain, Metroid Dread or even Link's Awakening HD tier release out right now I'd be downloading it. But there aren't that many of those lately

@Bolt_Strike Nothing is saying it couldn't, but at the same time I feel like it won't. If they do, this'll end up the first Nintendo console without a Zelda game made specifically for the console.

@Bolt_Strike yeah that was the worst direct ever. I mean it's about time they said something about the new metroid game. It's been 4 years since they started reworking it. I did say in the switch thread that there is no really good AAA Games in switch, maybe dread, fortnite, and the games in the second tier price on eshop has some good games. But other than that,. I mean xbox series S/X have more decent games than switch.

@skywake I guess part of me just hopes we don't get a new console any time soon, since I can't afford to pay tons of money just to play a game as promised.

Quick disclaimer - I am fortunate to have both PS5/Switch, and have been long-term fans of both Sony/Nintendo... and like to think I have a fairly grounded view on both, without resorting to 'fanboy-ism'.

But honestly right now I am slightly disillusioned in both companies, and especially their 1st party output.

My top 3 games this year have all been 3rd party - Elden Ring, TMNT Shredder's Revenge, Monster Hunter Sunbreak.

Nintendo is perhaps a victim of its own success, and I am constantly amazed to see Mario kart 8 (Alongside GTA V!!!) still in the top10 physical games charts week-on-week. I suppose there is no incentive for Nintendo to make a new Mario Kart whilst 8 continues to make money hand-over-fist?!

Leading up until the end of this year, where Switch is concerned, I have Monkey Island preordered and also plan to play Xeno 3.

Tears of the Kingdom will be a must-buy from Day#1 for me, but this seems so far away.

I suppose my biggest gripe with Nintendo is the lack of willingness to give us a new 'proper' Mario game, alongside new titles for many other IPs which could almost now be considered dormant - Starfox/Donkey Kong / F-Zero to name several.

@VoidofLight
You didn't have to buy a Switch to play BotW, you didn't have to buy a Wii to play Twilight Princess. You won't have to buy a new console to play any of the games mentioned in that Direct. Nobody is saying you will. What we're saying is that it makes sense at this stage for new hardware to be very soon and when there is new hardware you need games for it

And if this new hardware is architecturally similar to the point where existing games run "as is" but better? It makes sense for them to use upcoming games to push the new hardware. And if it's not? It makes sense to port these late cycle games, like they did with Twilight Princess and BotW. Either way it makes sense for Tears of the Kingdom to be "on the new hardware". But even so, neither scenario makes it unplayable on Switch

I'd also add that people who wish for no new hardware are, if anything, wishing for a sharper transition. The longer Switch exists as is the less likely the next inevitable piece of hardware will play nicely in the same market. If you want a smooth transition where you can keep playing these new platform games on Switch and delay upgrading? You don't want it to be 8, 9, 10 years between Switch and the next platform. Because the longer the gap between hardware the more likely it'll be a hard transition

If you don't want to be "forced" into buying new hardware just to play some release without notice? You want Switch Pro or Switch 2. I for one wish for a 2024 where I wait for the Nintendo Direct and hope for details on how Metroid Prime 4 runs better on "Switch Pro". Not one where we all get excited because they're porting Breath of the Wild to the "Nintendo Odyssey" or getting around to adding SNES games to something that's no-longer NSO. I want Breath of the Wild running better on new hardware and stuff like the NSO perks running on new hardware to be something that just happens and carries across when I buy "Switch Pro"

@skywake Personally for me, if Tears of the Kingdom were on another console that's more powerful, then I wouldn't want to play it on switch anyways, as I'd be getting an inferior experience. The intended experience will be the experience that's on the next big console, if it's a game meant for that console.

@VoidofLight
I understand the psychology of what you're saying but that doesn't change the fact that what you're saying is quite literally illogical. Lets say I'm a seller of fresh fruit and I put up a sign in my store that in two weeks I'm going to sell fresh, plain strawberries. Then next week comes and I put up another sign saying that I'm also going to also be selling chocolate dipping sauce. "How dare they! Now I have to pay extra to buy chocolate dipping sauce to have the full experience!". But you can still buy the Strawberries as they were, you didn't lose that option

Now what you're actually wishing for in this scenario is that I don't announce the dipping sauce at all. That instead in the week after selling the strawberries I then announce the dipping sauce. A cheese dipping sauce that is completely incompatible with strawberries. Infact I'm currently a fruit seller, I don't really have anything yet that works with this dipping sauce. So now instead of having the option of either strawberries or strawberries with chocolate sauce you instead have strawberries with no sauce which you brought because you had no idea a sauce was coming and a sauce you can buy but isn't really appealing with nothing to dip into it

New hardware is coming, it's an inevitability. It's just a question of how that transition will happen and when. I for one would much rather it be a smooth transition where the Switch as it is remains a viable platform in its own right with new content coming out for it for a couple of years. Then simultaneously a new hardware platform that on day 1 gets the existing Switch library including multiple titles that run better.

So yes and I hope Pikmin 4, Metroid Prime 4, Tears of the Kingdom are on both Switch and the next hardware. Ideally as the same physical game running better but if not then at least as a simultaneously released port. Because new hardware would be the better way to play these games, new hardware will need a reason to exist and I think it would be the wrong move not to release these games so current Switch owners can all play them

@Bolt_Strike I think the pandemic thing is still very much so a valid reasoning behind why this time can feel underwhelming. Games that are releasing now would have likely been starting development in 2020-2021 which was peak pandemic time. And I think we’re going into the final hurrah before the next major console in 2024 or 2025. Everytime the previous console begins to get less and less huge games so that the next console can be the major focus for the larger titles. Even then I feel like next year isn’t concerning or underwhelming at all. With the next major Zelda, Pikmin, Bayonetta, Fire Emblem, Pokémon. All releasing within the next 8 or so months and absolutely no clue what could be coming in the latter half of 2023 it seems like Nintendo is picking up the pace again. I think trying to look at any year of the switch is hard when 2017 was so utterly overwhelming with mainline Mario, Zelda, Xenoblade, Splatoon, and promises for Kirby, Metroid, yoshi, Pokémon, fire emblem, etc.

Of course Nintendo could announce more games and have more stuff out but that’s just not how Nintendo normally does stuff anymore. Just because there isn’t a mainline Mario platformer or new Mario kart doesn’t mean that what is being delivered is underwhelming. So I’m not really concerned. I see why some fans are, a lot of the typical mainstays are not as present in favor for newer franchises that are less broad and typical Nintendo. Nintendo is showing they want to try to broaden some of their more lesser popular franchises and expand which means less Mario and Zelda games every year. Also I think saying TotK is just using BotW engine so it should’ve been done quickly is gonna very quickly be proven wrong. This game is gonna have way more than we think it will or else Nintendo wouldn’t have taken so long and wouldn’t be leaning on it so heavily to close out like 3 or 4 directs now

If I sound aggressive I don’t mean to lol. Just sharing what I see and think

@Ninfan
You said the worst because you only care for shooter games.
I never saw you play other genre games.

@Anti-Matter
To be fair, to you everything that isn't a fairy themed DDR farm simulator is a "shooter game"

@Blooper987 Ehh, most of the larger projects take more than 1 or 2 years to develop, they're closer to 3-5. Most of what we're seeing now was probably started sometime in 2017-2019 (we know that Bayonetta and Pikmin have been in development for 5+ years, TotK was in development as early as 2019 and probably shortly after BotW, Xenoblade Chronicles 3 was stated to have started in 2018). That's what makes this all questionable and why I keep pointing to IPs like 3D Mario and Mario Kart, 2017 was the last year that we had a major release in those franchises whereas many other IPs (including IPs that had games release in the same year) have gotten a game or two in that span so you really have to wonder just what those teams have been doing for the last 5 years.

Honestly, if you look at the games we did get instead of the games we didn't get, you'd have to admit that the Switch is one of the most stacked consoles Nintendo has ever made.

And its future is looking very bright to me.

Everyone needs to calm down about pikmin 4. The truth is that:

• Miyomotos original vision included black pikmin, it was totally complete before NoA saw a near complete version of the game for the first time and pointed out the optics of a white character leading a long line of happily singing black “servants” were terrible. It got sent back. This created a huge delay because Nintendo had hard coded the pikmin colours.
• the reworked game is now complete and ready to show but - unfortunately and by pure coincidence - the storyline involves the pikmin queen suddenly and unexpectedly dying (at the age of 286 after a long illness) and the Pikmin kingdom then being invaded by bugs who are clearly thinly veiled Russian stereotypes. This created a number of problems for Nintendo but they will be willing to show and release the game soon once irl death by old age and war have been completely eliminated.

@skywake Truth sadly

I'm pretty sure Nintendo knows what they're doing better than anyone here so I'm not concerned. I'm yet to run out of things to play.