Topic: Anyone Else Concerned with Nintendo's First Party Output Recently?

I'm not concerned, but I do agree its very weird. Like...what are some of these developers doing right now? It could be any number of things, but its hard to say because outside of one rumor about the 3D Mario team, there's not been a ton to even go off of.

I double checked this recently and IIRC, the Arms directors (from the Mario Kart side of Nintendo) have not been in the credits for any game after Arms.

I mean it could be like Kirby. There was no major Kirby game (outside of a f2p follow up to a 3ds download only game) for 4 years, and now we're gonna get a 3rd Kirby game in one year. All their development came together all at once (probably deliberately based on the anniversary and maintaining hype from the 3D Kirby game)

Hmm, @Bolt_Strike .... I basically keep my Switch for games I can't get on Steam & yet there's plenty coming up for Switch that I'm getting
It certainly seems likely that some of the recently announced games might well have been finished months ago but there's always plenty of possible reasons for 'delays', as well
Perhaps they'd be better off telling us about them instead of being so secretive?

Well with the rumors for the most part, just don't put stock into those. They're nothing but heresy made by the people who chase after clout, with only a few ever actually ending up actualized.

As for Nintendo themselves, I feel like the first party stuff has always been awful on Switch. Not because they aren't putting out big games, but the way they've been handling their games. It feels like ever since the system started to do well, they just grew complacent with their titles. A ton of the games they release have released completely unfinished, with them updating the content in later, touting the "free content updates" as a huge complementary feature to keep the game living longer, but in reality it just kind of sucks the life out of the game at launch. They tried it with all the Mario sports games, only for them to be horrid. Switch Sports was pretty much confirmed to be unfinished by the delay of Golf, and New Horizons was missing series staples at launch.

To me, the big games that were singleplayer on Switch have also felt quite soulless, with some exceptions here and there. Mario Odyssey feels wrong to me. It feels like something's incredibly off when I play it, but I can't put my finger onto why. I have a theory it could be how the kingdoms are smaller, but I'm unsure. Animal Crossing was a massive disappointment. BotW doesn't really constitute as a switch game for me, since it was originally made with the Wii U in mind, but changed a bit towards the end of development in order to account for the Switch.

However, when it comes to the stuff you bring up, I don't think it's as really cut and dry as you make it. For example, with the Mario games, we have no idea what's in the works. We're probably most likely not going to receive an Odyssey 2, but rather a new game entirely, and perhaps even for a new console. If it's in the works right now or not is up for debate.

As for Zelda, the whole reason it pretty much got delayed was most likely the Pandemic. It hit Japan pretty hard, especially because they don't really do the "work from home" thing that America does, at least until the Pandemic happened. Not to mention they went under lockdown multiple times through-out 2020 and early 2021.

Metroid is just in dev hell, and prime trilogy isn't a confirmed thing. Prime Trilogy is pretty much just something leakers spout as "totally real and happening" every year, much like Windwaker HD and Twilight Princess HD.

While we don't know the circumstances on Pikmin 4, my guess is that it was either put on hold due to Miyamoto being directly connected to series and taking a bit of a break from game dev to work on other dealings, scrapped and redone from the ground up because they weren't happy with how the game was turning out (much like metroid prime 4, but not announced to the public like that was), or Miyamoto was referring to "Hey! Pikmin"/never said what we thought he said, and it was just a mistranslation.

As for Mario Kart, it's probably a case of 8 Deluxe selling well that they don't really need to pump out a new game. They can just lazily add new courses to fluff up their Switch Online Expansion Pass, whilst waiting to release their next game on a new console whenever that ends up happening.

@Bolt_Strike To me there seems an obvious omission from this thread so far, and that's the suggestion that these major IPs are being lined up for a new hardware launch. That's why they've hardly shown anything of Tears of The Kingdom, why there's not been a new Mario game since MM2, and why Metroid Prime continues to elude us.

I've never been particularly convinced by the idea of new hardware in 2023, but so much is beginning to point that way that I wouldn't be at all surprised now.

@gcunit

I already covered that.

Something I did forget to mention in that regard though, is how weird they've been about some of the IPs they've chosen to release and some of them they haven't yet revealed. I mean Mario Kart is very clearly being saved for next gen and Mario might be too, but they were very eager to release Splatoon 3 this year when it felt so similar to the original that some questioned why they even bothered releasing it this gen and TotK is on its way before new hardware. They've had no issue releasing some major IPs during what some expect to be the Switch's twilight years to the point where you have to wonder if they're really releasing new hardware soon or not (my prediction, I think it's 2024, I don't think they're releasing games in 2023 because it still seems like the Switch is being supported based on what we know of next year, but it does feel like they might be winding down).

Side note, I was going to mention 2D Mario as well, but with us getting Mario Maker 2 and NSMBUD a few years ago, we're not really as hurting for 2D Mario as some of the other IPs. Either way, I do think 2D Mario is one of the IPs being saved for next gen, especially if it's going to be the bold new era for 2D Mario everyone expects instead of NSMB5 or MM3. A game like that makes for a perfect launch title.

@VoidOfLight Nah, I don't buy that Odyssey 2 isn't in development. They'd make a sequel if they think it would sell well and if they have enough leftover ideas for a new game. I think they've checked both of those boxes. Odyssey is easily the best selling 3D Mario game, and there are so many enemies and level ideas they could come up with for a second Odyssey game. Plus they went for a BotW sequel and BotW and Odyssey are both 1a and 1b of the Switch's 2017 lineup and maybe the Switch's lineup overall. I don't think their minds are quite on next gen Mario yet. They've touched on it with Bowser's Fury, but I think they still want to do more with Odyssey on the Switch first before they do a full game with what they learned in Bowser's Fury.

Also the quality of the first party games is subjective, this is more about the quantity and scale of their first party output. Going from having big game after big game in 2017-2019 and then having little to nothing in 2020-2022 raises an eyebrow.

@Bolt_Strike The thing is, if they were making an Odyssey 2, it would have been revealed by now and probably would have been released. However, it hasn't been revealed, and it's been a long amount of time since Odyssey, making me think they're most likely not making a sequel.

Also, BotW 2 being on switch instead of new hardware makes sense when you consider that the Switch doesn't have it's own Zelda yet. BotW doesn't count because it's technically a Wii U game. It was made for the Wii U in mind, but brought to switch because they were jumping a sinking ship. We haven't had a proper Zelda game that takes full advantage of the switch as a console, and TotK is going to most likely be that game. It's also important to note that not all Zelda titles are launch titles for a new console. Majora's Mask, A Link Between Worlds, Triforce Heroes, the Four Swords games, and Spirit Tracks, and Skyward Sword weren't made for the launch of their systems. There's only ever been two Zelda titles that have launched on two systems at the same time as well. Twilight Princess and BotW.

It could be, better, but who knows, maybe next year will be different.

Next year will have Pikmin. I'm happy.

Just thinking out aloud, but if we are about to go into a global recession then Nintendo selling a cheap console and sitting on a bunch of games is probably the best position they can be in to weather it. Certainly a difficult period to launch a new console and yet another headache for the President to nurse. The business side of Nintendo were so successful during the 'challenging times.' They know what they are doing and certainly thinking more long term than the fans are. They probably have more of an idea of the state of the economy at the moment. And as for the pandemic being behind us, I almost lost my mum to Covid last month. It most certainly hasn't gone away. And Nintendo acknowledge it at the start of the Directs. If they are choosing quality of life over profits at the moment, I respect that. But seriously, fans are getting more cynical than corporations! If it makes sense it will make money, fans go crazy when it doesn't happen. Like that's all that matters. Youtube and twitter can have a rather degenerate level of thinking. Even a sign of respect for delaying the UK Direct doesn't make sense to them...presumably because they don't know what respect means. Again, they knew what they were doing with that.

Not concerned at all, there's games and DLC to look forward to and that's enough for me.

From a more analytical side, you have to be careful with timing of stuff to make sure both that games get a fair chance of success and also about the future. I gave the example in the Direct thread that if Prime remaster(s) were announced in the September Direct for this holiday then Bayonetta 3 sales would suffer. By not mentioning them (if they're real) until November at the earliest you get the best of both outcomes, Bayonetta 3 is given the best chance for good initial sales while the remaster(s) eventually happen and start the hype cycle for Prime 4.

You also have the situation of what happened in 2012-2013 for Wii U where because the Wii got the big system sellers late in its lifespan (e.g. Mario Galaxy 2, Skyward Sword), the early Wii U era was limited. Nintendo won't want a repeat of that so if new hardware is inbound anytime soon they will stockpile stuff like the next mainline Mario game, the next Mario Kart game, etc. to guarantee a 2017-esque lineup.

Finally there's the concept of "Do you need a new game when you can keep supporting the old one?" with more content. With Mario Kart, I think the current setup is the best option where Mario Kart 8 (a 2014 game) is gradually being turned into Mario Kart Ultimate. I'd much rather have 1 game with 96 tracks then 2 games with 48 tracks each for example. Bring on Booster Course Pass 2 launching early 2024.

If I was to guess when new hardware was coming I'd say May 12th 2023 to mirror the Switch launch setup. If it happens it happens, if it doesn't it doesn't. That's 8 months away anyway and there's a load of stuff to look forward to before then.

We aren't getting a new console next year. Nintendo would be foolish to do so, given that there's hardware shortages which are projected to keep going until 2025 I'm pretty sure. I don't get why so many people get so hung up on "ZELDA MUST LAUNCH BESIDE A NEW CONSOLE!" Are you guys willfully ignoring the many Zelda games that didn't launch with a new console? Or the fact that the switch has yet to have a proper Zelda made for it?

@voidoflight
I think to further your stance that people often forget, the Switch Consoles line up we currently have is still selling like crazy. Nintendo is a business first and foremost and what business sense does it make to create an entirely new higher powered Switch when you don't need to.

As far as their first party line up, we just got Splatoon 3, and they are working on Breath of the Wild 2, those are both very big games. Sorry for those of you who don't have a deep pond of interests in games and only look surface deep for the 1st party titles, life must be very boring for you.

I'm not in the least bit worried about Nintendo EPD's (lack of ) output. Much of their work with partner and subsidiary studios (Monolith, HAL, Intelligent Systems, Platinum, etc.) has been excellent of late and - combined with the success of the Switch also bringing a wealth of third party games - the pressure is off.

The pressure being off, they can afford to go full Miyamoto and hold games back until they're truly honed, or keep them going with far more post launch support than they'd have had in previous generations. EPD Group 4 will still churn out a lot of experimental games that can be very hit and miss, but they're the exception.

I'd imagine that this could be very frustrating if you're waiting for a specific game, particularly something from a less traveled franchise, but it's not like we've got a shortage of good games to play, at least.

This

I agree. I think Mario might be the launch game if a new Switch were to ever happen, and right now there is still a chip shortage so it would be kinda dumb for Nintendo to make a new console and maybe not be able to ship to high demand.

@VoidofLight Nothing says that TotK couldn't be a dual release like BotW, that would still satisfy it being a Switch developed release. In fact I could easily see the next gen console getting a 2-3 year cross gen period to ease people in instead of dropping the Switch and its userbase all at once (they even did that with the 3DS -> Switch transition to a lesser extent).

@steventonysmith They can't be so shortsighted, especially when they're dealing with projects that are in development for 3-5 years. You don't know for sure where you'll be when those 3-5 years are up. Nintendo is selling well now, but the momentum seems to be slowing and when the PS5 and XBSX start taking off, the Switch is going to be left behind. That's why they need to be thinking about next gen about now. It'd be foolhardy for them to expect the Switch to survive for more than about 2-3 more years when the competition is basically 2 hardware gens ahead of them.

@Bolt_Strike
Can you honestly find the PS5 in any random store? They are not taking off yet. Also Nintendo is making a successor, I'm not suggesting they are not, but from the windfall of money the Switch has made them they don't have to rush out a successor as quickly as you think they do.

Well then if the chip shortage is hampering new consoles for as long as you think it is, then the game drought makes even less sense. From the consumer side of things (I know this isn't the truth and they're working on things behind the scenes that they aren't ready to show, but as far as what the public has been shown) it really feels like Nintendo's been twiddling their thumbs the last 2 years. They've had little to nothing to show in all of that time and there's multiple games you can look at and think they should be ready that aren't. Especially from some of the IPs in that blowout 2017 lineup, they should be ready for sequels about now (really under normal circumstances they should've been ready in 2020 but then pandemic so we should've seen them in 2021/2022).

EDIT: Actually @Matt_Barber makes a good point, most of my complaints here are with EPD's output specifically and not Nintendo as a whole. The second party studios (Monolith, IS, Game Freak, HAL, Camelot, etc.) have all been producing a relatively similar output but EPD has been near radio silent compared to before the pandemic and that's where the issue is. However, I can't quite forgive them on this one because they have new hardware to compete with and most of their biggest sellers are EPD franchises so I don't agree that the pressure's off. It's not a matter of waiting for a "less traveled" franchise, it's the opposite, the less traveled franchises have been getting more attention and it feels like they have their priorities backwards.