Topic: Nintendo Switch 2

System Shock remake is out next week. And it has gyro aiming, and... also mouse aiming

This is a big deal. When Bioshock 1, 2 and Infinite released I played the heck out of them, but no gyro aiming ultimately led me to drop them. System Shock provides a similar experience, BUT, it's a really old game... until now, that is.

I refrained from purchasing the System Shock 1 and 2 remasters on Switch because I knew they were getting full remakes that were releasing on NSW2. At least, I'm pretty sure the second will be remade also. They've hinted at it, suggesting sales of the first will determine whether they do the second also.

And the first game's remake is right around the corner. Think a Bioshock-style game with Metroid Prime Remastered quality, and actually has proper gyro/mouse aiming.

That's day one. Question I have is, has anyone played the remaster of System Shock 2? Is it worth getting, or better to hold off for a likely remake? Does it have gyro, and is it getting a NSW2 version? Does it even need a NSW2 version? If it's 1080p 60fps and gyro aiming, I can live with that.

BTW, taking a momentary break from Metroid Prime 4, which I'm near the end and about to beat the game, to check out Skyrim NSW2 Edition. You haven't really christened in your console until you've played the latest Skyrim port on it. Everyone knows that. 😀

@JaxonH
I'll take your word for it then. Unless i can get Super Mario Party Jamboree(NS2) for half the price used with a physical copy. I'm itching to test out those mouse based mini-games, because there just isn't much else on NS2 outside of Welcome Tour that makes use of them in weird fun n' whacky ways that drift outside your typical 3rd or first person titles that just makes use of standard mouse aiming which we're all familiar with, besides the inclusion of HD Rumble 2 & Gyro.

@WaveBoy
I mean, if you're that interested then maybe it would be worthwhile for you. I certainly don't think it would be unreasonable to upgrade for $20 if you already own the game.

There just isn't that many new mini-gamea in the Bowser's TV mode, and not all of them even use the mouse. Cause some will instead rely on the camera or your voice.

The thing is, though, that the people upset about "forced diversity" spew their hatred and review-bomb sites even with games that have no specific "pro" or "anti" message. Queer people are significant minority in the world, women consist half of humanity, and the majority of people on this planet are not white. Having a game whose characters simply reflect these facts of life is not propaganda for anything, just like the Mario games are not propaganda for white power or heterosexuality, even though all the main human characters in them are white, and Mario is in love with Princess Peach. But for these people, if a game is not only for and about straight white men, somehow that's a political statement that needs to be suppressed. As if straight white men are the only group of people who play video games, and is if those gamers who are straight white men couldn't identify with a player character who's different from them.

@Polvasti The problem is that it's acceptable to say you don't want a <majority> protagonist in a game, but it's not OK to say you don't want a <minority> one. This is why the backlash is so extreme in many cases, because you're viewing this from the wrong angle. Any one person is only themselves — it doesn't matter whether they're part of a majority globally or not. Everyone will have different preferences in representation. Saying "your representation is worth less than mine because your genetics make you part of a majority" is just as bad, because that individual didn't choose their skin color, or gender, or sexuality any more than any other minority person did. And thus you radicalise them when you tell them to shut up and not share their opinions because they were born with certain traits they didn't choose.

Pretending like -isms don't exist against those in majorities leads to disaster for everyone. Because every single person is an individual.

@OmnitronVariant
Wow. Very well put, and managed to communicate it both delicately and respectfully.

Seems many don't understand that when you force things down others throats, insult them if they disagree and tell them to be quiet because of immutable characteristics, you galvanize opinion against you even further. That's never been a winning strategy if you want empathy and people to be won over to your side. And one day, I suspect, people will realize they damage their own cause with such tactics.

It's 2025. People are over being intimidated into aligning their opinions with others by such means. If you want others to take your side, you need to learn how to be persuasive. And those old hand tactics of the 2010's ain't it.

@JaxonH
I think what I wonder many times is: What exactly do you mean by "force things down others' throats"?

Like, if a character in a game is gay, and that comes up a few times during the plot, when does it become "forced" rather than... just part of the plot?

@rallydefault
No, I wouldn't, unless there was evidence of intent. It's not always clear when something is or isn't being included for reasons of legitimate artistic choice vs as propaganda to further an agenda. When I hear games feature [insert] parades, personally, I struggle to believe that is included for any other reason than propaganda. When Nexus Mods bans any mods removing a certain flag, I struggle to believe that's for any other reason than to push agenda and suppress those opposing it. Not saying you should feel that way too, just giving my perspective.

But I'm very reluctant to say everything is included for nebulous reasons. Not every black character is to check a box, for example. And some get so hypersensitive about the issue they make relentless accusations without any nuance or discernment.

But that doesn't mean it's never done with an agenda, and many take issue when they feel they are being propagandized. That's when I would say things are being shoved down people's throats. Again, that doesn't mean anytime a box is checked that's what's happening, or anytime an [insert] character is included that's what's happening. Nobody's saying that. At least, I'm not saying that. Which is why I answered your question with a "no". Simple inclusion doesn't qualify in my book. But there are legitimate times people feel it's happening. And I don't think I'm alone in saying the natural reaction is to reject that. It's hard to say for sure when it is or isn't happening, but I evaluate each game in context and make a judgement call based on my intuition and experience.

I can't definitively draw a line where I say, I think everything on this side is agenda and everything on that side is artistic choice- all I can say is there have been some games where I felt it was not artistic choice. Does that mean it's every time? No. Does that mean it's every game? No. But, it is some times. It is some games. And every person will see things differently- there may be something one person feels is agenda while another person doesn't. I don't know where that line should be drawn, but I think most agree the line does, at the very least, exist.

The number of games I'd definitively place in that category are actually extremely few, relatively speaking, but as Omni mentioned, the aggressive tendency of some to denigrate anyone voicing concern has radicalized many, and the end result is what we have today, where every game gets accused of being "woke" (I even saw someone accuse Metroid of this, I kid you not). Every game becomes contentious. Every [insert] character is assumed to be a result of nefarious intent. And that's what the original poster was complaining about, and look... I get it. But I don't think everyone who opposes agenda is like that. I'm not like that, and I oppose agenda. And I think you oppose it too. I mean, we might disagree on when we feel it's happening, but I don't think anyone likes feeling indoctrinated. And it could be about anything. Doesn't always have to be regarding orientation, race, gender, etc. Could be about specific economic systems, for example. Could be anything.

But it takes wisdom to discern when it is and isn't happening. And I'll be the first to admit, many lack that wisdom. And even when one does suspect it's happening, often times the extreme response just radicalizes people the other way. Gamers gotta start learning to voice their issues in a respectful, thoughtful manner and stop overreacting. I grow less patient by the day for people who overreact.

I hope that answers your question and provides clarity. That was a very long, thorough response but I feel such complex issues deserve more than just a hot Twitter take.

On one hand, most of the complaints about "woke" things I see online is just people letting their inner ugliness out because, like in 2017, it's more socially acceptable since the U.S. election to openly be a terrible person, and this effect ripples out worldwide thanks to the internet.

On the other hand... some material is clearly written in such a way that the writer's overt progressive ideology overrides artistic intent, and it particularly went a bit out of control starting in the mid-to-late 2010s. It's a hard thing to prove, definitively, because gay/non-white/trans/etc. characters have just as much right to be in media as more heteronormative ones. All I'll say is that, like pornography, 'you know it when you see it.'

A good example is that recent Dragon Age game. It's a world of swords and sorcery and dragons, but they introduce really cringy modern day gender identity stuff into it. Like a character whining about being non-binary. Or pretty much the entirety of that Doctor Who season with Jodie Whittaker, where it felt like a fun adventure show had been hijacked and repurposed for soulless social propaganda. Actually, the show still had that problem with Ncuti Gatwa's doctor as well, even though I really liked the energy of the actor himself.

There's countless examples, really. And I do agree that stuff like this is making enemies in nerd/geek spaces who might have otherwise been sympathetic, but are irritated at their favorite things being hijacked, repurposed, and eventually abandoned once the real fans are fully alienated by the changes and leave.

@Polvasti There are some varied reactions to your last message, but I just wanted to say, well said. Being more representative of the real world is not some conspiracy, it's just a reasonable thing to do if devs or companies choose to. The majority always likes to assume mentioning the minority is some bizarre political agenda but they somehow never acknowledge that perhaps not mentioning these same groups is just as much of a political statement. And in both cases, it's often just a choice; nothing inherently political about it.

Granted, as you said, some of these under-represented-in-video-game groups are actually the majority in numbers if not in power, so it's especially silly to say a game shouldn't try to reach out to these huge player bases. But even if a group is 'only' 5 or 10% of the real world population ... it's not true to say they are being artificially over-represented unless they are more than 5 or 10 percent of video game characters overall. They're simply being ... represented. Almost certainly still under-represented on average if not always in each individual game.

People like to associate themselves with the main character, but what's the harm in not always getting to be the main character and letting some other groups have that pleasure. Worst case, you can just not play a game; no review bombing required.

@JaxonH
Yea, I think “wisdom” is a good word to apply here. Unfortunately, that’s exactly what is lacking in click-bait reactionary takes on this stuff.

@Ralizah
I think the “ideology over artistry” is also a good point.

So you guys think it becomes detrimental to the art form as a whole if this sort of thing continues to happen? Like, people should be able to say what they want, but we aren’t forced to buy it. But its presence in the media form can have a bad effect overall?

Over the years, more and more I strive to steer my views to the center, and I typically know when I'm on the right track when neither extreme on any given issue jumps to claim me as their own. When I ruffle feathers on both sides, at least a little bit, that's when I know I'm in a pretty good place.

Took me quite a while and a good bit of life experience to moderate my positions and realize just how easy it is to fall into an ideological trap. And even though I'm not perfect, I now take an approach of not marrying myself to any specific opinion, and try to always maintain a stance of being open to being persuaded otherwise if a convincing argument were presented.

Does anyone want to play some Split Fiction with me over GameChat? I own the game. You can download the friend's pass and hop online with me for free. Let me know- I can't play it solo, and my brother is always working.

When that is an issue, I feel like that just means bad writing/design. You can have both. Of course 'money over artistry' is the much more common problem in games.

Yeah I think this is higher issues than anything else tbqh. People attribute it to choking the agenda in or whatever, but I think it's just really a skill issue than anything else on the developers or whoever is making it than anything else.

(also I want to give an example that hopefully won't ruffle too many people's feathers, but make you think a bit... but when you see a story clumsily pushing a hetero romance, do you say it's a "hetero agenda", or do you say "that's bad writing"? Maybe think on why you think it's the latter instead of the former. Because it feels like a lot of people here is attributing the whole "agenda" thing to "omg the woke is pushing it" and not "they are a result of bad writing")

I didn't write it on previous post since I forgot, but like, I think people just need to remember that you don't know the artistic intent, or whether it's being pushed by the executives, or whatever. Even if they DID have an interview, you don't really know what's in their mind (unless you see their constant action etc, which is often obvious but sometimes you have to dig into).

So in a lot of ways, maybe judge things not by whatever perceived agenda you think the many, many people working on a game, or media is, but by the merit the media has? Don't just consume whatever is being shoveled out at you, whether it's news or comments or opinions, but research and verify too, especially considering the massive misinformation campaign that often happens (Like, this is a benign example, but I have seen people easily say that Game Key Card forces you to play online and you can't play offline at all. Like, this is something you can easily verify and yet people still spread this misinfo)

@FishyS
I think that’s what I’m trying to say: people get upset because they perceive the “agenda” item (whatever it may be) automatically makes the artistry bad or stifled.

I think a lot of assumptions are being made, regardless. But I guess that’s what the internet is for (lol).

@darkfenrir
Very true. But I would just caution that “doing your own research” has become quite the catch-all, at least here in the U.S. I think the statement needs a healthy dose of that “wisdom” mentioned earlier.

@rallydefault that is true. But definitely don't use chatgpt or its ilk though if possible... If you must use it, check the sources and links and not what they spout.

The online scape of now tbh feels so different than even just 5 years ago, I don't really like it

There is nothing wrong with diverse representation in video games. I think its unfortunate that we have a society that politicizes people based on their race, gender, and sexual orientation, but that's sadly how it is. People are mistaken when they say that games with diverse representation place ideology, politics, and agenda over artistic intent, as art is inherently political (e.g. Star Wars opposes imperialism, Pokemon rejects suburbanization, Lord of the Rings supports environmentalism, et cetera. Politics in art is not a problem and never has been.

The crux of the matter lies in the quality of implementation. Any thematic element in a work of art takes skill to weave into the story in a way that feels natural, especially so in a pre-existing series. A lot of people complaining about woke media probably don't want to be discriminatory. Rather, they just don't want to see familiar media change (much in the same way as people resent change in other capacities, like the supposed loss of immersion in Metroid Prime 4, for instance), and poorly implemented political themes can often feel like a substantial change.

Some opportunistic and bigoted grifters have taken advantage of this and created a mass hysteria suggesting that the problem lies in diversity in art, all in the effort of driving up the ad revenue on their cheap videos. I myself have previously fallen victim to this crowd on the internet, but as I learned more in school, I shed those foolish beliefs.

I hope we can all learn to be better at interpreting art and criticizing the true flaws in it.

Well, if anyone decides they want to play some Split Fiction later just let me know. The offer remains open. And it's a terrific game. Perfect chance to experience it free of charge.