@Tyranexx NSMB on the DS was awesome when I first played it, and I still have a soft spot for it. When it came out, it had been years since we got a new 2D Mario game. Its level design was solid and I even liked the boss battles - they were quite different from the Koopalings in the later games. I've played all the NSMB games and I can definitely tell you that NSMB2 is...not that great. I like the coin idea, but I wish they did more with it. (Like unlocking secret levels, new game plus, new characters, etc.) There are some good levels here and there, and Coin Rush mode is pretty fun in short bursts, but overall it's the weakest Mario platformer. Also, for a game that encourages players to get a million coins, it sure has a lousy "reward" for doing just that. So you're not missing out on much by skipping it.
Thanks! I HAD to get the amiibos, lol. Not only do I love Mario, but I love cats, too. That's just one reason why SM3DW is one of my favorite Mario games.
"Give yourself the gift of being joyfully you."
Playing: Disney Dreamlight Valley
Ask if you want to be Switch friends with me, but I'd like to know you first. Thanks! ❤️
@Tyranexx Oh, God. Please don't. You'll hate me forever. Forget that I ever mentioned it. I did because it was basically the epitomy of what I had to deal with over there, seeing as the sitcom Alf was very popular back in the day, both in the Netherlands and Germany. There's plenty of other series or movies I could have chosen, but that was the only one that was on almost every day.
And yes, German beer is darn good. A lot of countries around my current place of residence have good beer: Germany, Belgium, Denmark and of course the UK.
P.S.
Keep reading, because what comes next might also trigger you into listing it as your next must-watch anime...
@TheJGG Well, you'll be happy to know that I watched "Your Name" this afternoon. I initially intended to watch part of it, and then get on with my day, but once I got into the story, I couldn't stop watching, and after I watched it, I ordered the Blu-ray from my local online web shop, so that oughta tell you enough. Thanks for the recommendation. I can't believe I missed this, especially what with all the accolades this movie has received from various media.
My conclusion is that it's really a must-have for anime lovers. Absolutely amazing art style and coloring. Those backdrops are simply gorgeous, almost every frame is a painting in and of itself.
And what I always appreciate about a lot of the more A-list anime, is that even though they do use 3D computer-aided animation sometimes, the combination always feels natural, and is never jarring. Compare that to a lot of western released material, which just doesn't come close. And there's a lot of stuff that I like to watch, although with Western releases, it's mostly super hero related.
But even in those, the quality is SO much lower, that I always wonder why that is, because it could add so much more to the experience. I suppose Western animators have simply fully embraced computer generated animation instead of traditional 2D, and as such, those kinds of animations do get better each year, but Western 2D animation is hopelessly outdated, especially when compared to the visual mastery of Studio Ghibli.
I watched the original Japanese version, by the way, with English subs. For my first run, I wouldn't want to spoil the experience by immediately going for the dubbed version. I always go for the original first, except with Princess Mononoke, but that was basically out of my control, because the English language version was the only one that was released in cinemas over here.
The movie was longer than you said, though: even without the end credits rolling, it was still well over 100 minutes in total, so either you watched a cut version, or you made a mistake there. But ultimately, I didn't mind. We're in lock down anyways, so it's not like I had anywhere to go, and I'd already done all my grocery shopping yesterday, so I'm good for the weekend and the week to come...
DISCLAIMER: readers other than TheJGG, don't click on the spoilers if you still want to watch this movie
What I liked about it was the build up, and the unfolding of the story. But even though I liked the overall movie very much, I was semi-annoyed by the ending, which left me feeling slightly deflated.
I mean going through all this trouble and stress to get to each other, across time and regions, only to end on a rather cool and reserved "hey, I thought I recognized you". At the very least, I'd expect a passionate embrace or something.
That's SO typically Japanese: on the one hand, you have the most sadistic or sexist stuff coming out in anime, and even in movies like "Your Name" there's the almost mandatory fan service element, such as the odd boob grab and so on, but in stories that are more realistic, just like in their daily lives, the Japanese are always so demure, shy or reserved in their emotions. Almost distant, if you will. At least in every day life.
I always wonder what that is all about. Perhaps we as Westerners will never understand, especially because at the same time, so much what comes out of Japan is so not done in our eyes, such as adoration of younger girls, and the aforementioned sadism and sexism, It's a VERY weird juxtaposition, at least in (most) Western eyes.
Perhaps I should tag @Heavyarms55 in here to take a peek at the spoilered part of my comment, because as our resident experience expert, where Japanese society is concerned, he might be able to shed some light on my musings.
Anyways, I'll just put up a trailer of "Your Name" for anyone who's interest has been piqued by the mention of this simply wonderful anime movie.
P.S.
The art style and coloring kind of reminded me of another masterpiece that I simply MUST recommend to you. It's called "5 Centimeters Per Second", and it's in a similar vein to "Your Name".
Here's a trailer:
@Anti-Matter Yep, I think Star Fox Adventures will suit my tastes more overall. It originally was a standalone game unrelated to the Star Fox series; its working title was Dinosaur Planet before it was converted to a Star Fox game, with a different playable character. It was a GameCube game, and those usually aren't cheap these days. Plus I don't currently have a means to play GameCube titles.
@MarioLover92 I remember having a REALLY fun time with NSMB. I loved the power-ups, levels, and the tight platforming! Many of the mini-games were fun too. I had played Super Mario 3D Land a year or so before playing it, but having a 2D Mario platformer on the go was a novelty; I missed out on a lot of the handheld Mario games before that point. I didn't touch the Super Mario Land series until it rolled onto the 3DS VC, though I do recall playing one of the Wario Land titles on the bus for some kid one time (don't recall which one it was). I also think I've played some of Super Mario Bros. Deluxe, but I don't remember where. I just know I didn't own it lol. The only problem with the mini-games is that some were also used for Super Mario 64 DS (Which I know actually came first, but I played them out of order), and I believe they were one of the reasons why I wore out on the game quickly.
NSMB 2 always felt a bit gimmicky to me; the only reason I asked for it was because I was a poor college student at the time and wanted something new to play without paying for it. XD Sounds like they didn't even use the coin gimmick to its full potential.
Ah, so we have something else in common! I too like felines.
@ThanosReXXX Duly noted on German-speaking Alf. I'll save my eyes and ears.
Excellent beer in your parts, you say? It's possible I just haven't tried the right kind of beer. I've always been more of a wine and fruity drinks type of person. I've tried some of the hard stuff too, but a little of it straight goes a LONG way....Ick.
On Your Name: Wow, definitely an intriguing trailer! Something else I need to pencil in on my lengthy watch list, it seems.
@Tyranexx
Wow, never knew if Starfox Adventures was a Dinosaur Planet by Rare. 😮
That's explaining the drastic change of gameplay style from on rails shooter to 3D Adventure games.
@Tyranexx Yeah between the New Year's shiny Magikarp event in 2019/20 in SW/SH and the community day I don't need any more golden fish. XD (did I ever mention on here what I did that night?)
But hey, at least it's trade fodder right? I got another shiny jigglypuff at random yesterday. I never say no to a shiny but... There are quite few others I'd like before a 3rd green eye'd Jiggly... trade fodder for me!
Back on retro consoles. I actually have a Gamecube still hooked up, and a few different ways to play classic GBA and N64 titles. But none would be as ideal as having the titles on Switch! Something that, right after they announced the Switch, I was clamoring for! And something I really legitimately did expect to happen. Legacy content support on Switch - at least for the systems I feel nostalgic for - is highly lacking...
@ThanosReXXX So to start with, I agree that "Your Name" is an absolutely spectacular anime film. One of the best stand alone anime movies around easily.
So to start with, you point out as your put it the "sadistic or sexist" stuff sometimes seen in anime, and also Japanese people being "demure, shy or reserved in their emotions" or "almost distant". The simple thing is this, anime isn't a genre, it's a medium. Calling anime a genre would be like calling prose a genre. It's just far too broad. So you'll get your ecchi (pervy) content, you'll get your action stories, your romantic comedies and sci-fi etc etc... any of that can be anime. I've seen historical fiction anime and even read educational manga. I once came across a children's manga of the Bible in a Japanese hotel. It was kind of adorable and creepy at the same time and I still kinda want an anime adaptation. XD
And the nature of anime, being animated in a style that generally does not try for photo realism, gives the freedom for authors to be more extravagant or ridiculous. The so-called uncanny valley is much less of a problem in anime.
Back on point, it's less that Japanese people are shy or distant, but, generally speaking, private and more serious about relationships. In my time in Japan, I knew of no one who had flings or casual relationships. (I'm sure if happens but not remotely like I've seen in the US! Hell my cousin is only 2 years older than me an on her second baby daddy!) But people do show that sort of affection and when they do, socially speaking, it means they are much more serious about each other. And behaving that way when you aren't serious about the other person I think is comparatively more rude and hurtful that most people in the west see it. And they are more private. Those moments are important and they are theirs. They aren't for other people to gawk at.
Overall though, I was surprised that "Your Name" did as well as it did outside of Japan, because it is a very Japanese story. There's a good bit in that movie that I imagine went over a lot of people's heads outside of Japan. I'm sure I missed some stuff too, even having lived there. Because I wasn't raised there.
Nintendo Switch FC: 4867-2891-2493
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@ThanosReXXX First, I'm glad you took my word on just how good that movie was. And don't feel bad about missing this movie for over four years, I was prone to that exact same mistake. Either way it's good we both saw this movie at all, instead of going on without it. Might sound a little cliché but I feel like Your Name has somewhat changed my outlook on... well, everything. I can't quite describe it, but it's had a very positive effect.
I've come to the following conclusions after only seeing three Japanese films, all of which have some aspect of CGI use, which was secondary to traditional methods; these kinds of films are at times equal, or better than traditional Disney films. Ghibli films, and I assume a few from Makoto Shinkai, are unafraid of things such as violence, legitimate and authentic stories and romances, and real adventures. Thing with a traditional anime art style is that it can be really expressive. Of course there's a lot of merits to subtle expression, but there's a nice... feel to open expression.
I was a little surprised at the amount of blood there was in Princess Mononoke, but it didn't feel out of place, and didn't devalue the experience. It was a beautifully animated, unafraid film depicting the perpetuity of man versus nature. Same applies with Taki's... fondling whenever he wakes up in Mitsuha's body.
The use of CGI is just sublime. I can notice when it's being used, such as in the opening sequence when there's a really fast shot through the city of Tokyo. In Princess Mononoke the demon tendrils on Ashitaka are also CGI, and that feels natural enough to not distract someone watching. And I agree that the art direction in Your Name is too beautiful to describe. My jaw dropped so low when I saw the night shot of the meteor streaking across the sky. Oh my god, I want that frame hung on my wall. Just... amazing.
Mentioning an American CG studio in the same post as Your Name is an insult to Your Name. But I have to say it anyways; Your Name makes billion-dollar grossing movies by [only] Illumination, look like the biggest waste of time that could ever be conceived in the history of entertainment. Watching Your Name and Princess Mononoke made me realise just how much love, passion and energy is put into a single movie, and thinking about any of Illumination's films makes me want to throw up. I'm sorry for this paragraph, but I hate their movies.
Length? Yeah, my mistake. It was just under 100 minutes excluding credits, and I looked up the full movie length, and I watched the uncut version indeed. Sometimes the movie felt like it dragged but other times it couldn't have passed slower.
The ending gave me almost everything I wanted, but could have been more all-encompassing. I'm happy Mitsuha and Taki found each other again, but I wish we could have had an additional minute of interaction. Just like the time at the crater rim, where they had some nice banter. I agree that in Japanese entertainment, like story-heavy fifty hour JRPGs and films, some characters can be extremely diverse in their set of emotions that it might seem like an inaccurate portrayal of Japanese culture. I leave this up to Heavyarms, but my limited exposure to this culture gives me that.
Anyways, super glad you enjoyed it.
@Heavyarms55 I was in Stratford-upon-Avon, the birthplace of William Shakespeare, in August, and when I finished seeing his birthplace, I entered the gift shop and saw manga adaptations of many of his original works. I thought to myself at the time, "why would someone make a manga version of Othello or Macbeth?!" but if people endorse the creation of a manga Holy Bible, I can't feel surprised about it at all.
I found out just after seeing Your Name that J.J. Abrams is producing a live-action adaptation of it, set in the US. The story of Your Name is so deeply rooted in Japanese culture that setting any potential remake (or reimagining or whatever they call it) in the US would be no better than making the film without any kind of licensing. If anything that probably would have been a better strategy, to develop the scenario without striking a deal with Toho and Makoto Shinkai, because people wouldn't compare it to Your Name until trailers drop.
I might be wrong but I have almost absolute faith that this movie is going to be really bad. I can't expect much from it, because one of the factors that made it work was the fact that it was an anime film. I want it to succeed because it'll expose the original film to more audiences, but at the same time I want it to fail, so that it'll enhance the image of the original.
@Tyranexx... get to it! Let's make it a quartet of critical analysis Chit-Chatters!
Every year my church has us form into groups to make skits and the best one gets a lot of candy. FYI my church has a lot of kids who do plays and musicals and stuff, while I’m just a nerd who hardly gets outta the house. My group won the whole thing, and SOMEHOW I got the best actor award. I was basically a really nerdy Elon Musk. It was pretty fun and cool that I was the best👍
Recently, i played Level-5 3DS games (Yokai Watch Blaster White Dog Squad, Fantasy Life) after long hiatus.
I registered Yokai Watch 1, 2 , Sangokushi on my purchase list for next purchase.
Still looking for Yokai Watch 3 PAL version from Ebay (I found one from Ebay but it was French language 😣)
For Sangokushi, well.... I should watch the walkthrough video from AbdallahSmash.
I should download the updates first from eshop USA and Japan before 3DS eshop closed down.
Is anyone still play Yokai Watch 3DS games ?
@Tyranexx Well, I couldn't agree more with @TheJGG: you definitely should put it on your list, because it's a wonderful, endearing experience, with stellar artistry that will stay with you for quite a while after the credits have rolled.
Oh, and again: be sure to keep reading, more anime mentions coming up. Just don't hit the spoilers until you've actually seen "Your Name"...
@Heavyarms55 Thanks for answering the call, hope you're still doing fine out there. As for anime: you're absolutely right of course, so point taken. There's SO many genres that you can't just compare them 1:1, but my point was more that these sentiments/views seemingly are a part of Asian society/way of thinking, so both the demure and the (in our Western view) sometimes overly risqué or even lewd sexism and sadism. And they're VERY good at expressing the latter two through the media of manga and anime.
So, what I was wondering about, or what was basically kind of annoying me was that after the whole 1,5 hour build up of the movie, that it ends on such a relatively unspectacular note. If two people are SO invested in finding each other, with all the hefty emotions coupled with that fact, how could it simply end on "hey, I thought I recognized you"? In a Western movie, they'd run at each other, hugging, kissing, whatever. Even just an embrace would have been a nice ending, but now it just felt kind of unfinished. How could they NOT fly into each other's arms? Here, viewer. Go fill in the blanks yourself, while we end the movie in a very modest way...
On a side note: I'd be interested to find out more about those parts of the movie that might have (will have) escaped our notice, because of us not being aware of certain cultural or societal aspects, so if you're up for it, I'd definitely want to know. Be sure to put them behind spoilers, though...
@TheJGG With your "dislike" for Illumination, I immediately wonder how you feel about Pixar. Their movies are successful after all, so they must be doing something right...
Glad we see eye to eye on the ending, though. I'm not asking for much, just something a bit more in line with the build up would have been nice. Or rather: nicer, because the entire experience was already very entertaining and engrossing as it is.
On a side note: now that you've mentioned it, and come to think of it, I'd probably also do some "grabbing" if I suddenly found myself having woken up in the body of a woman. Might even have to grab a loooong shower.
So, maybe we're not too different from Asian people after all...
Anyways, on to the next, then. By the way, along with "Your Name", I ordered a couple more animes on Blu ray. Not that I intended to, but the web shop had a "3 for €25" discount offer, while on its own, the movie would have cost me €17.99, so it was kind of a no-brainer.
The other movies I bought were "Weathering with You", "The Wind Rises", "When Marnie Was There", "Arrietty the Borrower" and because there weren't any other interesting anime discounts, I added Marvel's Venom. So, all in all, 6 Blu Ray movies for 50 bucks, which would have otherwise cost me around a 100 bucks.
The majority of the anime movies are also from Studio Ghibli, by the way, so you may definitely want to look into them.
As for J.J. Abrams: I fully have to agree with @Heavyarms55. I'd hate to see such a beautiful, intrinsically Japanese love story to be whitewashed, aka "Hollywood-ized", but if plans are already laid out, it's probably going to happen anyways. Memories of Ghost in the Shell immediately come to mind. While I simply LOVE Scarlett Johansson, I hated how they more or less the simply brilliant anime feature.
I always wonder where exactly Abrams went wrong. He's not a bad director per se, and he is someone that in general has the best intentions. I've been a fan of his TV shows for many years, but after he moved on towards making feature films, there has been a LOT of hit and miss, even though some of it is still entertaining in its own right, but not necessarily good enough to stand out or respectful enough towards or faithful enough compared to the original stories/movies.
Maybe that's what Hollywood does to an initially decent director. It's probably the dollar signs. Go big or go home, or something to that extent. You probably have to be a real stubborn SoB to be able to stand up to all of that, and that's more than likely why we only have a handful of highly revered directors in the first place. Most of the other "would be greats" or "have been greats" have already long since fallen from their marble pedestals...
Oh, well. Moving on. I'll be looking forward to your review of Ninja Scroll: The Movie...
@Anti-Matter Ha, you didn't know about Star Fox Adventures' origin story? I guess that makes sense, seeing as far as I know, you don't have an N64 in your console collection.
It's an interesting story, though, so if you want to know more about it, then you might want to watch this video, which tells the story of how an independent N64 game became a Star Fox game on the GameCube:
'The console wars are like boobs: Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'
@ThanosReXXX
Actually i prefer Star Fox Adventures as 3D action games rather than on rails shooter style Star Fox games as i have quite a lot experiences from playing Ratchet & Clank games. And to see Star Fox games always featuring the four anthro animals (Fox McCloud, Slippy, Falco, Peppy Hare), i really wish i can use any of them as 3D Action games rather than on rails shooter games
(i still terrible at on rails shooting games).
They have good looking for 3D action games, especially Falco and Fox.
I heard Star Fox Assault was half on rails shooter, half 3D action games (Fox walked on the ground), was that true ?
@ThanosReXXX Pixar's now an offshoot of Disney, with near absolute self-autonomy, and their writing and animation have been above the standard of modern filmmaking for over 25 years. For me they've perfected the recipe of what goes into a truly high quality film.
And it's not the amount of money a traditional Illumination movie makes that irks me. It's the shockingly pathetically low amount of effort going into these movies that does. I saw a video by "I Hate Everything" (who despite the name is a chill Englishman), about the movie Sing, and near the end of the video he made a montage of every single appearance for the exact same crocodile. And all these crocodiles aren't even the same characters, we see them as contestants, prisoners, chauffeurs, audience members, and random people in the street. In one shot where the camera goes through a crowd of hundreds the same crocodile guy appears about five or six times IN THE SAME SHOT.
Another point IHE brings up is the idea that the characters are all animals, yet they behave like normal humans in a city. So why make them animals? It tells us, me at least, that the design and writing team were lazy and had no desire to make a good movie, only one that brought in the money. And as silly as YouTube comments can be, one comment I saw on that video really made me think. There's a scene where a character dances in a supermarket, and this comment points out that there's a meat section in there somewhere. That's dark.
The company also really kisses the Minions' feet and I find this deplorable. They took over the franchise that created them and have more screentime than the main characters in the Despicable Me movies... who actually HAVE some inkling of humanity.
I've seen this video a few times and I can really recommend it. Has some bad language but it made me laugh much more than any Illumination film ever will.
As for J.J. Abrams: I'd hate to see such a beautiful, intrinsically Japanese love story to be whitewashed, aka "Hollywood-ized", but if plans are already laid out, it's probably going to happen anyways. Memories of Ghost in the Shell immediately come to mind.
I always wonder where exactly Abrams went wrong. He's not a bad director per se, and he is someone that in general has the best intentions. After he moved on towards making feature films, there has been a LOT of hit and miss, even though some of it is still entertaining in its own right Maybe that's what Hollywood does to an initially decent director. It's probably the dollar signs. Go big or go home, or something to that extent.
@ThanosReXXX It's a shame JJ has this kind of rep. It began with Star Trek and then he revived and killed Star Wars in under five years. The Force Awakens had some serious potential to be a new beginning for the series but it ended on such a predictable note that any kind of fanfare the series could have gotten was overcome by fans' complaints.
I can't see it ending well for Your Name in the US. Damned if you do and not damned if you don't. They just have to find a way to respect the film and make it worth existing. Imagine if they went and brought in Makoto Shinkai. That would acquit the US side of things of any wrongdoing since the original creator's doing it. Realistically that won't happen but I wonder how they'll do it.
And Ghost in the Shell.... oh boy that wasn't good. Bad enough they signed a big name like Scarlett Johansson, but the fact that she wasn't Japanese meant she would have been criticised regardless of her acting performance. I do realise that Liu Yifei isn't the most loved by Hong Kong as of late due to her comments supporting police brutality, but she could have done it if they wanted someone who could have played "MK" well. She... did Mulan. I can't tell if she did okay or if she did awful but she did it.
@Anti-Matter Well, it was kind of an on-rails shooter. It had a bit more freedom of movement than those usually have, but these were short segments, mostly. A lot was indeed on foot, and you could also use a tank when on the ground. There was a similar type game for the DS as well.
@TheJGG Fair enough about Illumination. To be honest, I never really looked that far into it. I just treat 3D animated movies as a simple popcorn time moment: brain cells on a low setting and just enjoy the ride. Usually they aren't very intellectually engaged anyways, and often times filled with cheesy comedy, so low brain settings are mostly all that's required.
And as for that video: I honestly don't know if I'll watch it, because I don't like people that nitpick or dissect EVERY little bit there is to find. If things are glaringly obvious, then fair enough, but there's a point where people need to stop complaining and get on with their lives. I've seen SO many YouTube channels that are only about complaining and things that are wrong or shouldn't be done. All of that sounds decidedly glass half-empty to me, and I'm the exact opposite.
Concerning Abrams: I always used to consider myself to be a sci-fi fanatic, and the biggest Star Wars fan alive. But then, as I grew older, I learned that you couldn't be if you also liked Star Trek, because "Trekkies" and other sci-fi series' fans don't mix, apparently. Silly humans...
So, ultimately, I decided to distance myself of these kinds of idiots, and just to enjoy what I want. As such, I also don't have as many issues with the newer Star Wars movies as most of the more invested crowd have, some of whom even recite entire chapters of the apparently official book sequels who did the original story far more justice. Well, no offense, but I don't give a rat's @ss about all of that.
The movies were well worth watching in my opinion, even though they did have some annoying scenes, which even I couldn't avoid noticing. But I never decided to pick up my torch and pitchfork over it, and just shrugged it off the minute I walked out of the cinema. No hurt feelings whatsoever that they did "my" series a grave injustice or anything.
Same with the Marvel movies. Screw the purists, these aren't the comics, it's a separate, cinematic universe. Otherwise, we'd now still be running Avengers origin stories and epic sagas of Thor and the Hulk. Mind you, I would have LOVED to see that, but you just can't capture almost 70 years of comics series into a set number of trilogies, especially if you want to keep some cohesion and also want to keep the general audience, who knows nothing about the comics at all, interested and captivated. Get too nerdy and you'll lose those. And that's important because unfortunately for the purists, the general audience is the biggest money maker...
On a side note: whatever else can be said about J.J. Abrams' Star Trek movies, I personally find the cast VERY well chosen, and if anything, at least the actors themselves try their damnedest to do the originals justice.
And perhaps he's getting a bit too much flak for them anyways: it's not like every previous Star Trek movie was a massive success either. In fact, they're infamously known for having the odd stinker among them every other movie. I believe the order was good, good, bad, good. Or something to that extent. Maybe even bad, good, bad...
I've enjoyed the recent Star Trek Reboots, so I guess I'm not a purist ... I'm not sure you'd get total agreement among the fans of the older films as to which were the 'bad' ones, though
@BruceCM Well, there IS one general consensus: the ORIGINAL, untouched trilogy that started it all is the proverbial Holy Grail. Personally, I'd think that's taking it a bit too far, but I do still think that they hold up pretty well, even by today's standards. That's the nice thing about sci-fi: none of it is real, so it can't really be tested against time as much as depictions of daily life, which will of course be far more susceptible to suffering from outdated scenery, vehicles, fashion and utensils.
'The console wars are like boobs: Sony and Microsoft fight over which ones look the nicest and Nintendo's are the most fun to play with.'
Oh, I'm just talking about the Abrams Star Treks .... Don't think there's much dispute about the original Star Wars trilogy being the best 3 of those, no
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