Topic: Mario RPG Discussion thread

Pretty much what it says it is: A thread to discuss all aspects of the Mario RPG family tree, from the trunk of the Seven Stars to the branches of Paper Mario, Mario & Luigi, and everything in between. Even that Puzzle & Dragons one nobody talks about.

Even Mario + Rabbids (that I didn't play yet)?

@Rudolf yeah that counts, too.

Hot take: Before 2012, you could make the case that Mario RPGs were the best thing Nintendo made. At the very least in the 2000s. And considering the competition that has, that's saying a lot.

Nintendo has a high standard of quality much of the time, but the first 7 Mario RPGs are fantastic games, endlessly creative and inexplicably kinda better written than most games. I think 5 out of those 7 games are widely agreed upon to be great, and the other two have enough defenders as well (while I do think Partners in Time is the worst of those 7 games, its still quite good and I think I could make the case it has the most fun combat (yes even more than its more beloved sequel)).

And in general its wild that they took Mario and brought it to one of the most story focused genres and did so well with it so often.

@kkslider5552000 I take it the other game is Super Paper Mario?

I think Partners in Time is the worst Mario RPG game (I even prefer Paper Mario Sticker Star).

But it is also the most gloomy Mario game (there is some kind of "concentration camp" in that game). I never understood why this game was considered as "funny" (there is even some depressive music, like Toadtown in ruins). A very odd game, far from what I imagine a Mario game to be.

@Rudolf what about Paper Jam?

I like Sticker Star than other Paper Mario as the game felt like FF VIII style and I like FF VIII.

Honestly I did enjoy sticker star. Sure looking back on it the game does have a few flaws but if mega man battle network can make a XPless item based RPG work then who can say that Mario can’t?

@Eel Ah, that's right, I completely forgot Paper Jam: not played it yet.

@N00BiSH Yeah obviously. I love it but it is easy to see how turning this RPG series into a platformer...RPG...thing is maybe not the best gameplay idea. To me it was just such an inventive game with such enjoyable story and dialogue (and only slightly worse music than the 10/10 all time great soundtracks the previous two games were) that if parts of the gameplay wasn't great, I didn't even notice (outside of the mostly way too easy bosses and maybe exploring in the main hub).

@Croctopus I don't think the Mario & Luigi series is really dead. All Nintendo gotta do is hire AlphaDream's former members since some of them worked on Super Mario RPG.

Gonna be honest, but I thought the first 3 Mario & Luigi games were good. But SuperStar Saga will always be my fav title in the series. Same goes for Paper Mario 64 & Super Paper Mario. Mostly 64 since I like Goombario.

And now Super Mario RPG is my top fave too. I like that it has a different feel to the overall atmosphere, to put it simply. Maybe that's just me...

@Croctopus Call me stubborn, but I really don't think just any developer can just make another M&L game like THAT. The devs at Alphadream had a very specific voice when it came to that series that makes it hard to replicate, and since most of the key people involved(i.e. writer/director Hiroyuki Kobota, artist Masanori Sato, Yoko Shimomura, etc.) went their separate ways after the company's closure, I can't really see a new M&L reaching the same levels of the older titles without their involvement.

Also how can you just say Bowser's Inside Story is okay. I know preference is preference, but like. Come on.

As far as Mario RPGs go, I absolutely adore Super Mario RPG especially after the remake, with the only thing holding it back from being a top contender for me being its length. I also generally really like the Mario & Luigi games. They have one of my favorite RPG battle systems and they're pretty consistent, with
Bowser's Inside Story and Dream Team being my favorite. My only issue with these games is that I don't get quite as emotionally invested as with SMRPG or Paper Mario because of how purely comedic they tend to be.

As for Paper Mario, I'm the rare type that actually enjoys all the games. Sticker Star and Color Splash range from mediocre to fine, but I love 64, TTYD, Super, and TOK almost equally. The only problem is that I don't really have a Paper Mario game that nails everything I want from one of these games yet. 64 has rock solid level design, battle mechanics, and pacing as well as a beautiful artstyle, but it has a light story and really underdeveloped partners. TTYD has a fantastic story and battle system, but the overworld is one of the weakest in any Mario RPG. TOK has my favorite overworld traversal and some of my favorite writing, but the battle system is pretty disposable. They're all just one step away from being perfect for me, but nothing so far has nailed the overworld, battle system, and the story all at once.

And then there's Super which I love but for reasons completely different to any of the other Paper Mario games. Frankly, I tend to treat it as its own unique beast.

My favorite Mario & Luigi is Dream Team Bros. This game has the best combat system, the best level-design, the best music, and also a very nice story. Its dreamlike atmosphere is my favorite in the series.
Then, Bowser's Inside Story is very cool.
The first game of the series is nice, but its combats have a too basic, it became boring to me. But it's still betten than Partners in Time.

As for Paper Mario, my favorite ones are Paper Mario 64 (the most charming of the series, a lot of memorable parts and a nice level-design) and Color Splash (maybe the best stages and level-design of the series, nice combat system, excellent soundtrack, also memorable parts). Paper Mario The Thousand-Year Door and Super Paper Mario are good too, but with a lot of annoying parts. Paper Mario Sticker Star is the worst (uninteresting story, it's gameplay that is a little too annoying), but that doesn't mean it is bad (it has also an excellent soundtrack, some memorable parts and nice puzzles.

Super Mario RPG is very good, but not as good as the best Paper Mario or Mario & Luigi.

I've said it before, but if we're talking about Mario RPGs, there are only two Paper Mario games to talk about: 64 and TTYD. The others, regardless of what you want to believe, are not RPGs. That is why so many people dislike them, because they try to compare them to the first two in the series, but apart from aesthetics, they are not similar. Color Splash is a Top 5 Wii U game for me, but because I realize what it is, which is not an RPG. I love Origami King because I love puzzle games and the battle system makes it like half puzzle game. I don't know why everyone gives Super a pass for being different but then expects every other game to be the same and bashes them when they are not. But regardless, the original Mario RPG is still my favorite.

@Xyphon22 In games where the player has the choice between fighting or not fighting, like those on 3DS and Wii U, it sounds very RPG to me.

And Mario is upgrading his abilities from the beginning to the end of the game (like an RPG).

@Rudolf Almost every game nowadays has your character upgrading his/her abilities throughout the game. That's why pretty much every game nowadays mentions RPG mechanics in its description. That doesn't mean it's an RPG. And many RPGs don't give you the choice between fighting or not fighting. Particularly those with random battles. There are also many non-RPGs where you have that choice. Do you have to stomp every Goomba and Koopa in most Mario games? Or do you have the choice to avoid them?

@Xyphon22 An RPG can be defined by a combination of many things:

• a character who evolves;
• exploration and a world map with at least one town and NPCs to speak with;
• turn-based battles;
• some liberty, like the liberty of not fighting, or several ways of fighting;
• an inventory to manage;
• xp and/or money (this is almost the same thing, often);
• several characters in our team;
• dungeons:
• alignment system...

Maybe I forgot some things, but an RPG must not necessarly have ALL of those elements. The fact is Super Mario Bros games lack almost all elements of this list, so it's not enough to make them "RPG" in my opinion. However, the last Paper Mario games have many of those elements, which makes me think it is not absurd to consider them as "RPG".