Topic: JRPGs vs WRPGs

Which genre do you prefer and why do you think WRPGs are dominating sales-wise recently?

For those of you who don't know the distinction, Extra Credits explains it really well.

I personally prefer the JRPG. I like the stronger narrative focus, and such a focus on a group of teenagers. I've always found Teens to be much more interesting characters in most media. The combination of struggles growing up combined with the major problem makes them really engaging protagonists.

And if you ask me, the WRPG dominates for one major reason today, art style. There is some annoying taboo (From my experience) in western cultures against animated things. Even with Disney, Pixar, and Nintendo, who all make great strides to appeal to larger groups, the taboo still exists, it's just a bit weaker. This is especially the case with dramatic material. I think Cartoons are a good example. Family Guy is a well known and popular animated show that happens to be a comedy. Even more family friendly shows like Phineas and Ferb have respectable exposure among adults. Then look at a show like Young Justice, it may be well liked and well received, but it's exposure among adults is small, and when you talk about it among adults, you will likely get funny looks at first. That's not to say everyone in the west falls under this taboo, but it's an element of our culture

And I believe the same issue finds its way into RPGs. Mario and Sonic aren't plot based, and therefore have no problem seeing a broad appeal, but with a plot based game in a colorful art style like Ni No Kuni, that anime/cartoon appearance is an instant turn off to a lot of people. It screams "children's story". The game did sell about 1.2 million units, but that's less than half of the sales Mass Effect got just on the 360. If Bethesda put the next Fallout game in Wind Waker's art style, I guarantee you it would sell much less

I'm a combination. I generally love the art and music direction of JRPGs, but like more open-ended approach of wRPGs. I loved Windwaker's art style, and I've posted so many love letters about Child of Light on this forum that there shouldn't be anyone here who isn't familiar with my feelings about the game. I also enjoyed both Oblivion and Skyrim, though admittedly I've never been able to get into Mass Effect or Dragon Age.

No. WRPGs have dominated because most big JRPGs have become stale. Final Fantasy is not what is used to be. And people just like gore-filled shooters.

This too. Bravely Default and Child of Light have been a massive wake-up call for jRPG developers.

JRPGs. Even my favorite Western RPG, Mass Effect, is still at times far away from what defines that genre, and I love traditional narrative in games. Also, anime fan, so obvious answer.

Western RPGs are cool too though.

Final Fantasy is western targeted though.

I like some of both types. I don't like the Skyrim type (I did quite like Oblivion and Morrowind.)

I really like (There is others I did like but I no longer do).

Ultima VII
Knights of the Old Republic
Neverwinter Nights
Jade Empire

JRPG's
Final Fantasy IV
Final Fantasy VI
Dragon Quest - All of them I have played
Tales of Phantasia
Secret of Mana
Earthbound
Radiant Historia
Final Fantasy III (DS version).

Western RPG's were better when they were made for the PC (Or Home Computers).

(Coincidently the same also applies to FPS's)

Here's my issue with that judgement. It feels like people conflate the word JRPG with "Final Fantasy". Yes, Final Fantasy games have not been received well as of late, but like you give examples for, other JRPGs ARE well received. Games like Ni No Kuni, SMT 4, and Xenoblade are very well received and are praised for "being a return to form" but such games have been incredibly frequent as of late.

As an aside, I was thinking and I believe Extra Credits separates the genres too much. If you as me, the best JRPG's have exploration and aspects of expression through customization, while the best WRPGs have a good narrative.

Yes, but none of those games were/are as highly recognized as final fantasy is. It is (was, at least) considered the biggest JRPG franchise out there and one of the few that convinced casuals that JRPGs are fun.

I prefer western RPGs, though if every western RPG was more like my favorite games, RPGs would be a much different genre.

I think a lot of why western RPGs come out on top, though, is because of how they handle player agency. They often focus on giving players choices, featuring different ways to accomplish quests, branching story paths, and a huge variety of customization when leveling up your character.

jRPGs are more likely to give players very pre-defined paths through the game and characters who are much more set in stone.

There are other reasons, though. The whole teenagers saving the world thing gets old really quick; there's a lot of pointless melodrama that isn't very appealing to a lot of people. There's also the way the story is written; jRPGs do a lot of telling instead of showing. They also tend to really pull their punches, making any twists visible a mile off, and having characters dwell on issues that should have been resolved long ago. For a lot of people, the story in a jRPG is the weakest part.

Yes, FF was the most recognized JRPG, but let me ask you something. If Mario games suddenly started being mediocre, but several new quality retail platformers cropped, up would that mean the Platformer genre had gotten stale?

Genre leaders can come and go, just because the leader is mediocre doesn't mean the entire genre has problems.

JRPG's. I prefer the better narratives and better music and fantasy artstyle. Skyrim and Mass Effect and most other WRPG's it seems, while they look great graphics-wise, they look rather drab and dull art-wise. There is not a single Western game that comes to mind that has given me the sense of awe that lasted for something like 5 whole mins that Xenoblade Chronicles gave me when I walked out into the open Gaur Plain. The strings started playing with that awesome upbeat drum and I literally put down the controller just to hear the music and take in the scenery. And then it happened at Makna Forest again. And Eryth Sea. And Mechonis Field(dat music!). And Fallen Arm. Yeah until any WRPG gives me that same sense of awe, JRPG's will always dominate for me.

I agree that's not a big appeal to the western world. There is a reason a majority of game and movie posters feature a grizzled white guy in is 40's. And while that can be enjoyable, I far prefer stories regarding teenagers. I really just can't relate as much to an older guy is broken, as I can to a teenager going through self discovery, something that every human being goes through at one point or another. Maybe it's just because I myself am in my early 20's.

I think you mean "Doing instead of Showing", which more often applies to game. JRPGs do a decent job of showing you something instead of straight up telling you it, but the story isn't necessarily told through the gameplay. But I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, and I don't think it has something that has changed to reduce the popularity of JRPGs. A Minimalistic story told through gameplay can be really cool, but it's not the only way. I think JRPGs can do a good job of having story and gameplay work off of each other, with story motivating gameplay that than works to reinforce character relationships and plotpoints.

Did I just read someone call the art of Mass Effect drab.

Anyway depends on how I'm feeling. If I want a game that is super tropy like anime than JRPGs are usually it. If I want a good sci-fantasy game than WRPG.

Than you have games like the souls series that are JRPGs but take a lot from WRPG conventions.

I love JRPGs have never been able to get into WRPGs...... why are WRPGs dominating? well they have always been popular on PC while JRPGs dominated in console, the 360/PS3 was the first generation that WRPGs have really become a thing on consoles so I guess console gamers have been drawn by the novelty.... I'll think it'll be more balanced this gen

The original Xbox had quite a few WRPGs.

Fable
Morriwind
Jade Empire
KOTOR I & II

JRPGs couldn't keep up and Western RPG makers tend to be more flexible in terms of gameplay styles and settings.

For me, whilst I can agree that JRPGs have the better art direction, music, characterization etc (of course, I'm generalizing massively here - there are drab JRPGs and great-looking WRPGs), I prefer WRPGs for the actual playability. JRPGs tend to fall into a few game design pitfalls that kill a lot of the experience for me, such as:

(note that I'm not saying that any of the things in this list are unique to JRPGs - just that in my experience they're much more prone to it than other genres)

• Game Over booting you to the title screen, forcing you to resume from whenever you last happened to save. Seriously, this was acceptable in the 80s when the tech was limited, but it's 2014 now. Stop it.
• Artificial padding - tedious grind quests; "difficulty curves" defined simply by bashing everything up 6 levels and requiring you to go and level grind for a few hours; awkward, slow travel; etc. Xenoblade for example is fantastic, but it falls into a lot of these way too much, and as such I just can't bring myself to finish the thing.
• Unskippable cutscenes - definitely not limited to JRPGs by any stretch, but they do seem particularly fond of it.
• Pacing - overlaps a lot with artificial padding. But for me at least, an epic storyline loses some of its immersion if I'm waiting several hours (which could be several in-game weeks) between each important plot point.
• Chance vs skill balance - RPGs of all varieties are always gonna be based on some random dice rolling due to their roots in board game RPGs. That in itself isn't a problem. But things like items with a 5% drop chance on a rare enemy, and I'm having to fight the thing over and over for multiple hours to get one? That's not skill. There's precisely zero skill in that. It's just mindless luck, and to me, that is not conducive to good game design.

The few JRPG series I have been able to get into (Pokémon, Paper Mario for eg) are the ones that have managed to avoid at least some of these design issues (or where they are there, to a much lesser degree). For me, if JRPGs in general could get past these issues, I'd likely be much more inclined to play them. I'm sure a lot of other people would too.

"items with a 5% drop chance" How do you know about stuff like that without using a guide (Which makes even playing the game completely pointless).

They are different genres in essence, they just happen to share a commonality in their name. They don't need to be pitted against each other only for that reason. Regardless, from what I've played I'd have to say I'd have to say WRPG, simply because Dragon Quest is the only JRPG series I really like.

Oh, that too. I'm fine with guide-dang-it stuff when it's super-secret stuff that has no impact on standard gameplay ("oh hey, you can find that? That's kinda cool."), but don't fill the game with it. It's not always guide-based though. For example, consider I'm given a quest:
[NPC]: "Go fetch me a Magic Ore from a Frost Goblin"

And two hours and 20 Frost Goblins later, I'm search through GameFAQs wondering why the hell I don't have a sackful of Magic Ore yet
[User]: "Yeah, they only drop 5% of the time. Keep trying!"

This is when I feel like the game is just wasting my time.

But some genres are more different than others. Both JRPGs, WRPGs, and Action-Adventure games could be grouped into an "Adventure" supergenre, as they all feature a major component of venturing through an overworld and require at least a moderate degree of storytelling. Both WRPGs and JRPGs also have core aesthetics of growth and abnegation like EC said.

That's why we often see comparisons between Skyrim and Zelda, or between Mass Effect and Final Fantasy, but not between Tales and Mario. Platformers differ on almost every level.