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Topic: Everything points out to Massively disappointing E3

Posts 81 to 100 of 296

Timppis

@Marshi

Ah I wasn't clear on what I meant.

I meant that I agree that E3 shouldn't determine our view on the Switch and the games that we are going to get.

Having ARMS and Splatoon 2 that we have already had a dedicated Direct of taking a bulk of what still is the most influential stage on the industry is not good.

There is no reason to think that we would see what Retro is working on. Why should we? Because we haven't in a long time? How come that is a reasoning on this?

As I said before I am not pessimist or half glass empty kinda guy. I simply assess what I see. All signs point to lackluster E3 that will create negativity towards Switch and Nintendo will then need to work harded to make it a success, which it has a great potential for.

Timppis

MarcelRguez

@Timppis Oh, they think about people's expectations alright. They just don't bend to them.

Besides, Nintendo doesn't control the marketing of the Pokémon franchise. The Pokémon Company does.

MarcelRguez

3DS Friend Code: 3308-4605-6296 | Nintendo Network ID: Marce2240 | Twitter:

Timppis

@MarcelRguez

Thinking that Nintendo as owner of the IP and sizeable owner in the said company doesn't have influence on this... well yeah. Ok.

Timppis

MarcelRguez

@Timppis You are aware that TPC's sole function is to manage that IP, right? And that the IP isn't owned by Nintendo alone? Of course Nintendo has a good degree of control over the IP, but marketing strategy is 100% TPC. 100%.

MarcelRguez

3DS Friend Code: 3308-4605-6296 | Nintendo Network ID: Marce2240 | Twitter:

Monado_X

Timppis wrote:

@Monado_X

You are right that your average mom or dad who buys Switch and games for the offspring won't watch E3 but the media most certainly does as do the retailers. And if there is no hype for Switch (or there is lack of actual units for a long period of time) then there will be smaller portions dedicated to Nintendo in their magazines and their shops.

@Timppis
Again, I disagree with you. And what media? The mainstream NBCs, CNNs and CBSs? They might do a "cute" little news story about "the gamers" but that'll be it. And again, retailers don't make decisions based on hype. They make them based on previous sales and sales projections. They don't look at leaks or other things and think to themselves "Oh, cool, a new Metroid game? That'll sell millions of Switches." I cannot stand this whole "hype" argument. Hype is fluff when you don't really have anything to deliver. Again, look at Sony's conferences the past few years. "Oh boy, they're so HYPE!!!!!!!" but half of the things they announce don't even release until years later. Stop getting hyped, people. It's fine to get excited, but hype just leads to the snowball effect; it gets bigger and bigger until it gets out of control.

Monado_X

Timppis

@Monado_X

You say that decision aren't made on Hype?

Looking at how the Nintendo Stock has moved during, before and after any "Hype" I beg to disagree.

@MarcelRguez

The IP Pokemon is wholly owned by Nintendo. Nintendo owns every single trademark, pokemon name etc.

Pokemon Company takes care of the marketing. But Nintendo as a sizeable owner is well represented there. In every decision Nintendo is there.

Edited on by Timppis

Timppis

Monado_X

@Timppis Most business investors don't buy on hype. The see projected profits, get in while the price is low and sell high for maximum profits. These people are mostly suits who could care less about gaming. They see dollar signs from increased sales. That's why they buy.

Edited on by Monado_X

Monado_X

MarcelRguez

@Timppis You are talking about things you don't seem to understand.

  • Nintendo owns the Pokémon trademark.
  • The IP as a whole (which is not just the trademark) is the property of Nintendo, Game Freak and Creatures.
  • Nintendo has shares in both other companies.
  • The Pokémon Company is also owned by Nintendo, Creatures Inc. and Game Freak.
  • TPC acts as the agent of the brand. They operate autonomously of their parent companies.

Since the whole situation with the IP is so complicated, marketing, licensing and such other matters are done by TPC without necessary input from Nintendo. It's the reason why they are the ones that send DMCAs and C&Ds when it comes to the Pokémon brand and not Nintendo, despite Nintendo being the trademark owner. It's also the reason why people have been calling Nintendo idiots for the last two decades when it comes to Pokémon: they relinquished control over an IP they created in conjunction with Creatures because they didn't want to get tangled up in legalities.

Read a bit:
Source 1
Source 2
Source 3

Edited on by MarcelRguez

MarcelRguez

3DS Friend Code: 3308-4605-6296 | Nintendo Network ID: Marce2240 | Twitter:

NEStalgia

Timppis wrote:

@MarcelRguez

I will bake a cake (delicious) that will say that I was a massive jackass and I humbly apologize to all if Xeno 2 is released this year. This I promise.

@NEStalgia

No. I won't believe them about this particular game because of the franchises history and Nintendos (good) policy of polishing their main line games instead of releasing them as scheduled.

It's rare to find someone debating like this on the internet that is willing to apologize if proven wrong. It's refreshing to see, good on you! It also makes the debate more interesting

As for Xenoblade, yeah that's what Miguel assumed you were basing it on as well. Given the history that's a fair reason, but it doesn't appear to apply in this instance. XC1 was an experiment they didn't even intend to localize outside Japan until NoE cambered for it and said they'd pay 100% for localization. NoA did the whole back channel GameStop Exclusive deal. It was a mess of a game Nintendo thought had no Western appeal. The problem with XCX is it was announced WAAAAY too early because they didn't understand WiiU development (at all) at the time, which ultimately was 1/3 of what went wrong with WiiU overall. They had NOTHING to show. Most of it was a pre-rendered trailer. They basically did a Sony-style announce of "some game for the future" without even having a working HD engine for it. XC2 they're giving it the AAA treatment, used it as a major launch trailer for a new console launch, and showed us a running game back in January. That left almost another YEAR for development to make the 2017 release, and that's with Nintendo actually spending proper budget on it as a major title rather than treating it as a localization of a Japan game. Regardless of what happens, XC2 is getting a whole different treatment than the prior two did, so the situation isn't comparable.

"And if there is no hype for Switch (or there is lack of actual units for a long period of time) then there will be smaller portions dedicated to Nintendo in their magazines and their shops."

If there's no hype, yes. If there's no actual units, there's clearly hype. A successful product that flys off shelves the moment it arrives is precisely the product that will be covered in magazines and shops. Everyone wants to sell/write about a fast selling popular product....the "Cabbage Patch Doll" of the modern age that forms lines outside the store at opening, and generates constant phone calls and drop in visits to stores. Nobody wants to write about or promote in store products that sit on store shelves. Right now the situation is the latter. The press and retail industry LOVE products so popular you can't get them without persistence.

NEStalgia

NEStalgia

@KryptoKrunch The funny thing is the E3 that's most praised by Nintendo fans is the one that they pulled a Sony and announced a reel full of games that were years away. And everyone wants such an "Awesome" E3 from them again and is disappointed when they don't get it. That includes the Sony style reveal of XCX that was barely even into development when they announced it. And Tokyo Mirage where they hadn't even figured out what genre of game it was going to BE! They still thought it was going to be an SRPG at that point!

E3 fans are a weird bunch. Don't tell me about games I WILL get in the next 8 months. Tell me about games I MIGHT get in the next 8 years!

NEStalgia

Timppis

@NEStalgia

Well I am one of "those people" that want cinematic trailers of games that are still years away.

That's why I kickstart too.

Oh and I will also take a picture of that cake.

Timppis

NEStalgia

@Timppis I suppose there's definitely an audience that likes that....but that's also the thing that leads to most of the disappointment. XCX, BotW, Tokyo Mirage had no place being revealed in 2014, they weren't close to ready, and all the grumbling from fans for so long was because even though everyone wanted to hear about games early, the next year they were upset to hear about the previous year's games. That's the tradeoff to hearing about them early. Same for Square with HK3 and FFVII:2. And Sony with....well pretty much everything. MS hyped Scalebound years in advance, and it was all wasted hype, the game was cancelled.

Nothing wrong with enjoying it if you enjoy it, though. People just need to keep expectations in check when they're viewing things years out in advance: In a few years, if it exists at all, you'll see it presented again as the new thing.

Hopefully this cake is not a lie.

NEStalgia

Grumblevolcano

@NEStalgia 2013, not 2014. XCX, SMTxFE (this became TMS#FE), Yoshi's Woolly World and a tease about their plans for BotW were in the infamous January 2013 Direct.

Grumblevolcano

Switch Friend Code: SW-2595-6790-2897 | 3DS Friend Code: 3926-6300-7087 | Nintendo Network ID: GrumbleVolcano

NEStalgia

I was thinking about the "ever so awesome and epic and amazing E3 2014 that everyone likes to go on and on about that was a bunch of hollow reveals of these games.

But you're right, we'd seen them before at that direct. That's even worse. Months after the WiiU launched, and we didn't get the last of those games until the last 6 months of the console.

(Still better than Last Guardian though.....a console debut game that finally came out mid-way through the NEXT console.... )

NEStalgia

Monado_X

@NEStalgia I loved E3 2014. And I don't think they showed off too many games that were too far off. The only ones that didn't come within a year were Xenoblade X and Zelda. Splatoon came out the next May, Hyrule Warriors in September. ORAS that winter. Smash that fall and winter. I don't mind seeing one or two games that are somewhat far off. I hope they do that this year. Sony's problem is they show off games like Death Standing that doesn't even have anything to play yet, and that's typically all they show.

Edited on by Monado_X

Monado_X

NEStalgia

@Monado_X I might be conflating 2014 with the 2013 direct..... I'm thinking XCX, Zelda, Tokyo Mirage, Wooly World....a lot of things that were a long time off for a very Sony show.

Sony OTOH, Death Stranding, yeah....that was mostly a "See, look, we have Kojima now" (With the embarrassing virtual red carpet that was out of step with him.)

Between that, and HK3, FF7, remember...I don't even remember the name.....Square's big...something...taht seems like total vaporware, the whole debacle of Rime and No Man's Sky being presented as they were, and trotting out Shenmue to advertise for a freaking unfunded Kickstarter at a multi-million dollar presentation. That's just low. Sony: You're a publisher. If YOU aren't going to fund this game, why exactly do you think someone else should? And why does this have anything to do with a Sony show?

NEStalgia

Monado_X

Yeah, the January Wii U Direct in 2013 was a bad decision. They had nothing to show of those games for years.

Monado_X

Grumblevolcano

E3 2014 digital event had:

  • Smash
  • amiibo (New)
  • Yoshi's Woolly World
  • Captain Toad Treasure Tracker (New)
  • BotW (First actual footage)
  • Pokemon ORAS
  • Bayonetta 1+2 (1 was a new announcement)
  • Hyrule Warriors
  • Kirby and the Rainbow Curse (New)
  • XCX
  • Super Mario Maker (New)
  • Splatoon (New)
  • Smash
  • Star Fox (New, blurry screen tease)

Grumblevolcano

Switch Friend Code: SW-2595-6790-2897 | 3DS Friend Code: 3926-6300-7087 | Nintendo Network ID: GrumbleVolcano

TuVictus

That was a good year for them

TuVictus

Monado_X

If they could replicate 2014 this year, or, more likely, next year, that would be great.

Monado_X

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