Topic: Metroid Prime Federation Force (and Blast Ball)

@kyuubikid213: I'm fairly certain they already confirmed that Samus would be in the game but would have a different role. Whether that means gameplay or just a story element we dont know but I thought I should keep you in the know.

@Koopa-King: I know that much. But I still see it listed as one of the problems with this unreleased game when someone brings it up.

It's not just bias. Prime 2 and 3 simply change the gameplay on a larger scale than the recent platformers and Smash. I haven't seen anything from games like 3D World and Tropical Freeze that has the same effect on their respective IPs gameplay as gameplay elements like Hypermode, Wii controls, and the Grapple Lasso has in Prime 3.

That's true, it's not always black and white, they should only innovate in areas where innovation makes sense. However, they're not getting this balance right and rehashing IPs that could use some bigger improvements. I'd have no problem with say, Kirby or Yoshi rehashing because I can't really think of anywhere else for them to go (aside from 3D, but the novelty of that will wear off quickly).

That works both ways, Nintendo outright killing off the IP because they're not willing to make a game more like Prime or the Classic 2D games. In fact, I'd say it's more immature of Nintendo because they have control over the IP, if they're not willing to make the Metroid game that the fanbase wants and deserves, then it shows that they have a narrow minded, dictatorial vision of what the Metroid series should be. If they want the series to branch out, they need a good balance of familiar elements that define the series and new elements that create a different experience. With FF they're leaning almost entirely in the direction of the latter, which is what the fanbase is upset about.

I think the opposite needs to happen, actually, keep the characters but change the gameplay. The Federation soldiers fit perfectly, the problem is that the gameplay isn't as Metroid like as it should be. Change up the gameplay and especially the level design to be meatier and more exploration based while keeping the co-op gameplay and then you've got a good foundation for spinoff gameplay.

Ok, I'd have to agree with @Bolt_Strike here. Fed Force does lean a bit too much in one direction for my tastes.

As for what's happened with Fed Force, I imagine it's been pushed back. The question is whether it was pushed back to flesh out the release schedule, or because the game is being reworked?

I'm still waiting for the answer to "what could smash 4 have done to not be a rehash while still implementing new things and still appealing to melee fans that hated brawl because it had new things".

Lmao, it seems like everygame that has any changes is just shunned for not being like the others.. and any game that has similar mechanics and gameplay is a straight up rehash.

Hypermode was actually what has people complaining about prime 3 the most. Anybody who doesn't favor three over the others will surely mention that hypermode was an op and unnecessary addition aside from the late game where it's the entire game. Having it on a regular basis took the extreme measures out of fighting, while still making boss battles a bit more epic with having to switch between modes... which doesn't differ much since you lose a lot of visors and the beams can't be switched.. basically you have 2 beams, power and hyper, and the power just upgrades. We had 4-6 beams in MP1/2 we switched between, hyper mode is just a filler.

Grapple lasso was awesome, not gonna lie.

Wii controls didn't mean much really. They just simply made the game easier to play, when trilogy/JP versions of the older games came out, you can notice it doesn't change much except nerf a couple bosses with better aiming (curse you boost ball bas-) and generally make the experience more appealing. (FUN FACT: MP3 has a hackable beta in MP2 on the game cube which contains a lot of the norion part of the game, only models and textures were fixed up from the GC to wii transition.. and controls.)

The question is, if prime 4 did release.. what would nintendo be able to do to make it innovative enough to not be considered a rehash, while appealing enough and similar to past titles to appease modern metroid fans? Wii u game pad can provide some interesting tricks..

The only thing I hate, is how since prime 3 onward, they have been lazying out of the environmental aspect of the game, particularly.. scanning and I mean this for prime 3 too, not just OM and FF. Prime 1 and 2 had ton of things to scan and has 3d models/good pictures to show the scans.. as well as long text. Prime 3 kept it really short, and most of the images hardly looks like the scannable object, if there was an image... there was plenty to scan though, just none of it was intriguing enough.

You know... I've made a hype train for this game. It's still chugging along. I've been having alotta fun this gen thanks to my Wii U and PS4 and 3DS. Some of you guys are making gaming sound horrible when its not. There's some horrible gaming practices but overall gaming is great.

@Grumblevolcano: The merging now makes it that they can come up with fresh ideas.

Also, The disc content if its free really isn't a problem. I don't see how that can be a problem in the first place when the game is only trying to teach you the basics before unlocking further on. Isn't it the same as in game content where you can't unlock a specific stage unless you do some conditions?

@Bolt_Strike: Except that the higher ups aren't the ones making these new games and they are letting the young generations make them.

The ability to make your own fighting stage for Smash, Being one of the few fighting games on a handheld...definitely something noteworthy.

Its funny how you say that abusing the IP is a cash grab when it has the potential to make a loss. And please don't give an example from SEGA as they are not what they use to be. I rather play Tri Force Heroes than Sonic Boom for as not great game as heroes is, its at best a finished game unlike Boom which is why I'm curious about FF because no matter how mixed it might be, its most likely going to be a finished game something that you rarely see in the game world these days. So I don't think you can compare Boom over FF.

I can dare say that Zero Mission is just a rehash of Fusion. But who would complain about that when they are both GREAT GAMES?

Heck, there are countless debates over which Zelda game is the best when they ALL WERE!

@Artwark: what is good, what is not, what is the best. All of the things you are saying are just your opinion. You cant have a fruitfull debate if you insist that what you think are facts.

After Triforce Heroes I'd much rather have this on the Wii U so it'll have better internet connection rather than me playing a dumb solo version of it by myself on the train but then again considering Zelda's lobby is already starting to be empty and this game's backlash I may not be even able to find people to play with online regardless.

Hey, @Bolt_Strike, I'm gonna let you in on a little secret, okay?

Come closer... No. Closer. Closer.... Okay, good. You ready?

IT'S A SPIN-OFF!!

Please tell me how many times a spin-off changed the style of the main series completely. I could be completely wrong, but Four Swords didn't change Zelda forever and Mario Party sure as heck didn't change Super Mario forever.

@Tubalcain: Neither does @Bolt_Strike. I'm curious as to how he'll keep counter attacking his points until it comes to the point that he's given up his argument.

No scratch that. I'd be amazed if @skywake were to show up and counter his argument.

Guys take it to the unpopular opinions thread, this is a discussion for Federation Force.

@Santa: But that's just the point. For everything around here that he's complaining about, it ends up with the quality of FF.

Seriously, how could be say that nearly every 3DS game and Wii U game is a rehash after rehash when clearly, many of them aren't? And he's assuming that since the spinoffs that Nintendo has here are of a mix bag, he's overconfident that FF will end up here as well and I assure you that the spinoffs that Nintendo released this year aren't all bad.

Chill, no need to be a smart arse. But seriously, it's the worst idea, because spin-offs are to only be made when they're wanted. People wanted more of Raiden from MGS4 and to see how awesome he could be, Boom Revengeance was made, because people wanted it. During that 5 years of no Metroid, did you ever hear people wanting a cheap graphic, chibbi, full multiplayer-based, Metroid that didn't have the hint of Samus or high lore and exploration? While this can have the potential to be bought and likes, it's risky. I know this does sound far-fetched, but this does impact the series because, believe it or not people may not buy it, thus ruining everything the devs worked for and they might not have extra for a proper Metroid game. But we have to give a benefit of the doubt and show support or we won't be getting a good Metroid at all.
It's "milking" at it's finest.

Our discussion has pushed the boarders of off topic and slightly becoming broader in terms of universal content, however tbf this is part of the FF discussion in that we're trying to persuade others to give the game a chance and try to make people become a bit more optamistic about accepting new titles, and gaining a clear understand of what FF/any future titles need to do to improve.

Did you ever hear people saying they DIDN'T want another metroid game at all spin-off or not either? I'm sure if nintendo said at E3 "Hey guys, would you like a metroid spin-off? our team is working very hard to try and continue the series, and we'd like to provide a new spin off game for the time being as opposed to nothing, we'll start the development immidiantly" I'm sure fans would be cheering still as long as it wasn't pinball 2.

Also samus has been confirmed a LONG time ago.. also I like how you're complaining about the lore (aka the minor hidden details NO GAME has ever mentioned at reveal.) and exploriation when the game hasn't seen more than a level to justify no exploration or indepth lore.

@kyuubikid213 Let's forget about what Nintendo's said about this game for a moment (because you have to remember, this is PR, it's usually not 100% honest) and look at the facts surrounding this game.

-The gameplay style is completely different from Metroid and the levels we've seen don't showcase any kind of familiar Metroid elements besides general FPS gameplay and a handful of generic weapons.
-Metroid Prime 4 is not in development at all. Not just unfinished, no one has even started on it as of E3.
-The Metroid series generally has a low attach rate and low sales.

Now with that in mind let's come back to Nintendo's PR. Do you really buy that this game is a spinoff designed to tide the fans over until the next main game? I would argue not, taking into consideration the above facts it doesn't seem that Nintendo is interested in making a main series game the way the fans want it at all. If they did, we would have seen or at least heard about a new Metroid game that sticks to Samus' roots at this point, like how Nintendo has said they were making Zelda U a while ago but has Nintendo given Metroid fans the same kind of assurance? Nope, it's always "we'd like to make one but we can't right now", which is a non-committal answer. So I can't buy their statement that this is just a spinoff, it's not believable when they've gone out of their way to avoid the main series gameplay. If they want the fanbase to give FF a chance they need to provide some sort of evidence (not just the same wishy-washy PR statements we've been hearing for the last 2 or 3 years) that the main series gameplay isn't being abandoned, either by working more of it into FF or definitively stating that a main series game is in the works. That's the only way they can regain the fanbase's trust.

That's a question that shouldn't even be asked, if they can't be bothered to appeal to what the fanbase wants, then they shouldn't even bother with the IP in the first place. It'd be better for Metroid to die with its dignity intact than have it driven into the ground. It should be understood that if Nintendo wants to continue with Metroid then on some level they need to give the fans what they want. If it's taking too long to work on the next game, do what they're doing with Zelda U and provide remakes of games the fans enjoyed to bide their time and provide occasional updates, that at least assures the fanbase that Nintendo is actually taking them into consideration. Like I said to kyuukid213 above, Nintendo hasn't assured the Metroid fanbase that they actually want to make the game the fanbase wants them to make and in fact they're implying more that they don't want to make that game at all, so there's no reason to trust Nintendo's plans for the series.

Say what you will about needing to see the final product, but first impressions are very important, especially to a more casual audience that may not follow what's going on with the game. So if they wanted to convey that this game has those things, they really should've done a better job of that in its initial reveal at E3 to make sure people fundamentally understand what the game is about.

@Bolt_Strike: Problem is that Reggie himself said that Nintendo knows the awareness of the true Metroid game. Thing is, its not happening right now at this moment.

Actually, first impressions don't do much other than giving idea to players what they have to deal with. Wind Waker turned out to be a great game despite its artstyle (Which I love btw!). Again, you and all of us here know only very little about the game. Also, didn't Tanabe-San said that while the game is a spin off, it explains the events that would lead into the prime series?

My brother is convinced that Sylux from Metroid Prime Hunters will make an appearance and possibly play a big role in this game or future Metroid games.

There's a huge difference between knowing about the problem and actually doing something about it. They could do a better job of satiating the fan demand, why not do a quick remake of Super Metroid for instance? That would be a crowd pleaser.

Exactly. And if there's confusion about what they're dealing with as there is with this game, it's a bad first impression.