Talking Point: Is Super Mario Bros. Wonder Really A Departure From The 'New' Series?

It looks about the same to me,except with a touch fuzzy/flipping element. Dunno what elephant Mario is all about.

Whatever it is at least it's not NSMB. They could have just took the lazy route and made NSMB switch or Mario maker 3. Looks to me like they are finally trying something different. I've never seen Elephant Mario so that's new!

I mean, it's definitely still 2D Mario, like how the NSMB games were. But the style is almost completely revamped. This is probably the farthest they could deviate from the "New" style other than going back to pixel art.

Looks the same to me, just with some technical improvements. Character model revamps don't do it for me. Cut clips from this with any of the other "New" HD entries and most folks unfamiliar with the series would think it's the same game

It's clearly similar but there are still a lot of differences. Looks a lot better and the amount of detail really makes the game feel more alive.

However, in general, how far can you get away from the New series for a 2D Mario platforming game? For this genre, there's not that much you can change.

"It's different enough" is the perfect way to put it.

It doesn't completely re-invent the wheel, but it's a fresh change of pace which is very much welcome after decades of the "New" Super Mario Bros aesthetic.

To me, the difference between Wonder and New Super Mario is like the difference between Super Mario 3 and Super Mario World — the core design tenets are still firmly intact, with a sparkly new coat of paint to keep things interesting.

I really disliked the look of the NSMB games. Lifeless with plastic looking models. Pleasant enough, but that’s as much praise as I can give that art style.

This looks so much more interesting than anything in the NSMB series. Not quite the Rayman Legends/Origins style I’d hoped they’d go for but definitely a lot more animated and painterly than NSMB. Going a lot crazier with the power ups and gameplay too, it looks great.

Thank goodness it's not Mario bros the movie the game. I'd be up for a Mario bros 2 sequel where wart returns.

Wonder contains the letters of new as well as mentioning Rod so maybe we will get Rod Stewart as DLC and rename it New Super Mario Bros Rod Edition.

The devil is in the details on this one. The animation and the inventiveness we’ve seen certainly set this apart in spite of the similarities.

I’m actually surprised that Super Mario Bros Run wasn’t mentioned by a writer. The level of speed and acrobatics required for the optimal path feel like SMBR. I do hope they learned all the right lessons from SMBR though.

A visual/stylistic overhaul is precisely what the series desperately needed.

But the main point of difference here is that Wonder is bursting with personality, while the "New" series, after so many entries, felt almost neutered with its lack of it given that the various games were virtually indistinguishable from one another.

And of course, any new mechanics are a bonus.

Shouldn't we wait until Wonder is actually out (or somebody has a hands on) before asking that question? Analyzing a trailer to death isn't going to provide that much information.

Yes it is. The game doesn’t have “New” slapped on it, art style is different, Mario and Luigi finally have new voice lines, it’s not that complicated.

The LOOK is what hooked me. I like when Nintendo changes up character designs a little.

I feel like they found a way to make a "New" game look interesting and were smart with branding. With that being said, there are clear tonal differences between Wonder and the New games, so I agree with the general sentiment that it looks different enough. In any case, it looks like a blast!

"Of course, zooming in on every frame is not how I will actually experience the game" - do we actually know that it won't zoom in during gameplay? The way the trailer presented made me think that this is exactly what would happen during gameplay, and I can't say I'm a fan if this is the case.

I mean it's different enough...visually. But don't you think the best course is to...oh, I don't know...like WAIT until the game is out???

Not trying to be blunt here, but a video can show us so much without having to try it out OURSELVES. That's just common sense...

Look. All this game has to do is not kick me back to the map every time I die and I'll love it.

I would have liked to be able to see just a little bit of depth in the platforms like most other modern 2D games do including Donkey Kong, Kirby, or even Smash Bros. Where you can actually see what Mario is standing on. Perhaps they thought it would make it harder for players to judge distances, but it's not a problem in any of those other games. As it is, I can't tell if pipes are actually 3D modeled or just a sprite because I can only see the one very specific angle that removes all sense of depth. Just giving us the tiniest inclunation of a z-axis would have gone a long ways in making this game stand out more from its predecessors.

I liked the "New" series. It's just that it was time to move on from that look for the series after the third iteration of the game. There were four "New" series games, 1 too many. I loved the actual gameplay in all of them and that is what matters most. The same, I'm sure, will be the case here. The upgrade to the visual detailing and some gimmicks that we see in Wonder Mario is one generation late, but welcome. I like it.

Nobody else is mentioning how Mario has slowly adopted some of Sonic's traits over the years to become cooler. Running with arms behind him in the New series, and now the side-mouth smirk.

It’s like arguing that “furious 7” wasn’t a fast and furious movie, because it removed “fast and” from the title.

alright alright let's be honest everybody, the game looks amazing and all, no doubt but honestly?! Sega with Sonic Superstars kicked nintendo’s butt on this one

He's an elephant on drugs. That makes it plenty different 🙃

TLDR: Yes I think there's a good amount of new ideas here, both graphically and mechanically.

I have a weird experience with 2D Mario. For anyone who has a younger sibling (and wasn't thrilled with that at the time) you will know they obsess over things. My Sister's was 2D Mario. Before her, I'd never even played a Mario game (Nowadays I like 3D Land/World and Odyssey and even saw the movie)

But anyway...SO MANY HOURS were spent playing these games with her, and we both sucked (at least she had an excuse) and she would find it hilarious when we would fail over and over again.

As someone who has played endless amounts of the NSMB games (without ever actually enjoying them) I'd say it's a massive difference.

I'm Still not interested in it though. She'd probably love it but she's a cool grown up now, too busy going outside to be playing games xD

Not to derail the comments but are there any parents that can't stand a certain game now because it's all your kid wants to play with you?

A different company making a mario clone using those "new" visuals would be instant killed by most Nintendo fans yet 17% of said Nintendo fans state the changes are "completely different" from the previous game. Sure.
To me, this new game looks very similar to the old one and I think most non gamer persons won't even see a difference.

But maybe I'm biased because I was so disappointed with this Nintendo Direct.
Also, seems to be an unpopular opinion, but I don't like the elephant Mario, at all. Previous "transformations" were more akin to some elaborated suit, leaving Mario's face unaltered.
But with this one, it's just not mario, it's Babar with a mustache. I don't like it at all, almost feels like a disrespect.

From an art style standpoint it looks a lot better.

NSMB games always had good visual quality. But their art style was so bland.

Wonder to me is what NSMB should have looked like.

My first thought was that it definitely feels like NSMB. The style is slightly different, but still very similar, and the music felt very NSMB-like to me.

I think it’s as different as you can get for a side scroller. Most other Nintendo series are like that. Take Kirby, Yoshi, or DK. You get a few games that are visually the same and have very minor differences until there’s suddenly a big style change, but fundamentally it plays the same.

Take Donkey Country Returns. Is it a continuation of the original series or is it a new series along with Tropical Freeze? The answer is yes to both. Wonder is no different, it’s still the next entry in the Super Mario side scrollers, but it’s a bigger leap in style and gameplay than we saw in the “New” series.

I feel like there’s a lot of focus on the visual upgrades. But there’s definitely something to the platforming that has a different tone. I felt like I got some Rayman vibes off of this. Like the “New” series felt like it was just the old 2D Mario games with modern graphics but this feels like they’re actually doing something with the flow of it.

It adds more than the NSMB games did.

At first, I thought it was part of the New Super Mario Bros. series based on the design. I still think that, even though it doesn't have the word "New" in the title. To me, it is a New Super Mario Bros. game in everything but name. It just has more trippy themes to it than previous Super Mario games.

The style, animation and backdrops have more 'life' to them. New always felt a bit by the numbers. It's not day and night like World and Yoshi's Island on SNES, but you can clearly see it's more polished.

Honestly I loved the New Super Mario games, so Wonder looks like a welcome edition. It's looking like the wonderful lighting work done on 3D World is present on Wonder and the overall art style is amazing. The elephant is definitely a nod to the abilities in Odyssey and I hope there are more on the way.

To be brutally honest, not really. The characters are a bit more lively, but other than that, this is really just another NSMB without calling it NSMB. Next time, Nintendo should be a bit more creative with the designs and really try to experiment more, like what Ubisoft did for Rayman in Rayman Origins and Rayman Legends. To be honest, seeing the same character designs and art style again and again can be very tiring after a while.

This is the most stupid poll Nintendo life has done why not wait until the game is out before judging it have you never heard the saying not to judge a book by its cover the same applies here

I agree with those who say it looks like an evolution of NSMB, but at this moment in my life, I'm in dire need of comfort food, and a familiar face with a facelift feels like something I could use right now.

It’s hard to pinpoint, but to me it does feel like a very different approach. They seem to have blurred the previously rigid boundaries between player / camera / playfield / characters / cutscenes and so on. As if the game became self-aware and started communicating (like the new talking flowers, commenting on the game from a viewpoint halfway between in-game and player).

Graphics are not completely different from “New” games, but there was always going to be continuity.

It is different enough. It looks considerably more inventive, the art style is different and it's much more animated. It's like comparing the old and new Donkey Kong games. For many it's the same but with better graphics because there's donkey kong and he's jumping in 2D, but for many others that are more perceptive they'll notice how the gameplay is considerably different from stuff like physics to level design even within two games from the same franchise and same genre.

Impossible to know for sure until we play but the physics seemed different from the NSMB series. That's a positive for me if so, I always thought the feel of those games was a bit off.

I think it'll be fun enough, but to call it some grand new evolution of 2D Mario is a tremendous stretch. Nothing wrong with it though. Every new generation should get to experience their own 2D Mario, and it'll be new to someone, which is fine. I doubt they're going to do too much to make the game 'physically' handle differently than past 2D Marios, so it'll be worth getting, at any rate. Plus, playable Daisy, that's nice.

The animations and colors are nice and good to see. And I appreciate the concept of the game is all about surprising the player, which is great.

On the flip side, it feels like it's only halfway there visually. I think the general lighting and style are still too plastic-generic. And the tile-based environments still look pretty flat and non-dynamic compared to things like DKC:Tropical Freeze and Rayman Legends, which had much more organic-looking areas.

Not even close to be mistaken for a “New” title 😤. Cant understand how this is a topic

Naw, I think it's a nice fresh take on something that's getting stale.

The "New" title was silly enough anyway and they really oughta have just dropped it in the first place after the DS game, at least that one was the first 2D Super Mario Bros game in a long time.

Mario Wonder itself looks great, the three things that did tie the "new series" together was the recycled music, multiplayer and how incredibly generic they all were. I'm very glad to see Nintendo's trying to do something a bit more interesting with the series.

No more obnoxious “wah!” In the music. All that matters.

It looks different enough for me to warrant the dropping of the “New” finally.
I also never got the hatred for that particular section of the series, U in particular was amazing from a gameplay standpoint.
For me the only low point was NSMB2 because the gimmick felt undercooked.

I'm not entirely sure just how different a 2D Mario can be. It's Mario.

Short of replacing the models and voices with the movie ones there isn't anything they can do to make a 2D Mario that much different. It's all presentation.

I loved what i saw. I only hope it has some story telling in it. (Cutscenes)

It looks like it builds off of nsmb in a good way.
They still doing the “bom bah bah” in the music so it kinda feels samesy

@Taro I hope that music's just for the first level and they change it. But yeah Nsmb is a good series overall, even 3ds has redeeming qualities.

It's NSMB with a new lick of paint. Not a bad thing. They couldn't keep using "new" forever could they?

It’s definitely an evolution of the New series, it’s nothing groundbreaking on any level, I was kind of hoping to see levels like Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze where the perspective is changed somewhat, giving a 2.3D effect, I think that game spoilt other 2D games for me as it still looks absolutely incredible, even the level design is well thought of, how you go from a fruit juicing level to a frozen ice pops factory level, and how the foreground interacts with your path in the game, there’s some great ideas there, and it’s a game that’s 9 years old.

I’ll have to see the finished game when it’s out in October which I’m sure will be a lot of fun

I'm hoping this will be a lot better that new super Mario bros series (wii. Wiiu. 3ds) did not like them at all with bad game play a terable visuals.
I think I will wait a bit before getting it just incase is just as bad.

It reminds me a lot of the 2D sections in Mario + Luigi, more specifically Dream Team.
Don't like the text with the combos as it looks distracting and I don't get the flowers.
I also hope there's more characters to come.
But it looks good..... And it should've been called Super Mario Wonderland

I never liked the New series.
It's the first time since the SNES that I am genuinely interested in a 2D Mario. It looks a lot more fun and didn't have that generic "just another New super mario" feeling.

Can they please please please change the voice of that flower thing? It sounds so, so wrong for Mario

I'm kinda upset the didn't add Blue Toad and chose Yellow Toad instead... the traditional player 4 has always been Blue Toad since NES, but i guess they did the same in NSMBU Deluxe so I shouldn't be surprised at this point... I wonder why Toadette wasn't added though?? At least we got Princess Daisy now which is really cool.

I definitely think it’s from the same lineage as the New games but after such a long break (and assuming it’s the same team) I think they’ve perhaps taken the criticisms of the previous games being too unadventurous to heart.

If this plays as well as Super Luigi U I’ll be extremely happy.

I mean you can still see the roots of NSMB in this game, but it does seem to be something very new and different, so I would say so.

There SHOULD be some similarities between New and Wonder. If you make a 2D Mario Game, part of your goal is to get back to Mario's roots.

Little details and puzzles I spotted during the trailer though tells me that this is going to be to New Super Mario Bros what Odyssey was to Mario 64. That's probably overly-optimistic, but I have a good feeling about this new direction.

Mostly, I'm just glad there's a title that won't confuse eBay. STOP USING "NEW," NINTENDO! It won't always be true!

I really don't understand the hate for the NSMB series.

On a separate note, with this and Sonic Superstars, this will be great year for classic 2D platformers.

I think it looks similar but just because it should. All Mario games imitate Super Mario Bros. 1 on the NES (except for spinoffs like Mario Clash, which imitated from Mario Bros.), especially the 2d games. If it strays too far from that, it will stop being a Mario game. Where that line is drawn is anyone's guess, so it gets more divisive the further away it gets from the source material.

But another thing is that the series has always moved forward. Like that flower at the beginning of the video said. They don't start from scratch each game, they build off each other. We wouldn't have Yoshi if they didn't continue off from a previous game, nor Mario Maker.

It’s an evolution, not a revolution - and that’s perfectly fine.

The “New” series never felt like it really tried over the 4 sequels and it came across as the same game but with recycled elements. Add to that that the bland artstyle (which is odd for Nintendo) was uninspired and (despite the excellent platforming) it’s no wonder many veterans were turned off.

The Mario Maker spin-offs were an excellent experiment, but still not quite what the core audience were after.

Wonder seems to (FINALLY) iterate on where the New series began and feels like an actual sequel. This should have been what came next after New Super Mario Bros / Wii were done really.

It took a while, but they got there and I can’t wait. We’re being spoilt with this and Sonic Superstars in the fall, what a time to be alive if you love your classic 2D platformers.

I like that the game seems to expand on the trippy, world bending effects they introduced in Yoshi's Island.

Norman got his pictures mixed up.

Anyways, it's night and day.

At first glance one might see bright, colorful 2D Mario and think it looks similar, but one only need watch the full trailer to see this is a gargantuan leap away from NSMBU.

Let's be clear. The issue with NSMBU was threefold: 1) the clinical corporate visuals and 2) the fact 4 games released re-using said clinical corporate visuals, 3) the lack of creativity

Right off the bat, this game is not re-using the New visuals, so two major points of contention are immediately addressed. Furthermore, the game oozes with creativity and charm, perhaps more so than any other Mario game we've seen to date.

From the lavish animations completely reworked, to the insane LSD trip stage design, to dynamic backgrounds and environments, to the insane variety of gameplay mechanics on display, this game puts past 2D Mario entries to utter shame.

This is the true sequel to Super Mario World we've been waiting 30 years for. Every single 2D Mario, from Super Mario Bros, Super Mario Bros 2, Super Mario Bros 3 and Super Mario World were both different and toyed with experimental new designs and gameplay concepts. The New series was quality, make no mistake, but repeating it 4 times really wore thin. And it didn't really offer anything new, mechanically speaking.

This is the true sequel to Super Mario World. And I'm there for it.

Might wanna swap the images to fit the description!

If you were to show a random person NSMBU and SMBW, would they say they're the same series? While I feel the some people might say that they are, I also think that those people are missing the point.
Frankly, some people are only viewing SMBW at face value, and not really stopping to see what makes it tick.
The way the character are so expressive, how everything is more alive and charming, how the game is trying something new, and not just sticking with what works.
SMBW may have some similarity with the New series, but that's not all SMBW is, it's so much more than that.
SMBW isn't part of the series, that I can assure from you.

The animation looks good and seems to have a lot of personality.

I’d like to see the wonder seeds unlock levels off of the main path and a substantial amount of them or some other variations on levels or something and aren’t just a bland collectible.

I would love if they did away with “lives”, but it looks like they are still there. Hopefully it at least saves after each level and not only at castles like NSMBU.

Maybe it is just me, but I am over flag poles as the exit. Why not use the SMW style or the SMB3 style or a new style? This won’t change and isn’t a bit deal though.

To me, Mario's new style kinda looks like a mix of NSMB, the clay version from the first/last Nintendo Power cover, and the modern "classic sonic" look, with a bit of mobile game thrown in. I have some mixed feelings, honestly, but if it means they're more willing to mix things up on the gameplay side, then I'll gladly accept the new visuals despite my reservations.

@LexKitteh
From what I remember, Mario runs with his arms behind him in the super Mario world

Let’s be honest here. It’s filler. Created by a small team to have something for Xmas. It will sell well, but it’s nowt new.

All their big teams are rather obviously working on the new console (whatever it may be).. this is end of console life stuff.

The "New"-style always had a McDonald's toys look to it (the best way I can describe it) and was never a fan, this looks better.

To me, it's completely different. In that, everyone noticed the differences right away. The old... er I mean "new" Super Mario Bros. style definitely was getting stale, and this is exactly what they needed to do to freshen it up.

I noticed that the Idle animation for Mario is similar to the 'New' games in the way he moves his arms.

Other than that, these character designs seem to pull a lot from the original 2d art for the series with more vibrant colors, shading, and personality. If Mario looks this fun, I would like to see comparisons for the other playable characters

I actually love the first New game. Only that one though. It started looking like a tile set for me even before Maker.

I'm just not feeling Wonder. It looks like some fan-made project where they don't really get the elements that truly make the best 2D/2.5D Super Mario Bros. games so great. And visually it's just as meh as all the previous "New" Super Mario Bros. games. All the designs and stuff just look off, and it's a shame that not only can most people in here not see that, but worse that the people actually making the game can't see it either. It's like the difference between the classic and best Pixar animations and the weird looking stuff with niche appeal they're dumping out now, and this game is like the modern-day Nintendo equivalent of that compared to the classic and best 2D Super Mario Bros. games. Or, you know how Sonic games just moved further and further away from the classic Sonic look and feel and just ended up being facsimiles that only noobs mistake for genuinely classic Sonic games--other than Sonic Mania, which really did look and feel like a proper Sonic game again--well, that's this Super Mario Bros. game imo. This just is not working for me.

Thank God for the sublime movie that got everything about the look and feel spot on, because if this is where the 2D/2.5D Super Mario Bros. games are at, I'm gonna have to just enjoy rewatching the movie instead for the foreseeable future.

@RareFan...you sure you mean "millennial?" Besides that being an extremely ignorant thing to say, millennials are people born from 1981-1996.

I liked the New Super Mario Bros Wii game a lot. Not so much the Deluxe Wii U one on Switch, but it was "okay".

This looks really good and different though. Yes the art is beauitful and it's a great new direction for the artstyles but the way they use the gimmicks look really different too. It's a bit more wild but in a good way. I'd say they're mostly similar gimmicks, and gameplay, to the New series, but the way they were handled in the trailer is very different. As long as it plays well, I'd say it's very different but not quite fully different. I'm still happy to vote for it being completely different, as between the top two options, it looks somewhat completely different to me, and in part on the gameplay side of things I think it also is, just slighly not quite fully at the same time.

It looks creative to me and really nice but I am assuming in advance that the gameplay I saw in the trailer is how it is. So I can't be certain until it's out or else there is more footage and information. But seems that way from the first trailer.

As for the artstyle, that did surprise me and it was the first thing I saw. Definitely like the looks of that.

I’ve literally never been disappointed in a Mario 2D platformer, and that includes every “New” iteration. But this feels off somehow, like the levels seemed to be barren with no enemies and hardly any actual platforming? I know it’s too early to judge it based on the trailer, but I honestly thought it wasn’t a mainline Mario game. More like a racing/endless runner type multiplayer game? I just don’t know what to make of it! Maybe it’ll make sense down the line..

To me it sounds like a new voice actor for Mario, At times it sounds a bit like Mickey Mouse.

I could be wrong..

It's just a buzzword to catch simple folks attention. When NY eventually crumbles and is rebuilt we will call it New New York.

@Gerudo_Guy it's because as people in general got dumber, they had to dumb games down as well. It really does look like a mindless autorunner instead of something that required skill, which was lost after SMB3.

Mario holding his cap with only his nose out is the something we haven't seem for a long time in 2D Mario, lovely stuff! Wonder gives cartoon vibes, which is excellent.

What still feels odd about the game art for me is that they rotated all the characters a few degrees, so they all look like weirdos facing one direction and running to another.

@Chibi_Manny The box art has a Goomba with a Blue Toad looking hat on it. Seems to me as though Blue Toad is present based on that.

@Gerudo_Guy I think a large portion of what we saw (the water pipes area) was near or at the beginning of the game. That whole first Wonder Seed section with the pipes had no sections where you could even fall off the edge. The world map had a difficulty level indicator when hovering over a level, so the levels at least probably get more difficult. I wouldn't expect anything super hard though.

@JaxonH You've articulated my feelings on this perfectly. I am entirely in.

@Clammy If it was actually filler, they wouldn't have bothered updating the visuals. It'd just be NSMB Switch.

@RetroGames You're the second person I've seen say this looks like a fan game and that seriously just baffles me. I just can't fathom looking at these charming animations and character designs and backgrounds and thinking "who made this, Luigi_Luvr2002?".

I really hated NSMB style, so uninspiring, so corporate and cookie-cutter looking. Just merely sufficient.

Mario bros wonder is different, you can see they put a lot of effort to bring the charm back to the games, the little animation details, the quality of the rendering, it gives the game that 'magic' feel that was in super Mario world and all the other great Mario games.

People weren't tired of 2D Mario, they were tired of how 2D Mario became stagnated.

I don't need the next 2D Mario to reinvent gaming or anything, a new art style and more energetic level design helps a lot.

No, it's not an updated version of the new series. This is an original version with its own personality.

It's funny a new 2D Mario game gets this question, but the 3D ones can be just as bad. Odyssey didn't deviate much from the Mario 64 path, IMO (if anything went backwards).

2D Mario, I don't care a whole lot about the animation, art style, lighting....I just want a fun platformer. Mario3/SMW were the pinnacle, with inventive levels.
Even still, revisiting old ideas could be a fresh coat of paint for 2D Mario. Mario 2 USA is something they could revisit, with those mechanics returning. Wart would be a nice change up from Bowser too and those other enemies and bosses we've never seen again since. I mean, I know it wasn't originally a Mario game, but even still it'd be cool to go back to that and shake up Mario a bit again.

@KingDunsparce Good observation! Yea I certainly hope the difficulty is there as it has been in the later levels in most of the 2D games, especially those post game bonus levels! I just hope Nintendo is keeping a lot of the level designs secret for now and doesn’t want to show their hand straight away.

The New Super Mario Bros. games get too much hate. The two big achievements of that subseries are incorporating 3D Mario's moveset into 2D and adding coop to Mario for the first time. They're fun games even if a bit uninspired.

Super Mario Bros. Wonder, on the other hand, looks to be the most experimental 2D Mario since the Super Mario Land games. I'm loving all of the wacky new enemies like those purple hippos that roll into balls, and the use of more varied backgrounds plus being in the dark in some levels. It reminds me of Yoshi's Island and Donkey Kong Country.

I’m going to get it but there was no real “wow” factor for me. Very modest upgrade IMO.

Wait what? I am so confused... is Mario on acid? I wonder what the age ratings will be

With the Super Mario Bros. movie already released to the public, perhaps this is the beginning of Nintendo’s vision for the future with SMBW. There appears to be some hints of converging between film and the games, in terms of animation and voice work such as talking flowers.

The art style is not THAT much of a departure, and it is the gameplay that needs a refresh. In my opinion, this is two steps back after the Mario Maker games. Hell, even Mario 35 had more spark than this, it felt fresh. The formula needs a bigger twist. For me, anyways.

Getting it… that’s all I have to say.

So glad to see some charm and personality back in 2D Mario.

Kinda disappointed that the title wasn't Extra New Super Mario Bros U Deluxe Wonder (To The 5th Power).

@RetroGames: To be honest, a part of me honestly still worries that Nintendo will one day cash in and bring it full circle towards making Super Mario Bros: The Movie: The Game XD

I think honestly though with the visuals that whilst Wonder isn’t too far off from NSMB, it still feels like there is a more direct abstract style applied here to set it apart in a positive way.

So I’m a little confused as to how you see this as straying (too) far from the Mario formula or saying it’s odd that others don’t see this, or that it’s Nintendo taking it in the wrong direction. I’d argue the opposite, as previously Nintendo weren’t being creative enough.

Wonder feels about as on point for the Mario series as it can get in terms of general wackiness and absurdity, especially with that dose of magical/weird power ups and visual or musical elements mixed with creative level design.

I feel that every Mario game (except for NSMB) pushes that envelope further and further, and to me Wonder seems like a return to form here.

As much as I have perfectly average feelings about the movie, it could certainly adapt Wonder into its style guide of references for the sequels and I would easily accept it as yet another element of the Mario universe.

It might be different strokes for different folks of course, but I also reckon because we have so much “new” here (finally, and ironically), that we just might not be used to it coming from the 2D side scrolling series to appreciate this yet 🙂

It’s the extra attention to animation and the little expressions , a ton of little things just looks way more alive less ridged nsmb was awesome but it’s been the same style from ds to wii to 3ds and wiiu and switch not counting switch that’s 4 generations same style mainly just a hd touch up obviously it’s more complicated than that but this feels new with a ton of added character with all those little expressions he was making, looks great just enough of a change to make it interesting without straying to far from previous as it should be, and now a new style for the next Mario maker and ton of new stages and items

This Super Mario Bros. 4

Mark my words they will admit it one day

@Bret : Oh come on.. refreshing visuals like this was a major thing on the SNES due to hardware constraints.. On Switch, it'd take a hand full of artists.. max.

Do you REALLY think this thing has the same sized dev team as (for example) odyssey? or even 1/10th of pikmin 4s team?

@Arminillo : Mark my words.. in 5 years, you'll look back and go "meh - yeah, that was filler before new console".

new super mario bros is just copy and paste of the wii version in just higher res.

"It looks about the same to me,except with a touch fuzzy/flipping element. Dunno what elephant Mario is all about."

lol you should probably get your prescription checked, because the wii u could never display the same kind of visual vibrant graphics that this game has.

Completely different. Looks way better, and much more fun and innovative.

One single example [of many] of why I just don't like the look of this game is the way small Mario looks. It literally comes across like they just took the normal size Mario model and squashed him down vertically to around half his height, and he looks way too wide and weirdly proportioned as a result. It doesn't look like deliberate skillful design but lazy and amateur design to me. I much prefer the small Mario proportions of basically every 2D/2.5D Mario game prior to this. And, while I appreciate they've added some interesting new poses and facial expressions now, it simply doesn't cover up the fact Mario just looks wrong in small form here. And that's just one little example that goes to what I'm seeing across this game in various ways, where it simply does not look right and doesn't come across like the artists truly get great art and character design and so on. This is sub-par as far as I'm concerned, and I worry about future Mario games if the people making them can't get this kind of basic but essential stuff right and are going to be happy with this level of poor art and design execution going forward. Nintendo at its peak in the '90s would never have let this pass if it were some new SNES Super Mario Bros. game for example, and the same really should be true here, but it clearly isn't. I am not impressed.

This looks like what the past few NSMB games should have been!

I mean, they were all fun (with U's challenge mode being especially compelling), but the visual style and level themes were getting really stale. (Oh, gee, world 2 is a desert? What a surprise.)

@somnambulance I think the NSMB games are all great in themselves (well, three of them- I haven't gotten around to NSMB2 just yet). The heavy-feeling controls take some getting used to, but there are some clever and fun level designs across the series, and the challenge mode in NSMBU is surprisingly addictive.

The issue is mainly the stale presentation: all four games have the same old plastic graphics, the same non-existent storyline, the same tired level theme tropes (grassland, desert, seaside, etc.)... it felt like Nintendo just released the same game four times in six years.

You could take any one of these games, and it'd be great on its own. It was most likely the rapid-fire release schedule and near-total lack of innovation that left a bad taste in people's mouths.

This one actually has a unique core gameplay in it, which sets it apart from the New series. I think that intrigues me the most

@RetroGames I can see what you're saying - with small Mario at least. This "squished" version has regrettably been a staple in all the "New" range of titles as well as the 3D Lands/Worlds and is quite bizarre, so it's nothing new... but that's not to say they couldn't have changed things up a little here either.

With Sprites... I think it's easier to get away with some less detailed changes that represent him (changing the eyes for example). I would certainly think Nintendo experimented with similar ideas (but then you also don't want to venture to far into him looking close to Paper Mario).

If you just had regular proportioned Mario (but smaller) that wouldn't look right either, so I don't know what the correct answer is to this in making him look "right".

......hmm, no. Actually, thinking about it now, it isn't about making him look 'correct' in small form - Nintendo actually have always had this design right.

So, for example... in the movie the "regular" looking Mario was just smaller Mario anyway - they just had a mushroom balloon him to literally double in size - the translation works there for the audience to understand when watching a film as then he changes back afterwards to "normal size" like the rest of the characters of the world.

This is opposite to how it works in the games.

The visual language and design is different for 2D and (not all) 3D Mario games, because in these "Regular Mario" IS represented by him being powered up with a mushroom - not when he's smaller.

For the player to understand or want to reach for Mario looking like "Normal" Mario (instead of a weird squishy looking dude), the small design is actually entirely appropriate and quite clever because you're then working towards getting Mario to "look like himself". This doubles as teaching the player that Mario has a second hit point when he's "powered up" and there's the encouragement to try and remain safe with 2 hit points.

The rest of the art design and palette? I can't really playfight you on if you don't like it - that just your preference.

Personally, I still wish they pushed the boat even further or out to a cartoon / cel shaded aesthetic like WarioLand: The Shake Dimension... buuuut I'll take the goofy vibrancy here.

I'm more excited for mario RPG. Don't feel excited for wonder, looks average, to me anyways.
Final release could surprise and be a killer game, that's always a possibility.
But I'm finding there's too much hype with major nintendo titles as of late, and that can affect scores and sales.
Finished totk and thought it was a good game, but not as some reviews suggested.
I still prefer botw and it's simplicity over totk

Slightly-evolved version of the New Super Mario Bros. games, regardless of the name.

Graphics, music, gameplay, general feel, even the box art: all of it pretty much what I'd expect from a Switch-original NSMB, and that's fine by me, those games may not be as good as the classic 2D Mario games, but I wouldn't call them bad, in fact, I'd say they're above-average sidescrollers. I'm not thrilled about this game, but I still want to play it.

No matter how one feels about the NSMB games, I think the differences are minimal, and the similarities undeniable.

Wonder is a departure from Super Mario Bros. altogether.

As every other Mario Bros. game can now be made in Mario Maker, it seems clear to me that Nintendo were conscious of this and tried to do things that people couldn't create themselves.

For me this desperation makes it look like a fairly charmless and incoherent whole.

Good for the people excited about it, but don't think it's going to be for me.

@Uncle_Franklin

"For me this desperation makes it look like a fairly charmless and incoherent whole."

Yup, I can tell you're seeing and feeling what I'm seeing and feeling too.

Some people clearly don't get it--they're probably better off for that ultimately--but it's absolutely there.

This is not true peak 2D/2.5D Mario, of that I am absolutely certain.

The 3-quarter perspective of the characters, whether they're standing still or moving, adds so much to visuals. It doesn't seem like it should, but it really does!

After 14 years of seeing Mario mostly from a rigid, side angle perspective, seeing both of his eyes, both hands, and both suspenders, regardless of what he's doing, is a revelation. Notably, SMB2 (US), SMB3 and World all depicted Mario in a three-quester perspective, so it instantly recalls those games for me.

Plus, as a NL editor pointed out, the characters legit look like how they looked on box art and game manuals of the 8 and 16 bit eras of Mario, which really appeals to me as someone who grew up in the 80s. I love it!

New art style, more expression, new music, new playable characters, and much more imaginative looking levels. I've never been so hyped for a 2D Mario game in my life!

Sure there are some new powers and as usual new level design and polish, but this just looks like New Super Mario Bros. 6.

So no, this is not different enough.

In addition, Nintendo really needs to change the art style, it's long overdue. Mario Bros., Mario Bros. 2, Mario Bros. 3, and Super Mario World had drastic visual changes in addition to new mechanics that made each game look and feel fresh.

NSMB, NSMB Wii, NSMB2, NSMB U, New Super Luigi U, and even Mario Run all use the same visual style just with different levels of graphical fidelity. It's past time to use a new look.

This game is an easy pass. I'd rather have Mario Odyssey DLC.

@larryisaman

Rayman Origins and Legends are stunningly beautiful games. I really wish Nintendo would drastically change the art style of the 2D Mario games.

(TLDR) Why would it be a departure? It's still Mario platforming with friends (trolls).

I would like to be the first to say that I think "Wonder" is going to be the name of the switch successor. This game is getting released late enough in 2023 that it could be one of those games that bridges both systems. Much like Zelda BOTW did.

It looked fairly similar to the New games while watching the direct on my phone at work. When I got home and watched it on my 60 inch Samsung, it looked absolutely stunning. Let’s Go!

Looks good (but not a game changer), definitely interested when it goes on sale. Full $66 price (including tax) seems too much for a 2D Mario game these days.

It's completely different, but it's still a Super Mario Bros. game, so you know you are going to expect some Mario characters (which do look different) and 2D Mario like stages (also looking different) and some Mario like music (which obviously ALSO sounds different)

And everything just falls into place, and it is looking like an AMAZING 2D Mario experience.

But what were you guys expecting for a Mario game? That they completely redesign it? Really? And how would it have looked if they did that?

“Is Wonder different than the New Mario Bros. games?”

Short answer, yes.
Long answer, yeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssss.

Does Wonder actually use traditional 3d models for Mario akin to NSMB?

I'll admit I've not gone and rewatched the clip closely, but my first impression was that it looked like incredibly high quality flash animation.

Not sure what more can be done with the 2D Mario format, gameplay-wise. Visually this looks very lovely and is clearly a step up from the rather bland style of the "New" series.

@Uncle_Franklin That's actually a smart point made - Super Mario Maker/2 essentially eliminates the requirement for any more New Super Mario Bros titles from Nintendo.

I actually find it very interesting how a few see Wonder as inconsistent or uncharming. I wonder (ha) why that is beyond the personal taste?

My original impression when watching the trailer was that this is an "expressionist" take on the NSMB series' blander art-style. It also has quite a lot in common with some of the wackier Kingdoms from Odyssey.

But really, to say Mario now has an incoherent looking visual design falls in line with what Mario's been about for over 35 years. Pieces of land float in the sky, sometimes the world looks like a playstage, Mario can zip through planets and galaxies, and (most) Kingdoms on his homeworld all have different distinct vibes. The Flower Kingdom in SMB Wonder is no different to any of that really.

It could be possible that the over saturation of NSMB titles have altered peoples perspective on what Mario should be? That was after all a long stretch of sequels where everything was weirdly the same.

A little early to tell at this stage, but it’s looks like it will be.

It’s not a huge departure imo, but it does look really good.

@Clammy When the hell did I say that it's got the same size dev team as anything? All I said was it's not filler, and that if it was they would've just made another game in the NSMB series.

@Uncle_Franklin "As every other Mario Bros. game can now be made in Mario Maker,"

LMAO that's not even close to true. This suggests you haven't even played most of the recent 2D Marios. Hidden paths? Rotating platforms? Any sort of single-stage gimmick? All impossible in Mario Maker.

@Arminillo Why would Super Mario World not be Super Mario Bros. 4?

Whether or not, for me the art style and the small new animations, and looks of the level layout is enough for me. Havent played a New Super Mario Bros game since the Wii

It's going to to feel similar. It's a 2D Mario game after all.

I think the biggest improvement is the new animations. As mentioned, it has tons more personality than the previous NEW games, and has the kind of expressiveness and variety that hasn't been seen since Mario World.

Remember in Mario World when you could crouch as regular Mario, or look up? Remember looking up? I loved looking up!

Wonder has personality, which is what was sorely lacking in the NEW games.

Another big change is the 3/4 turn that Mario has in his pose now, as opposed to the profile stance he mostly used in the NEW games. It takes some getting used to but it allows for more expressiveness in the face.

Beyond that, the rest is just a needed update to the overall coat of paint. The "wonder" gimmick is just that, and it will need to be played before anyone can really judge it.

That music is definitely a remix of a previous Mario game, but I can't place it. I can hum it. I know it. But I don't remember which one it is.

@Bret “ that if it was they would've just made another game in the NSMB series.”

They did. They just changed the name.

@Clammy And the vibe. And the non-core mechanics. And the entire art style, from character design to animation.

If it makes you happy feeling that way and you’re willing to pay full price for it.. good for you,

It’s still obviously filler though

@Clammy There's nothing "obvious" about it aside from you having obviously dug your heels in. We will get nowhere by continuing to talk about it.

@JohnnyMind That is a good point about the flag poles being better for multiplayer. I agree also that it makes sense that the flag poles are too iconic now to be replaced.

@Clammy

You are probably right about the second part - they are definitely working on a new console, as they always start the next one years in advance, but this game looks like they put good effort into it and are willing to shake up the formula a bit.

@CharlieGirl many animations look straight out of the 8- and 16-bit games

@DiamondCore

This art style still looks like New Super Mario Bros. to me. Not different enough, just more technically impressive.

I think 2D Mario needs a more drastic art style change, but in the end my opinion is irrelevant. I haven't enjoyed a 2D Mario in a long time anyway.

Just dropping in to give props to the "Out with the 'new'" subtitle of this article. Props !