Let's get this out of the way, first: Pokémon Legends: Arceus is, canonically, a mainline Pokémon game. Serebii master Joe Merrick confirmed as much late last year:
As he puts it in another tweet, "it is not a spin-off... It's no more a spin-off than Super Mario Galaxy is to Super Mario World."
He's right, technically. But it does raise the question: What exactly is Legends in relation to the usual Pokémon series games? A sequel? An evolution? A reinvention? A thing that really doesn't matter, can't we just enjoy things without putting them into boxes? Are labels even necessary? Is it not a slippery slope to use genre as a prescriptivist treatment of video games that only serve to keep us tethered to the limits of concepts expressible in words?
Woof, got a bit off-topic there. Look, my point is that Pokémon Legends: Arceus is new, and it's a big change from what we're used to, so it feels weird to call it a Pokémon game when it's so markedly different. But that's part of what makes it so good.
And despite its stated position in the mainline Pokémon firmament, its English title arguably suggests (at least as interpreted by more than one member of Team NL) that it's part of a new 'Pokémon Legends' branch of the series, this being the 'Arceus' edition. A name is just a name, of course, and no doubt The Pokémon Company was hedging its bets title-wise in case Arceus turned out to be a mainline misstep.
Merrick's comparison of Legends to Super Mario Galaxy is a great example: By taking the Super Mario platforming into a literal whole new dimension, Galaxy changed what Mario games could be. Likewise, Breath of the Wild reinvented a game series that had arguably become a bit stale and stagnant, with new mechanics and new world types to challenge our ideas of what a Zelda game could be.
These huge dynasties of games have so many tropes, characters, and legends that can be somewhat limiting — like Bowser/Peach, Ganon/Zelda, and in the case of Pokémon, the entire plot, going from gym to gym, catching new Pokémon, training them up, and eventually beating the Pokémon League — but all it takes sometimes is going back to the drawing board. Pokémon Legends: Arceus is a strange one, still, because even Breath of the Wild and Super Mario Galaxy still kept a lot of their series' formula, but it's good to know that new and different isn't always automatically bad.
But what do you think? What do you consider Pokémon Legends: Arceus to be within the Pokémon series? Vote in this poll and talk to us about it in the comments!
Further reading:
Comments 90
Since GF calls it one, I do. It really isn't serious enough for me to analyze it further so I don't bother.
I mean, yeah. If that's the official consideration for it, then that's what it is.
It seems like one to me but to each their own, I suppose. As long as the game is fun I’m happy with whatever it’s considered.
To be honest I see it as a sort of sub-series.
Well, PLA still has the traditional battles of the previous games so technically yes, it's a mainline game. Who knows, if this game becomes successful enough, Gamefreak may consider continuing the Legends and become its own series of games
Its not. Thats why it is "Legends". Its a new side series
Removed - unconstructive
Well at first I thought the game was a spinoff then saw some of the combat is it still looks pretty traditional, they're just shaking up the formula a bit. Not to mention the Gamefreak themselves consider it a mainline game so I guess i's not up for debate.
Just because a game doesn't something different from the series doesn't make it any less mainline. I saw the same discussion and arguments when Monster Hunter World released before Capcom confirmed themselves that it's Monster Hunter 5, aka a mainline game.
I see it as similar to how Metroid and Metroid Prime are both mainline Metroid franchises.
@Grumblevolcano Exactly! I was thinking the same thing. They're technically different series, but they're both mainline series.
Like with anything, if it does well and fans like it, it becomes a main series. If it misses and doesn't, it was a side story.
I think this will depend on how well this game does. If it bombs then don't expect GF to continue with Legends.
Although GF really doesn't seem to care
Somewhere in between those weird home console RPG-lite games for Gamecube (Colosseum and XD), and a mainline game.
If the adventures of link and BOTW can both be mainline zelda games then I don't see why not.
If GameFreak considers it a mainline title that's good enough for me
I see it more as a different series of games, like@Grumblevolcano said, its a mainline series entry, but two different gameplay styles.
In my opinion terms like "generation" "mainline game" and others are oudated based on how the pokemon fandom uses them... So broad an meaningless yet so specific and exclusive similtaniously
To me the gameplay seems like an evolved mainline title, although the "Legends" addendum in the name seems to suggest that it's a spin-off.
Maybe they only present it as a spinoff to test the waters with the new formula, and if it's well accepted by the fanbase, "Legends" will be merged into the mainline series.
Not sure why there's even debate about this but yes I consider it part of the main series. Like how Mario 64 and Super Mario World are part of the same series even though they're different in the way they play and structure.
A mainline title for me keeps the original core mechanics and introduces a new gen, so no I'd class this as a spin off
If the devs say it's mainline, then it's a mainline.
All mainline means is that it’s canon. Being a main series game doesn’t stop it from being a spin-off.
So yes by the definition of spin off, it is a main series spin-off.
Franchise is so big who even cares. Are there spin-off Disney movies?
Question: How many arceus articles can we write this week?
Answer: yes
😉
In all seriousness. Who knows, I'm just excited.
I feel like this is a spin-off. It’s not a new game, it’s not a remaster, it has drastically different mechanics. Also, the fact that the title is Pokémon Legends implies that there will be more Pokémon Legends games with other legendary Pokémon. Maybe we can get a Pokémon Legends: Magikarp down the line?
Glad they changed the formula for Pokemon.
Meanwhile for Breath of the Wild they didn't really reinvented anything, they mostly took all those open world mechanics from other games like Far Cry with the same mechanics and got rid of many staple of the series in favor of an empty open world with barely any variety in enemies compared to old games. It's more a sandbox game than anything Zelda related.
Legends Arceus at least kept what made it Pokemon by changing the whole ad nauseum usage of same evil team doing bad things because they are evil and the whole Pokemon League stuff. It focus more on the core of the series which is exploring the world and capturing Pokemon.
I would say it’s an experimental new way forward for the franchise. Using a smaller title (in some ways) to blue print for a much bigger title in the future.
Assuming Arceus comes close to traditional mainline entry sales, I think the next big installment will continue from Arceus and Gamefreak will retire the classic franchise. And it’ll take the formula established in Arceus and go absolutely nuts with it.
I can’t consider Arceus a mainline entry because it lacks competitive multiplayer. I think that is where the next installment, which will have the same gameplay loop as Arceus, will make its name as the replacement for traditional Pokémon.
It doesn't really matter what we consider it to be, the thing is that the title is getting rave reviews, and if it's financially successful too, which I don't see why it wouldn't be, it will automatically become mainline for GameFreak themselves. Or, if you prefer, it will mean that the next mainline Pokemon game will be more like this and less like Sword and Shield.
Another scenario would be that some other studio will be handling the regular Pokemon games and they will remain traditional and smaller in scope, while GameFreak focuses on this new direction. They didn't add all these features to their engine just to make a one-off title, they had the next few iterations in mind.
The Devs called it a mainline game. So your opinion doesn't matter to much.
As long as I enjoy the game (which I usually do when it comes to Pokémon), it doesn't matter if it's a mainline game or a spinoff.
The fact that there's only one version is one of my favorite parts 😂
@TheRedComet There's no way Game Freak will completely get rid of the standard Pokemon formula. It's a proven formula that works and is almost guaranteed success. I can see them doing a series of games based on the Legends: Arceus formula, but there's no way it will be the standard formula going forward.
How about you let us play it first before we make that sort of judgement.
Erm...how the heck would any of us know? On face value, it seems to be a very well done side story that could shape the main games if popular.
But dunno.
@JakedaArbok I've been waiting for a "Pokémon Let's Go Magikarp" for sure since 2018.
It's a big spinoff
@Olmectron lol
This is like pokemon platinum after BDSP
@Savage_Joe Yeah. Exactly this.
Its just a title. There are only so many elements in the periodic table that sound exciting enough to name a game after.
I guess in the end, it really only matters what GF says. Joe Merrick says they consider it a mainline game. So it is a mainline game.
If I remember correctly, at one of the initial presentations they mentioned that it was the new direction for pokemon. It was pretty clear that it is a mainline game, it is just that the mainline is changing style (finally).
With "If Game Freak made it then it is a mainline game" as general rule, then yes. The only exceptions to that rule are Pokemon Quest from Game Fream and BDSP from ILCA.
I honestly feel like this is a mainline game for sure as it has all the right ingredients, it's just different enough to standout on it's own. I don't exactly see this as the direction they are always going to take, but I do see them continuing this as a series to go along with the classically aimed titled.
Then again I think the classic formula was really wearing thin, this might be the way forward for the series, and they can just remake some classics for that traditional fanbase.
With BDSP having been made by ILCA, it's fair to say that a mainline game doesn't have to be made by Gamefreak. But personally, insomuch as it actually matters, I still think "Gamefreak only makes mainline games" holds true for now.
It's a Pokemon RPG where you pick a starter, catch pokemon, try to finish a pokedex, and so on. As far as I'm concerned it's a mainline game.
@Grumblevolcano Metroid is my favorite series of all time, And I dont even really care about the 2d metroids at all. I just love the Prime games so much lol
It is 100% a mainline series game.
If the very developers who made it state as such, then that’s final.
By this basis then monster hunter stories 2 is a mainline monster hunter game?
I'd call it mainline anyway
While I respect and understand it is a mainline Pokémon game, and if I were to talk about it on a YT video or an article I would call it a mainline series Pokémon Game, personally, I consider it to be a Spin-off as I personally would look at it that way.
It feels and looks like a mainline game and would’ve had a big development budget, certainly a bigger budget than that ios/android looking game they just released BD/SP. Furthermore the Pokémon company refers to it as a mainline game except the title of the game clearly shows it’s a spin-off otherwise it would’ve been titled Pokémon Arceus. By having a Legends series it makes it a spin-off
I think it's a type of hot dog.
Wonder if they will add multiplayer and a early form of gym story in a dlc?
@UltimateOtaku91 Why would it be? This makes no sense. There is no correlation between Pokémon Legends and Monster Hunter Stories. The latter is clearly a spin-off, and Legends, the developers themselves said it's a mainline game.
Besides, the whole thing is just a convention. The mainline game is whatever has the highest budget and most attention dedicated to it. Case in point, Persona is the main series now and not SMT despite starting as a spin off.
@UltimateOtaku91 based on how different the treated Rise to Stories Im wondering if Stories is above rise in there minds. I mean Stories got a Ton of post launch content and Rise got maybe a couple months and a handful on new monsters. Definitely different then how they did World not that I really liked the schedule system keeping some monsters restricted to when they wanted us to hunt them I like the download and play whenever system but just barely got much extra. Both are still great games…
I consider it a branch off the mainline games, similar to what Mario 64/Sunshine/Galaxy/Odyssey is to Mario or what Metroid Prime is to Metroid. They're main series games, just a different flavor of main series games. And yes, I do think there are more Legends games to come if Legends is a success.
I hope all future games play like this one but a mix of old and new for the story structure and progression. I love how seemless combat is in Arceus.
@Williamfuchs420 Except all the added content combined for Stories is not even half of the content that will be added with Sunbreak. The two games are following a completely different strategy and are made by different teams. Of course Monster Hunter Rise is the mainline game, was there ever any doubt? The sales and budget of the game are on a whole different league than Stories.
Mainline or not, doesn't matter for me.
As long they are playable, that's more than enough.
If a apple is a apple then a orange is a orange
@1UP_MARIO What are you talking about exactly?
I believe it's possible this could become its own separate "series", like the remake series. I'd be very open to the idea, it'd be neat to see other regions in the past, or perhaps even invent new regions based off of ancient civilizations like ancient Greece, Egypt, Mesopotamia.
I haven't played the game (obviously) or paid attention to the leaks, though. It's entirely possible this is just a sole idea for a game based off of Arceus. IDK.
If the series does continue, I fear for the quality of the remake series from here on out. Seeing the poor job that was done on the D/P remakes makes me really sad.
I mean I would put it in the same vain as pokemon XD and Colleseum
@dany88 I mean, it is not in the same vein at all.
I mean it doesn't matter but obviously it's not a mainline game. Each mainline game introduces a new generation of pokemon. Just as Let's Go was its own series (or just a one-off) Legends is obviously also it's own series, hence the "Legends" title. That makes it very clear so there's no question about it.
I think we could see several Legends games in the coming years that basically act as prequel spin-offs, to create a whole Legend series separate from the mainline games. Doing a spin-off like this also allowed them to experiment with a new style of gameplay with less risk than if it was in the mainline series in case it didn't pan out well - though it seems like people are really liking it so very possible the next mainline game will have this sort of gameplay. The main line series will continue with Gen 9 whenever that's ready.
Does it really matter?
It's a prequel series from what I can tell...
If this game succeed (and it looks like it will) gamefreak will pull off an assassin's creed with this series moving forward
@Slownenberg I wouldn't say it's obvious if there's evidence to suggest GF themselves are calling it a main series game. And I'm pretty sure Let's Go are considered mainline games as well.
@blindsquarel In the grand scheme of things, no. But for the sake of the article, it's fun to discuss.
@Grumblevolcano Metroid is a great example. In fact, Metroid is an ironic example, given how the experimental deviation from the series' roots (Metroid Prime) ended up eclipsing the franchise's traditional formula.
Yes. Next question
It's a spin-off. Sure, main line games are called ポケットモンスター (pocket monster) and spin-offs ポケモン (pokemon) in japanese, and yes the website has been calling it the latest entry in the "pocket monster' series.
BUT, mainline games have always been called "pocket monster" in the TITLE, like ポケットモンスター剣・盾 (pocket monster sword/shield), and this is called "Pokémon LEGENDS アルセウス" (pokemon legends arceus).
Joe may be running the biggest english pokemon fansite but legends arceus being a mainline game is nowhere near 100% confirmed by official sources (unless you provide me an interview of Gamefreak saying so).
@Troll_Decimator at a premium price when they gave allot of post release content in both stories and world before it. Ya they are running on a different method basically saving all new content for when we will pay for it. I mean they do deserve to get paid for it it was just always cool to have added monsters cool crossover monsters and higher versions of existing monsters in case of stories. Don’t get me wrong I got rise and will buy sunbreak asap
Game Freak says anything is mainline to try and increase sales, since spin offs have a stigma of being "less than". So just because they say it is, doesn't mean we should be forced to think it is. I mean, hell has to freeze over before I consider the Let's Go titles main line even though Game Freak says they are.
Its def a spin off. But spin offs sometimes can be better than the mainline series like Persona overshadowed shin megami tensei or like Forza Horizon took the lead over Forza Motorsport series
Yes, it is mainline and a evolution to the franchise at the same time, just like breath of the wild. They got Pokémon and took it to a next level. That's how I see it.
What does it matter, as long as the game's good, that should be all that is of any importance.
Yes. More like a prequel, but ya
If Pokemon Legends Arcues isn't a mainline Pokemon game, then the Metroid Prime Trilogy aren't mainline Metroid games.
If it's a genuinely new mainline title, it feels a little too hesitant. Having Diamond and Pearl remakes so recently, focusing so heavily on an existing region and familiar designs (no new starter Pokémon feels weird), having only one version (not all series staples are great)... it all feels engineered so that they can choose what it really is after the fact?
If the market doesn't take to it, it was just an odd experiment in spin-off territory. If it sells on target, this'll be how we do them going forward. Quite why they're releasing in January is anyone's guess though? That aspect of it just screams "someone wants this to fail". Where is the urgency? Why not give it a little extra time to refine it and get it on kid's Christmas lists?
Its a spin-off with 2 purposes:
1: To promote the recent remakes on Switch and nice versa
2: Test the waters for open-world Pokemon's
If this resonates well with anyone who plays it I guess from now on Pokemon games will be open world.
Don't see why it matters, but it's clearly a spin-off. I'm sure they'll go back to the tried and tested formula with gen 9.
Absolutely, not only with this forward direction in game style, but also with a 2nd version of the same game finally getting in the bin. Games are $60 now and paying $120 as an early adopter is a p a i n . Mandatory HM's? get in the bin. Grinding? EXP share solves that, so grinding also gets in the bin.
A little salty but I say overall, the future of pokemon can only improve this way.
Yes but as a prequel.
@MarinoKadame Have you ever played the first Zelda game on NES? Breath of the Wild took ideas from that game first before other open world games.
@Dog As a concept maybe for a huge world but other than that there was no dungeons like the game had or barely any puzzle for secret caves or item unlocks for traversal during the game. It borrows way more from later Open World games like Ubisoft ones.
I say its half mainline half spinoff along the same vain as the let's go games.
If GameFreak or TPC calls it a mainline title then yes. I don't see how the players can decide this sort of thing. It can also be a secondary pillar to their mainline RPGs which doesn't need to be a spin-off. I don't think we need to think about this too seriously though.
I'm not sure the term mainline really matters for Pokemon at this point. It seems to me that what they've done is set up 4 (maybe 5 depending on how you count things) tiers of the kinds of Pokemon games they can make:
-Core next generation installments
-Classic remakes of past core entries
-Let's Go versions of past core entries
-and now the Legends more open world entries
-Arguably there is a 5th tier that kinda encompasses the supplemental releases: 3rd entries, sequels, deluxe versions, and DLC. It sounds like these entries will probably just be DLC now though (unless maybe we see sequels again like Black and White did), so it's a bit harder to count this now as a separate tier.
Point is, the Pokemon Company which is probably at least 3 teams now, and willing to outsource for their remakes as we saw with the gen 4 remakes, probably has a 5 year plan that they can rinse and repeat indefinitely. Hypothetically, this could be what we are looking at:
2023: Let's Go Johto
2024: Gen 9
2025: Gen 9 DLC
2026: Black and White Remakes (wonder if Black 2 and White 2 will also be a part of their inevitable remakes somehow)
2027: Legends: Kyurem (consider Kyurem's name a placeholder here, because I think the title would actually be the name of the unrevealed dragon that eventually split to become Zekrom and Reshiram).
Rinse and repeat. Also, tell me I'm wrong that the next Legends game (if we get one) wouldn't be about that Pokemon, it's so perfect, especially if the game goes hand in hand with gen 5 remakes like this one did with the gen 4 remakes, and because it takes place in the past, the timing works to reveal what that Pokemon that split in two was to being with.
Short answer - yes. Long answer - This is what Gen 8 should have all along and yes, it really does feel like an evolution (pre-evolution? being a prequel) of the series. Gameplay feels modern and a lot of the classic tropes are there in some shape or another.
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