And can I just say, 2D Zelda combat is too simple. There's noting to it, just button masking. It needs more attacks or something to add complexity and keep it interesting because it's literally just Zelda 1 with a 360 degree axis.
Ehh, the only real difference between combat in ALBW and a 3D Zelda was lack of Z-targeting and first person aiming with items, and that just comes down to needing more precise targeting when translating combat to a 3D space.
I think the problem isn't complexity in what you can do. It's lack of what enemies do. Imagine 2D Zelda combat that actually made you be precise with blocking, use a variety of items, etc. Enemies that swarm you, that sort of thing. One of the most memorable things for me in Ocarina of Time were the Lizalfos enemies in Dodongo Cavern. It was the first time in a Zelda game that allowed and encouraged you to use more advanced maneuvering techniques like blocking and dodging and it blew my mind as a kid. There hasn't been that sort of thing in a 2D Zelda game, but that doesn't mean there couldn't be.
The enmies being simplistic is one part of it. The bigger problem, in my opinion, is that you have only one sword attack and the spin attack. Stuff like a lunge attack, heavy attack, and, I dunno, I'm not a combat designer, could really make the gameplay more involved.
That doesn't disprove my point at all. I established that making an adventure game non-linear takes work. My point is that, at the end of the day, non-linearity almost always helps.
It does this part: "Freedom of exploration is a fundamental part of what adventure games are..."
Paper Mario the Thousand Year Door is linear, all 3D Zeldas are linear, All Metroid Prime games are linear main quest wise. They are also some of the best games in their respective genres. You can state your ideology 7 times to Sunday, nonlinearity is not inherently superior to linearity in any way, nor vice versa.
Not everything needs to be a exploration-based open world game, for Franceska's sake!
Freedom of exploration is not the same thing as non-linear progression. All the games you mentioned (aside from Metroid Prime which I'm not sure of since I haven't played it) have exploration in their sidequests
Also, Ocarina of Time did have nonlinear progression. SS technically had it too in its final third (though it was more nonlinear in the way 3D Mario games are nonlinear)
Currently Playing: Steamworld Heist, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, Tales of Graces F
That doesn't disprove my point at all. I established that making an adventure game non-linear takes work. My point is that, at the end of the day, non-linearity almost always helps.
It does this part: "Freedom of exploration is a fundamental part of what adventure games are..."
Paper Mario the Thousand Year Door is linear, all 3D Zeldas are linear, All Metroid Prime games are linear main quest wise. They are also some of the best games in their respective genres. You can state your ideology 7 times to Sunday, nonlinearity is not inherently superior to linearity in any way, nor vice versa.
Not everything needs to be a exploration-based open world game, for Franceska's sake!
Freedom of exploration is not the same thing as non-linear progression. All the games you mentioned (aside from Metroid Prime which I'm not sure of since I haven't played it) have exploration in their sidequests.
All of the games I mentioned have linear main quests, which are also amazing, so let's stop demonizing linearity, stat.
I think they should use progression like Elliot Quest. Even though the game is linear, you still have to figure out where to go. That can add to the exploration factor while keeping the difficulty curve.
Current games: Everything on Switch
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That doesn't disprove my point at all. I established that making an adventure game non-linear takes work. My point is that, at the end of the day, non-linearity almost always helps.
It does this part: "Freedom of exploration is a fundamental part of what adventure games are..."
Paper Mario the Thousand Year Door is linear, all 3D Zeldas are linear, All Metroid Prime games are linear main quest wise. They are also some of the best games in their respective genres. You can state your ideology 7 times to Sunday, nonlinearity is not inherently superior to linearity in any way, nor vice versa.
Not everything needs to be a exploration-based open world game, for Franceska's sake!
Freedom of exploration is not the same thing as non-linear progression. All the games you mentioned (aside from Metroid Prime which I'm not sure of since I haven't played it) have exploration in their sidequests.
All of the games I mentioned have linear main quests, which are also amazing, so let's stop demonizing linearity, stat.
I'm not trying to demonize linearity. I think linear games can be really good. And for games like Paper Mario or Skyward Sword, where there isn't a connected overworld, but a hub world with outlets to different levels, non-linearity wouldn't add much.
But for games like most 3D Zelda games, older Tales games, even Pokemon (actually especially Pokemon), they could be made better with non-linearity done right. The key here though is "done right", as making a game's progression non-linear forces the developer to find new ways of introducing story progression, difficulty scaling, etc. And that can take time and introduce a whole lot of places where something could go wrong. So making these games linear is really a safer option, and that's okay, because I don't want to wait 4-6 years for every adventure game or RPG.
Currently Playing: Steamworld Heist, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, Tales of Graces F
Actually, the second generation Pokemon games have a short nonlinear part, after beating the fourth gym you can do a good number of things in any order you want until before the rockets take over the radio tower.
Unfortunately that made the game fairly unbalanced, for a while your Pokemon are ok, and then right after that they're very underleveled. And without good ways to level up, because all the trainers and wild Pokemon around you are still balanced for the levels you had after the fourth gym.
Actually, the second generation Pokemon games have a short nonlinear part, after beating the fourth gym you can do a good number of things in any order you want until before the rockets take over the radio tower.
Unfortunately that made the game fairly unbalanced, for a while your Pokemon are ok, and then right after that they're very underleveled. And without good ways to level up, because all the trainers and wild Pokemon around you are still balanced for the levels you had after the fourth gym.
And let's not talk about the after game...
I'm aware. The first and second gen games were non-linear, and aside from the difficulty scaling, I thought it really helped the games.
If you ask me, the single player campaign of pokemon games is more about the players adventure than anything else. So giving the player a choice in the order they want to approach the world does wonders for that.
Currently Playing: Steamworld Heist, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, Tales of Graces F
...they could be made better with non-linearity done right.
I get that you don't dislike linear games, but your assertion here still seems to be that nonlinearity will improve some linear games. In the case of 3D Zelda nonlinearity won't make it 'better,' just different. Things will shift around and I'm sure old flaws will be traded for new ones.
I believe in nonlinear quality progression concerning linear and nonlinear game design. ie: linear and nonlinear games exist in parallel, either have their strengths, but neither is categorically better than the other.
I don't know what the chances of this happening actually are but, hypothetically, if the new Zelda got a simultaneous release on the Wii U and NX platforms, which would you pick it up for?
I'd get it for the U but would be very curious to see what sorts of advantages the NX version would have.
I would be pretty upset that they delay Zelda for that long, but it depends on if I buy a NX and whether it is a home console or portable console. If the NX is a home console and is marketed well, so I would want one day 1, then I would get it on the NX.
People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...
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...they could be made better with non-linearity done right.
I get that you don't dislike linear games, but your assertion here still seems to be that nonlinearity will improve some linear games. In the case of 3D Zelda nonlinearity won't make it 'better,' just different. Things will shift around and I'm sure old flaws will be traded for new ones.
I believe in nonlinear quality progression concerning linear and nonlinear game design. ie: linear and nonlinear games exist in parallel, either have their strengths, but neither is categorically better than the other.
I Tip my hat to you sir. I suggest you drop the mic and walk away....
"When expecting booby traps, always send the boob in first." -Megatron-
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I don't know what the chances of this happening actually are but, hypothetically, if the new Zelda got a simultaneous release on the Wii U and NX platforms, which would you pick it up for?
I'd get it for the U but would be very curious to see what sorts of advantages the NX version would have.
You're assuming that the NX is a successor to the Wii U.
And I would buy it on the Wii U in either case.
So Anakin kneels before Monster Mash and pledges his loyalty to the graveyard smash.
...they could be made better with non-linearity done right.
I get that you don't dislike linear games, but your assertion here still seems to be that nonlinearity will improve some linear games. In the case of 3D Zelda nonlinearity won't make it 'better,' just different. Things will shift around and I'm sure old flaws will be traded for new ones.
I believe in nonlinear quality progression concerning linear and nonlinear game design. ie: linear and nonlinear games exist in parallel, either have their strengths, but neither is categorically better than the other.
I Tip my hat to you sir. I suggest you drop the mic and walk away....
What are you on about? That post is a month old.
Anyway, I'd buy Zelda U on the NX, depending on that system's backwards compatibility and exclusive features. I imagine it'll run better on the new system.
Am I the only one who wishes the next Zelda in a LINK to the Future. Use the post apocalyptic FF7/ Fallout / style sword and artwork that leaked onto the web several years ago.
The game would have a very polished Fall Out vibe, but smaller in scope. I think that would be AMAZING and could also open up limitless possibilities for the Zelda franchise.
Lol, in other words: They've exhausted the most unoriginal fantasy setting, they should try the most unoriginal sci-fi setting. Just working down that list. Next will be Link does WW2.
Am I the only one who wishes the next Zelda in a LINK to the Future. Use the post apocalyptic FF7/ Fallout / style sword and artwork that leaked onto the web several years ago.
The game would have a very polished Fall Out vibe, but smaller in scope. I think that would be AMAZING and could also open up limitless possibilities for the Zelda franchise.
Lol, in other words: They've exhausted the most unoriginal fantasy setting, they should try the most unoriginal sci-fi setting. Just working down that list. Next will be Link does WW2.
That would be epic!
The Harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. When the going gets tough, the tough gets going.
Nintendo made Zelda more and more linear from Wind Waker to TP to SS. If I could suggest one game for the Zelda team to play it would be Red Dead Redemption. That is the premiere example of how to make a free roam world with dynamic events. I can't wait to see Red Dead 3. I see the franchise as having massive crossover appeal with Nintendo's established Zelda audience.
Nintendo made Zelda more and more linear from Wind Waker to TP to SS. If I could suggest one game for the Zelda team to play it would be Red Dead Redemption. That is the premiere example of how to make a free roam world with dynamic events. I can't wait to see Red Dead 3. I see the franchise as having massive crossover appeal with Nintendo's established Zelda audience.
Great, now we want Zelda, a largely linear series, to be GTA as well as Fallout. Not to mention cramming multiplayer into a series that is very, very singleplayer-oriented . The bad ideas train leaves at midnight so get them all onboard.
Nintendo made Zelda more and more linear from Wind Waker to TP to SS. If I could suggest one game for the Zelda team to play it would be Red Dead Redemption. That is the premiere example of how to make a free roam world with dynamic events. I can't wait to see Red Dead 3. I see the franchise as having massive crossover appeal with Nintendo's established Zelda audience.
Great, now we want Zelda, a largely linear series, to be GTA as well as Fallout. Not to mention cramming multiplayer into a series that is very, very singleplayer-oriented . The bad ideas train leaves at midnight so get them all onboard.
He doesn't speak for all Zelda fans one man doesn't define a whole giant group of fans.
The Harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. When the going gets tough, the tough gets going.
Nintendo made Zelda more and more linear from Wind Waker to TP to SS. If I could suggest one game for the Zelda team to play it would be Red Dead Redemption. That is the premiere example of how to make a free roam world with dynamic events. I can't wait to see Red Dead 3. I see the franchise as having massive crossover appeal with Nintendo's established Zelda audience.
Great, now we want Zelda, a largely linear series, to be GTA as well as Fallout. Not to mention cramming multiplayer into a series that is very, very singleplayer-oriented . The bad ideas train leaves at midnight so get them all onboard.
You ever played the original Zelda? Or LttP? This is the franchise that invented free roam.
Nintendo made Zelda more and more linear from Wind Waker to TP to SS. If I could suggest one game for the Zelda team to play it would be Red Dead Redemption. That is the premiere example of how to make a free roam world with dynamic events. I can't wait to see Red Dead 3. I see the franchise as having massive crossover appeal with Nintendo's established Zelda audience.
Great, now we want Zelda, a largely linear series, to be GTA as well as Fallout. Not to mention cramming multiplayer into a series that is very, very singleplayer-oriented . The bad ideas train leaves at midnight so get them all onboard.
You ever played the original Zelda? Or LttP? This is the franchise that invented free roam.
Too bad Twilight Princess free roam was awful that had nothing to do besides collect hearts,rupee and bugs. Which was boring as heck!
The Harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. When the going gets tough, the tough gets going.
Nintendo made Zelda more and more linear from Wind Waker to TP to SS. If I could suggest one game for the Zelda team to play it would be Red Dead Redemption. That is the premiere example of how to make a free roam world with dynamic events. I can't wait to see Red Dead 3. I see the franchise as having massive crossover appeal with Nintendo's established Zelda audience.
Rockstar is pretty much unparalleled when it comes to open world games right now, but it's because of a pretty unfair advantage. "Make a game like Rockstar" is easy enough to say, but nobody else in the industry is given a blank check and as many years as they want to make a game. GTAV probably cost almost as much as every Wii U 1st party game combined from launch until now.
@Haru17 Weren't you basically asking for Skyrim with a Zelda skin some few dozen pages back? What changed your mind?
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