Topic: Apple AirPlay - a preview and warning for Wii U?

How does that remotely sound what like oyua is doing at all?

Sigh.

AirPlay - tablet controller = iOS library + OnLive.
Ouya - standard controller = Android library + OnLive.

Go figure where I'm coming from.

Well Oyua isn't the aneroid Library since it wont have tootle play store support. Another big difference is the Ipad is streaming all of this too the Apple Tv while the Oyua does all the processing itself. The oyua also will only play games while airplay lets you send a variety of content through the device.

Also Airplay works on the Mac too as well so its has more in common with xbox smartglass in concept that the oyua.

Until Apple TV gets some sort of non airplay support and better content t its still probably the crappiest of home media boxes unless your deep into the apple ecosystem.

I'm referring to the gaming aspect alone on AirPlay in comparison with Ouya, so basically, the iOS game library and the Android game library is what I meant. While I acknowledge those differences, from what you've stated, this doesn't seem to change a thing for gaming alone for AirPlay in comparison to Ouya.

Ouya has been said to offer the capability of being able to continue playing their games on any compatible device, in addition to the TV - that includes PCs, Macs, and the majority of Android smartphones and tablets, if I remember correctly. Assuming this is true, then there is no real difference here either for the gaming aspects of both.

Hmm hadn't heard the Oyua playing games on other hardware part.

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Boom chicka wow.
_{Second bulletin to speed things up.}

EDIT: To correct you, I didn't mean Ouya playing games on other hardware, I meant playing the games you rent/purchase on Ouya on other hardware. It's not very surprising.

Just a question, If Apple were to push this, and officially present themselves as a competitor to the big 3, would that not force them into ESRB jurisdiction? After all, why should they be the only gaming company to be exempt from them (if I'm not mistaken, SEGA also self rated their games before the ESRB came along)?

Why I bring this up, is because the ESRB charges a hefty fee to rate each individual game. If I'm not mistaken (correct me if I'm wrong), I've always thought these fees were partly to blame for the higher prices on Nintendo's, Sony's, and Microsoft's download services. If Apple were to be under the ESRB's jurisdiction, could it possibly cause iOS prices to go up (closer resembling those on other services)?

Of course, as a larger company, those fees may not affect Apple like they do the big 3, but could it keep very small devs from releasing games on iOS, as they wouldn't have the funds to pay the fees?

Stating the obvious, aren't we? It's rather blatant that I have no experience with any of the above; I'm going by what you've described - I'm amused that you thought I have had anything to do with AirPlay. The fact that I haven't is the whole point of why I'm rather aloof with this whole prospect. I'm not an Apple veteran consumer or anything, so if you want to convince me that AirPlay is something completely different, then you'll have to do a lot better. I don't know anything about this. From where I'm standing, comparisons to the Wii U are just shallow.

Basically, from what you've described, AirPlay is a gaming experience which you pair your tablet controller, an iPad, with an Apple TV, and you basically get access to the entire iOS library and the OnLive service to, giving you access to many current-gen games. That sounds just like what Ouya provides, only upscaled, more expensive, and with an extra screen. So unless you can somehow persuade or educate me that this is not the case, I'm unfortunately going to label you as an over-attached fan.

For about the hundredth time now, the point here is not to figure out whether AirPlay is or isn't better than the similar function of the Wii U. This is a Nintendo forum so of course there's going to be so many fanboys who have never touched an Apple product to even bother having that debate. The point here is to point out there is a complete lack of developer interest in AirPlay, despite there being a healthy consumer install base already, and given the Wii U's main selling point is the AirPlay-like feature, this doesn't bode well for the console beyond the initial launch excitement.

Just a question, If Apple were to push this, and officially present themselves as a competitor to the big 3, would that not force them into ESRB jurisdiction? After all, why should they be the only gaming company to be exempt from them (if I'm not mistaken, SEGA also self rated their games before the ESRB came along)?

Apple is indirectly a competitor to the big 3 with or without AirPlay. "Pushing" AirPlay wouldn't change that.

Why I bring this up, is because the ESRB charges a hefty fee to rate each individual game. If I'm not mistaken (correct me if I'm wrong), I've always thought these fees were partly to blame for the higher prices on Nintendo's, Sony's, and Microsoft's download services. If Apple were to be under the ESRB's jurisdiction, could it possibly cause iOS prices to go up (closer resembling those on other services)?

I believe XBLA's indie games don't have to be ESRB-rated, right?

Until the actual laws change, developers are under no obligation to get "apps" (which is what Apple calls games on its devices) ESRB-rated.

Of course, as a larger company, those fees may not affect Apple like they do the big 3, but could it keep very small devs from releasing games on iOS, as they wouldn't have the funds to pay the fees?

Important to note - Apple doesn't develop games.

I had just thought about the branding. Apple and their iPad evokes the vibe of a magical that can simplify and benefit your life. while everyone knows Nintendo for providing fun games.

I may be skipping some steps, but perhaps developers are also reluctant to adopt Air Play enhanced games because the Apple doesn't market the ability for games on their iPad ad. I mean, should they tout about playing Air Play games when you need at least 3 devices when they're making money right now? Pair that up with some issues of discoverability in the App Store, and it doesn't seem attractive to a developer when they can create other compelling experiences.

Nintendo is known as a fun company to kids and families, and they don't have the same issues of too many games like the App Store. They also seem very serious about their philosophy behind their console and push it as a social-family entertainment device. Furthermore, I'm now very intrigued by the concept of asymmetric controls when used in multiple-player (aka social) game mechanics, and could once again create a new trend in gaming if they pull it off successfully. Nevertheless, I still fear that game studios might not take it seriously, but for a slightly different reason: designing game mechanics that's complemented by dual-screen controls is a very new trail to take on that it goes out of a game-designer's comfort zone. That's understandable when consumers are cutting their spending on video games, and so I hope indie developers (and Nintendo) can showcase what the Wii U Gamepad can do.

Does this give you a clearer lens of what's going on?

@LollipopChoSaw, thanks for answering my questions. I always wondered as to why the ESRB doesn't rate the games on smartphones/tablets, & now I know.

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I like you.

This is very true. I think we're thinking on similar wavelengths - when discovery is an issue, you (as in you, mr. game developer) need to focus on some basic, proven ideas. But a developer doesn't have the marketing ability, space or time to market AirPlay. That's up to Apple. As Apple isn't really marketing AirPlay for gaming, developers might be less willing to work on it themselves - no marketing value, no point.

Nintendo is known as a fun company to kids and families, and they don't have the same issues in too-many games like the App Store. They also seem very serious about their philosophy behind their console and push it as a social-family entertainment device. Furthermore, I'm now very intrigued by the concept of asymmetric controls when used in multiple-player (aka social) game mechanics, and could once again create a new trend in gaming if they pull it off successfully. Nevertheless, I still fear that game studios might not take it seriously, but for a slightly different reason: designing game mechanics that's complemented by dual-screen controls is a very new trail to take on that it goes out of a game-designer's comfort zone. That's understandable when consumers are cutting their spending on video games, and so I hope indie developers (and Nintendo) can showcase what the Wii U Gamepad can do.

Does this give you a clearer lens of what's going on?

Yup. I can buy this line of reasoning.

@LollipopChoSaw, thanks for answering my questions. I always wondered as to why the ESRB doesn't rate the games on smartphones/tablets, & now I know.

It's actually worth noting that ESRB isn't law, even for retail. Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft all require games to have an ESRB rating before they're approved for release, but that's Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft's rule, not American law.

If, hypothetically, Apple were to release a console that took disc media, there would be no law that said Apple needs to force developers to have ESRB (or any other rating) on games sold on its console. Social pressure would probably force Apple to adopt it longer term... or perhaps not. Apple has always done its own thing.

Mind you, in Australia, the ratings system is law, and were Apple to release the same console here, game developers would need to get rated for Australian release.

Which is why it is so weird that app games don't need to be rated in Australia. It's a direct breach of the law.

Oh, Waltz, you hyperbolic old man.

Alright, I can see through this to an extent. Personally, I feel that even though both systems have pretty much similar selling-point methods of play, I don't feel they mirror each other on the fate of their respective gaming market - I feel that they are quite different, and the reason for AirPlay not getting as much developer interest as it should is something not too related to its play features. But, I can acknowledge that it could be relative, even in the least.

First off, I've researched a bit about AirPlay. To me, this particular feature between iDevices isn't really being marketed, or at least portrayed as something that'd make a considerable forefront in iOS gameplay - I'm not saying that it couldn't, I'm just saying that it isn't really being marketed as such by Apple. For now, I feel that it's just being acknowledged as a wireless streaming function (which is unsurprising, as gaming hasn't been marketed much on iDevices, per se), and with that, it really won't draw in much developer interest until they are able to think outside the box, or Apple somehow pushes the idea to a forefront. Whereas, with the Wii U, it's been marketed pretty blatantly, as a stand-alone home console alone, that the Wii U's GamePad is the main and prominent device with which many things are capable with the console in relation to gaming alone - Nintendo's only focus with their machines is gaming, and that is what anything they come up with will be represented/acknowledged for, unlike Apple.

Secondly, it seems as though you need an iPad/iPhone in conjunction with an Apple TV or Mac to efficiently utilise AirPlay's gaming functions. I'll be straight with my perspective here; the iPad/iPhone, again, are not really marketed as gaming devices alone with the capabilities of iOS and whatnot. The majority of the consumer base for these portable iDevices are usually just utilising the tablets/phones for normal day-to-day/work purposes, as the devices are mainly presented. I am aware that iOS/mobile gaming in general is becoming quite a segregated factor on its own, but since Apple does not mainly market their devices as such, not many people are going to consider buying one of these for the sole, or at least, main purpose of gaming. I believe this also applies for Macs (which are generally functional as pretty powerful computers, and if there is any gaming to be done, it's most definitely on the PC basis) and the Apple TV, which I believe is one of those "smart" TVs, but anything other than the general functionality of watching movies and TV on those things is unbeknownst to me.

And I think the one key factor relating to this and contributing to the AirPlay popularity factor is that, well, iDevices and Macs/Apple TVs are isolated products. Each have their own separate functions, and beyond a few general wireless transfer necessities as with any phone and PC, they aren't really seen to be things viably utilised in conjunction with each other, much less for gaming - and that is the exact opposite of the Wii U. With one glance, you know that, without the GamePad, there is no console playability and vice versa. The GamePad has displayed no isolated function of its own so far. They are one and the same, and produced and marketed as a console and its respective controller. It's blatantly obvious that they are not separate, and that's definitely why nobody can mistake them for being unrelated to each other, as opposed to the general view of Apple products.

Maybe these are just my own perspectives, but I think this is a huge factor in why AirPlay hasn't had that much exposure for its possible gaming aspects.

It's 12:30 in the morning - so apologies for the brief response here - good points, GameLord. I've got nothing to disagree with there, thanks for the insights

Good points. Though I will say using an idevice with an apple TV is far better than using the weird remote that comes with it.

I expect a proper reply from you tomorrow.

I find it rather annoying when my brother starts playing his games and the Apple TV decides that we should listen to that instead of watching netfix

I haven't really tried AirPlay myself, I'll try it later.

I have an Ipad 2 and Apple TV. Most companies don't support Airplay because it is a disappointment... the framerate displayed on your TV is like 15 FPS and there it too much lag to make most games playable, it's not as noticible with some of the driving games but try to play a platformer and you'll see that it takes like half a second between your button press and the jumping on the TV. The lag is in Airplay, not my TV, I have a DLP which is much faster than any LCD.

The lag is probably just your connection. It slows down when I'm doing downloads and such as well on other devices. If AirPlay is the only connection I'm using then it runs fine.