Topic: We could all be playing Wind Waker this weekend. But instead we got Skyward Sword.

I've said this on a few threads now, i'm not sure WW or TP will come to the Switch, I think they will be used to fill the gap to the next 3D Zelda game in 5+ years on the Switch 2.

I'm hoping they remaster the games like they did with Metroid Prime (completely redone graphics) but optimised for the new hardware, so "DLSS 4K"...

@rallydefault
The Wii outsold the competition and as a result some "gamers" resented it. In the same way that fans of particular genres of music whine about that one band who becomes popular. Because they're popular

There's 100% a popular meme amongst people who label themselves"gamers" against alternative control schemes and the Wii specifically. Kinda impossible to ignore it. And I feel as though games like Skyward Sword inevitably got caught in the crossfire

@skywake
Sure, but I know you recognize that not everyone who dislikes motion controls falls into those "categories" you were spitballing, so I don't know why you're defending that hill. Motion controls are like any other control method: great when they're great, not when they're not. Some wiggle room for preference in between. And these days motion controls are just as commonplace as the other methods when you account for mobile gaming.

I know we're on a Nintendo forum and you clearly know your target audience, but I gotta point out a ridiculous statement when I see one.

Funny enough, I'm going back to playing some Mario Galaxy lol (a game in which I enjoy the motion controls even though I despise motion controls overall... and I'm even really good at the game!)

Couldn't resist haha

@rallydefault
I wasn't suggesting that all people dislike motion controls. Of course it's a subjective thing. What I was saying is that that a lot of the ire directed towards games like Skyward Sword is reactionary nonsense purely due to the popular sentiment against motion controls amongst "gamers"

Nobody will have a Wii U anymore when they all explode simultaneously in April 2024. Why must Nintendo keep doing this to us? 😢

(and I own a totally not homebrewed Wii U but I haven’t gotten WW on it yet, I’ve been meaning to since I really want to play it)

No, I should be able to have discussions where a level of nuance is assumed without me having to specify every single exception to who I am referring to. If people just assume that I have negative feelings to every single person that may vaguely fit into what I'm referring to, that's not on me. If I say a group of people were close minded towards motion controls, it should be reasonable to assume that close mindedness is the issue, not a dislike of motion controls.

Though I will say in this case it was more a joke about people being bad at games with different motion controls. Which I even edited to be LESS about every single person who dislikes them btw. But I think the same thing still applies, not every single thing stated is a serious, broad statement about every single person who vaguely has a similar opinion.

also its very funny that you think that I would assume a group of people only fit into one of two boxes :V

@kkslider5552000
Welcome to the internet? Come on, now.

**** the internet, I really don't care what the internet thinks.

oh also while I'm here burying the most commonly annoying opinions on Nintendo that for some reason persist, BOTW's OST is obviously 10/10, Other M's story was bad in execution and it is humiliating to imply nearly any people only hated it for what the story was attempting to go for, Nintendo is not remotely as bad a company as an Activision in any reality, even with every single bad thing they've ever done in mind

One other common criticism of Nintendo is that they're guilty of planned obsolescence, so that they can sell us the the same games again every generation.

This is clearly a counterexample of why that's not always the case.

@Matt_Barber I don't get the idea that they planned obsolescence. The company has historically been one for backwards compatibility on almost most of their consoles. The Switch was one of the exceptions, given it got rid of the dual screens and can't read discs.

@Matt_Barber would you be happy if we got a remaster of WW and TP on Switch 2? Think Metroid Prime Remastered but graphics optimised for the new hardware (4K DLSS) with everything redone.

@VoidofLight Yeah, I’m inclined to agree. Built-in obsolescence abounds in the industry, but I feel Nintendo is one of the hardest companies to fault for it. They’ve often gone to pretty extreme degrees to ensure backwards compatibility (devoting a big chunk of the original DS hardware to a GBA slot/filling the Wii full of GC controller ports/ensuring that all Wii gubbins are compatible with the Wii U/etc.) and their hardware is known for being pretty bulletproof.

The only really exception I can think of is the Joy-Cons, which are infamously prone to drift as well as being so very colourful, collectible and easily replaceable. Thankfully I’ve been able to fix any issues I’d had with a quick spray of contact cleaner, but it’s definitely an issue that Nintendo is fairly called out on.

@Maxz Yeah, Joycon drift is the only issue I'd say they have hardware-wise. It seems to be an issue with a lot of controllers on a ton of other systems as well, but joycons have it the roughest.

@kkslider5552000
lol you can't have it all ways, man. You made a dumb statement, own up to it and move on. Also, maybe step away for a hot second, you seem upset.

For me, my issues with Skyward Sword are far removed from the motion controls. I personally just don't like how it feels like the overworld is far more empty than in previous Zelda titles (even though it really isn't), all because they picked the skies to focus on. Wasn't a fan of how there were so many sky islands which really just meant nothing. Another thing that I had a gripe about is how you had to effectively keep popping between the Surface and Skies in order to complete some quests, and it felt annoying because you needed to find a bird statue, then go back up to the skies, then fly over to another surface opening, and then skydive again back to the surface. Rinse and repeat.

The motion controls can be a bit of a bother, and I don't think that it's fair to assume that people didn't like them either because they "couldn't adapt" or because "they wanted to hate on them", given that I wasn't in either of those parties. I used to play so many games on the Wii that utilized motion controls, but Skyward Sword was one of the games that didn't exactly click with me. The only reason I gave Skyward Sword HD a shot was because they presented the option to play without Motion Controls, and I personally prefer it more. It feels more precise than what the motion controls felt like.

Yeah, Nintendo has always been pretty strong on long term compatibility and the times they haven't done it it has been for clear technical reasons. Obviously the Switch couldn't have an optical drive and still been the console it was. And even if it could have there's simply not enough power to emulate the Wii U on Switch and having a full on Wii U CPU/GPU in the Switch would have been.... impractical....

With that said, I am still slightly bitter about two decisions they made with the Switch along these lines. They knew the games we brought on Wii U, especially the digital titles. They then ported most of those titles to Switch. The Switch eShop never recognised these purchases, even via some kind of discount. Secondly, none of the controllers from Wii or Wii U work on Switch. Something which I feel is particularly relevant to this thread

@VoidofLight @rallydefault
I feel like both of you have completely misunderstood what both @kkslider5552000 and I were saying. There is definitely a large rump of people who dislike any games with motion controls, and particularly the ones on Wii, because they feel like they have to. It's not something they have consciously thought about, they might not have even played these games. They just "know" they don't like these games, just because. It's almost part of their identity

And frankly, it's not too dissimilar to what @rallydefault was trying to wedge me on PC gaming. There are people on these forums who do a similar thing in regards to PC gaming. It's clear from the way they talk that they haven't really given it much time. They just dislike it because they dislike it, it defines them. It is equally as inane

....... and when @kkslider5552000 said that part of that might be due to the fact that these people aren't particularly good at these different control schemes? I mean sure, that could well be part of it. Case and point the Wii pointer was two IR points and a camera, it required line of sight and didn't do well with reflective surfaces or sunlight. If you weren't aware of and/or didn't take notice of this? You were in for a bad time and you probably blamed the game. Same deal with PC gaming. I mean some people struggle to put batteries in the right way around so I'd imagine the concept of task manager would freak them out

but yeah, OP strikes me as the sort of person who's identity is tied up in the idea of disliking games like Skyward Sword. I doubt there's much depth to their dislike of it if their opinion is so strong that they would create a topic titled like this one is. I think you people are giving OP's critical review of Skyward Sword just a little bit too much credit

Agree with everything @skywake has said.

An argument seems to have brewed in which everyone is making pretty reasonable points but slightly missing the point of each other’s argument with the result that it’s now basically turned into an argument about how one should go about having an argument.

I can’t disagree with the broad strokes of what anyone is saying… except the OP who (by their own admission) is “never gonna stop being mad” so is probably beyond help anyway.

I'd also add that, personally, I do prefer Wind Waker over Skyward Sword. It's a game that generally scales better visually and I feel has the best music in the series. Also the feel of the game is unrivalled in the Zelda series. Toon Link is just way more expressive in the way he moves and fights, and that comes through in the controls

But.... I'd also place Skyward Sword very high on the list. It doesn't have the same I guess I'd say purity of art as Wind Waker. But it's not that far off. And I would argue that the core characters, Groose in particular, shine in a way that other games in the series rarely do. And the dungeons are god tier for Zelda

I'd personally put Wind Waker and Skyward Sword both above Ocarina, Twilight Princess and Majora's Mask. Not sure how I'd rank them against other titles because beyond those it gets a bit tricky to compare. BotW/TotK and all the 2D titles are just outright different kinds of games

@skywake Thank you for elaborating better than I could.

@skywake
Where did I say there wasn't a group of people, maybe even quite large, who don't like motion controls because they haven't given them enough of a chance? Or because they feel it's their identity to dislike motion controls? Go on: Show me.

I took issue with your oversimplification of the camps that people can fall into when it comes to motion controls. Period. And you and the other dude can't just own up to saying really broad stuff that could easily be construed as, well, saying really broad stuff that doesn't apply to a lot of people around here, me included.

And no, sorry @kkslider5552000 - I'm not doing your work for you. You want people to just assume nuance in your conversation? Type what you mean and mean what you type. Take the five seconds to (easily) acknowledge that you're painting with a large brush. Done.

It's not a huge deal. I called you on careless language, end of story. Either own up to it or keep typing essays on why you won't own up to it; do what makes you feel snazzy.