Quake

@Nintendoftw Well one thing's for certain, they didn't fix the RRoD, and that alone destroys any possibility of real improvement over the fat. And unless you have something other than your word saying Bully SE runs better on the slim then you're stuck where you are. Do you even own/have owned a 360?

Again you're making assumptions. Have you played every single game ever created in its original format? Not likely. So you can't speak on behalf of every game.

You contradicted yourself in the response (#418). How can everything be perfect, based on the definition of perfect, if there are imperfections? Glitches count as imperfections. Also, perfection is relative. Some people say that Uncharted has much more perfect facial animations than L.A. Noire.

@Nintendoftw Bully SE was ported to the fat 360, they should have compensated for any possible problems. Also, why would playing it on the slim 360 be better than the fat?

@Nintendoftw I'd still say that Skyward Sword is more detailed than L.A. Noire. But I suppose that also comes down to preference in a game. Realistic versus fantasy. Generally I would rather play a game that's fake over one that's possibly just another persons altered reality. If I want/wanted to be a detective I could/could have been one and it would be much more realistic than L.A. Noire because it's reality. But it's impossible to fight giant beasts/goombas/ogres/etc. in reality because they don't exist. Simple as that.

All games may have glitches but HD games have far more than the Wii. As far as I can tell you have to go looking for glitches on Wii games while on HD games the glitches generally find you. Like in that Galaxy 2 video, you must specifically point the cannon at a part of the screen and fire to get it to work while just from playing BF3's campaign I was knifed through a door by the computer just from taking cover behind a counter in a garage. And in another glitch a tank was still moving after it had been destroyed, the tank one was on 1.04.

I would say that most reviewers omit quite a few of the technical glitches in games simply because most are so obvious that it seems like it's impossible to not notice them. Gears 2 for example, that game had SO many glitches at launch and yet no reviewers ever mentioned them. Whether it was lag, using a two handed weapon while holding a shield, infinite ammo or invisibility, no reviewer ever mentioned any technical issues.

@Nintendoftw Not to mention the so-called coop is just splitscreen mini games.

Wow, first video of glitches I find for L.A. Noire and it shows how buggy the game is. If I can't even walk or drive around without falling through the map or the game freezing how can I even play the game? Not to mention the popping environment. And that game took 7 years to make.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMfo1YBmCn0

@Nintendoftw Yes, but Manhunt 2 was developed for the Wii and launched the same time as the other version, so Rockstar did bother developing for the Wii.

The 360 version of Bully SE at launch had so many issues that it was practically un-playable. The biggest being that it was so poorly developed it crashed just from playing it.
http://www.gamespot.com/bully-scholarship-edition/reviews/bully-scholarship-edition-review-6187502/

@Nintendoftw You do realize that Bully was originally on the PS2 and later ported to the Wii, which would mean it's not a Wii exclusive, which means it has no relevance in this conversation. It's also worth noting how you mentioned in an earlier comment that Rockstar wouldn't bother with the Wii, but quite obviously they do have games on the Wii, Bully SE and Manhunt 2. By the way, Bully SE was also on the 360 as well and the 360 version has WAY more glitches than the Wii version. In this situation the Wii version ends up being the best version to buy because it doesn't have as many glitches, the 360 version was patched, but that just mainly fixed the game freezing portions.

@SanFrisco9er The only thing that is dis-proven is that Gears 1 is not a 360 exclusive. Off of the second post the thing I dis-proved is that just because the box says it's an exclusive doesn't necessarily mean it's an exclusive anymore.

In the end mentioning Gears 1 in the context you did had no relevance to the discussion in general.

So it must be your personal preference to want anything that's an Original Xbox or 360 game to be on the PC as well?

@Nintendoftw The "My (something)" series is purely made by Ubi, saw a large advertisement for them in an old Gamestop holiday catalog and a large Ubi logo in the corner. Though I've yet to see an Ubi game come out that didn't have its fair share of glitches. And Ubi is not a Wii exclusive developer.

I can't recall any Wii exclusive developer that has a game with many, if any, glitches. On the other hand I've yet to see very many HD system games come out without a large number of glitches, and they do generally take around 2-3 years to create the game. If a game comes out and has numerous glitches, popping textures, bugs and online lag it's quite obvious the developer(s) did not polish the game, and that is what the HD systems are primarily comprised of, games that are tested by the consumers who spent $60 on a beta. I don't think I've played a game on the HD generation that didn't update when I first put the disc in. I think that I only enjoyed Bad Company 2 to the degree I did because I got it over a year after it had been tested by everyone else, and I got it for less than they did.

@Nintendoftw AI is the developers job, not just based solely on the systems capabilities. Thinking with the restrictions that you have set, the Wii's capabilities being slightly lower than the original Xbox, how on earth is the Wii's AI even remotely comparable to the DS's AI? The only possible reason would be that the developers are not doing their job well enough. That is paradoxical reasoning on your part.

@SanFrisco9er Wow, umm, that comment really holds no water at all. By what you're saying that would mean that Halo 3, an exclusive to the 360 because it says so on the box, would also be on the PC, but it's not. That also goes for all the other 360 Halo games. Nor are Gears 2 or 3 on the PC. And if Gears is not the topic to be debating then why did you bring it up and use it as a point in the debate?

@Nintendoftw Did you read that article? All that it says is that the 3DS comes with fog effects built on a chip in the system. Nowhere does it say whether or not the system is more proficient at creating fog effects over other effects. Plus, it's not from Wiki like you claimed it would be.

Like I said before, I don't care if you believe my reason to be illegitimate. There's not room for it's discussion. It comes down to personal beliefs, and nothing you say can change my opinion on the subject.

@Nintendoftw Forget about the 3DS fog topic? Still waiting on that cut and paste.

@Nintendoftw So you're contradicting yourself. In post #362, from what I can surmise from the post, kinda choppy. You said that Batman: AC is, in the context of the post, a hardcore game based solely on the fact it is difficult to beat the game"fully" regardless of the difficulty level. I do agree with you, however, that the difficulty of a game is relative to the player.

I can't comment on whether or not Dead Space 2 is hard on hard, but from what I played of it, it was pretty easy, just minor differences from what RE4 started on the Cube. RE4 on the Cube wasn't that hard either, regardless of the difficulty.

CoD does take skill, but I'm not sure whether you would count camping and other cheap methods as a skill. (they don't require skill.)

Most fighting games hardcore just by the nature of their design. I don't wanna even get started with BF3 again, because it's quite apparent we had/have different experiences with the game. Never played a GTA, Just Cause 2 shares the closest similarities, though not completely comparable, and I own that. If you're gonna ask why I haven't played GTA it boils down to this, I don't like the option/ability/requirement to kill Police. That is also part of the reason why I traded BF3 today, that mission where you MUST kill Police in order to get to your objective. (I'm lacking specifics to prevent possible spoilers for any current/future board readers.) In general, don't wanna debate why I don't want to kill the Police, and I don't care if that comes across as illegitimate answer. Not that I'm specifically saying you would call me out on this, just trying to cover all my bases.

@Nintendoftw Again, Wiki is not an accurate source of information just because anyone can alter it. But regardless of that, I read the article and could not locate any sentence that says the chip is more proficient at creating fog effects over other effects. So I need you to copy and paste the part of the Wiki that verifies your claim.

Even if my point doesn't satisfy what you perceive to be correct, you still said that a game is only difficult when it has a lot of side quests, and if you don't play the side quests the game is no longer difficult. If collect-a-thon games are hardcore then DK64 must be in the top ten most hardcore games simply because you have the option to collect, a lot. But if someone decides not to collect the side items then the game is no longer hardcore to the one who decided against the collecting.

@Nintendoftw Ragdoll physics have been in use far before the HD generation. (They started in the late 90's) CoD doesn't even use ragdoll physics, they only have pre-rendered death animations and it is one of the best-selling franchises in the HD generation. So the expectations a consumer has for a PS3/360 game are not as high as you perceive them to be.

@Nintendoftw Again, the percentage you are using is not backed up by math so it has no weight in this conversation. But either way that is still your opinion whether or not it's pathetic for the Wii not to have enough "mature" titles but is not pathetic for the PS3 to have a good amount of "mature" titles. (That comes down to be a double-standard, though.)

Saying that Batman AC is hard only when one "fully" completes it doesn't hold any water. Any game that has optional collect-a-thon side quests would then become hard. Based off of that logic a game such as Donkey Kong Returns (which is not a "mature" game according to all that you've said) is automatically hard only because you have optional collect-a-thon side quests that are required to "fully" beat the game. When in actuality, whether or not you attempt the collect-a-thon side quests the game still requires skill to complete.

You are judging the graphics chip's abilities based off of one game that has amazing fog effects? And based on a game that came out less than one year since the launch of the system? (RE: R) That's jumping to conclusions without enough data to sit on either side.

@Nintendoftw First off, Batman AA was easy, yet to play it on hard, but on normal the combat relies heavily on waiting for an opening, which requires some degree of patience. Quake 1 on nightmare without cheats is where real difficulty is, but that's another story.
I highly doubt you crunched the numbers to get the percentage you have in your post, but who knows, maybe you did. Assuming it is a fake percentage I could come up with one that is representative of the PS3 in relation to what you consider games aimed towards the "mature" audience and say that it's "pathetic" and the conversation wouldn't move, just like how it is with your comment. So your comment was pointless.
Graphics don't really make a game experience better. I could play Bad Company 2 (even though it is graphically weaker than Battlefield 3) and have as good a time or maybe even better.

@Nintendoftw You do realize that shaders and fog effects are not part of the system, they are part of the software. Proof of this is with Chaos Theory. During the development process they added new shader software to the game. You should have seen it before the newer shaders, lighting looked like Pandora Tomorrow.

@Nintendoftw I can't see how that is in any way a misreading on my part considering you specifically wrote "mature" which is what the "M" rating stands for. It must be a poor choice of words on your part.

@Nintendoftw I take it you've never perused a list of mature DS games and then compared the number to mature Wii games. Wii - Alone in the Dark, Black Ops, MW3, World at War, Cursed Mountain, Dead Rising, Dead Space: E, Madworld, Manhunt 2, No More Heroes 1 and 2, Obscure, Darkside Chronicles, Umbrella Chronicles, Silent Hill: SM, Double Agent and Tenchu. That amounts to be 16, and I skipped some. The DS has 999, Dementium 1 and 2, GTA, Theresia, Touch the Dead, RE: DS, Crime Scene, Ultimate Mortal Kombat and Shin Megami Tensei: SJ. Which amounts to be 11. Quite obviously the DS had less mature titles than the Wii.

@Nintendoftw Based off of your comment it's completely logical for me to say that you think EA, Capcom, Ubi and the numerous other developers/publishers are no-bodies because they made/make games for the Wii. That also means that you enjoy playing a game (Deadspace 2) that was made by a no-body, AKA EA.

@SanFrisco9er Gears 1 is not an exclusive to consoles, it was ported to the PC as well. And if you don't think that to be a legitimate answer to it's disuse in this conversation there's another really condemning factor that Gears 1 possesses. Ridiculous glitches that still haven't been patched. Kung-fu flip, weapon slide, roadie run and random reload to name some of the most used and abused. Since very few people ever buy a 360 game just for the single player they should have great glitch-free multi-player, but they don't.

@Nintendoftw You do realize Wiki is not a reliable source. The Wi''s specs have not been released to the general public and that's what it boils down to. Third parties can try to clock the system but who's to say whether what they do is correct or not flawed in some way? No one. But if you wanna believe un-proven theories then okay, be my guest.

@Nintendoftw Chaos Theory is definitely a gorgeous game, played it so much that was borderline ridiculous. I still think Doom 3 is the best looking game on xbox b/c it had such amazing lighting, bump mapping and gooey textures, not to mention mega textures. id has the best coders in the industry, so it almost seems unfair to compare most other games to them. But it all still comes down to 3rd party devs not making graphically amazing games for the Wii.

@Nintendoftw I'm finished for now, going to sleep, be back tomorrow.

@Nintendoftw If it's just by a really small margin like 4 MHz then it's barely even worth noting. Plus the xbox was limited by the DirectX of the time. The Wii (probably isn't DirectX based) has much newer software.

@Nintendoftw Xbox has according to Wiki a 733 MHz processor. Wii has no processor number listed.

@Nintendoftw If you click the names it says it's 243 MHz. But it was never confirmed by any real authority on the subject.

@Nintendoftw I'd love to see the proof you have of that. Games are not necessarily an accurate representation of graphical capabilities. It depends on the developer more than anything. All of the 3rd party graphical power house devs are allocating most of their sources on PC, PS3 and 360. If the same developers were to put the same effort to work on a game specifically for the Wii it would look a lot better than most people think. So unless you have the Wii's specs from Nintendo or a trust-worthy dev there's not much that can be said.

@Nintendoftw Actually it doesn't look as good as you might think. It probably could run on Wii. Definitely could run on PS3 and 360. I'm fairly certain it didn't have a massive publisher or developer, and it's more terrifying than most any horror game. But horror is also relative to the person playing.

@Nintendoftw Unfortunately you're probably right about it being basically the only horror game this generation. Ever since RE went the path of not scary there hasn't been any good scary games. Since Konami contracts out companies to make Silent Hill games, they've gotten worse as well. However, being the only one doesn't make Dead Space good. Amnesia for PC is scarier.

@Nintendoftw Nope, don't own it, played. Very mediocre game, in terms of scares, atmosphere and puzzles. Much rather play hard from the start games like RE (classics, not the fake RE4 and RE5) and Dino Crisis. Extermination is also good.
I would need to play it some more to say whether or not they removed the glitches. I plan on trading it in next week, though. Just not a good game, I liked BC2 but that eventually got old. BF3 had glitches the moment I started playing and that really tainted the whole experience.
AAA is relative I suppose. I'm not gonna say it's good just b/c most reviewers say it is, given my experience with it.

@Nintendoftw I can't see how Deadspace is difficult considering they let you melee. Played it before and just went through the game melee killing everyone. The whole concept of easy button melee in a horror game takes away the suspense and removes some of the point of a gun.

@Nintendoftw If it fits your definition of a AAA game then okay. After re-thinking it I don't really know if BF3 fits the AAA category for me. A massive budget yes, but the glitches (maybe bugs instead of glitches, depending on what a glitch is by definition) in the game are just as massive.

@Nintendoftw Generally takes 2-3 tries to climb over a wall. Either way, this game should have had no glitches at the latest 1.01. They didn't fix the heavy texture popping either.

@Nintendoftw There are still glitches in the multiplayer. MAV glitch anyone? Not to mention how many tries it takes to climb over a wall.

@Nintendoftw Yeah, I can't imagine buying a AAA shooter by EA or Activision only for the campaign. Actually that's only counting online. The single player has glitches unique to it as well. I estimate a little over half finished with the campaign.

@Nintendoftw Depends on what you call playing much. I played MW2 14 or so days on 360, 1 or so days on PS3. I've played Bad Company 2 about 1 day as well. I've only played BF3 about 5 hours. But that's just because though the game is at ver. 1.04 it plays like a beta with glitches and bugs galore.

@Nintendoftw I never said it had more boring than intense moments. I've yet to experience a match where that much happens continually throughout the match.

@Nintendoftw I obviously don't have a game I have? Explain how that's possible.

@Nintendoftw You do realize that video is a cut and paste of the most intense portions of an online match. There are many other portions where nothing happens.

@Nintendoftw Yes, Wii owners could enjoy all of the glitches and bugs that game is filled with. Thankfully they won't unless they buy it for another console.

@Nintendoftw MW3 is cheap. Spawn killing and camping are huge problems, but aside from that it's okay, I still think MW2 is better. BF3 isn't hard once you unlock attachments to reduce your guns recoil, pretty easy actually.

@Nintendoftw Sorry for not keeping watch over the games that are "for toddlers [or] little kids." Generally I only keep watch over games that have relevance to my preferences.

@Nintendoftw Have a good collection of PS3 games. What they have for sale on the market in terms of diversity still doesn't compare to the Wii.

@Nintendoftw The majority of games on the PS3 are shooters.