Nintendo's Ability To Ban Switch 2 Consoles Has Landed It In Hot Water

I seriously don't understand why it's this much of a problem now when it is a thing for Switch 1, PS4 & PS5, possibly even more consoles than that.

Glad to see this is being challenged, it absolutely should be because Nintendo doing this is absolutely absurd.

I’m sorry, but I’m on Nintendo’s side here. If you steal from them by pirating, they should be allowed to restrict you from using their servers

Should definitely be challenged. Ban them from online play absolutely but outrageous to brick a console they’ve paid for. Once you buy it, it’s your property to do what you like with, Nintendo should reserve the right to revoke your access to their servers and that’s it.

The Switch 2 situation is reminding me more and more of the PS3 launch. Starting to feel like Nintendo got too big for its britches following the success of the Switch.

@LuigiBlood My first preowned console was a ps3, that was banned from psn so I know it was a thing even on ps3 😅Couldn't buy games online or play online which truthfully wasn't a huge problem because of physical media, but it sucked if you wanted online.

I'm willing to bet nintendo will come back and say "sucks to be you"

But MIG cartridge is playing PIRATED Switch games, right?
Pirated games will be simply get banned by Nintendo if you use them with online connection.

@NFrealinkling The problem is defining pirating. I and many others (though we are perhaps in the minority of most use cases) use the MIG on S1 so I don't lose my carts, saving money in the process. Thats not pirating, as I still own the original carts.

However, I also wasn't "dumb" enough to use mine on S2, in case nintendo had sussed something out, rendering my £400 console useless.

In short, I both agree and disagree....

Surely there's a way nintendo can verify this? Not ideal, but even if they detect it, issue a warning saying that you must insert the original cart to check licenses within (x) time? Hardly ideal, but its a work around.

That way, everybody who is using them legit wins, and nintendo still gets to show people the ban hammer.

I mean, they could also create the same thing for the reasons legit people use it for, with the same restrictions. But thats just too complex for a hardware and software company 🤣

What I don't understand is, on the Switch 1, legitimate users of the device never got banned, only the ones who were pirating things did. If they have the ability to know which is which, they shouldn't just be flagrantly banning anyone who so much as sticks one in their switch 2. I don't get how anyone can defend that past "they can do whatever they want to" or something.

Nintendo has every right to stamp down on piracy and unlicensed software, but nuking a system entirely is just overkill. Surely blocking the account linked to the system should be enough? At least give consumers the ability to unblock a system, perhaps for a fee?

All other issues aside: This isn't "bricking". Bricking is when the device is stripped of all ability to do anything, making it essentially no more than a brick. This is banning it from online services.

The thing about this is that it does make sense to an extent that suddenly not accessing stuff you've paid for is annoying.
But what's your choice?

• Banning the account, which therefore bans access to all your games in one way or another
• Or banning the console, assumed compromised and cannot be trusted, where you can just buy another, access your actual account and still have access to your games without a problem.

What is possible to do differently about it? Selling used banned consoles without warning is honestly a problem of the seller.
By the way, this isn't bricking in the slightest, you can still play physical games with it, probably even local multiplayer between consoles possibly.

@Otimus good point - is completely forgot about that aspect in my above post; maybe it was the fact they could see the original cartridge was used at a certain point and as it was at (or close to) the end of its life, they just let it roll and decided to focus resources in that regard to s2...

I mean if I play my dumped game, that is still stored safely in my house, then they can't check the hexagonal code that issues the certificate because its only being flagged as one user online under the same IP etc (if using multiple devices, which i do).

Therefore they most probably were banning those that failed to install certs to root folder / could see multiples of the same certs being used, and just cast a net on those...

Maybe something is fishy... more complex than I can figure now. You've really opened Pandora's box on that one 🤣

Maybe don't use the MIG carts? Crazy I know lol.

Yeah, maybe not insert stuff into your Switch 2 that shouldn't be there in the first place? Anyway, I'm curious what will come of this challenge. Banning people from online services seems reasonable if they do illegal things that were mentioned in a terms of service.

@Otimus We don't know whether they really are banning innocent people. They may very well be banning pirates only.

Why are people doing this to their brand new systems? I mean seriously how dumb can you be? If you're gonna hack/mod do it to something that's no longer relevant like the Wii.

People are so concerned with whether or not they could do it they don't stop to think if they
should. Sound familiar?

I guess nerds find a way. 😉

In all seriousness though you get what's coming to you if you're using those mig carts. I don't feel one bit sorry for people using those. Maybe try legit buying the games instead of being a filthy stinking PIRATE!

Have some of you not read the articles about people returning bricked Switches to the shops? New customers unknowingly buy these Switches because shops don't check this. They don't have the time for it.

Good luck then with your newly bought Switch. Yes, you can return and get a new one. Hopefully a unused one but still.

This will in the end hurt Nintendo's image.

@Slideaway1983 You are definitely the minority.

What kind of the same thing could Nintendo create? Digital games?

Fascinating, I’m curious to see how this plays out…

@Hababam Then sorry but the shops SHOULD actually check that's the least we should actually expect of them

@Yosti I've no doubt i am, but just need to speak up for legit users.

Nah, its more of a throwaway sarcastic comment, but nintendo could create a nintendo MIG cart and basically say, yeah back it up (for a premium), but if we notice that the certification on your cartridge that you've backed up is used elsewhere (and insufficient evidence can be provided, such as IP, your account on the system, whatever) then we reserve the right to ban / brick all consoles associated with that certificate.

Pipe dream, and again part sarcastic - never gonna happen.

***edit*** they could also render you liable for all court costs etc associated with piracy if it blew out of control as well (like being patient 0 of a million counterfeit ROMS in the wild!)... its not like they don't like lawsuits 🤣

"hey, what's in that disabled Switch 2? 'The Earth's blood?'"

I find it insane to "ban" a console because a piece of hardware was used with that console, regardless of how that hardware was used.

Pirates will quickly find a workaround, but we (and generations of people after us, and landfills and trash heaps of the future) will be stuck with these "bricked" consoles forever.

That fact is that not everyone that is wanting to mess around with their consoles is a 'pirate' you will get it sure, you will never completely obliterate piracy, but this heavy handiness by Nintendo was bound to turn around and bite them in the ass sooner or later (surprised it has taken this long actually)
Will definitely be keeping a close eye to see how this one plays out.

Such a stupid non issue as it's been in the EULA since the Wii days and it's also on Playstation and Xbox.

It's not bricking your console - it's preventing you from accessing Nintendo's servers if caught pirating etc. it does seem to apply to the console rather than the account but that's the price you pay I guess. You can still theoretically play a single player game - you just have zero access to Nintendo's own servers.

Absolutely ridiculous how misquoted this is

I sued Panasonic, they never said i shouldn't use their microwave to dry off my cat! 😉

@NFrealinkling that's not the Issue, the issue is that these banned switch 2's are being resold on the second hand market creating innocent victims here basicly due to nintendo's neglect (and not thinking of this outcome) they are causing a problem, (already can think of your responce "then don't buy used"

2 problems to your argument there

the switch 2 is already expensive (even more so in Brazil ,just type "how much is the switch 2 in brazil?" (I'm not giving you the answer you know how to google) so a lower priced used unit is more appealing in a weaker economy
and 2 if you reread the article some switch 2's that are banned are being returned and not checked for said ban (some smaller shops/chains (ie Gamestop) do check for bans on returns/trade ins walmart does not it seems and restocks the banned units at full MSRP poisoning their stock

Im sorry but im with Nintendo this time, (no "I paid for it so I can do whatever I want with it" BS) and for those going for a second hand Switch, you should do two things before buying:

●If you are in a public place, share internet with your phone so you can check it is not banned from online services.

●Buy only a system that has been factory restored and has no Nintendo account attached (and run the already mentioned test)

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. I do legitimately feel bad for honest MIG users, but my understanding is most MIG users do it to pirate games.

@Lizuka Glad to see this is being challenged, it absolutely should be because Nintendo doing this is absolutely absurd.
That's the original buyers fault and they should be the one blamed here. Nintendo did nothing wrong-if so point it out in the EULA/TOS then????

@Truegamer79

Now that made me laugh..

This is why you always buy something second-hand after testing it in person folks...

@NFrealinkling We both know 90% of people will use this to pirate, but a small percentage of people will just make legal digital back ups of their own games for convenience or for any other reason, and they should be legally fully covered to do that. So yeah, Nintendo shouldn't be allowed to perma ban from online anyone if they can't distinguish back upers and pirates.

@NFrealinkling there's a difference between not letting you hop into splatoon matches and removing all of the core online functionality of a device designed for it. And when people get banned, they sell/return their devices and pass the problem down the line to the rest of us. with webcam being a bigger part of switch 2, and existing flashcarts, there's going to be a lot more banned switch 2s going forward. we've already seen reports of full console bans for content in games, names chosen, text entered.

@MarioLinkSamus but my understanding is most MIG users do it to pirate games.
This is what people do and no one should say otherwise. If it's their own they have the cart of the game for the game.

@Denoloco This is why you always buy something second-hand after testing it in person folks...
That's the point if they are afraid of you verifying it work then that's a red flag already. The Walmart story sounds odd they would test the return unit as there is no link to this story I don't find it creditable here.

I support Nintendo's fight against pirating, it would actually be nice if these people actually got more punishment.

@EriXz I agree with this statement, however I've also seen the ignorance of parents looking to get an affordable deal on a system for their kids. They don't understand that internet access is now an integral part of gaming and piracy is rampant. So, I'm not entirely without sympathy for those parents who don't play or understand video games.

They just see a Switch 2 on Facebook Marketplace for $250-$300 and snag it without a second thought. Then when the system doesn't work, they look at and fault Nintendo for a lack of a solution because the person they bought it from is long gone.

But I do agree, there are plenty of options to test a device, but personally, I'd only buy a device brand new, or used by a reputable retailer that will be willing to exchange it if there is a problem. It really should be a non-issue with the use of common sense.

@dew12333 This is why you always buy something second-hand after testing it in person folks...
Nintendo knows whom NSO account did this it's matter of time before they ban those accounts for violating the EULA/TOS. This will happen.

@EriXz They don't understand that internet access is now an integral part of gaming and piracy is rampant.
Piracy doesn't require internet to happen - the internet makes it easier to pirate but also easier to find them.

They definitely went too far with this one.

@NFrealinkling But the person who committed the offense often isn't the one paying for it. That's the problem.

Once the original user has their console banned, they're just turning their problem around on another unsuspecting victim.

@Jumwa Was going to say. This should really be reflected in the article. It’s disingenuous to say that Nintendo are bricking the console.

However, why restrict the console in its entirety? Don’t PlayStation and Xbox just ban the associated account and not the system? Shouldn’t Nintendo do the same?

@sethfranum well i say otherwise. As above, so below it seems; i put 2 or 3 at a time on my MIG (of fully backed up carts that I own, and never share apart from with family - even those are not on the MIG) in case i lose my physical games. I'd much rather lose (at the time it was new) a £70 cart and SD card than £150 worth of games. At the end of the day, id still have my official cards to prove provenance, and some other schmuck (similar to what others have said - put something that shouldn't be in their S2; in this case a "game" found say on a train) Would end up with no recourse.

I'm fully aware of what nintendo can do, but im playing legit backed up copies of my own games that I know anyone I lend the actual approved and official cartridge won't copy.

Also, when i sell a used game, I delete the ROM from my SD card, and computer, and then empty the recycle bin.

In that respect, yes, I have the game for the game. But not in the way you are implying.

I'm not saying everyone does this by any stretch of the imagination, but there are legit usage cases for this item. It's like saying no one should ever use an external battery pack for S1 / Phone / whatever because its not officially endorsed. The vendors that sold it knew what they were doing, but I personally didn't buy it for those reasons, so please don't throw us all in the same boat. At least differentiate between pure piracy and legitimate reasons.

Thats akin to saying the Black Hats are bad because they do hacking - not quite, but surely you can sit on the fence and see both views, even if the dark side is more promising to 90% of users, unfortunately.

@Jumwa But they want to make the "online services" as much of the functionality of the console as possible. Including being able to access much of those "GameKey" cards you can buy in stores. Therefore, it is "bricking".

How about DON'T STEAL GAMES? Gaming is a very expensive hobby. If you would rather steal then, maybe it is not for you. Sort out your priorities first.

@Lizuka how is it absurd. You steal games you get banned.

@Slideaway1983

Slideaway1983 14:10 BST
@NFrealinkling The problem is defining pirating. I and many others (though we are perhaps in the minority of most use cases) use the MIG on S1 so I don't lose my carts, saving money in the process. Thats not pirating, as I still own the original carts.

you, like those others, are all misinformed. try actually looking at the law you incorrectly use.

that law states you can make a backup copy for archival purposes. not for use.

so there we have it . . . every single person who has been regurgitating this same thing, all this time, is absolutely incorrect

Nintendo is well within their rights here. 99% of people oh use that cart, use it for stealing. If you are using it for archiving or whatever, just buy digital. Nintendo believes it is illegal to copy your physical games. I’m not saying they are right or wrong because it hasn’t come up in court

@MTMike87 Even thou you make a more than reasonable arguments on your post, I don't know if I fully agreed with you. I mean, Im on the older side of things (have 2 kids and reaching 40 years old) and I do test stuff if buying 2 hand. (Assuming this is a generational thing)
Iphones are the some of the most (if not the most) popular phones on the market, I sure anybody who's going to buy a second hand Iphone know it has to be clean from any account.

People have learned to not buy a 2 hand Iphone that as already an Apple account associated with the divice (most of the times those are stolen phones) I guess if what you said is true, people will have to learn that With Nintendo products going forward.

@jco83 thank you. Fair use technically says you can back up your games in case they are stolen not that you can use your copy anywhere you want or obtain a copy from illegal file sharing sites.

@Ajent
Disingenuous, what would you say they are doing to it then.

@Slideaway1983 the reason they're against MiG carts is because you dumped your games, only way to dump switch games is by breaking TOS. I'll ask did you modify your switch to grab the ROM? Btw I'm not against it

I don't agree with them completely bricking the console. You should be able to buy a used console and expect it to work like it should. But no...humans are going to human and always do the wrong thing and take advantage of people.

EULA doesn't supersede consumer rights laws. Anyone supporting Nintendo is completely missing the point. The people getting their consoles banned arent being punished. It's those that buy them second hand and have done nothing wrong that are getting screwed over. "Just buy it new" is the most Nintendo fan boy thing I've heard. "The shops should check it" - have you people returned nothing.? They scan the item and your receipt that's it. The workers arent going to boot up the system and set up a new wifi connection for an issue they've never even heard of. The issue is banning a console is idiotic. They don't ban your account. This means the alleged pirates return their console, get a new one, and have no consequences. Meanwhile anyone else who hasn't done anything wrong gets a console that they cant use to play online or update games. Just like denuvo, it punishes the masses in an attempt to penalize the pirates. Makes no sense to ban a console, ban their account.

@SuperRetroArt They can very well do something about this in this case.. that isn't a very good argument. The secondhand video game market has been around since video games have. Its not like its a new concept and as a software engineer, I can tell you there are ways to correct this.

It is a loathsome practice and should not have been implemented.

I'm not a fan of these draconian measures but i'm of the opinion that if you go down this route on brand new hardware that is online connected then you are asking for trouble.

And let's be honest people aren't using these as a convenient back up, this is a piracy tool and Nintendo were always going to try and stamp it out.

@Slideaway1983 "legit" you said?

This isn't legit by any means (if you are talking about the MIG cart) it is not an official product made by Nintendo, it just seems you are trying to use logic to justify laziness.

Buy a case (to store your games when out of your house) and lern how to take care of things (so you dont lose your cartridges)

@SuperRetroArt except that the liability cant be enforced on a second hand buyer? That's the point, Nintendo could avert this issue entirely by not console banning. Same idea with not advertising game keys as a feature

You can make a new account but you'd lose access to purchases, plus you'd get banned again so what exactly would this do for the alleged pirate???

@jco83 so its illegal to make a copy of something physical in a digital format that i both own and will proactively use privately?

Sorry, but in the UK, that doesnt stick. It's only deemed illegal when I share the file.

Try again.

@Dhaladog it blocks a user from accessing the Nintendo servers. It isn’t bricked though. That implies that it won’t boot to the OS, so it doesn’t even turn on. It is essentially just a ‘brick’ at that point - hence the term.

If Nintendo block your account from their servers, you can still use the device offline.

@EriXz it is legit, just not official.

And im using logic to justify my logic. If you disagree then fine - its my item, after all and I'll do as I please, provided its legally correct.

As for logic, so if you bought something not created by Nintendo (say an unofficial set of joycons) that serve a legitimate purpose but wasn't "legit" (licensed) and nintendo can detect that, they can freeze up any system resource that they please?

@SuperRetroArt yeah, but obviously would not be able to use pirated software or the MiG cartridge again without getting that new account banned. If I’m right, it also means you can’t access digital games you’ve bought on eShop (maybe that’s where the focus of the challenge could lie?).

Of course, some could just use the Switch legitimately and use the MiG cartridge again on an OG Seitch instead. Or emulate on PC if they were so enthusiastic to do so.

@Slideaway1983 Just ignore these guys, they have the smell of boot on their breath and have the logic of 10 year olds when you say their dad doesn't have a cool job

@dePaige22 I'd ban their console AND prosecute them personally, if I had the resources. In my opinion, Nintendo's not bringing down the hammer hard enough.

I don't want to be in the position where I'm defending a giant company, but I'd rather do that than have to do a moral / pseudo-legal tap dance while defending actual criminals.

who knew that ww4 was going to be fought over a stupid console

@SuperRetroArt I am, and I've admitted im a small use case of using it for non-nefarious purposes. I can't stop what nintendo are doing, and if they do something to my console, I admit full responsibility, but I still would have the original carts to prove that I am playing my own carts.

I don't condone piracy the way that many see a MIG as, but im not going to be told that im a pirate by legitimately playing back ups of my own games, under the law of my own country.

Hope that makes sense.

Except that the system still works. The online component is an additional service. EULA protects this practice. I mean I do hope Nintendo loses this because EULA is kinda a bs armor that only corporations get to use... But at the same time I do believe that there needs to be a period where piracy does not occur so the business can make maximum money. I feel like Nintendo should be allowed the system generation to do its business without having to deal with chodes that just don't want to pay for games. The game back up stuff should be allowed as soon as they move on from the system. Like the Switch 1 should be fair game very soon.

ngl, (most of) these guys deserve it. They did hack their system after all.

Plus, as someone else said, if you steal from them, it makes sense for them to block you.

Also, it isso evil to sell those back to the shops! Poor innocent buyers, wanting a cheap switch 2, getting a bricked one instead

The point of it all is that it is unfair for Nintendo to take your money for a device, and then render that device useless, regardless of the circumstances. You paid for it, it should belong to you, and rendering it unusable is destruction of property.

Nintendo may think that it can do whatever it wants, but that should not be true of any entity, person, or company. Because (pay attention) it is not fair to take someone's money and then destroy the thing they bought from you.

Block online access, sure. But you can't just take away the person's Switch and toss in on the ground. What are you, a four year old child, Nintendo?

@Slideaway1983 If you're in the US, you can't "legitimately" play back ups without the express consent of the copyright holder. You're allowed to MAKE back ups for archival purposes, but you technically aren't protected if you use / distribute them without permission.

@MamaSymphonia once again. I nor anyone else is saying piracy is okay. Bet you'd feel differently if your sibling or nephew got a banned switch and they were screwed out of their money even when they did nothing wrong. And sorry but saying you arent defending the big company and then saying you'd personally prosecute is a huge contradiction and some real corporate simp energy. Calm down

@dePaige22 I know youre trying to support me, but hardly helpful 🤣

But I know im in legally grey area here - especially when it comes to international law, but what im doing in my country is fine. I'm happy enough defending it, whilst speaking against actual file sharing piracy, that no one seems to understand im not doing 🤣

@dePaige22 If my sibling was using a MIG, I'd say they deserved what happened and hope they learned a lesson from it.

@SuperRetroArt Old enough to know that ad hominem arguments are typical for 10 year olds like you when their logic breaks down

@FunGuy That's all they are doing, is blocking online access. You can still play offline games.

@LuigiBlood What I find most interesting is where this comes from. Brazil. Known for having some of if not the largest piracy rates.

@MamaSymphonia as said otherwise, im in the UK. I'm aware of the situation. As long as I don't file share (which i dont) I'm ok from a legal.persepective - but thank you for the reasonable and detailed response without digging into me.

@MamaSymphonia your sibling didn't use a mig switch, they got a console banned from someone who did. That's the point the person who did nothing wrong gets punished while the alleged pirate gets off scott free.

@Slideaway1983 Ah ok, I have no idea how it works in the UK haha.

@EriXz well, I mean that's a little unfair. I stored games in the official Zelda case that came with BoTW, and the games fell out of it when I was out and I lost several games. Life happens... That being said that's not a good justification for doing the first part of piracy.

Everyone is going to be touchy about this because it's the same as banning guns. A gun is a device that can be used to do bad crimes. The only way to end gun crime is a gun ban as evident from the countries without guns. But some will always argue against it because they believe they are good people and guns will empower them. Well pirates believe they are good and the mig will empower them so they don't want it banned.

Who is right is a philosophy question. We should at least be able to agree that piracy is not a victimless crime. While it may not hurt Kart sales, it could doom that indie company who expects to sell 30k copies and they find that 15% of those sales are gone because day 1 the game is backed up online.

Who didn't see this happening? Hopefully Nintendo is raked over the coals for this anti consumer garbage

@dePaige22 We'd return it to the store then. Unless you're saying we bought it from some rando on Facebook, in which case, that's money lost and hopefully we'd both learn a lesson not to do that again.

@enigmaxtreme Nintendo has every right to stamp down on piracy and unlicensed software, but nuking a system entirely is just overkill. Surely blocking the account linked to the system should be enough? At least give consumers the ability to unblock a system, perhaps for a fee?

It's the same issue with pirated system in general, if someone bought a second hand Switch 2 then that means Nintendo is not responsible for all the pirated contents on that system. Another reason why pirated or hack Switch 2 is block was because it could contain explicit or illegal activities on there. Remember news of a few customers who bought their kids a pre-owned Nintendo 3DS system only to realize that the system contain hundreds of porn photos and videos on the system.

Nintendo had a reason to block hack system off their online service if they found the system is being caught use in illegal activities. This isn't just something that applies to Nintendo Switch 2, it also applies to every console that are sold in the second hand market that at one point had access to an online network. If you are buying a pre-own console in the future just expect that the system you bought will likely come with contents you may not even expected. Heck I even bought a used Wii Mini three years ago that came contain with hundreds of pirated GameCube games on there and while those doesn't brick my system (the Wii Mini is an offline system after all), a majority of the games are pirated titles that doesn't even work properly with bugs and glitches galore.

@SuperRetroArt I am in your corner, but you're completely overlooking what it means to be poor. People get into bad situations because they don't have the options available to them.

The solution is for resell stores to do a quick check to see if the system can access online, and if it can't, refuse to take it off the seller's hands. Crazy that people are blaming Nintendo for this and not the actual criminals breaking the TOS.

@SuperRetroArt I feel the same reading comments as well, as if they can tell that a hookey game is being used, they can certainly tell that only one legitimate certificate is being used on one device.

If someone changes the coding of the certificate on a MIG dump to make it seem legitimate (and I know its possible, as i fell down the rabbit hole and found out as much about it as I could), then as I said above, nintendo should be able to detect a legitimate cartridge from a bad one. We're in an age of technology. I've honestly nothing to worry about when I know I am the sole owner of the cartridges that I play and don't upload to the Internet.

The physical proof is in a collection of 250 physical games I have in my room - id happily send nintendo the cartridge to prove that I am the sole owner of that certificate, and they can ban anyone else using it.

And this is why im troubled by comments as its really not that hard if nintendo wanted to go about things legitimately with banning / bricking.

If nothing else, it would create more jobs, whilst making sure the right people got banned. Just thinking out loud.

@MamaSymphonia technically a grey area, but legally, private use is fine. Again, thanks for being reasonable.

@IronMan30 Yes, Sony can brick the PS5 too but Nintendo seems to get extra criticism for doing the sane thing as others. I don't know about Xbox.

@Misima
Hello fellow gamer, I don't think its unfair, I just think the other user (to whom I did replied is using logic to justify things the wrong way)
If you happen to have a falty product and end up losing your property, that is unfortunate and im sorry (it has happened to me too so, I feel you mate) having someone braking your car's window and taking stuff away, that is a crime, (it has happen to me too) but you don't see me buying a pirate Samsung tablet or a pirate HP laptop just so I can left my originals at home so they don't get stole or I'd lose em.

IMO, thats not unfair, that's faulty logics

@SuperRetroArt I am not talking about the pirates. I am talking about the family that can't afford the system at all and they see a deal too good to be true and they do it trying to save Christmas or the 13 year old uses their saved money and buy this second hand and the Facebook person vanished after they get the cash.

Don't be so defensive. I am just saying, a lot of people think poor folks are stupid but they are really just willing to take on more risk because they have no other options. The world absolutely sucks and is as indifferent as it gets.

Back 30 years ago you could at least work extra hours, but now companies won't even let you do that for money.

@Misima the problem with philosophy is everyone can be right - again, under my laws, I do not pirate, yet under US I do... if i took my MIG to USA, could I then be prosecuted? Getting into some meta philosophy now 🤣

But seriously, again; I do not condone piracy in the way that most people see the MIG as. I do condone a use case whereby my justification and your accident that you've shared, along with laws of the land converge into a very small 3 circle Venn diagram.

@SuperRetroArt same one as you. You want me to stop the world so you can get off? Sorry. Can't do that 🤣

But im just saying if that was an option to prove i actually owned the item, and it wasn't shared elsewhere, id happily do it.

And thats because... im not a pirate, which has been the while point of me replying to angry people this whole time.

If you are operating legitimately, then you have nothing to hide. We're just going to have to agree to disagree.

@SuperRetroArt you're absolutely hilarious. If that is the hill you wanna die on then you do you buddy. There's obviously not going to be any real logic in this argument.

@NFrealinkling Ban from their servers? Sure. But this is outright disabling full functionality of the console.

@SuperRetroArt give it a rest! When I bought mine, I didn't think "ooh piracy", like James woods with reeces pieces, I thought of a use case that could benefit me personally.

Same as if I buy a dodgy stylus for my Samsung laptop because its cheaper and still works. If I do that am I supporting the triads? Jeesh.

@SuperRetroArt Lol agreed, that dude you're replying to is off his rocker. "I'd happily send Nintendo my cartridge" gotta love preemptivel bowing down to the billion dollar corporation. So eager to please, like a good little consumer.

What do people not understand, you're never EVER going to completely stop piracy it's been going on since the days of yore and will continue long after the Switch 2 is all done and dusted, there's always gonna be people wanting to play free games and will find ways of doing it no matter the cost, all that's going to happen is the hackers finding even cleverer ways around all the security, Switch 2 emulation anyone.. can't wait until all the furore about that one kicks off It'll be like a theme park for all the Nintendo junkies out there!
But anyways back to my main point all that Nintendo can possibly do is take steps in order to mitigate/discourage misuse of the machine without being so bombastic about it all and hurting the innocent consumers.

im on nintendo's side here as well these fools that decided to put mig carts on their switch 2 should of known better not to do it right after the launch.....Wat goes around comes around basically karma.

On Nintendo's part I suppose they could just take an extra step for when a console is banned from online it generates the error code during boot up of the Switch 2 whether you are online or not. It can be similar to the warning screenshot from Wii to wear your wrist strap.

@SuperRetroArt yes i can see its wide open, but can you not see (as I've previously said) i found a use case for me that is not piracy, is not stealing, and helps my personal situation.

Again, not saying piracy is good. Not accepting of it, not telling people to go out and do it. I'm saying I do what I feel is best with my machine, and under my countries current laws, its perfectly acceptable.

Can you just accept that I agree with you on some points, such as piracy; but what im doing is fine in my situation, and useful to me? You may not agree with it, and thats fine.

I've really not been looking for an argument, and some things I've said as an absolute worst case / off the top of my head / joke scenario as I love free thinking (its the way my brain is).

Look, we both agree on one thing, if not the overall thing we're discussing - agree to disagree on that at least. I've no intention of supporting pirates; even if that is what you personally believe, I do not share my ROMS, I do not upload them to the Internet for others to use. I'm actually to a strong extent on your side.

@SuperRetroArt

"If you buy a banned switch you just return it to who you bought it from!? What's the issue?! If you can't do this then you obviously bought it from a disreputable seller and that's on you"

blame the victim, much? 😮‍💨👎

I'm guessing youve been REALLY lucky in your life that you havent gotten screwed by people who presented themselves as "reputable" i e regular people who generally dont wear a hat that says "bad person" across the front. 👍

@LuigiBlood 'It's been happening for years, why do people care now?' It's normal that things fly under the radar for a while before it finally hits a breaking point. Why don't people understand this?

@SuperRetroArt regarding "going out and buying a copy of the game" it doesnt work like that. Each cart has a unique certificate to itself thats logged when you play online. Hence why its possible to tell if a cart is legit to that on the MIG. I dont want to belittle you, but its this kind of reaction to us users that use it for personal use that likes to tar everyone with the "piracy" brush, and exactly why i dont like it.

You would have to be very lucky if you were a pirate with a pirated copy of MK8D AND buy the cartridge with the exact same license code... odds are what? 68m to 1?

Hope that clears up my whole "you can check" arguments.

Brazilian over here, and I'm on the side of Nintendo honestly. Brazil is essentially a sea of piracy, pirated software and hardware make close to 80-90% of the market.

It's a cultural thing since the PS1-PS2 days, due to how easy it was to pirate games at that time.

@SuperRetroArt

"how is it Nintendos fault?!"

how is what Nintendo's fault?

@Slideaway1983

Slideaway1983 15:18 BST
@jco83 so its illegal to make a copy of something physical in a digital format that i both own and will proactively use privately?

Sorry, but in the UK, that doesnt stick. It's only deemed illegal when I share the file.

Try again.

i cannot find that info. can you please link the source ? 🙏

i can find this info: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/exceptions-to-copyright

Technological protection measures

EU and UK law protects the right of copyright owners to use TPMs to protect their works, and circumvention of such technology is illegal.

@SuperRetroArt believe me, I can take a hit on my SW1 being bricked, and waaaaay above why I said i wasn't "dumb" enough to use it in a SW2. I'm always well aware of risks (even if i believe them to be negated by my diligence, you never know with nintendo haha!), hence why its staying in my SW1. SW2 is for switch 2 only, believe me!

And yes, I understand the logistical nightmare- thats one one of the "off the top of my head" things I mentioned. It's actionable, but at what cost? Equally, as i (again) said waaaaay above, they could also ask the user (if they believe them to be using a rom) to insert the actual cartridge (would take resources such as firmware update, blah blah) or be disconnected until they do so.

Fiiiiiiiinally; yes the codes can be altered; but if the person with the original cartridge was to get the above theoretical warning, they could do it, nintendo do a quick license check (as its obvious from prior actions they can detect an actual legit cart or not) and away the cartridge owner gies with little relative fuss, whereas the one that can't verify gets their console bricked.

Look, thats all theoretical, and no nintendo dont want to check everything; but if they are taking this as seriously as they are, they will think of something. There's probably a much more efficient way of doing it, but thats my layman's way of looking at it.

It's possible. It's relatively easy (from my perspective), and if the original cart is to hand, then you have nothing to worry about.

@Denoloco yes, by dmca exemption it's legal to make (1) back up for personal use as long as the original copy remains in your pocession and 2) you don't distribute it by any means nintendo seems to think otherwise and has (yet) tried to lobbty for change (which I'm glad for) also on emulators the precident from Sony V Bleem still stands to this day making emulators legal as long as the emu is clean roomed reverse engineered (basicly 2 teams work on it one studies how the real hardware work takes notes, 2nd team reads notes and builds an emulator devoid of illegal code and keys (so no looking at leaked SDK's just using coding talent), I'd like to point out Team Ninja is in the wrong (programming studio of the dead or alive series) for including Reverse engineering is prohibited by law) in their piracy warning which is false (if done right see above)

@NFrealinkling it would be different if it were a piracy situation but, many of the folks with bricked consoles were trying to play their own games from a MigSwitch card.

Some of us travel for a living, and take a portable console along for the portability. Sometimes things get lost, stolen or destroyed for what ever reason. I'd rather loose only a piece of $300 hardware and an $80 MigSwitch with an $80 microSD card VS loosing $800 [ thats only 10-12 retail games ] in games along with the console too!!!

I totally disagree with your sentiment as those MigSwitch cards can store YOUR ACTUAL PURCHASED commercial games with all the security files the Switch generates upon loading a game card. Sure folks can play pirated downloads but, thats not the norm of the people getting their consoles banned from NSO.

However, Nintendo will still let you download console updates with that dreaded error code.... just no access to games you purchased already and none of the NSO emulators. It's hogwash!!! The services have been paid for, the games have been purchased, the files being played are legit.... but still ban a console for leaving the actual game cards at home?

You do realize the Switch game cards are JUST a storage medium, no different than a MicroSD card! There are no other special chips inside those cards.....bunless you bought a Key Card game, then it has even less!

@SuperRetroArt

"When someone buys a banned console on the second hand market. How is that Nintendos fault. That is the whole crux of this discussion"

that's not the "crux" of anything, it's just the point you've fixated on because you think you've got a winner. respectfully. 👍

the point is that Nintendo is responsible for their policies, not that they are at fault in some way. this is a red herring.

my point is that policies that lead to bad experiences for good faith customers, and senseless electronic waste polluting our earth are bad policies, particularly when they arent demonstrated to actually prevent anything in the first place.

my other point is the very use or possession of this device doesnt equal "piracy," only piracy is piracy. do you know what "piracy" is? lots of people on these comments that agree with you do not. ✌️

@Slideaway1983 if they allowed us to install the games from the card it wouldn't be a problem! All a switch game card is, is a storage medium. There aren't any other special chips to make the game run more efficiently....nor else Gamefreak would've used them in Pokémon Violet for it to run better on the Switch 1!

I'm just done with Nintendo's crap.... not buying a switch 2... as I surely refuse to pay $80 for any game!

If Hollywood can sell movies for lass than $50 and musicians can sell records and CDs for less than $40.... the game industry is capable of it too!!!

@NFrealinkling If they need to restrict you from their servers, why not ban the account, not the console?

Well I think it’s very obvious who we need to block to keep from being exposed to the massive amounts of shilling…

@NFrealinkling No see you don't seem to understand how this works. The account is not banned, just buy a new console and log in. The hardware is banned and no account can sign in on that hardware. That means that if you buy a second hand banned console, you won't be able to log in with your account either. The console is severely limited and you may not even be able to set it up, in other words...bricked. Still on Nintendo's side?

@Dhaladog What do people not understand, you're never EVER going to completely stop piracy it's been going on since the days of yore and will continue long after the Switch 2 is all done and dusted, there's always gonna be people wanting to play free games, all that's going to happen is the hackers finding even cleverer ways around all the security, Switch 2 emulation anyone.. can't wait until all the furore about that one kicks off! But anyways back to my main point all that Nintendo can possibly do is take steps in order to mitigate/discourage misuse of the machine without being so bombastic about it all and hurting the innocent consumers.

Nintendo's goal was never about preventing piracy. Their goal is to separate the hackers and their legit customers. It is their way of putting their customers in safety while the hackers get what's coming to them. Think of it this way, online is Heaven and Nintendo is God and the hackers are the sinners. Once you become a sinner then you are separating yourself from God therefore like Nintendo if your system is pirated then are separating yourself from everyone who system were not hack which therefore you are banned from entering online and anything that had to do with online a.k.a. Heaven. The only way you could redeem yourself is to repent to get to Heaven, in the case of Switch 2 repenting is you buying a brand new Switch 2 that was not hack yet (a.k.a. not sin yet) that way you are no longer associated with the banned console (the sinner). If you die as a sinner then you go to Hell, if your Switch 2 die as a banned console then it goes to the equivalent of Hell, the trash.

Not condoning piracy of video games, but I'll admit to being curious about the MIG cartridge to put a single cart in with copies of a couple of my legally owned games to be able to travel with those instead of having to also keep all of the cartridges. That seems like a pretty decent trade-off for legally owned games that I may not want to lose the original carts for.

As for the bricking - if Nintendo just blocks their online access with those consoles, that's reasonable. If they completely render the hardware inoperable - not so much. And of course, if you get a false positive on one of those brickings, what recourse do you have?

@nessisonett 100% agree, like if you modified your car, the car dealer has the right to deny you a warranty and service for the car but they didn’t have the right to disable your car.

@Truegamer79 Except Panasonic had no hand in you breaking your microwave or killing your cat. All they did was sell you a microwave. Not comparable here because Nintendo is the one banning consoles.

Nintendo absolutely are bricking the consoles. Retracting access to online services means that backwards compatibility won't function, game keys also can't be used, as well as any Switch 2 carts that require an update. No registering new users, access to the store or online play. It can be turned on, but the console is so gimped functionality-wise, it's practically e-waste at that point.
Nintendo aren't just doing this in response to insertion of a MIG cartridge (a legal device in many jurisdictions), but also in response to user names it considers undesirable. Apparently someone was banned for using a key purchased from a third-party seller.
Sony was challenged in respect to banning PS5 consoles, by the same Brazilian consumer protection body. They lost, and were forced to reverse the bans. This is just the first consumer protection body to challenge Nintendo over this, it's just the tip of a very bad PR iceberg.
What about right to repair legislation vs modification? I see trouble ahead for NIntendo.

Another reason to wait to buy a SW2 after this whole beta test is over.

Will probably get mine whenever I can dualboot safely in android while not playing games in OFW.

Hacked SW1 is a beast but a weak beast. For SW2 I only want the same but with better hardware, that would be a dream.

@Jumwa someone may have already replied to you, but if you factory reset a banned switch 2, you can no longer connect to the internet to set it up, bricking the system… so yes, this can brick a system

I'm not for piracy in any way, but what Nintendo is doing here feels completely gross to me.
I feel like I now don't actually own my Switch 2 console. Nintendo could at any moment, for any reason they want, render my console esentially useless, with no recourse. That sort of unchecked power is scary even for a legitimate user like myself, because you never know the criteria they might have. Perhaps you buy a used copy of a game that someone has dumped to a MiG cartridge, without you knowing, and when the dumped copy of the game is played at the same time as you're playing the copy you bought, that might be enough for Nintendo to decide to ban your console.
Maybe they're not doing that right now, but there is nothing to stop them from deciding to do that later. They can move the goalposts whenver they want, to whatever they want.

Maybe they don't like unlicensed manufacturers making accessories for the Switch 2, and decide to ban your console for using an unlicensed accessory. I mean why not? They could count that as modifying your console. And if they don't do that, why would they ban you for using a MiG cartridge without credible evidence of not using your unique copy of a cartridge.

I seriously doubt what they are doing is legal in the EU, I would be shocked if that were the case. Consumer protections are serious business there, and I really hope they get challenged by the EU.

Its a fine line, I think Nintendo clearly stepped over.

While I fully supoort Nintendo's right to restrict online access to their servers for online play for players that cheat and pirate, outright bricking a players console so its unusable even for offline play is too far. No console update or software updates.

@SuperRetroArt

I suggest you read a bit more.

I don't have time to write a big long answer, but what I will say is:

The Switch OS and on-line environment is a effectively a closed eco-system, where Nintendo effectively signs any code running within that eco-system - whether that be software running from game cards or downloaded via the eShop.

Cards such as the MIG effectively allow unsigned code to run within that ecosystem, creating countless points of entry for malicious code - malware, viruses, cheats etc. It's a massive risk to Nintendo to allow a compromised machine to access its on-line infrastructure and potentially wreak havoc.

I won't go into further detail since I'm supposedly working, but I can absolutely understand Nintendo's desire to cut this off at the source. They're understandably protecting themselves against piracy and revenue loss, but there's potentially much larger risks involved here.

@solarwolf07

solarwolf07 17:09 BST
@Jumwa someone may have already replied to you, but if you factory reset a banned switch 2, you can no longer connect to the internet to set it up, bricking the system… so yes, this can brick a system

this is false. set up does not require online connection. do not perpetuate false heresay

I’m all for efforts to circumvent a consoles security for preservation. Especially as things move towards digital only and we get stuff like game key cards- I’m rooting for the hacking community to ensure that when the servers are shut down one day I can still download those games I’ve bought and continue to use them as intended long after Nintendo/third parties have decided they don’t want to provide what I’ve paid for.

Having said that, when a console is still current and supported making hacks public only opens things up to problems even if the intentions are sound. Bans from online services sounds about right (though what I’m hearing about totally bricking units is too far IMO).

@SuperRetroArt

By not allowing them to use the machine the way it was intended.

Good. More governments need to push back on this.

@Serpenterror

A good 'logical' point, yeah OK then.

This is great news! Nintendo deserves to be in hot water over this.

Just to give some context. Bear in mind I am brazilian, although not a lawyer.

Any product officially sold in Brazil has to work as intended and as advertised by the company responsible for the product, independently of intended usage.

According to national law, no company can make their products stop working because of any reason after it was sold. It is up to the buyer do whatever he wants with it, as long as it doesn't go against the law. If it goes, it is up to the law enforcements do something about it, and even then they can't simply destroy it or take it.

In this specific case, PROCON is not saying that Nintendo cannot ban people from using their services. What they can't do is brick the console because of any reason after it was sold. Jailbreak it, disassemble it, throw it in the bing, break it in half, doesn't matter. It is up to the owner do whatever he wants with it.

If he uses it to pirate games, or any kind of media; if he uses it to storage illegal data of any kind; or, worse, if he uses it to do any kind of actual crime, such as turning it into a terrorist bomb, then Nintendo can report it to the authorities, and the authorities will take the appropriate measures. But even if a crime is being commited, it is not up to Nintendo to enforce anything. It is up to the police and judges.

In fact, Sony lost a lawsuit here, last year, because of that. They bricked people's consoles because they did something that violated their EULA. They were sentenced to give new consoles to all that were affected, plus some money.

@LuigiBlood because piracy tools are getting better and more prevelent. And unlike in the past where a new console was a fresh slate immune to piracy for a while ... It's happening right away.

I'm on Nintendo's side with the ban. Using piracy capable stuff like that is in violation I of user agreements first.

However what I don't approve of is not being able to unban a console you purchase. Nintendo needs to make it so showing proof of purchase after ban gets it unbanned. Meaning you didn't get it banned, someone else did.

@LuigiBlood
I think more eyes were on the idea of console banning after the EULA change which made it more transparent (edit:as others mentioned there are also more tools that could potentially enable it with switch compared to playstation or xbox)

Though while this isn't a new thing (i remember seeing similar discussions with other systems such as xbox's and ps5s of people being sold Banned consoles) im glad issues of such a practice on legitimate consumers such as second-hand buyers is being looked at alongside any other flaws regarding said practice (such as contributing to e-waste)

@Slideaway1983 I totally see that a third option might be best, but as you said, how you use them is probably in the minority. I feel like people act like if you buy something physical you’re entitled to it even if you lose it. When you buy a physical switch game, you’re not paying for access to the game like you are with digital, you’re paying for the physical cartridge and that alone. If you tend to lose cartridges then you can always buy digital or buy a replacement for a lost one. I’m not trying to be mean, but you are copying their game without their permission

@chrisrlink I do think that that’s a big issue, and I wouldn’t discourage from buying used, actually. I usually try to buy a console used, in fact. I just think that the buyers and/or companies when they get a purchase/return, they should check the system first. It shouldn’t be that hard to turn the system on, and if it’s bricked then return it to the seller, or don’t except the return. All it requires is for the people to be a bit more vigilant

@Denoloco if you need a backup that bad then just buy digital. The possibility of losing it has always just been a symptom of buying physical

@Prapper then maybe self destruct features on the consoles would work better? 🤔

@huroma the problem is authorities won't do ***** against most people pirating games. Unless they're stealing thousands of dollars worth of games alone or selling stolen goods it isn't worth their time.

And banning accounts just keeps them out of the store, plus making a new account isn't hard.

To a certain degree this is the only way they can even try to stop piracy. Now I'm not saying Nintendo is faultless either ... This approach of theirs needs some work. Especially with bricked consoles getting resold.

Really if nothing else Nintendo should probably allow stores to unbrick them and if that gets abused sue the store. Easier than trying to send the authorities after everyone that does it.

@KingMike buyers need to be more aware of who they buy from. If you buy a bricked console, just return it to the scumbag seller

@Gedrick if you’re willing to cheat them out of money to get their games, they can do the same to you

@RejectedAng3L if you want to keep your games that safe, just buy digital

I refuse to believe they did not predict this, this is one of the dumbest moves by Nintendo yet. By an absolute miracle they avoided an "always internet on" Xbox backlash scale disaster

@Kostan because the scummy practice of piracy needs to be discouraged completely

@Crono1973 Yes

@Slideaway1983 Did you read the EULA at all? The MIG isn't part of the Nintendo approved device. They most likely reverse engineered the MIGFlash and block it hardware else and built reporting tools into the hardware and software to report this back to Nintendo. And whom to verify the user is Pirating or not? The time it takes to take game out and switch is minor and little effort. I got one myself but never worked on my OLED so I just went back to cart switching. People use the Dumper and hacked Switches to copy game and insert codes to cheat or hack Nintendo Servers that isn't how one games ethically. Most general consumers never do this nor need MigSwitch for this purpose as they have a small collections of games to go back and forth to. So anyone defending this isn't doing a good job here.

@Metazoxan Not up for debate, really. It is either Nintendo does as it is told, since any company acting in national soil has to comply to our laws, or they give up their market share here. In that scenario, it is not officially sold here anymore, which used to be the norm, and people who buy their consoles through scalpers are on their own (which usually boosts piracy around here).

Now, on a more personal note, I will never understand people who are willing to give up on the ownership of their own products in order to benefit multi-billion companies, but it seems very common on Nintendo and Apple sites. It feels like a cyberpunk dystopia.

@larryisaman true, too many great games hsve been lost to the sands of time. Games that are impossible to get nowadays would all be forever forfeit if not for backups and emulators. Of course I am talking about cases like Rule of Rose of Melfand Stories

Brazilian law is very strict with this. some kind of content is illegal in a contract, even it was wrote by the user. You LEGALLY CAN'T abdicate your rights, even if you want. Só, if the law understand you have the right to do what you want with the console you paid, you can use mig switch. Legally, in Brazil, Nintendo could block access to new content in your account, but even in your account they are obligated to let you use the content you already paid for

@NFrealinkling Unbelievably juvenile oversimplification of a complex issue.

Apple and Samsung already lost for Procon-SP in Brazil. They was obligated to advise every user to ask for a free wall plug for smartphones that don't have one in the box

@Anti-Matter Not necessarily. I'm sure many do use it for pirating games. I've used it on my switch one so I can carry all my games on one cart when I travel. I think Nintendo needs a difinitice way to confirm that the user is in fact using a pirated game before they ban a console. I'm not sure how they would do that, but it's unfair to those who use it honestly and still get banned.

@NFrealinkling exactly, I'm not sympathizing with anyone who got their console bricked. They knew what they were doing. Why should I give an f? Stealing is stealing. Nothing absurd about a company trying to protect their products. If someone gets away with it oh well, I don't care, but don't come back crying when you're caught. The only people complaining here are obviously the ones that want to do this or have been. Actual consumers aren't concerned about Nintendo bricking their switch since they're not part of the problem.

Do you ever have anything positive to say?
Like ever?
If people got their system pricked they deserved it. (Bricked... Freudian slip)
Why are you framing this like the company is the bad egg here?

@NFrealinkling Agreed, but at the same time I am sure you can see how this is contributing to E-waste and will only hurt the consumer more. I agree in the fact that the account ( and to an extent the hardware) should be banned from online play, but banning the console from the E-shop is what is making the system a brick. With practically majority of carts either being E-cards or switch 1 titles with an upgrade patch to switch 2. Then the consumer is unable to access and play the games they paid for.

We could go on about the Mig Switch, but in the end that is unsigned code running on the switch. The bigger issue is as a youtuber I saw put it. It makes the consumer scared to try anything that isn't first party. Just like Apple users are they get scared to waste money on anything 3rd party because an update might render the expensive better working cable as non legit. Same with Switch 2. I wanted to buy a game switcher after seeing how convenient it would be to leave my switch docked and be able to easily swap out games. Now with the switch 2 I am feeling uneasy about doing so because I fear something in Nintendo might trigger the game switcher as a rom or something even though I would be using actual cartidges I own.

@Jar316 actual consumers are concerned because it affects the 3rd party hardware situation as well as the refurbished market making more pointless E-waste.

@Kintovere the thing with the MIG cart is it uses ROMs, so even if it was legitimately backed by the owner. Sadly that goes against Nintendo's TOS ( they prohibit making digital backups of games you own). Either way it's sliced the MIG cart is against their TOS. The concern i have is would something like a game switcher also trigger a ban. It really sets a precedent for being wary about buying 3rd party hardware since you never know what can trigger a ban.

I find it completely bonkers that some here are angry at Nintendo for unscrupulous people selling or returning their nerfed switch 2 consoles. I'm going to use nerf because the it's totally incorrect to say bricked.

@huroma none of Nintendo's consoles were bricked. You could still use physical games

@larryisaman I wouldn't worry about server shut downs since you can STILL redownload Wii games.

Don't all the other companies have similar policies? Everyone who hacks their switch knows you don't take it online. It was like that with the first switch.

I think Nintendo is on their rights to ban you from their service if you break their rules. Again like any other console out there.

@kabal82 they're not banned from offline play though. Where did you read that?

@huroma Now, on a more personal note, I will never understand people who are willing to give up on the ownership of their own products in order to benefit multi-billion companies, but it seems very common on Nintendo and Apple sites. It feels like a cyberpunk dystopia.
I know you have a smartphone and that gives out way more details on your everyday life. Also your internet your using to connect to NL why are you on the internet if your talking about giving money away to corporations your giving them your Data already?

@RCGamer Legally, in Brazil, Nintendo could block access to new content in your account, but even in your account they are obligated to let you use the content you already paid for
Please provide the legal links to this comment?

@CommanderTaco no one should be trying to circumvent the system by stealing a product, same reason you shouldn't shop lift. That's the source of the problem.

@NFrealinkling yeah. For use their servers is reasonable. But they are doing much more than this.
I advice you inform yourself about the matter.

@nessisonett exactly

@Kintovere Not necessarily. I'm sure many do use it for pirating games. I've used it on my switch one so I can carry all my games on one cart when I travel.
It's mostly for pirating let's not go smoke and mirrors about this issue. Then get a carry case that holds the Switch and game carts or a Hori 24 to hold the games.

@sethfranum, I am pretty sure you replied to the wrong person. We are not talking about the same thing at all.

Also, about your answer to @RCGamer, if you don't mind me answering, it is the same principle that prevents them from bricking your console. It is called Direito de Propriedade, and you can find it in our Constituição Federal.

And thats great That Brazilian has this Organizations That defends comsumers because individually what can we do against a Nintendo, a Sony, A Tesla, A meta...

@dcasotti *For use their servers is reasonable. But they are doing much more than this.
I advice you inform yourself about the matter.*
For what other purpose are you referring to here? This is for piracy and game cheating to hack the Nintendo Server or cheat online. MigFlash says backup but most general consumer never use that many games that would require a MigFlash.

@huroma I find it odd one uses the law wording but won't give links to what exactly they are referring to here? Doesn't that strike this as odd to you. If your going to use the Law then tells us where and links to what that exactly says that.

Always love people who want to pretend the card doesn't enable piracy except for some extreme fringe. Yeah, just like homebrew, I'm sure 99.9% of people are only doing entirely legal things with this. Won't someone please think of the poor well to do definitely real legions of travelling businessmen who absolutely need to carry a collection of 100 carts and are so terribly inconvenienced by having to pack multiple tiny switch carts in their bags? At most I've taken the single Switch case with 8 carts with me on trips. Usually, it's just whatever is in the slot.

Maybe if people didn't get so hung up on hypothetical scenarios and Nintendo hate B's, the actual conversation could move forward which is regarding whether or not game makers as a whole should be able to dictate usage. Answer is they shouldn't, but Sony got away with wiping OtherOS and people can't play WoW outside of Blizz's servers so the precedent is never going to be on that side.

At most Nintendo will pay some pennies out on a class action lawsuit and they'll just find another way to squeeze people and their foolish need to fight the powah instead of just enjoying the games and waiting until the generation is over to do the homebrewing.

i don't care if pirates get away with it anyway, gamers aren't smart with their money, if they like it they'll throw some at it and recommend it, but additionally this is going to be a problem for randos that didn't do anything and way down the line.

It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer

We had to wait for Brazil to finally see an official complaint. Shame on all other countries for not having done anything yet.

I didnt pay The winrar license...
Time to buy another laptop

@sethfranum If you are particularly interested, Direito de Propriedade is written under Artigo 5º da Constituição Federal, and about the rules of more specific scenarios, such as this, you can also check Código do Consumidor, which is an entire codex that serves both as reference and law for such situations.

You can google it under two minutes. It is all written in portuguese, though.

@Coalescence Whataboutism and the comment sections go hand in hand pretty much all the time.

@CommanderTaco I see what you’re saying, and I do think what they’re doing isn’t perfect, but it is the best solution, in my opinion, to a big issue

@dcasotti I know they’re doing much more, and I think they’re totally justified

Nintendo isnt responsible for people selling broken items. Those buyers can go after the lowlifes that sold them junk.

@SirLink Shame on Brazil thinking a company needs to protect people from lowlifes. Should Ford have to replace a car that was sold after the safety system was bypassed and now doesnt run?

@WiltonRoots indeed. We have people openly and loudly defending unscrupulous people who have either sold their knowingly nerfed console for money or gotten a full refund.

Brazil's consumer rights watchdog will lose this, they're arguing about something they assume they have, yes the users have rights to the device, but not the services that the device connects to. The district difference is the product is the hardware, not additional services on the hardware. Yes you can't use a keycard type game once your banned, I could also argue you can buy a serial key to a game online for a system you don't have access to, are you going to sue them too?

Also those who argue they are using the mig switch to play their own backups, no console in history has ever allowed the user to play his or her backups on original hardware, why would it be the case now?

This lawsuit was dead on arrival, if they win they would also be able to go after Sony, Microsoft as well. It's not going to happen, and even if it does, Nintendo just pulls out of that market.

This should be law across all countries regardless of what console and what Nintendo fan boys say. If I am paying a company $600 for a console I should be able to do it with what I please. It's like those illegal "warranty void if removed" stickers that companies still try to use that are illegal.

All the console manufacturers have been able to do this for a couple of generations so why are people now suddenly making a big deal of it for Nintendo?

GOOD! Finally!

@ChakraStomps that doesn't make any sense and you know it.

This is an attempt to combat piracy, of course. I think that it's a good approach to a problem, but could be better. I think the combination of an email and a device serial should be the indicator if an device is banned or not.

So even if you make a new email and use the same switch to try to insert the MiG again, it will just ban you again, instead of bricking the entire console.

@Sgtkeebler that's never been the case for any console manufacturer

@Amatossy The problem with that is emails are infinite, which means the ban has no real teeth, pirates will just sign out of their real account, sign in with a throw away account then play unauthorized copies of games, it doesn't matter if their account gets banned because they will just make a new one.

Banning the hardware is a lot better because unless the person pirating is a billionaire who just doesn't care and can buy a new switch everytime, the piracy stops. And banning your console isn't bricking it, you can still play any games you have downloaded, and any games that are fully on a cartridge.

@MagiKnight I see your point. Then, I'd raise you another criteria point. Link the email, serial number, and IP address to the constraint. Sure you can have your ISP give you a new IP address each time, but that's significantly more annoying.

To your statements, I just don't think that this will indeed stop pirating as people will find other workarounds. This also, causes the harm to the second hand market. Although I just had a thought, Nintendo should release a serial number checker to ensure that the console is in good standing or not.

@enigmaxtreme when has Nintendo ever nuked a system in its entirety? They've never totally bricked a console as far as I know.

Even now, these affected Switch 2 systems can still play offline games on physical cards

@MagiKnight Just a few corrections.

It is not a lawsuit. For now, it is more of an "asking for clarifications". If they still disagree how the EULA was written down, they will order Nintendo to change it. After it, Nintendo can challenge them with a lawsuit, which would be a total waste of money.

The thing is, PROCON rarely, if ever, loses. Despite many flaws, Brazil has this one quality: in cases like this, our legal system always side with consumers. So, in the end, it always come down to the companies doing as they are told or not. If not, then they will be withdrawn from the market.

PROCON also already went for other companies, incluiding Sony/Playstation, Apple and Samsung — all of which complied to the demands (e.g. iPhones are still shipped with chargers here, since it was deemed by PROCON as anti-consumer to do otherwise). All of them challenged our watchdogs with a lawsuit, all of them lost.

I'm indifferent to most of this. Every person who I've seen talk about their console being "bricked" has been stupid about their pirating and is now suffering from FAFO, but I'm not gonna go to bat for the billion dollar company to have total control over a console I bought either. I'll just be watching this unfold while I wait to buy more Switch 2 games.

@chrisrlink

Naw the used market isn't Nintendo's responsibility at all since they don't sell refurb switch 2's. People will ruin anything and this is no different. Just wait for a PC emulator if you just have to play these games without paying for them or if you are just into homebrew you should never expect every device to play nice in that environment. Also, there's never been more handhelds and handheld PC's out there for this exact thing. It's not a very warranted case to buy a switch 2 to mod it and play super Mario world on it like the other 30 devices you likely already have.....the switch also just has Mario world on it already.

@Lizuka maybe people shouldn't pirate software and then they won't get banned? Seems pretty obvious and straightforward, why is there an issue?

@Hababam maybe blame the pirates? They get caught pirating (screwing Nintendo) then they return it (screwing innocent consumers).

Blame the right people lol

@SuperRetroArt so it's fine for the pirate who got banned to sell or return their useless Switch? Get a clue

@TimothyjFeeley they're openly supporting those who knowingly sell or return for resale an item which they pretend is full working order. They don't give a ***** whether someone else loses money because they can always blame Nintendo

No system has been bricked. It simply doesn't let you access the Nintendo servers. If you put in a game that doesn't require an update or access to online it will work.

And that slight difference is how they'll most likely get around most court cases.

I'm glad to see this being challenged. It would never affect me anyway, but it's still absurd. Unless they give the consoles away for free they should not have this ability to brick consoles.

@nessisonett Microsoft did the same thing when they caught players using modded 360s. I got bricked shortly after MW2 released. Learned my lesson about pirating and had to buy a new 360. So sure it seems like it's a bit much, but they're hardly the first company to do this. I'm willing to bet most of the ppl saying they weren't using pirated software with their mig cartridges are lying

@BloodWolfe I got my 360 banned for having it modded, had to buy a new 360 to play online again, so yeah I'm with Nintendo on this. Bottom line every console maker does this.

@DetJayT I have Xbox 360 E with Aurora and still can play online on it

@huroma because it's not about giving up ownership. It's about not breaking the rules. You can lose the rights to things if you abuse those rights. It's not distopian unless it's applied to an extreme. But that's true for any rule.

Just because you own the console doesn't mean your now free to just hack it, steal their code, and then use that to steal their games.

If Nintendo or any company bricked a console for reasons besides something potentially related to piracy that would be one thing.

It's like a car. Just because you bought a car doesn't mean you don't lose that car if you do something illegal with it. You own the car, but if you insist on breaking the law with it they will take it away.

That's true for any company. It's just a matter of what they deem an important enough violation to act on.

Luckily for nintendo then that they’re above the law.

@Dr_Corndog I don’t want to disappoint anyone, but there is no “Switch 2 situation” like one you’re implying. The situation is that it’s the most successful console launch in history, and there is one minor legal challenge in Brazil to a single practice, which will be at most amended by Nintendo if necessary.

@Metazoxan

Well, let's agree to disagree.

Free to steal their code? Surely not. Use it to steal their games? Even worse. Hack it, though? I feel quite entitled to it, personally. Just like an automobile, I can do whatever I want with it as long as I don't break any laws. And even then, only law enforcements can take it away from me, not the brand I bought from.

I believe the dystopia kicks in when we start to say that it is fine to be forbidden, by a company nonetheless, to do something inofensive as hacking a product I own because one of the possible usages of it is something imoral and/or illegal.

Not only I don't quite own the thing I bought to have, since a company, without any legislation whatsoever to back it up mind you, but I also am punished for a potential error. Meaning it doesn't matter if I actually do something wrong or not. The possibility of it is enough to take it away from me.

I personally can't see how anyone supports that. It is beyond me, really, but I see it regularly on sites like here, so it is not that uncommon. I am just happen to live in a country that don't let stuff like that fly.

On a final note, I believe stating that "you can lose the rights to things if you abuse those rights" is a bit naive when the judge of that is a profitable company. The difference between bricking a console because of potential piracy (since we are talking about bricking it simply for jailbreaking a piece of hardware) and bricking "a console for reasons besides something potentially related to piracy" is non-existent when the company itself gets to decide.

Nintendo is not a state. You don't get to appeal in a court of mushrooms or something. If they can do so in one instance, they can do so in whichever other they find fitting. And if you don't agree, well, tough luck. Agreeing or not, it is still their product, and they would still get the final say. And if your country also does not see anything wrong about them making these calls, the reasoning does not matter.

It is either they can do it because it is their product and they keep control over it, or they cannot do it because of ownership infrigiment. The morals not only are relative and flimsy, but barely matters in a legal matter such as this.

Personally, I don't see it being similiar to having a car. At all. Unless you are losing the car to Ford/Toyota/Chevrolet/BYD, after doing something illegal, instead of letting it be taken by the police. Literally the type of stuff you would see in a Cyberpunk media.

Anyway, thankfully we have PROCON. And EU have great legislation about it too, so no worries there too. Not sure about UK, though. And USA, well...

@Amatossy Courts already decided IP addresses aren't proof of anything, so it's still a nothing burger.

@DetJayT oh I know others have done this and it's usually blocking online access but not a full bricking of the system. Modding it shouldn't get bricked and totally unusable because if someone paid for it, it's theirs. If they mod to cheat then block online access, but should still be usable offline since it's not a leased or rented item, it's owned and now the buyers personal property.

I don't mod or cheat, etc so it would never affect me, but I don't agree with bricking systems.

@Amatossy given how easy it is to spoof IP addresses that idea is a little too flawed.

@BloodWolfe then everything is fine here cos no Switch 2 unit has ever been bricked. They're still useable offline

@cedarhyped Do a bit of poking around and you'll probably understand what I was talking about.

@jsty3105 oh, I read another article a couple days ago or late last week that some had fully been bricked. Maybe they used the wrong word or I misread but pretty sure it said "bricked". I'll try to find that article later and re-read it.

That said, it is in the TOS that they can brick consoles, and that shouldn't be the case.

If none have been bricked then great, bans fine.

@BloodWolfe I'm 100% sure they're using the term bricked incorrectly - like how (frustratingly) most gamers use the term - The console no longer works online.

The reporting on the TOS is a classic case of gaming media choosing a narrative and running with it instead of being level-headed.

To me, it's frustrating that the term 'bricked' in gaming media has lost it's original meaning. Now, any account ban = bricked.

@LuigiBlood All consoles since the original Xbox.

@nessisonett good that you agree about banning from online play and revoking of services because that's what Nintendo did. The console still works. Just not online. None have been bricked.

Nintendo needs to be held to account. They do a lot of anti consumer bs these days. I hope something comes from Brazil going after them and trickles down to all other countries.

@Elitepatriot why? Why not the people brazenly selling or returning knowingly nerfed consoles for refunds?

under the DMCA, even "legitimate" use of a mig switch is illegal.
yes there is an exemption to copyright for personal backups, but this unfortunately explicitly does not permit circumvention of copy protection mechanisms.
which is exactly what you are doing by extracting the key file from the cartridge and copying it to your mig switch microSD.
this is 1 of the things that got yuzu in trouble.

on top of that, any company has a right to deny you service unless it's based on you being part of a protected class.
a right they remind you of in their EULA.

@jsty3105 Ya true, they likely misused the word, typical media these days. You make a good point.

I don't get why people making such a big deal about this? Nintendo has already been banning online access for pirates on Switch 1 and no one really made a fuss about it.

Anyone with a hacked Switch 1 knows the moment they connect to the internet without a server blocker while having pirated software on the nand, it's an instant ban. You don't even need to be running a game, as soon as Nintendo servers detects that you have unofficial software, you're banned.

It's funny how naive these migswitch users think they can get away with using it online without consequences. Even Sony banned PS3s using CFW back in the day. As a hacked Switch 1 user, I have no sympathy for them.

Also, stop calling it a "brick". The console is still usable. You just can't do anything that requires access to Nintendo servers. Whoops, this also means you can't update your system. There is no way to update a banned Switch 2 for the time being.

@NFrealinkling if purchasing isn't owning, piracy isn't theft hope this helps!

@Slideaway1983 yes, is right there in the user terms of agreement.
But please don't let me (or anyone for thst matter) prevent you for using your MIG cartridge on your console, no need to let me know how that works for you.

@NFrealinkling fine, but shouldn't they have to prove that you've actually pirated something? It is completely legal to make backups of your own games, and it's much more convenient to put everything onto one SD card than have to swap carts in and out. There are legitimate reasons for using the MiG carts, and they're not even niche. And beyond that, there are several "fair use" reasons someone can legally copy someone's copyrighted works. On the other hand, what Nintendo is doing almost certainly violates consumer protection laws in most countries.

Even if they could prove that those people were pirating Nintendo games, Nintendo doesn't get to unilaterally decide what the punishment is. That's for the courts to do. No one is going to let them brick consoles to punish piracy. They must know it's complete nonsense. They'll probably only get a slap on the wrist for it though

@jsty3105 The difference is that it’s not the account being banned, it’s the console. As someone who very much will only have the option of a second hand Switch 2 given the price, it’s an unnecessary worry that I could end up with a console completely unplayable online through no fault of my own. The whole point of a Nintendo Account should be to avoid that scenario through the Terms of Service agreed and not the last resort option of nuking the console. I probably should have been clearer but there’s a big difference between a user being punished within the bounds of the abuse of their account, and the physical console itself being affected.

People don't understand this doesn't just ban it from online play, it totally makes the console unusable. No offline play. Nothing. In Europe they're only banning them online, because they know the EU will come down on them like a ton of bricks.

While I agree Nintendo should be allowed to protect their systems from piracy, this system is only going to harm legitimate consumers. And for those saying Nintendo doesn't get anything from 2nd hand sales, they get income from the games that buyer will purchase. That's how the console market has always operated. Consoles are sold at a marginal profit, or even a loss, which is recovered through software sales.

@NFrealinkling the problem is the ENTIRE system gets banned permanently.. so if u let a friend or a "smart" kid use it and they use a MIG cart or do whatever else Nintendo doesn't like.. now YOU have a useless device that can ONLY play physical games that are fully on the cart with absolutely no way to fix the issue... imagine taking a Switch to school to play bc they have a free day or whatever and some ahole kid bricks your sons or daughters system permanently.. now all accounts get the same ban and even if they go back to the switch 1 they are STILL affected.. think if all the games some ppl have bought (like me.. i got over 800 worth of games between both consoles) they no longer have access to.. if u buy a game key card ur REALLY screwed.. this is messed up.. imagine if apple banned everyone that jail broke their phones.. remember how bad that was til the federal government stepped in and made it legal to jailbreak devices?

@jsty3105 no true.. ive found videos proving fully bricked consoles outside of physical offline games only.. its fairly useless especially with game key cards

It wouldn't be so bad if most games were still physical, but we all know where that's going.

The console might not be technically 'bricked', but Nintendo, no doubt by no coincidence, has made nearly all functional aspects of the console online only. Once banned, it seems the sole online thing that still works is firmware updates. Probably likely just so you can continue updating the console and reduce the chances of it being hacked in future, just to rub salt in the wound and make it more likely to be e-waste.

@sethfranum you might be right about what is is "mostly" used for, but the should Nintendo ban those use it legitimately? Definitely not. I also get there are other ways to carry more games around, but with all of what I own on one cart and having piece of mind that my game collection is at home safe from loss or theft is the reason some purchase it.

@CommanderTaco The migswitch dumper copies the game from the game cart exactly as it is on the switch cart (including the unique identifier attached to the game). By that definition, then the game file contained on the switch cart is a rom and Nintendo is in violation of their own TOS. I get that people download roms with that unique identifier removed for switch game and copy them to the migflash, but the law is pretty clear that a copy you make of your own games are legal. I don't think Nintendo should be banning their customers that are actually paying for their games for using one.

@BlackStar9000 my goodness. Thanks for proving me correct.

I'm also not shocked that you managed to say 'fully bricked but still useable offline' without realising that it's impossible for something to be both fully bricked and Useable offline. I blame gaming media for this

@Uberfish that's totally false. Offline play isn't affected.

@nessisonett https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/xbox/forum/all/xbox-360-banned/99e9892a-caab-480f-beb6-57c319811658 console bans have been happening pretty much ever since we had fully internet capable consoles.

@BloodWolfe well Microsoft fully bricked the system, i could only play it offline with physical media, which wasn't a huge deal back then, because digital games were barely a thing at the time. You can still play physical games on the Switch 2 if it gets banned. I don't feel sorry for ppl who's systems get banned for pirating, and I think Nintendo has every right to do so

@AnVold than most likely you got this well after Microsoft cared about the 360. It's like using cheats in a 2 year old CoD game, Activision don't care anymore just like Xbox could care less if you have a modded 360 in 2025 lol

@NFrealinkling Lets not get carried away now. It's Nintendo's way of destroying the second hand market and driving sales. They aren't gonna sell to anyone but the desperate and obsessed hardcore legion of fans.

@Slideaway1983

Slideaway1983 2/7/25 3:18BST #67
@jco83 so its illegal to make a copy of something physical in a digital format that i both own and will proactively use privately?

Sorry, but in the UK, that doesnt stick. It's only deemed illegal when I share the file.

Try again.

can you actually share a link where UK law says it allows this ? else it is nothing more than heresay.

all i could find is the 2014 exceptions to copyright https://www.gov.uk/guidance/exceptions-to-copyright which allowed exceptions but only for very specific reasons.

and the 2015 quashing of those exceptions https://www.gov.uk/government/news/quashing-of-private-copying-exception

I mean it couldn’t be simpler could it , don’t want a bricked switch don’t do stupid stuff - no there is not reason that you wanna do any of that to use it as it was intended - don’t be a douche

@LuigiBlood
I think the biggest issue a lot of the media is overlooking is that unlike previous console these "console bans" can't be reversed, which is an issue for 2nd hand sales where they legally HAVE to reverse it, since the new owner has not yet connected to the online services and so hasn't agreed to the terms that make it legal for Nintendo to block their access. (And even if they had Nintendo can't simply arbitrarily block access unless they can prove the new owner has broken their rules)
This applies at the very least in the UK and I believe much of Europe too, where the second hand market has a lot of provisions that protect consumers from companies that try to prevent second hand sales. (Buyers at least have a lot of protection)

@DetJayT
Actually you can't.
Most physical games require a system update before they can be played. Said system update requires a connection to nintendo's servers...

Edit: this was initially response to the comment that you can still play physical media on a banned switch 2

@RPGpro which console bans for knowingly violating TOS weren't permanent?

Surely the bigger issue is those same users getting some or most of their money back by knowingly selling or returning a banned console?

Framing it as Nintendo preventing second hand sales is incorrect. They aren't doing so anymore than Sony and Microsoft are for their own console level bans.

Regarding the physical media comment, you can reportedly even still use the MIG to play Switch 1 games on your banned Switch 2.

Banning from online is very far from "bricking"

@RPGpro but if it doesn't require any updates, you can still play. And at least in Switch 1 you could boot up a game without applying the latest update, if I am not mistaken.

So again, banning from online is not bricking

@jsty3105 indeed the problem is gaming media misleading people on purpose, to get more clicks/comments/etc

@RPGpro I'm pretty sure you can still play the games without an update as long as the whole game is on the cartridge, at least they always ask if I want to start the software before it's even updated, could be wrong, since I've never actually started software before the update 🤷‍♂️
Bottom line i feel Nintendo has the right to ban your system if you're breaking the TOS, like every other console manufacturer. Now if they're really banning ppl for legit use of the mig cartridge then I believe Nintendo should come out and just flat out say don't use it regardless of legality or your banned 🤷‍♂️

The overlords at Nintendo will control what you do with their hardware.
even though you own it. basically by bricking the unit they have stolen your money.
ban the console , don't make it a redundant piece of plastic. Don't they care about the environment. it will end up in landfill.

So revoking access to games I understand. You're not purchasing the software, you're purchasing a license to run it, physical versions included. Does that extend to the hardware, too? Like you don't actually own the machine but instead have the license to use the OS? Is this something that exists for products in other industries? Regardless, I'm fairly certain this is not a new thing that is unique to Nintendo but the Switch 2 is the new hotness so of course it's making the rounds.

@RPGpro I've never heard of any console that reversed the ban before.

That said when a console is banned, it is rarely accidental, because it is assumed the console cannot be trusted (e.g. mods). The only way I can see to reverse the ban is to have it go to Nintendo to refurbish it (that includes opening it to see any potential mods) and only then they can unban it (and sell it).

@KITG_GROUP Don't worry it's the exact same with Sony and Microsoft.

@KITG_GROUP pretty much all false. They 100% didn't brick any console. The console still functions offline

@TheBigK it's existed pretty much ever since we had internet enabled consoles with online accounts

@jsty3105 so what do you say to all the ppl that brought or given a blocked second hand switch 2? Or if someone else gets ur switch 2 and blocks it on purpose ?

@DetJayT I get they have the right to ban and even brick, but to me the bricking part is too far by making it completely unusable. That hardware now belongs to the user and they should still have access to use it even if just offline with physical media, or if they choose homebrew it's their hardware. It's a slippery slope and both sides I understand, and I hate cheaters and dont condone piracy but the hardware shouldn't be completely bricked if they have that ability to render it inoperable. So banning sure no problem, truly bricking it is a slippery slope.

@jsty3105 remember what I said about whataboutisms lol...

@BlackStar9000 Personally I'd just say to watch out... like for literally everything second hand in general

And if someone else gets it and blocks it, well, get him out of your life and ask him for money. It's easy to find unfair situations, but which kind of situation happens more is more of my question.

@Yozora146_ sorry you gor lost in the shuffle yesterday.

No my switch is not modded; either internally (hardware) or OS (software - putting differentiation in there just so its acutely and easily visible).

The only "modification" is the MIG card itself, which is unlicensed, and im well aware of the potential repercussions (via Nintendo or MIG themselves) that could have occurred.

The dumps are my own carts that I have bought and backed up using the dumper as and when I want them on the SD itself.

As advised prior, I make sure the files are destroyed when I complete the games, or when I sell said original (official cart) copy.

To that end, and i know people won't believe me because of prior responses, and in some cases misinformation; i do not use it to activate cheats, manipulate systems or anything else, other than the reason it was officially sold under, I bought it for, and I still use it for: playing copies of my own games.

And to clarify, whether people think its illegal or not, its my hardware and games. I do with my items what I like. What I do doesnt really hurt anyone, as I dont sell the copies, I dont share them or anything else you can think of. Don't blame me for piracy, blame the 99.9% of the users that use it that way.

To that end, my purchase of 1 mig cartridge does nothing compared to the 999 others that cost nintendo say £50 a pop for a game, as nintendo, LRG, SRG, and any other publisher still get their money from me.

Again, thanks for being indifferent to the problem (for want of a better word). I just had to come off here yesterday as people blatantly dont want to hear that some people who buy "piracy" things dont pirate. And piracy to me is the same as it was with VHS back in the day - copy, sell on and cost the distributor / publisher money.

Sorry for long reply to your name specifically. Just wanted to answer and respond to some other stuff. And thats all im saying.

@BlackStar9000 which person in your life is capable of doing this to you on purpose (why are they still in your life?) and if they're not in your life then why would they nerf your console and give it back?

@Kenjur purchasing physical games is owning, it’s just owning of the cartridge, not the ability to play the game even if you lose it

No Piracy, No Problem.

Nintendo is not gonna let folks rob them and use their services as well. A bricked/banned system is exactly what a person paid for. The physical system, not the constantly updated OS or Online service. So for the “I paid for it so I can do what I want” folks, you can. You just only get what you paid for, the physical system. You have a TOS that you agree to from the start.

@BloodWolfe from what I understand they can still play physical games. I think they should still have access to any digital games they've bought in the past too, but I'm sure it's all in the TOS nobody reads and just signs lol

@joehendrey it’s true that Nintendo’s solution is not ideal, but given that people using MIG cartridges for reasons within the law are probably in the minority, and even less that are going to lose their original and have to use the backup, I think it’s a good way to get rid of pirates.
And about Nintendo not deciding the punishment…you think the courts are going to have time to prosecute every single person who pirates a switch game? If you’re using their products illegally, they have every right to not let you use their products. At least that’s my opinion

@BlackStar9000 I agree, the solution isn’t perfect, no solution probably will be, this is, in my opinion, the best way to do it

@liveswired the second hand market won’t be killed by this at all. All it requires is for buyers to be more vigilant. Scammers have always been rampant of second hand sites, and this is just a new wave of that

@Slideaway1983 - If they can detect that one of those devices are used, maybe just disable to console while it’s in the device, and as soon as it’s removed it goes back to normal. That seems like a valid compromise.

Hello Everyone as far as i can the the main issue is greed.

I am with everyone that is buying carts to be able to own things, i am one such type of consumer.

the issue Nintendo are fighting would easily for the own use of purchased games be remedied by allowing users to install their carts to internal storage / sd inserted into switch, however Nintendo and others know that some users with get both a Digital and Physical copy of some games to satisfy the convenience of digital but also have the backup of physical for when the eshop is retired/ internet store is offline.

The Mig switch does indeed offer a nice solution to carry the images of many legally purchased games in a convenient form factor that would negate risk of misplacing multiple carts when on the move.

While i understand that some are using this to sail the high seas, i think its harsh to invoke such a heavy price on the end user if they are using this thing for fair use.

@mattitudemf a sane voice in the sea of crazy, this was my thought exactly and i am sure they can do it, they are using this as a means to sell more hardware, a dead switch does not in my opinion server anyone and this may well have the opposite effect to what they are intending in my opinion.

Also the fact there seems to be no clear appeal process is crazy town also, if online was free maybe this would be different, but it would still not be the best approach for this in my opinion.

Also them saying they are loosing sales, maybe they need to look to the abandonment of Nintendo selects and the introduction of £80 games....

Greed is king this generation for sure...

@RPGpro Also a high portion of so called physical media are game key cards which are not really physical at all...

If you use the MiG to backup your games, then that means you have the original game cards. Why not just use them and nothing bad will happen.

Yea sorry, you can't literally brick/break people consoles. After a person buys it, it's his property to do ANYTHING he wants with it. Yea you can void the warranty, yea you could even ban the console from online services maybe. But straight up destroying $500 of private property is wrong/illegal/not okay.
Piracy is breakage, you're never gonna stop it. Just accept it and budget accordingly.

@ICISAZEL - My stance on all this is, if it’s a console that is still being supported and the game can’t be purchased directly from the publisher physically or digitally, than you’re stealing. But if it’s a dead platform (Wii U, Wii, etc), I think it’s fine to download the ROMs and emulate.

I think Nintendo/Sony/Sega etc, are missing out on a goldmine by having some sort of service like iTunes where you just buy a rom for 99 cents and play it on an emulator on your device of choice.

@NFrealinkling Do you have proof that 100% of MIG Switch users are using for piracy? Because the intended use is for users to back up their own carts and the manufacturer sells a device for doing just that. There's an above zero percentage of MIG Switch users using it as intended, so a blanket bricking policy is unjustified.

I can understand new games. I don't care if they're really old games.

@WiltonRoots 😅

@ICISAZEL corporate greed? Well that's one way to describe protecting revenue streams. One thing's for sure. Pirates will always have 'corporate greed' available as justification for piracy.

In their minds, all businesses must exist as social entities without profits and give back to them

@ouroborous good thing Nintendo have never literally bricked any Switch or Switch 2 console for any reason then

@jsty3105 so the internet is scare mongering about all these sw2 being bricked.

@KITG_GROUP yes. Also, gamers apparently now prefer to misuse the term bricked. There's even someone here sharing that a console can be fully bricked and still be usable offline

@SirPrimalform It doesn't matter what a third-party does, no console manufacturer ever has allowed the use of playing backups. Dump your own games, but you will need some other means to play them.

@SirPrimalform yeah, I know for a fact that some of the users are using it within legal bounds. However, just because something’s legal doesn’t mean Nintendo has to let you do it. You can get banned from their servers for cheating online, which isn’t illegal. If you don’t play fair online, you don’t play online at all. If you’re playing their games through means they don’t approve, then you can’t play those games at all

@jsty3105 So they're not bricked/dead/totally unusable? That's what I had read, which seems very extreme.
Well if only banning is the actual case then it sucks to get banned from online services but that was the risk they took knowing Nintendo have banned consoles before, or threatened to do so, I don't know anyone personally who's been banned.

@Metazoxan At least in America, the cops can't bust your door down for pirating games (I've heard that might be different in Japan), if that's what you're suggesting.
That's a civil matter, not a criminal matter. Meaning it's up to the copyright owner to initiate action, with a lawsuit.

"unless it's thousands of dollars..." Yes, because THEN it becomes a serious criminal matter when the estimate damage to the copyright owner exceeds a certain amount.

@SirPrimalform I am for using flashcarts to preserve the longevity of aging hardware.
But this console hasn't even been out for a month yet, it's far too early to have a legitimate need for backups. No way the original copies have already broken down.

@ouroborous correct. They're not totally unusable.

Maybe dont use a mig switch? Honestly they should have it trigger a full brick mode so it dont even power on. Or better yet make it explode

@jsty3105 my sons.. especially my oldest.. but the point is if i let Anyone use my system or i jus leave it sitting out and a family member or friend comes over with kids our teens they could potentially do this... and yes.. kids have stolen bank cards.. money and even got into my social media accounts and changed all my info b4... all kids i knew or were family... maybe u have limited access to others.. but many of us have a LOT of ppl who are around us

@jsty3105 my son was jus watching free movies on a bootleg website and it triggered my ISP to completely lock out the internet for my whole home until i called and sat on the phone for 2 hours.. they told me it wasba website he accessed on his PS5.....

@BlackStar9000 So, why would you ever keep a MIG or anything that could make Nintendo block your account indefinitely within their reach and/or not tell them never to use it on your Switch? Nintendo has set quite strict parental controls for the Switch too so their usage of the Switch 2 outside of additional hardware that you pass to them use is a non-issue.

From the sounds of it, your family members misusing your Switch 2 is the absolute least of your problems. So, I sympathise.

Perhaps temporary removal of the PS5 from your son may help. Hopefully your family situation improves regardless of what action you choose to take (or not take).

For anyone saying Nintendo shouldn't be banning systems because a small percentage of Mig cart users are not using it for piracy. Is there any evidence that Nintendo is banning those people?

@Linux7055 For clarification again. They are not allowing systems that used MigFlash to access online services. They aren't banning systems or account as people make it out to be. Their EULA gives them that right. And to the story one of the bans it was a "System Ban/Block" not a person doing it and they are working to fix it. Most general users only have a dozen or so games they play and don't require a MigFlash to do that. Those that "Pirate" aren't going to out themselves on NL for all to see.

@BlackStar9000 That is ISP DMCA violations they do this when Copyright Holders of the Movie tell them - repeat violations will get your internet blocked by your ISP. For your ISP to block your internet this isn't a one case it's been happening for some time for them to block your internet. I've seen those letters and email they send out by others and they do state you will loose your internet if the DMCA violations keeps happening. So you should tell your kid that the PS5 uses their ISP and their DMCA rules applies and if this keep happening your ISP will terminate your Internet.

@Linux7055 at least 1 example who shared his experience on Reddit. Personally, I'd never get a MIG because I know the temptation to fill it with downloaded ROMS would be tremendous and I'd rather not do that to myself

@LuigiBlood Because a lot of the websites reporting it are calling a "ban" a "brick", which is not at all what it is.

@DarkLink1996 Because a lot of the websites reporting it are calling a "ban" a "brick", which is not at all what it is.
Called "ClickBaiting or Grifting" for clicks. They block access to Nintendo Services as that how people can cheat or "Malware Payload" to their server. And if they do that guess what all Nintendo NSO are hacked so unless you want hacker to gain access to your NSO account.

I simply love that the article clearly states the suit is happening in Brasil, but people are quoting US laws in defence of Nintendo as if they meant anything.

@Serpenterror ... Thank you for this rate insight into a Nintendo Fanatic's mind.

@jsty3105 Not sure what your getting at. But Nintendo is knowingly breaking peoples property. Nintendo needs to be held to account.

@jsty3105 I don't plan on buying one either. I'm more confused of why anyone would waste their money on this device just to dump their games and risk getting banned? It's not cheap at all, the cart itself costs $65, but you need to buy the dumper as well if you plan to dump the games you bought. That will cost you a total of $135 + shipping. If you own a lot cartridges, you would be better off buying a sleeved case to carry them all.

@Elitepatriot there's no breakage happening. There's no bricking happening. The console still functions offline

@RPGpro evidently accidental console bans CAN be reversed by Nintendo if this particular case is any indication:

Twink Link is being freed: Nintendo apparently backtracks, says you are allowed to call yourself Twink Link as it works to unban a Switch 2 it "flagged by accident" | GamesRadar+ https://share.google/HemheoAekn1hx2oO3

@jsty3105 How does that work when all your games are digital and you don't have access to the eshop?

What people tend to forget is that nintendo is run by the goblins in harry potter, and when you pay for a game they lent it to you and you can use it as much as you want until you die but it will always remain the property of the goblin that made the game.

@Elitepatriot are you asking because you don't know whether they'd work or whether you 100% sure they don't work? You can reported still use the MIG card for switch 1 games on a banned /nerfed Switch 2. If this affected you, then you can reportedly get another Switch 2 and redownload your purchased games there.

Physical games still work anyway. Console ban =/= Bricked. For example, my Switch 1 was bricked when a power surge destroyed the motherboard.

@jsty3105 I am pointing out that its messed up Nintendo is bricking consoles period. Being locked out of your console is wrong. I would be boned because half my library is digital. If I lost eshop function, how would I download my games. Sure I don't own a mig switch, but the argument still stand Nintendo should not be banning for something that is not illegal. I would agree if someone is hacking games and cheating or trying to hack servers, but this is just ridiculous.

@Elitepatriot once again banning is not bricking. Your console still functions offline. You're not locked out of your console. Your account itself isn't banned - you can still get another Switch 2 and redownload everything there so you're definitely not boned.

@jsty3105 and your ok with this? Being locked out of your content and required to pay $500 to get access to it again? I don't agree. Its anti consumer and I hope Nintendo gets nuked from high orbit with law suits.

@Elitepatriot Why would you be locked out of your content if you didn't do anything wrong? It's also not anti-consumer when the overwhelming majority (like over 95% unless the MIG sold a crapton of units) will never face or even risk facing this scenario.

This scenario will never happen to me and to many many other people who won't or don't use the MIG on their Switch 2.

I hope other countries like the EU challenge this too, Nintendo will reverse course if 1/3rd of their market decided to ban them until this changes.

@jsty3105 A mig switch is an amazing option for those who want to have their games backed up. I have had my switch and my games stolen before. I know how important it is to back up games.

@Elitepatriot None of your bought eshop games are lost. All are downloadable. All are transferable to another Switch system.

If your PS5 or Xbox Series or Switch 2 gets stolen, you have bigger problems than then the loss of your physical games anyway. Since this is important to you, I recommend you start a class action lawsuit against Sony and Microsoft for not letting you play backed up games on their own consoles either.

@Reztobi Why? None of the consoles banned are unusable. Furthermore, why stop at just Nintendo? Take out Sony and Microsoft at a minimum too before taking on Steam for banning accounts that break their ToS.

So if I’m correct, the Mig switch is completely unlicensed and used predominantly by pirates? A case of the majority ruining it for the few? The console then has online functionality completely disabled if you attempt to use it?

Then some poor hapless soul (little Timmy or whoever) picks up a second hand dud that someone traded in…from a store that never tested an expensive electrical device at trade in to begin with, or some anonymous person online looking for a mug, and the person buying it never testing it either? Is this the scenario that’s playing out?

@NFrealinkling well what would I ever do without your sage advice.... man, I would've been completely lost with out you!!!!! 🫶
Seriously, are you freaking kidding me? That IS EXACTLY what Nintendo wants!!!! They want everyone to move completely digital.... along with Sony and Microsoft!! The physical market is drying up, and folks like you only help it go further!!!
Not gonna go in to the weeds here on this. But what happens when the Next generation of Nintendo consoles come out and the Switch servers get sunset?

Did you ever own a Wii or a DS/DSi ? Those games are GONE! The data limitations of the DS and the size of the cards then, didn't allow you to have that large of a file set on your console... and 128gb cards!?!?! Nearly $200 then! There wasn't enough space! So lots of folks missed out with cheap cards with huge spaces and lost all those games!!! The same thing happened with the WiiU & 3DS/2DS. I'll be surprised if Nintendo makes a 3rd generation Switch compatible console or keeps the Switch 1 servers alive for the next 10 years!!!

Fully physical games is the only way of OWNERSHIP and not "leased" as long as Nintendo keeps the servers running.

Why is everyone so nonchalant about wasteful disposable tech?

@Princess_Lilly I mean.... there is a lot of people upset by their moves. There are a lot of folks upset about a lot of things that Nintendo chose with this console. I'm sure it's only a matter of time before European Consumer Advocacy Groups start speaking up and making court dates!! Brazil is already on that path.

@RejectedAng3L Because saying that Wii games are gone is only half-true. Only the storefront is gone. Any games you've bought from the Wii eShop are STILL downloadable. Even today. You're spreading false information

Saying that Nintendo might only keep the Switch 1 server for only 10 years is also false based on the Wii servers still being open for downloading past purchases.

@jsty3105 yes a contradiction there in it self.

@ICISAZEL can you show me any £80 game from Nintendo? I'm curious as I've never seen but I've heard a lot of commentary about £80 games

@jsty3105 other manufacturers are not bricking your system if you homebrew their systems, that's the point of this, you can buy a PS4 or PS5 and hack the console to homebrew same with Xbox. They lock you out of their ecosystem and online services if you do that but they won't brick your system.

Nintendo are the only ones doing that and they need to be challenged for it, what I do with my system when I buy it is entirely up to me. It's MY product, I can do whatever I want with MY product because I PAID for it.

@Reztobi could you elaborate on how Nintendo bricks their system when they do the same thing as Sony and Microsoft? The Nintendo Switch 2 still functions offline.

It's 100% not bricked. The only thing that Nintendo did was ban online connectivity. Just like Sony and Microsoft.

I'm glad you said you can't expect to do the same action with no consequences on other consoles

@jsty3105 but it isn't false. You can't play any Wii games with online content, thus breaking games that are fully online. Also, you can't go and buy more WiiWare or DSiWare games.... the SHOP IS CLOSED!!

How is that a lie?

2ndly, you don't [nor do I] know exactly when the Switxh eShope is gonna close.... but considering Nintendo's past.... next console hits the market (Switch 3 or whatever its called), the eShop is assumably going to close! It's the pattern thus far!

@RejectedAng3L name me just 1 Wii game that was fully online only.

I did say your statement was only half true because you said the Wii/DS games were gone. Only the eshop was closed. Any previously purchased Eshop game is absolutely not gone and can still be downloaded again if it was needed.

I do understand the wish to have every Eshop from every console maker be open indefinitely. I think that's highly unrealistic considering the cost (maintenance costs, staff time opportunity cost from renewing/maintaining servers Vs doing things to grow Nintendo or their games, increased risk from old technology still being used in the backend) Vs benefit ratio makes it hard to justify to please a relatively small group of people.

And even when an Eshop closes, we can still redownload software we've bought before

@jsty3105 not saying EVERY eShop... but the fact and matter is that as long as the networking is compatible still & the hardware is still in the wild & people are still playing the systems....

Then yes, the eShop's should still remain open. I know it's difficult to keep online games going once player-base ceases to exist. But if someone wants to buy a 12 yr old game on their DSi or Wii, then so be it! Not like it isn't profitable, the games were already made, and most servers are "set & forget" once they are set up and maintenance routines are automated..... literally a hands off at that point, unless some hardware fails in the system.

It's basically pure profit after a certain point of selling the minimum to hit the "black" on a game.

Nintendo has a server farm, and it's maintained by folks that work in the data center.

Keep in mind, I'm not saying fully support the hardware still by making new games etc [ but imagine if they did? ], just simply allow folks to get games at will after support has ended [which usually means no more patches, timed contests], it wouldn't in the grand scheme of things cost that much to maintain. Especially considering the Wii, DSi amd 3DS were in the top 5 for "Most hardware sold" by Nintendo! There are obviously enough units in the wild to support such a thing.... thus you have homebrew community's that make regular patches & releases! There millions of people out there playing consoles that are OLDER THAN YOU, every day, playing something new on something old!

@RejectedAng3L so you are in fact saying every online shop including the now closed Xbox marketplace.

I do need to correct the point about servers being a set up and forget thing. They aren't. There's a cost to maintaining them that's higher than zero. I've had to coordinate a few server updates in previous roles and those take actual time to do. I notice you mention automation. I can imagine and probably map out the processes for automating server updates but there are still multiple points where human decisions are needed. So it's not reasonable or feasible or even efficient to have a fully automated server update process. It's only one part of the process but Budgets do need to be allocated and approved with manual checks and discussions.

Servers generally have a lifespan too that isn't measured in decades. Furthermore, the older they are when being kept open, the bigger the risk of a cyber attack from a variety of factors.

Edit: I should be clear that I support your wish to have online shops stay open indefinitely. I just don't see how that's feasible

@SirPrimalform

Every pirate device is advertised as a way to play your legit game backups. They can't go around and sell a device that says "this is for piracy". They get into hot water even selling it as a backup device

99% of the time they are used for piracy.

I just wonder, when someone hacks the system and disables all consoles at once.

Having such "switch" build in, even so it requires server side actions, makes the system vulnerable to attacks.

@Geit_de If this was a problem we'd have seen it happen on previous consoles many, many times. I expect a one-way trust (client trust server, server does not trust client) would be in place among a myriad of other significant security measure.

Also Nintendo are just banning machines from using their online servers and servicesm NOT bricking them.

But I suspect you're 'just asking questions'

@RejectedAng3L Keeping servers running costs money, plus as new security flaws and vulnerabilites are found you need to update and eventually upgrade all online systems else you're a sitting duck to be hacked.

As you say. It's in no way feasible and people need to accept and learn that nothing is forever - things grow, decline and die. That's life. Sometimes it's your favourite pub where you spend your youth, the fields and countryside you played in as a child or online games.

@Jacket_p server updates can be implemented from terminal.... usually the same security protocols and implementation across many servers at once from the "master host".

Sure folks are going to try to get in, just like any other electronic communications system.... the fact is, that just from Mario Kart 8 on the Switch Nintendo made Four Billion Dollars! That doesn't count the consoles themselves or any other games.... Zelda TotK and Zelda: BotW both sold millions of copies at $70 & $60 [respectively]... now they want even more on top of that for upgrades to Switch².

Nintendo has money! Mario Movie aside.... that's just the last generation and mentioning 3 titles and zero hardware sales [which constantly sells out (NSO SNES controllers, NSO Genesis controllers, NSO N64 Controllers, Pro Controllers, Switch Joycons etc....), hundreds of millions of console sales.....

You mean to tell me, keeping the lights on in a Wii/DS Ware server is too expensive? The Wii alone sold hundreds of MILLIONS of consoles @ $199 and hundreds of millions of games (Mario, Zelda, Smash Bros etc).... maybe if they didn't chase every YouTuber and digital artist and fan project down with their lawyers, they might be able to afford to support the hardware that's out in the wold and the ecosystems they developed.... maybe it's just me.... but being as there are hundreds of millions of folks that bought the consoles, maybe I'm just over thinking it!

@RejectedAng3L I work in hosting. Keeping Windows up to date is fun enough but Linux is a whole other ball game. It's time, effort, monitoring, compliance etc. It's NOT just a cost of a single server. It's also making sure the code is compatible with new versions of the software AND the server - the version of Linux plus the platform it runs on like Java, PHP, Ruby. Each release needs to be tested, major system upgrades needs to be managed and that's without going in the database layer and that's a whole new layer of costs and fun.

Hosting is not cheap, people's time more expensive and you get to a point where you maintaining a legacy system becomes more cost that it's actually worth. For compliance to some standards you need to ensure that you're updating a patching things within a timescale. As soon as it become a pure drain on resources and finances a company is going to drop them. Sometimes you end up with a system which no-one actually knows how to maintain anymore when people move on from their jobs.

You get to a point where you are literally just throwing money away. It doesn't matter how much you make - if you keep making decisions which are potentially big costs to a business with no return on investment then...well...you probably should go and work for the public sector to be perfectly honest

Edit - it seems after a quick check they moved to AWS a while back so it's not even a one-off CAPEX costs - this is continual OPEX costs which just means a death by a thousand cuts keeping legacy systems going. You also get changed for data egress, storage, compute etc etc. It's not going to be cheap.

I think it is going to come down to 2 main questions.

1. What will courts decide you are purchasing when you give Nintendo your money?
2. Can Nintendo demonstrate that the owner of the Switch they are bricking did anything wrong besides violate their TOS?

"We think you might've done something wrong" isn't going to normally cut it in a court of law when you took someone's 500 dollars in exchange for something.

What that something is that you purchased is certainly up for debate. Does the purchase price entitle you to be able to play games on it? What if that physical game is just a key that gives you access to an online version?

I think most agree that you aren't entitled to more proactive services like access to servers for online multiplayer, but what about online updates that are necessary for functionality? If I pay 60 dollars for a game as a separate purchase does that purchase promise me future updates for that specific game regardless of what switch I put it in?

This is why it is usually easier to just proactively prevent piracy than to punish consumers after you've taken their money already.

This online world is getting scarier though. How long before Tesla reserves the right to disable your car for violating some arbitrary TOS they decided you agreed to when you gave them a wheelbarrow full cash. Maybe they already have I don't know.

@Rockcabinet there's no bricking happening. Amusingly, much of what you've said has been said before (at least thematically), back in 2009 when Microsoft did a wave of console bans.

Back then, websites weren't falling over themselves to call it bricking

@RejectedAng3L they may have money, sure, but one of the quickest ways to end up with a lot less money is to waste it. These costs quickly run into the tens of thousands each year. There's also the employee time cost and opportunity cost since the employees could be working on creating new features instead of wasting time maintaining servers that maybe a handful of ppl use each year.

If you like the idea of spending that much time and money for no gain then I echo @jacket_p about the public sector 😏

@MagiKnight Key word "allowed". Who owns the hardware, is it Nintendo or is it the consumer?

@NFrealinkling And you don't see a difference between getting banned from playing online for your online conduct and bricking a console because of legitimate offline behaviour?

@KingMike This is a device for playing Switch 1 backups, that's an 8 year old console that has been superceded. Doesn't that more or less fall within the reasonable use case you outlined?

@jsty3105 looks like they have related and gave back £5
Looks like they fixed on £74.99 for now

@SirPrimalform no Nintendo console has ever been bricked by Nintendo. Bricked consoles have overwhelmingly been a user error when trying to hack the system (or hack through the MIG or something like it) or through faulty electronics. My switch 1 got bricked when I plugged into a faulty charging port.

In answer to who owns the hardware, you kinda do but Nintendo and every other console maker can stop you from installing chests and hacks to protect themselves and other gamers. So they can and should stop you from accessing their servers.

I didn't know the Switch 1 has been removed from sale and has stopped being supported. Can you share the news? I'd have thought it would've been major news but guess I missed it.

@ICISAZEL ah that's good. It's current averaging at £65 in terms of retail pricing. Some got the European version for the around £45 from Amazon France recently

@SirPrimalform I see a difference. I think that both are legitimate ways of punishing piracy, however

@NFrealinkling Sure, but what's the justification for punishing people who aren't pirating?

I hope Nintendo loses. No company should have that kind of power.

Are there people that use the MIG Cart for piracy. Sure. But there are also people who dumped games they themselves purchased. Not only that? When a console gets bricked? That system then ends up on the secondary market where unsuspecting customers buy a bricked system in store.

That's not right either.

And what happens if someone buys a SD card online but it's a "Fake" SD card? Amazon and online marketplaces like that are full of these. And if someone sticks one of them in their Switch 2? Is the system going to brick?

There are now reports that Nintendo are rendering third party docks inoperable as well. The end result is a lot of this could be viewed as a way of Nintendo trying to force people to buy their overpriced peripherals and accessories (which is also why they probably couldn't be bothered to actually do anything meaningful about the sticks.) So people buy new joycons or drop $90 for a controller that doesn't suck.

@LoneWolfSones Ho hum - another one who doesn't put any responsibility on the people getting their consoles banned and knowingly reselling / getting refunds with no consequences.

The issue is also with the MIG card, not fake SD cards. Fake SD cards will just be much lower capacity than advertised or fail far more easily. There also aren't any pirated Switch 2 game cards at all so it's not even worth bringing it up.

As for the reports of 3rd party docks not working - you've very quickly forgotten that the Switch 1 had public cases where 3rd party docks were bricking other people's Switches.

Several of those reported Switch 2 docks are also working now after a firmware update so nothing to get angry about either or, as it's popular to, accuse Nintendo of being 'greedy'

@SirPrimalform then you should play your games the way you bought them

@NFrealinkling That doesn't answer my question.

@jsty3105 "In answer to who owns the hardware, you kinda do but Nintendo and every other console maker can stop you from installing chests and hacks to protect themselves and other gamers. So they can and should stop you from accessing their servers."

We're not talking about cheats and hacks here, we're talking about people playing their backups offline.

"I didn't know the Switch 1 has been removed from sale and has stopped being supported. Can you share the news? I'd have thought it would've been major news but guess I missed it."

Nice strawman. I didn't say anything of the sort.

@SirPrimalform the justification is, if you bought a physical game, you bought the cartridge, full stop. You didn’t buy unlimited access to the game and if you try to take what’s not yours, then Nintendo can prohibit you from using their system

@NFrealinkling That's not how it works, legally speaking. What you bought was a) an intangible licence to play the game and b) a medium that the game is stored on.

Someone playing their legal backup and exercising their right to use the software (the right they possess due to the licence) is doing nothing wrong.

Someone playing a backup of a game they own is not taking "what's not yours".

@SirPrimalform Nintendo is allowed to punish people who hack online, right? That’s not illegal, but they can still punish people for it. Just because something is legal doesn’t mean Nintendo has to let it happen on their systems

Subscription for all S1 and S2 games running on S2 for one year and one year only.
Charge 1000$

Happy gaming!

@jsty3105

In the digital only world they are dreaming of, all would be £70 with no hope of discounts greater than 15 %... Physical is keeping them honest to some degree in my opinion.