Random: Guillermo del Toro Praises Mario Movie For Moving Animation In Right Direction

@Munchlax 35 years of gaming history ties it together though

Honestly I feel like it isn’t just the Mario movie, but illuminations movies as a whole animates vary well animated films, sure the writing or story is a topic for discussion, but the animation for there movies are indeed great, Grinch, and sing two, Lorax’s, horten hears a who, despicable me 2, those are some of there best movies in my opinion, I however I feel like they are better of making animated movies for pre existing I.P’s then original movies, as I think those are some of there best. Like Mario and the Dr. susses movies for example.

Guillermo del Toro is breaking all the taboos of the world. Before talking about how movies like Mario are for adults he was talking about how it’s okay to make love to fish like in The Shape Of Water!

So-called "cinema enthusiasts" in shambles.

He's just hoping to get into Nintendo's good graces so he can make a body horror Kirby movie.
You think he isn't sitting there right now building a life sized Marx prop!?

Well if this is moving in the right direction and is gonna be the standard for Western animation now we're f***ked 😅

@Munchlax I reckon Spider-Verse kinda encapsulates how I perceive Sony content in general - stylish but boring.

I've tried to watch the first Spider-Verse film. It's clearly got some creative visual flair, but for some reason it doesn't engage me and I haven't yet managed to watch it properly. It might be great, it might have a great story in there, but I've not been able to pick out it's greatness yet. Same tends to happen when I try the big PlayStation games. They lose me too early on.

The Mario movie might lack substance, but it's still a delight for me to watch.

He's not wrong at all in his statements.

My father refused to see the movie he saw it just to watch movie with me. He was very impressed with it.

@Snatcher I disagree with your statement. Saying that it's only recently that Illumination has become good at animation. Despicable Me is a fantastic movie with great animation and original story. The movie did very well for good reason. The problem I think were the minions as they became so popular they were everywhere. Then people got tired of the minions and that's when the Minion movie came out. Big mistake. It doesn't say anything about their animation skills though. There is a good reason Nintendo chose Illumination to make the Mario movie.

"Del Toro was speaking at the Annecy animation festival"

Did you expect him to say the opposite! But I agree in some regard.

To me the best animation currently comes from Studio Chizu and even though their work gets high critical praise and awards, they don't have enough mainstream impact compared to the animation American studios put out

I enjoyed the Mario Movie, but if we’re talking about issues with how animation is perceived, it feels like part of the problem.

You look at a lot of Pixar & Ghibli films, or Del Toro’s Pinocchio, it feels like it was made to emit profound emotion to the story, characters, themes and animation. Conversely, adapting Super Mario Bros into a movie, when the game was never about storytelling, feels like this movie’s primary purpose was to make money on an existing fanbase. It was a great attempt at it, undoubtedly. But there’s certainly nothing that that screams “This advances the animation industry.”

Del Toro's animated Pinocchio is an incredible piece of art.

As a film producer myself, who's only managed to get financing for live action movies over the years despite extensive traditional animation training with Disney, Don Bluth etc, I feel his pain, but share the sentiment that recent major finincial successes, and the growing experimentaion with styles and techniques, gives me hope that there is more of a market nowadays and its not just seen as cheap lazy children's entertainment to shovel out.

While the Mario movie (which I loved btw) is about as commercial a kids movie as you can imagine, films like "Marcel the Shell with Shoes on" show that its possible to make a quirky, indie, low budget animated feature and make a good financial return and get major award nominations, even break into the theatrical market despite current market conditions.

I love directing live action, but as someone who really cares to an obsessive amount about lighting, framing, use of colour, blocking, acting performance, editing down to the exact frame etc, there is something hugely appealing about animation, as you can truly control everything, including the acting performances, to a micro level thats impossible with live action. I've directed animated shorts but its my hope that as I get older, part of my move towards a soft retirement will be able to direct independent animated features, specifically for these reasons - it might be self indulgeant, but its the only way to have the final result be 100% your own exact artistic vision and creation. I can imagine me "retiring" and spending a decade or more tinkering away at my own animated feature.

I get what he's saying, and as successful as it is... lumping the Mario Movie into the same creative branches as the new TMNT and Spider-verse movies is an incredible insult to those films.

The SMBM is as generic a cgi looking film as it comes (with perhaps the only bonus points being that illumination do have some visual fluency and because they have Nintendo's original concepts to draw (ha) from).

Dreamworks Animation recent Puss in Boots would have been a better fit for his compare - that's probably the best example of a studio trying to evolve their prior stagnant style.

The only way Mario advances the animation industry is that there will now be more animated movies being made again for cinema due to its success.

But again, the quality vs quantity issue will crop up.

I’m just happy that there seems to be some movement that isn’t just Pixar/Disney getting recognition.

I'm sorry, but no matter how cute/wholesome/full of references Mario movie was, Illumination is objectively a force working AGAINST recognizing animation as "the purest form of art".

@Keyblade-Dan US animation has been screwed for years. :/

Erm...no I don't agree with him. I would if he was praising a company that actually does good work on a consistent basis, and it wasn't cheap paw patrol garbage.

@Henchdog lol

I agree that animation is the highest form of art - I am a huge fan. That said, I don't thing Super Mario Bros. pushed any boundaries - it's a very safe movie, not that that's a bad thing. I also disagree that animation is being held hostage by anyone - there is a lot of good and creative work going on out there, and it's coming from all corners. Some of it isn't even my cup of tea (like I personally can't stand the purposefully choppy frame rate stuff), but it's getting made, and by the big companies too. I saw Pixar's Elemental last night - it wa great! It kinda is a "teenage rom-com" too, but it has that Pixar heart.

@Tempestryke True but what I meant was if this is what getting better and back on track looks like then we're even more screwed 😅

I don’t understand the comments, honestly. What rules did the Mario movie break? Maybe he means that there’s very little romance plot? (Because he criticizes the “teenage rom-com” quality of other animated films). Mario movie is pretty good… for a video game movie. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoyed it a lot, but without that modifier I wouldn’t say it’s even in the top fifty animated films I’ve seen. Since we’re on the topic, if anyone here is interested in seeing great animated films I will of course mention Hayao Miyazaki. Now if you’re looking for something much more mature then a strong recommendation goes to the films of Satoshi Kon.

Mario's animation is nice but Spider-Verse is next level and has way more depth with its animation then Mario does.

"It's a pretty expressive, profanity-strewn speech full of passion for the medium, and well worth reading."

(suggestion: no recommending any "profanity-strewn" or "pretty expressive, profanity-strewn" speech)

@Keyblade-Dan Agreed

I think that his wish may be granted with bigger and better animation techniques that I'm seeing these days that can capture broader audiences than ever before, at least in the west. Time will tell how the reception will be going forward.

Idk if I'd go that far. There was clearly lingering demand for a proper Mario movie. Not to discredit Illumination - I genuinely think they did an amazing job. I'm just saying, the Mario pot has been boiling for multiple decades - which led to the global success. And stepping outside of my Mario fan shoes, I can say it was a pretty run-of-the-mill (and heavily pandering) film. and certainly not something that's going to light the flame of a golden age of animation.

High Praise - I thought his Pinocchio was the best animated film of the ...many years. The 'making of' mini movie of how he made all of the figures was almost as entertaining as the movie itself.

super talented dude.

One of those things is not like the other.
Strange he would mention Mario and a movie that hasn’t come out yet and not Spiderverse 2, Mitchell’s vs the machines, puss in boots 2, really anything except Mario. The hate can be overblown at times but yea Mario is not anywhere close to Spiderverse

I enjoyed the Super Mario Brothers Film, but that film did nothing to really push animation further, neither in storytelling nor animation. It is pretty much one of the most standard films you would get from a studio like Illumination. Influential animated films are ones like Disney's Snow White, Akria, Sprited Away, Fritz the Cat, Toy Story, Who Framed Roger Rabbit, Spider-Verse, or Shrek, The Nightmare before Christmas.

Maybe the Mario film is art as people are talking about it? Of course my other signal of is this cartoon art are films like Flee, Mad God, Persepolis, Anomalisa or The Congress which must be art because no one talks about them as they sound too arty farty for people to see.

I don’t really understand what he’s saying. The Mario film was a jumped up firework display of a toy advert…I don’t really know how it “moved the needle”? In what way?

@larryisaman it moved the needle by soundly defeating Disney. His is an obvious shot at Disney and Disney alone. Along with Spiderman It buried Guardians and Little Mermaid.

Film makers are sick and tired of the comic/cartoon machine of Disney and are happy when something outside of that decade-long norm breaks loose. I think people are simply happy when Disney fails. I am I know. I want them to lose in order for better art to be produced again. The landscape is dismal.

Let's see how the latest Pixar "What if Elements had...feelings?!?" formula does.

If you said to me "[Animation] has been kidnapped by a bunch of hoodlums", the first people to come to mind would be Illumination.

@Munchlax,

Totally subjective, the movie was fine and had a lot going for it, the audiences seem to be loving it too. The movie is simply fun to watch, and this does not diminish over repeat viewings. Sometimes with these things less is more.

@swoose,

That would be Disney surely, they do not have our best interests at heart, they simply want to lecture us on what they personally feel is right or wrong, and are most certainly pushing an agenda, which I am pretty sure what Del Toro meant by his critique.

Their best box office success stories seem to come when they keep it mire simple, like with Frozen, the Mario movie follows suit, a simple story of good vs evil that's a rush to watch.

Say what you want about Illumination's writing, they are very good at expressive animation, character design, set design and lighting.
Exhibit A: The El Macho flashback: https://youtu.be/PDvCrL_HQpk?t=81

I'll never understand the hate Illumination gets. I have them in a very high place, their character design, visual development, and lightning are very good. It takes A LOT of work to have a movie of the quality they deliver, and yeah, they have popular songs in their movies, that's their thing, and I'm fine with that.

@Munchlax Agreed. I thought first one was really nice looking but somehow Across manages to look ever nicer. Looked so crisp when I saw it at the cinema!

@Munchlax nah, they made a movie in Mario-style. A very bareboned story but with ton of action, secrets and fan-service for the true fans. Honestly, the amount of discoveries you can make in a single shot encompasses the amount of coins you could get in a single shot by breaking blocks in mario level 1-2.

You see the hand of Miyamoto in this movie everywhere. For the young-uns and the fans. I loved it and went to see it twice.

I'm a massive animation enthusaist, though I was unfamiliar with Del Toro until I heard about the Pinnochio movie. I honestly thought that film was a little overrated, although I am admittedly not the biggest fan of the stop motion medium. I just find it unsettling and aesthetically unappealing. The Coraline studio Lakia are pretty much the only ones who pull it off for me.

@kerplunk,

Which movies are they.

Guillermo, your Pinnochio was 50x the film Mario was though..

@SoapMonki Did it come off as me saying their animation sucked at a point? I’m really sorry it did, I just said recently because they have really gotten better recently, they upgraded their lighting and all, and reading back on it I can see how it sounds like that’ll because it wasn’t my intention. I agree they have always been good at animation, its just debatable wether the writing for said movie is good or not, and tbh I never was really annoyed about he minions lol.

but reading because I said recently it does insinuate that there animation sucked at a point, or wasn’t good before, so I apologize.

Oh I know it didn’t mention their animation skills, I just wanted to mention it, as it was a topic that came into my head when I saw the article title.

But I shall rephrase my comment, and surly it will sound better.

@Munchlax
Maybe.

But a good animation movie, as well a good videogame, does not necessarily need a "substance", which is a very subjective matter, depending of what the target audience would consider "substantial" in any given genre or style of the product they are paying for.

The Super Mario Bros Movie does not have the pourpose of bringing a deep, meaningful story. Since its early conception, it is meant to be fun and entertaining, aimed on families with young children and Mario fans , and it fits that pourpose , as well as the expectations of its target audiences, very, very well

@swoose Tbh Disney came to mind lol.

Good for Del Toro for believing that I guess. I loved the Mario movie, one of the few works from Illumination I really enjoyed, but can't see how it broke any boundaries far as animation goes. And with that in mind I don't think its fair comparing it to the Spider-verse film series and the several other projects (including Rogan's TMNT movie) that have or are trying to emulate its success.

Just watched this movie for the 1st time on "4K Ultra HD" and it was AMAZING!! I wish I had seen this in the theaters 😕😅

@Bizzyb,

I bet it looked awesome, the animation is very good in this movie.

@Henchdog Guilherme del Toro for Metroid movie?i higly aprove this

Mario was fun with great animation but Slam Dunk The First and Blue Giant were both superb films that do more for animation I think.

The Mario movie to me was purely about movement. There was a tiny bit of plot to drag things forward but the focus was primarily on movement. I think you can have different types of films. If you go to short film festivals you'll often see experimental films entirely absent of plot but i get that in a feature length film most people will get bored without a story telling hook to keep them engaged. Film can also about experimenting with the moving imagine rather than telling a story. Just think of one of the earliest motion pictures showing the movement of a horse. I'm not saying the mario movie was a masterpiece, but from the art style, use of movement and sound design it was great and probably why people like Guillermo appreciated aspects of the film.

I can't believe Guillermo del Toro is actually wrong. Now people will actually think animation movies are only for children.

@TioRogerio The Mario movie actually "had " plot and character development, but the story was so rushed and butchered down for the sake of having references that movie failed to deliver them. People is just coping by saying the movie never intended to have this things.

His words remind me of Harry Partridge (that animator who, about ten or so years ago, was famous for some videos he made about Skyrim; he also made the art and animation the BearShark videos for the 3DS).

He once made a video (complete with a song) called, "With Animation You Can." He basically explained that with animation, it was possible to create anything you wanted, with your only limitation being your imagination.

In many ways, he's right. Animation is frankly one of the best forms of media out there, as the possibilities for creating strange new worlds (hope people get that reference) are endless.

@Snatcher No harm done of course! Thanks for clarifying yourself tho. I'm an amature animator myself en therefore I've been a fan of Illumination's work, mainly because of the animation level. So I can get a bit protective when people claim otherwise Illumination did get a lot of backlash for being the chosen studio to make the Mario Movie. No worries tho, I see it was just a misunderstanding Cheers!

I recommend everyone read the actual source, this article doesn't really do his words justice.

i.e. He's not saying the Mario Movie is an adult movie, or even a risk-taking movie, just that its a very successful animated movie and is raising the industry as a whole with its box office numbers alone. He's not saying your average animation is like a teenage rom-com overall, just the superficial way they use facial expressions. He wants to see animation portraying more realistic and emotionally raw stories, kind of like his take on Pinocchio. I don't agree with everything he says, but its a very different picture than what I thought he was saying based on this article.

@SoapMonki Thank you for understanding. They definitely had a lot of backlash that I don’t think they deserved, because animation was never, ever their problem, I mean look at minions two, that animation is amazing!

Have a great rest of your day or night!

Mario movie was a VERY successful dip back in the water for Nintendo. Perhaps in the future we’ll get more variety and deeper story. Then again we ARE talking about the Mario games here….gripping narrative and deep story isn’t really his thing 😊

@gcunit did you read the comics before watching the first one? It helped me enjoy it more.

@Calbant No, never really been a comic book reader. The writing style doesn't tend to click with me. E.g. I've seen the odd excerpt of what happens to Star Wars when they put it in a comic - doesn't work for me.

@jump Try asking Lovecraft first. I'm pretty sure he's the one that inspired Del Toro to make the film.

@fenlix
It really doesn't seem like it. This movie has been in development for quite some time. Anyway, it meets very well its target audiences' expectations. In the end, that's what makes this film a good and successfull production.

There should be two directors for The Legend of Zelda movie, if it has an A Link To The Past or Ocarina of Time spin to it, one person does the first bit, then Guillermo Del Toro does the second part so its dark and creepy.

Those are true words, in fact, what would be the perfect animated The Legend of Zelda flick would be a close match to his statement. I also want to see more ambitious projects like those and maybe, even, from the succesful but secured Illumination.
By the way, I wonder if that comment at the end was a jab to a certain recent Pixar film that actually seems pretty good. I haven't seen it yet but I hope it's more than just a rom-com. It's a new franchise after all, just like I like to support Nintendo when they're making new ideas.

This film has so much glaze.

@Snatcher I disagree.

I thought the Lorax and Grinch sucked and Mario didn't change my mind. Despicable Me 1 is clearly their best film to date.

@Workcomesfirst You think DM one is there best animated film? Really? Like I said animation wise, story and writing can suck sure but animation? There is no way, Mario looks leagues better then despicable me one, they got better at it.

In terms of story and characters developing yeah. (It's still mid)

Despicable Me 1 had more of a visual personality.