Persona 4 Arena Ultimax Won't Be Getting An Important Online Upgrade On Switch

Was quite interested in picking this up, not anymore

Meh I already had the perfect rollback for the game anyways, it's called inviting my friends over.

Well that sucks but just means i will get it on switch and ps4.

Ahh good ol Nintendo online, never ceases to be light-years behind.

Well that automatically makes the Switch version of this game the worst version, even moreso than it already is.
Honestly it's the worst platform in general for fighting games.

Might be the minority, but I don’t really care to play fighting games online much…single player or couch play for me.

I was getting this on the PS4 from the start, but that’s too bad for the Switch version.

@UglyCasanova It's not the fault of Switch Online. Several games on Switch, including Skullgirls, Nickelodeon All Star Brawl, and SNES/Genesis NSO use rollback netcode. I'm not really sure what their excuse is

Wow, Atlus screwing over Nintendo Switch owners again? Color me shocked

@UglyCasanova this isn’t because of Nintendo. Other games use rollback.

@Itachi2099 Sega still butt hurt that Nintendo is better than them which is why they purposely made things worst on Nintendo system. If Capcom could include rollback on titles like the Capcom Fighting Collection and Street Fighter 30th Anniversary Collection, Sega and Atlus had no excuse.

@tee-cup laziness

@tee-cup Roll back is only as good as you implement it.
it's not a magic switch you turn on that automatically makes the online servers better, it takes time to competently put in.
And with that reasoning it would be safe to assume that it is indeeds Nintendos fault for not implementing it properly considering the plethora of games with garbage online, including the NES and SNES games.

I think out of all the nintendo games, the only one that had truly good online was ARMS.

@tee-cup SNES/Genesis use rollback? This is news to me. What about N64 and Nes?

Sounds like They thought the switch playerbase wasn’t going to be enough, so they just cut rollback, still odd because that’s just less sales from the switch port.

Well I know which version I’m not getting.

@Captain_Toad N64 and NES use delay based netcode sadly

@Ryu_Niiyama
Wouldn't be a proper comments section without tech-illiterate people who think they know everything.

@iLikeUrAttitude I think you're misunderstanding. Most of Nintendo's games use delay based netcode, which is generally considered to be worse- games like SNES NSO are the exception.

@iLikeUrAttitude You probably did not play much of them then, there are well over 20 games I own on Switch that had good online play. Sure most are lacking in features but I hardly had issue with any of them with my online experience and I had basic internet connection, not even the fastest like fiber or cable.

@tee-cup Yes but you were bringing up other games with rollback and I was making the point that it's only as good as you make it.

@iLikeUrAttitude I agree, rollback can absolutely be implemented just as poorly

Won’t really matter for me anyway. I prefer to do co-op over playing fighting games online anyway.

Will still get it on Switch but maybe I will also get it on PC

@Thoughts Not investing in the Switch makes them look weak. For a big company like Sega who couldn't even do what smaller companies like Capcom and Arc System Works could do on Switch is just lame. Either they lazy or they suck at doing it or both.

@Specter_of-the_OLED Funny, because ArcSys is actually co-developing Ultimax alongside Atlus

@Specter_of-the_OLED I feel like we have different ideas of "good" online.
But I'll list the 1st party games I played:
MK8dx
Smash
Splatoon
ARMS

Of these games mentioned I only found two which had decent online, ARMS and MK8dx. With MK8dx it seemed fine to me most of the time, probably due to the nature of the game where you don't notice the issues as easily as the others. ARMS' connection in 1v1s especially was crystal clear and that was surprisingly coming from new ip from Nintendo.
Splatoon online is ok but I remember in earlier playthroughs disconnects being all over the place.
Smash is easily the worst offender out of all the games mentioned, it's online is one of the worst out of Nintendo's 1st party games and its absolutely embarrasing.
You get noticeably more input delay compared to offline (which already has 6 frames of native delay). It feels like you're playing a different game. I guess nintendo isn't completely in the wrong here since apparently Bandai Namco is in charge of handling the online servers for smash and they're known for not really having good online, but jeez it doesn't it any less awful.

By the way I was purely discussing connection quality, if we were talking online features as well, this comment would be way longer cause they're also atrocious, well they lack of them are.
And finally I was just talking 1st party switch games, there are plenty of switch games with good online but they aren't made by nintendo and thus proves my point even more about how Nintendo is still a decade or even more behind with online features.

Not sure why a visual novel needs rollback netcode anyway. Wait, what? What do you mean there’s a fighting game in Persona 4 Arena?

Gonna pass on this. Like most people I’m waiting for a mainline Persona game. I thought there was supposed to be a February announcement for P25. If that’s it how pathetic

i know this is really important for people who love fighting randos/friends but as someone who plays fighting games single player primarily, theres still such a glut of content to sate me over

@mattesdude that’s me. I don’t play fighting games online. I prefer local co-op and single player for me tbh

Doesn't rollback netcode just mask lag? Instead of keeping people on even footing, it gives lower latency or the host a tangible advantage instead?

At any rate, competitive fighting games where each frame matters are best done in person.

While I understand it sucks (it really does no reason to skip the Switch)

This game makes more sense to get and play purely for the single player story... which makes it even more stupid we did not get the previous Arena game this one is a direct follow up of.

@westman98
There are posts which have elaborated more on the issues, would be better to address the points they made.

I'm thinking the reason why rollback might be skipping the switch may have more to do with the differences in platforms; PC and PS4 are both x86 based while the switch is ARM based. Its a long shot but maybe after they get rollback working on ps4 and PC they will add it to the switch version.

Although heavily tinfoil there is also the possibility that they plan on having PS4 and PC cross play but Sony doesn't want the switch to be part of that and Atlus just doesn't see a good return on the expense to give it to a seemingly smaller fighting game base on the switch.

I find it odd considering Capcom FIghting Collection is going to have roll back and this isnt

The original on PS3 had amazing online and it wasn't rollback.

Still getting this on Switch, a minor bummer but nowhere close to a deal breaker.

@Rayquaza2510 you don't really need OG P4A because Ultimax remaster will come with all of it's previously released DLC, one of which is the entire story mode from the original Persona 4 Arena.

@Neoicelord That's kind of what I was thinking. In all honestly, this isn't too much of a deal breaker for me. At least the ports still have online at all, let alone rollback for PS4/Steam, and $30 for a portable version of Ultimax with all the DLC bundled in is still a great deal. That said, I do hope Atlus eventually considers adding rollback for the Switch version, if possible.

I’m getting a copy for Switch, but I’m not gonna be playing it online anyway. Switch fighters that are not like Smash die quickly online if they don’t have crossplay.

Reason I’m getting it is P4AU2 is very single player friendly because they made the Persona Arena games in mind for attracting people that only played the rpg games which is why there is meaty story modes and other single player modes like Golden Arena that can give you a timesink that should give you $30 worth of entertainment easy without doing a single online match.

@Rayquaza2510 Zero reason to get first game. This game has all the dlc which includes the dlc of story for the first game.

Wasn't planning to play it online so that makes no difference.

Surely the competitive players will flock to the PC version anyway?

Not interested. Give us Persona 4 Golden please!

@Neoicelord Not sure about a triple pack, but I do see them coming to Switch at some point.

@Kimyonaakuma Yeah, also PS4/PS5, I believe.

@Arawn93 Yeah, there's still a lot to it even without online, and at least it does have it, unlike, say, Chaos Code on Switch. (Which is still a fun game, though)

@UglyCasanova Nintendo updated their network last year and it's pretty much on par with the others now, the blame is 200% on Atlus.

Not a dealbreaker for me. I don’t play fighters online anyway. Who knows, could come later anyway. Perfect roundabout… I’ll just have my friends come over. Still day one for me.

Need I remind you, Mortal Kombat 11, a game more hardware-intensive than P4 Arena, has Rollback Netcode.

@Royalblues not surprised @nintendolife isn’t reporting that the Switch already supports rollback Netcode. Thank you for mentioning that fact, almost forgot.

Think PushSquare should just have a Nintendo page.

@Ashunera84 it works by predicting what's going to happen between when transmitted data arrives. If for whatever reason the prediction is wrong, then the next bit of data is transmitted it corrects itself based on the buttons that were actually pressed.

Fighting games are really well suited to it. If it's implemented correctly, its like playing a game offline without any lag/pauses. It's a night and day difference, and not only makes for a smoother experience but also allows you to play people further away.

Guilty Gear Xrd uses traditional delay based netcode, I can't play my Brother who lives 100 miles away without the game occasionally pausing. Guilty Gear Strive uses rollback, and it's basically like playing offline.

@ModdedInkling another reminder that Nintendo's OWN ARMS game has rollback too

I don't play fighting games online anyway so nothing important to me. I will just have friends over

Will still get this on Switch

Worse netcode and (obviously) no crossplay...what's not to love? 🙄

Eventually, fighting game devs will realize how small their sustained player bases are (yes, even on PS and PC) and will make crossplay a thing across the board. It even helps older netcode by giving you closer matches. What a shame.

@Specter_of-the_OLED Regarding your initial comment, I have perfect rollback as well... minus the friends.

@ModdedInkling Doesn't that Switch port only work with an internet connection for most of it's features? And also runs poorly, as well?

@UglyCasanova
Said like someone who doesn’t understand what Rollback NetCode is, if only there was a video or something you could watch that could explain it to you…
Nah, let’s just blame Nintendo.

ok. Out from my switch wishlist. I´ll buy this game for Steam / Steam Deck (on the go).

@locky-mavo Rollback is the most important thing in Fighting Games online. Without Rollback....don´t buy the fighting game. Simple like that. I have 643 fighting games in 32 consoles and that´s my favorite kind of game. I was waiting this game for switch, but now...i´ll play on PC and Steam Deck.

@DM7Dust
The Switch version manages to somehow get 60fps, but is known to be super unstable and crashes quite a lot. The only requirement for an internet connection is to download the rest of the game; it doesn't operate like a cloud game. However, it and ARMS (someone else mentioned that to me) is able to utilize rollback netcode with no issues related to hardware...

@ModdedInkling Ahh, okay then. I could have sworn the internet was needed for something other than just downloading updates with MK11. Still, if it's unstable & crashes a lot, it kind of seems like it negates the benefit of having rollback netcode if it doesn't really run that well, otherwise.

I never play fighting games online anyway, but I know that's one thing fighting games live and die by these days. Thankfully, the Switch Pro Controller is just fine for fighting games, so I'll have plenty of couch co-op and on-the-go fun with it.

@Mgalens
Claiming that "Nintendo's online" prevents the implementation of rollback netcode in a 3rd party game is the definition of tech-illiteracy.

@nilcam No it didn’t lol. That game was famous for having awful netcode for the time, as with most Arc Sys games, like Blazblue and Guilty Gear. People played it because it was still online at the end of the day.

Ah great, now that means I'm not gonna be able to find anyone to play with

Don't care much about fighting games anymore. Not really my genre these days but its Persona and I'm here for the story and VN aspects of it. Gonna get it for my platform of choice which is the Switch.

Atlus is just downright odd. They make zero sense either common or business. I swear Sega needs to rein them in and collect that sweet sweet money Atlus just ignores.

@Rykdrew
Of course, that was the intent of my comment, the person I replied to, blamed SEGA/Atlus’ decision on Nintendo’s online, when it’s got nothing to do with rollback.

Between this and Soul Hackers 2, SEGA/Atlus, I’ve got no faith in them anymore, as they continue to make stupid decisions. Now I’m just waiting to see how they screw up Sonic Frontiers.

Rollback or not, I’ll still be playing this online with my fast wired connection. Profile picture is of my main guy after all.

@Sora181 Guilty Gear XX Accent Core and Guilty Gear Strive have Rollback and excelent netcode. I can play flawless against the other side of the world every time! (playing on Steam)

@Rykdrew That's very recent though. Guilty Gear during the PS3 era had awful netcode. It wasn't until the rollback patch for accent core that the online became good

Switch will get Persona 3 without colour
Persona 4 without a plot
And Persona 5 without music.

@Thoughts

Resurgence or no, fighting games are still pretty niche. Games like MK, Tekken, and DBZ may buck the trend, but dozens of other FGs (Persona included) have a fairly modest, albeit dedicated, playerbase.

While crossplay is certainly within the platform holder to approve or not, it isn't as though the software devs and publishers aren't part of those conversations. If the platform holders are reluctant, then it's up to the publishers to pressure them. It's essential to online player bases that only shrink over time.

Will still get it because can't see me playing it on my PS4 personally.

not interested at all in online so who cares🤣

@Rykdrew simply ... play offline ...

@anoyonmus me too

@westman98
it was more on the assumption that people were acting like they knew everything.

While there are often comments which heavily generalize the issue at hand there are also people giving their own opinions on the issue and explaining why they feel that way or speculating on the issue and usually a wide variety of takes, im not saying that they are right but rather that they explained why they thought that way. though this is also something that could be applied to most online discussion. Internet arguments are often very vague .

@Sora181 I played it constantly and rarely had any problems. The only game that had better online back in the day was SFII HD Remix. Arc Systems was the gold standard for online back then.

@Zanzox but..if i can buy the same game cheaper on Steam and play online (free) against players everywhere with excellent quality, why i´d pay more expensive on Switch to have a poor quality online gameplay? Fighting games are made to play online today!

First, this is clearly not ideal. The Switch port should get the same upgrades as the other versions. That said, it's about the implementation on the online play rather than the type of code used. Rollback is great when properly implemented. Delay-based code can also be good, if implemented properly. I play a lot of fighting games online on Switch and the best experiences I've had were on delay-based systems.

I am playing on a wired connection using the Hori adapter. My internet connection is fast (100mbits down/40 mbits up). Here are my results:

BlazBlue Cross Tag (delay-based by Arc System Works) - Hands down the best online on the system. I've played something like 2000 matches with maybe 10 bad connections.

Samurai Shodown (delay-based) - Second place. I've played hundreds of games and only had a few bad connections. When they're bad, they're terrible.

Dragon Ball Fighterz (delay-based code by Namco) - Pretty bad. Nearly half of my matches were terrible so I stopped playing the game.

Street Fighter 30th Anniversary (Rollback by Digital Eclipse) - Bad on all games. I rarely play this online because it's so annoying.

Ultra Street Fighter II (Delay-based by Capcom) - Terrible. I played it a lot online when it came out because there was no alternative on the system. They should have used GGPO like HD Remix did.

@Rykdrew online? not for me, I like to play with a real friend next to me

@nilcam Must’ve been one of the rare people who enjoyed that netcode or you’re misremembering. That game’s netcode was famously bad.

@Zanzox I like both, but it´s difficult to have friends here at home...so, i can play online with them ...but no roll back, no quality!

@Thoughts

I think the "worth" you're getting is limited by your contribution. That Strive sold better than previous GGs (on PC, at least) is largely irrelevant to how many people are actually playing it online TODAY (less than 1000 on Steam at this moment) and into the future.

Sure, games sell well at launch (what a surprise), but they shed players quickly and are rarely "resurgent" unto themselves. Crossplay mitigates these losses and can help sustain communities on smaller fighting platforms (like Switch). It should absolutely be a base development goal.

Probably because of the Switch hardware limitations

@Itachi2099 I didn't even knew such DLC existed, strange that nobody ever mentioned it.