A New Smash Bros. Would Need A Smaller Roster, Admits Sakurai

A new Smash would probably need a different gameplay engine. maybe change it from a 2d platform fighter to a 3d action fighter like Powerstone or the Shone Jump games. Theres a lot of inspiration out there.

A smaller roster is acceptable to me IF they aren't going to keep selling us the rest of the roster as piecemeal DLC so it becomes a 'full' roster again eventually.

Fair enough. This was the pinnacle of the series. I can't imagine anyone would want it to go higher and higher and lose quality. I think these duplicate platform fighters will fill the need of random character incluson going forward.

@GinMiguel That would be interesting — and different enough that a smaller roster would not been seen as a smaller game.

Unpopular opinion but I really wouldn't mind if they cut down the size of the roster. To me personally a big roster doesn't equal a good game.

They could remove Dr. Mario, Pichu, 2 links, all echo fighters (except for maybe ken) and 2 fire emblem characters that aren't echoes (maybe Ike and roy). The roster would shrink by 12 from doing this and if I'm being honest I wouldn't miss any of those characters

I agree. Smash Ultimate really did set itself out to be ultimate that exceptions for the next game will be even higher. I actually think there are too many characters who feel like fan service.

I would always go back to this smash if Sephi, Cloud, Hero, Sora and Joker arent in the new game. Would not buy a smaller game, definitely

Absolutely agree. I think the best approach is to ride on Ultimate for a while, even when the next system comes out. My prediction is the next system will be a Switch v2 of some sorts, using the same architecture. That way, they can just keep riding Ultimate with an increased resolution on that system. Maybe roll out more DLC stages and characters if they so chose and maybe even put all of the DLC into a Smash Bros. Ultimate DX addition. But keep riding Ultimate… just ideally make online play more reliable lol.

Whenever the day comes that another new, completely original Smash Bros. game releases, I agree it’s best to stick to a smaller roster. Retool and modernize the main characters’ move sets, alter the gameplay a bit (while keeping the core design intact, of course), and add some cool game modes and good online functionality.

Also, it would be cool to see another person in charge of directing the next Smash. Let Sakurai tackle his own new project at a more relaxing pace and maybe just “oversee” development of a new Smash. Just my two cents, though.

As for me, the amount of characters make me exhausted, they are truly wonderfully made and I like what Sakurai has done with each one of them, but when it comes down to it, I have too many options to pick from. Kill your darlings is a phrase in movie business, so for me, less is more. Anyone else have share that feeling?

I figured after Ultimate they'd soft reboot Smash with a smaller roster, probably a different kind of fighting game. Maybe not 3D fighting, but something.

Of course it would never work. Nobody wants to see their main fighter get a cut and that would hurt the sales of the game eventually and in the end, the IP.

We understand the effort of making the game. But I think gamers would be ok with just 10 additions every console generation (6-7 years) …. You can keep everything else the same if it’s too much work.

Maybe just focus on a great single player mode and that’s it.

I would love to see other games from Sakurai though.

But no… a smaller roster won’t work. Maybe an “optimized” roster in which all Alts become costumes.

I’d like to see it in the style of Street Fighter 4 with a bigger set of moves and huge character models. Smash Bros is great as a love letter to gaming with so many great characters and phenomenal music but as a single player game it gets boring pretty quickly once all the characters are unlocked.

I'd be ok with a smaller roster. My main concern would be reaching a decent balance of returning and new characters.

I smell trouble in paradise. Gamers may say they're OK with a smaller roster, but I'll bet my left arm that the same people will express outrage when their fourth-favorite character misses the cut. I can see it now: NO SEPHIROTH = FAIL.

I think the problem with cutting down the roster is that you risk upsetting somebody who enjoys playing as those fighters.

I have played Ike since Brawl. It would honestly suck to lose a character I have played across three Smash games.

I also think changing the gameplay from 2D to 3D would open a can of worms and risk upsetting fans who enjoy Smash for what it is.

We already have a group of fans who don't like Smash games beyond Melee because of changes to the gameplay and engines. Could you imagine the divide that would be created if they went from 2D gameplay to something like Power Stone?

Honestly, the best solution is to take the Mario Kart 8 route and release a Complete Edition of Ultimate on the next Nintendo console.

They could offer expanded online and single player modes, maybe even taking the time to flesh out the World of Light into a story mode on par with what we see in other modern fighting games.

Of course, they would have to sweeten the pot by adding new characters and stages to the base game. Maybe add fighters like Waluigi to the base roster of an Ultimate Complete Edition with the promise of more fighters coming as DLC.

It is the best solution in my opinion. The bulk of the game is already complete which means less pressure on Sakurai and his team, and there's no risk of upsetting players because their favorite character got cut from the roster.

Nintendo has also seen tons of success this generation porting Wii U games over to the Switch with added content and features.

I don't see why selling a new edition of Ultimate with all the existing DLC included with promises of new fighters would not be a massive hit for Nintendo and it would buy them time to figure out with direction to take the series beyond that....

@Isle_Delfino_Man Generally, I’m against DLC. But developing for fighting games, where each character has dozens (or hundreds) of animations is extremely exhaustive of resources. Not to mention that every new character that gets added requires hours of testing for game balance. In other games, piece-mealing the DLC doesn’t make sense, but in fighting games I think it’s justifiable.

As long as they keep Banjo and Kazooie, I'll be happy with thinning the herd. Especially if they reduce the Fire Emblem characters!

I felt like it was implied Ultimate's theme is "everyone is here," and that won't happen again. As in, the roster for future Smash Bros. games will be smaller than Ultimate. But that's just my opinion on the matter.

@Caryslan

I could see them doing a spin off similar to Power Stone.

There’s a series that needs a revival. That game engine was genius.

a reboot of the series I think is needed after Ultimate

On honestly unsure what the next Smash bros should character wise because i'm not sure what I want out of it anymore is what others do.

These last two games there's been something that has been missing for me and I've kept trying to figure what it is and honestly I feel the answer in a way is "Subspace Emissary"... and yet, not quite.

Because ultimately what i realized that I enjoyed of the franchise throughout the years has not been how the competitive side of it has grown through the years since the N64 but how in parallel, during the N64 to Wii era, the franchise's singleplayer mode kept being expanded and grew from the confines of being an arcade or events mode into something that began to mimic an adventure to another that felt like one(Subspace Emissary). But even replaying that couldn't quite catch the magic. Because it wasn't just that I already knew the beat but that knowing the beat also removed the illusion about an adventure that ultimately mostly just a linear action platformer.

So what i realized is that what I wanted isn't anymore really a Smash Bros as we've known them but instead something akin to a Smashbrosvania, an actual adventure not divided into level but instead played in a more cohesive or seamless interconnected world. One that perhaps could somehow draw better from its multitude of source materials.

Let's have a spin-off Arpg. Rather than working against each other, you all team up in a fun co-op adventure. Brawl proved it could make some sort of coherent plot with every character so I'm sure it could be done in such a game.

@TheRedComet I am not opposed to the idea of a 3D Nintendo arena fighter, but I think it needs to be separate. from the Smash Bros series and allowed to stand on its own merits.

This not only protects the Smash Bros series if the game either flops or fails to catch on, but it also allows a 3D Nintendo Arena fighter to be its own thing with no baggage from being attached to Smash Bros.

Also, if such an idea proves successful then it gives Nintendo another game franchise they can sell to consumers.

I honestly think Nintendo could do more with the idea of their characters teaming up in a game.

Maybe they could do an Avengers thing where Nintendo's characters unite to stop a major threat to all their worlds. Kinda like what Smash implies now, but make it an RPG with a storyline.1

@GinMiguel

"maybe change it from a 2d platform fighter to a 3d action fighter like Powerstone or the Shone Jump games."

Absolutely not, but as long as they keep the traditional Smash series and experiment with side games a la Legends of Arceus and Hyrule Warriors, then I'd love to see a Powerstone-style SSB. I've actually been wanting that since the GameCube days.

I just assumed this would be the case anyways. And not just a smaller roster. But a rebooted one as well You've already reached the pinnacle of this era of Smash. Why wouldn't you want to change it up?

I would love a smaller rostered Smash, Nick Brawl taught me the value of a good game engine, which SSBU doesn't really have compared to the competition. Cutting down the roster and overall content would allow more time to spent fine tuning the engine and balance.

I’d like something else eventually. Maybe instead of a large all star cast sakurai could make his own original cast of fighters. I think an all original roster would be something new and fresh and maybe just keep the same fun combat and go out there with more modes and party games to play. Break the targets, an adventure mode with large bosses, home run, and a wealth of other party games like monkey ball would do would be a hit.

Smaller roster with 3D fighting like Pokken Tournament….

@Caryslan honestly it's my feeling.

These past two gens I felt something was missing from Smash and ultimately it's brest summed up by the fact that since the Wii they never truly followed up on Subspace Emissary.

That was the highlights of the franchise for me because we were finally seeing these characters interact with each others target than being merely puppet through which players would fight each others without much context.

In a way it makes me wish for something like a Smash Bros that could stand alone from the rest of the franchise as some kind of crossover action RPG or metroidvania.

@BloodNinja oh I fully agree, sorry if my comment seemed like I was moaning about DLC - totally fine with DLC when done right, what I was getting at was I hope they don't release a roster 60% of the size of ultimates and then sell us the remaining 40% and have it "full" again for example. Personally I'd take a Smash with fewer characters if like Mortal Kombat 11 I could customise outfits, switch some moves round etc

Of course you can’t keep every fighter every time, for one that would make the game really stale.

So long as they keep Yoshi I'm good honestly. I think at the very least the Melee cast, Roy and Pichu aside, should stay. That's kind of the bread and butter roster with some fun extras.

I wouldn't mind a Smash 4 sized roster with more unique characters. Cut down the echoes and maybe some other characters and we're good.
It would be a refreshing restart that isn't too drastic and easier to balance and more room for creativity.

I can see this happening and honestly, I'm fine with them scaling the roster down, maybe just make a Smash game with 1st party characters and I'd still be fine with it. If people wanted the same large roster for any future Nintendo console, I can see SSBU being ported with some few tweaks and it will sell well like Mario Kart 8

I think maybe the team could implement a create a fighter so fan can make all their fav 3rd party characters for the next game…and a music editor. And for the adventure mode, maybe focus on a handful of staple characters and create a Nintendo mashup game. All wishful thinking but something different from the endless battles.

@GinMiguel

Then it wouldn't be smash.

@GinMiguel I would love if Smash Bros evolved into a Power Stone style game.

Some thoughts...
I'd be okay with a 3D fighting game or an action RPG or adventure platformer as spin offs, but I don't want any of those to replace the traditional Smash Bros. series.

It's inevitable that Smash Bros. would have to cut down its roster at some point. I'd hate to see any of my favorites get cut, but they could always return to the roster as DLC or in a sequel.
No one would have been as excited to see Pichu and Young Link in Ultimate if they hadn't missed a game or two.

I'm not opposed to them cutting down the roster to 30-50 fighters to start out with and increasing the size with regular DLC, adding new and returning fighters and stages.
I enjoy regular updates more than unlocking everything right away, anyways.
I'm okay with paying for veterans, especially if they come with stages or are cheaper than new content.
Veterans as free DLC would be super cool, but I understand that game devs need to make a living.

Overall I actually like the idea of retooling and rebalancing the older fighters, bringing them into the modern era (Samus and DK come to mind), rather than just adding 20 new characters to the existing roster and only giving the oldest characters minor updates.

"Everyone is Here" can't last forever, sadly.
But that doesn't mean they can't eventually revisit that concept in ten years or so, when it's novel and exciting again, rather than a given.

Cut characters? Hmm I'd be fine with Sora gone and some of the FE characters.

I think the most rational approach to downsizing the roster would be to cut out a lot of the excess - we don't need characters like the Ice Climbers (unlike every other retro rep, there's not really any reason for their inclusion nor do they really reference their series much in their moveset) and Corrin in the game, we don't need a lot of the clone characters (Dr. Mario? 2 other Links? 2 additional Fire Emblem Awakening reps?), and there are certain inclusions like Zero Suit Samus and Min Min that I personally just don't see the point in having. I'll be satisfied as long as the next Smash game doesn't drop the third-party representation significantly; it'd be a mistake to go back on the "celebration of gaming" angle the series now has, even though I understand that because of licensing some stuff in Ultimate would either be relegated to DLC or dropped entirely

I also think Smash should be developed into a more general crossover brand. Mario Kart 8's DLC executed crossover content very well; why not make a Smash Kart? Monolith Soft developed the Project X Zone games; why not have them (and perhaps Intelligent Systems) work on a similar Smash strategy game? What about a Smash Party with minigames based on and inspired by other games? A WarioWare where every microgame is based on a gaming property? There's all sorts of possibilities that could be awesome if done right

People would be upset at first. I'm sure that's true. But as long as they don't try to repeat the exact formula with a smaller cast, then I think the overall game could be a net positive for some. You'll likely split the fanbase a bit, but you'd also attract people who don't like smash the way it is.

One thing that shouldn't change is its ease of access. I think one of the reasons Smash is so popular is because anyone can play it. The controls are simple, but difficult to master and people who maybe don't play many video games can have fun with it alongside someone who is more skilled.

Maybe if they poured a bunch of effort into the main campaign, then the multiplayer component wouldn't have to be as grand as smash ultimate. Storywise, it would need to feel like a game you would buy even if the multiplayer element didn't exist. In the past, smash was always 80% (sometimes more) multiplayer component and 20% campaign. A new smash should work on getting that closer to a 50/50 split so that the multiplayer roster feels justifiable.

Ooo I need to get on Twitter to watch the meltdown!

A reboot with the original 12 characters but every character is built from scratch and have entirely new movesets. Not a good idea but it would be funny to see the reactions.

Can’t wait for another 25-to-30 years to pass before we get Super Smash Bros. Ultimate-er

That's the problem with Ultimate, anything after this is inevitably going to be worse, the game almost has too much content to be honest, no other smash can compare. This is a good problem though for fans of the game.

Next Super Smash Bros. should go back to just having only Nintendo characters. After Melee, I feel the series just lose that Nintendo charm, we need that back as a true sequel to Melee.

I don't know how they're going to get me excited for another Smash Bros. game. Ultimate is probably going to be for me what Melee is for a lot of other people; a classic that can't be topped, no matter how much Nintendo may try.

I'd like to see other companies do a smash style games with their franchises fighting each other. Imagine a capcom fighter like this. I fact capcom should do smash game in the vein of power stone.
SEGA had a ll star fighter in development but was canceled. It was being made by sumo digital. 🤯 And yes I'd like to see a KONAMI smash game. I know they had that konami ,takara game game in smash but something more solid and only konami characters.

For me the huge roster of SSBU is kind of a turn-off. I could do with a roster of maybe 30, even if they exclude my main fighters.

I hope the next Smash Bros will focus more on single player/co-op content. Sure World of Light was huge, but it just wasn't very fun.

A huge roster is fine and all but not really necessary in my opinion. It definitely worked out here for sure and I enjoyed most of this game. Cutting down the roster might be the best bet.

To me, it seemed like Smash moved away from it's original theme: cute, innocent characters beating each other senseless. I did think it was cool that they added Isabella, but Ultimate got A LOT of human soldiers and martial artists. I think adding people like Street Fighter and Fire Emblem characters kind of spoils the joke at the heart of Smash. I would have much rather had new characters like Rayman, Bubsy, Jack Frost (for an adorable Persona tie in), and Lappy from Astral Chain.

I'm very into the idea of cutting out a lot of the characters to be honest.
Take out like half of them for all I care. Long as main Smash 64 cast is there, I won't cry about it.

They should just...not make any more. Companies seem to forget that is also an option, and a very acceptable one. No way they can top Ultimate, so they really shouldn't try.

I would suggest have better single player mode since ultimate one is huge let down like adventure mode felt too repetitive and all stars felt so meh not worth playing revamp it like in pervious smash like brawl great story for subspace and all stars fun then it be good.

If there was ever a Nintendo game that deserved to be kept alive and updated in perpetuity, it's Smash Ultimate. Anything else they do will inevitably disappoint a lot of people. That being said, I doubt it would actually happen. More likely they just release Super Smash Bros. Ultimate: Ultimate Edition on their next console and let it sell for its entire lifespan without adding anything, just like they have with Mario Kart 8.

Nintendo probably will shrink it down to the original fighters and just make it 3d like pokken tournament

Im team “super smash bros ultimate +”
Just port the game again using what Sakurai established and add new characters. Modders for project m successfuly added in new characters in brawl while having them consistent with the rest of the fighters

They could have more than one person heading the game regardless of what he says period. Most games have that.
Also they could downsize the roster as well and just do a Pokémon type of game and have two people make two different but the same games. You could call them Smash Mario and Smash Luigi or peach and daisy, toad and toadette, Bowser and count Bleck or Bowser and Mario. Just use the names to separate the two like Pokémon does like Diamond and pearl etc.
It is very much doable and would work fine.

@Anachronism they are working on another Mario kart though.

Have to finish Smash Ultimate first. There are empty spaces on the level select screen.

SUPER SMASH BROS 100

Probably be 40-50 fighters to start off then end at 64 characters. As long as you don't drop Robin or Pac-Man or add me as a fighter, things'll be okay. I await the next Smash refresh, whenever you are able, Sakurai.

@TheFox Jack Frost was my pick, Hee ho!

As long as Sonic, Pac-Man and Megaman stay shrink it all u want I think the next smash should focus on newer characters and update the movesets of returning ones.

after Super Smash Bros Ultimate, if gonna be extremely hard to top it, Super Smash Bros Ultimate is the pinnacle of the franchise, i don't see where Masahiro Sakurai will lead the franchise next.

Sakurai sounds tired just thinking about it!

I'd rather them renew the licenses and just continue to port Smash Ultimate. There's no reason to innovate on the series formula as the replay-ability is endless. They quite literally perfected the formula with smash ultimate. Maybe add better netcode tho

IDEAS:

1. Smaller roster
2. Bring back single player mode from the n64 era (not that god awful thing on the wii).
3. make proper 3d gameplay (not 3d gfx on a 2d plane)

I have to stop and wonder what a new SSB would accomplish that hasn’t already been accomplished. Unless they all get a Mii Fighter-type mechanic with multiple selectable moves or something.
I honestly think they would make a killing with a SSB: Pokemon unless Pokken Tournament comes back around.

The next Smash Bros game won't release until close to the end of this decade (2028? 2029?) and it will have a almost certainly still have a big if not huge roster of fighters (even if it isn't quite as large as the Smash Ultimate roster).

Nintendo isn't going to change Super Smash Bros into a different type of game, nor are they going to pare down the roster so significantly that the franchise loses its mainstream commercial viability.

IMO, the biggest goal for the next Smash Bros, beyond the roster, should be enhanced online play via rollback netcode and a Subspace Emissary-like story mode.

Instead of a new game, just wait a couple years and update Ultimate with "break the targets" a 3rd fighters pass (third party fighters) a 4th fighters pass (Nintendo) and an update to World of Light adding areas with the every DLC fighter and spirit.

That way it builds upon the previous work, instead of throwing it away, and we also round off the game with 100 characters, and no one really left out. 3rd party: Prince of Persia, Ryu Hayabusa, Scorpion, Geno, Jonesy. Nintendo: Dixie Kong, Impa, Sylux, Krystal, Adeline, Porky Minch, Octolings... even Waluigi if people really want.

I don't want an inferior version with a "different approach", cut characters and modes just for the sake of having a new game, thats one of the reasons many of us rate Smash 4 as the worst in the series, it feels like the alpha version of Ultimate.

Id got the "all-new" route.
Shrink the roster by a lot but every single character would have a new move list (well as much as possible, there is only so much you can do with Mario.)

Then add the rest in season passes like all fighting games do

I don't see how Smash could work as a 3D fighter. Is there a good example of a 3D fighter where up to 4-8 players can play in the same arena? Or any 3D fighter with huge arenas with a lot of height variation like smash?

All 3D fighters I can think of have 2 players that are mostly locked looking at each other with the camera in the middle and most of their maps are small and circular.

Anyway, for me smash just needs a better single player experience. I think most of the 3rd party characters will be gone in the next entry and I don't mind the roster being smaller.

@Dirty0814 I mean probably, but they haven't announced anything. And with 8 still topping the charts, Tour still making money on mobile, and Home Circuit coming out just a year ago, I'd be surprised if we got a true sequel before their next console. And despite how great Mario Kart 8 is, it's still a lot easier to follow up on that than on Ultimate.

Pick a theme and go with it and it won't be obvious who is missing.
My dream would be a Marvel smash, but more realistic would be a Pokémon one. Same Pokémon game progression (catching, battles, gyms, team rocket clones) but the battles are smash style instead of turn based. Maybe a party of 4 instead of 6 and use the Dpad to switch?

@tripunktoj the next Super Smash Bros don't need to be 3D to suceed, the franchise trive on acessibily.

If the next Smash Bros. has all the fighters from Brawl, I wouldn't mind a roster reduction.

Less fighters can benefit the game by giving the developers more time to focus on other modes like Adventure or Online.

He is talking completely logically and I would be OK with this

I don't think this is a big deal as a whole, most other fighting games make big cuts between games, Smash has always been an exception, and if I'm honest, I don't want Ultimate ported and expanded forever. It would make it a bigger game, but I don't think it would make it a better one, not to mention the nightmare that would be renegotiations with all the companies and the balancing of every fighter.
I would love some big gameplay changes, mainly balanced fighting game style supers, every character having 1 or 2 special input moves like Kazuya and, probably most unrealistic, MvC style tag team. Ultimate feels like the culmination of Smash, it needs a pretty big direction pivot.

This was inevitable. Much like pokemon, they cant keep bringing everyone back and then adding more. Eventually it'd become a bad game with a lot of characters. I'm very curious as to what can be done to Smash to make it feel updated.

3D fighting is tough, as it basically disregards its legacy. Maybe have an option for 2D and 3D fighting.

Fair, We all saw it coming, But I at least would like a lot of DLC.

It be awesome if the next one had a comic book or cell shaded art style like some of the cutscenes for the fighter intros. I also think they should make a spin-off game with just Fire Emblem characters. Just a few ideas for the future of the series.

I gotta disagree with the idea that Ultimate can't be surpassed or that Nintendo needs to worry about anyone's feelings being hurt because their favorite character was cut. It's not like Nintendo hasn't found new ways to refresh its long-time franchises or cut characters and features before.

Why would we, in all hell, play a new Smash with a shrunk roster? I would rather then go back and play Ultimate. Then we would be having another Melee situation in which nobody was playing Brawl but instead Melee.

Then everybody says, OK, but then give it all back with DLC? That solves nothing. You only end up paying more for what you already had in Ultimate.

Grab Ultimate as a template and expand on it. Cut whatever doesn’t work and give us something else. The roster is Smash’s soul. Give us a single player or co-op story mode and 5-8 new characters and that’s it. You don’t need to add 20+ characters every 6-7 years.

A shrunken roster is not the way to go. That is exactly why Ultimate is the Ultimate experience … because everyone is here. You can’t go one step forward and two steps back.

It would be understandable if reducing the roster came with large scale gameplay shake ups, but otherwise I think porting Ultimate and adding more characters is the play.

Personally don’t mind the idea of starting fresh. To reflect on another person or team’s vision if there is another title in the series. I don’t know this feels like the Pokémon Sword and Shield issue of whether to keep and adding more Pokémon. The building on top with more layers mentality seems like an operating system update or software to treat each iteration like an upgrade, instead of something original to standout on its own. Not against bringing some familiar faces, but this could be opportunity to doing something unique for a true sequel. I like the idea of using a new visual art style, as they do with Zelda games.

@Gestahl I guess? I always end up using the same characters most of the time, but I'm happy that other characters are there. For example, I'm happy that Pyra/Mythra are there and Sephirot. Bu if we are cutting characters, you cannot cut the original roster, that means the N64 and/or some from Melee character roster. But I think we can do without Rosalina, Ice Climbers, Simon/ Richter Belmont. That's a problem with a big rooster, you cannot choose all of them in the next game to make everyone happy. Some have to be cut. but please don't cut Roy from Fire Emblem, Roy is my boy!

Well duh. Otherwise you couldn't call this one ultimate anymore. Just like ultimate mortal Kombat. It still has the biggest roster of all.

I wouldn't be satisfied with a smaller roster. All they need to do is port Ultimate to the next console, and then add more fighters. All I want is for more characters to have a chance. If, say, my top picks, Master Chief and Crash made it, but then they took out Sonic, Pacman, Mega Man and Cloud, then it would be almost pointless, as I couldn't have dream matches of key iconic figures in video game history.

Nah dawgg. You got all the assets left from Ultimate. You could absolutely make the next one bigger. Especially since it's literally one of the best selling series in the world and Nintendo actually has near unlimited resources to achieve it. If it has been done once. It can be done again.

I think Smash is in a great place to simply keep expanding it every generation. Keep everything pretty much as is, as it's already retro, and gradually introduce new stages and characters that reflect current hardware / games and keep making the game bigger. Sure, the man has done enough this generation. Hope he can find a team that can continue into next generation as it's something that should expand along with Nintendo.

*disclaimer - totally ignoring any licensing issues at a much later date...

1 big issue with porting Ultimate as some people suggest is the contracts for 3rd party characters.

The Wii version is still the best version for me. I don't play single player, and the only thing I like better on Ultimate is the level editor.

Most (if not all) 3rd-party characters will most likely get booted out for future Smash Bros. that is 100% unavailable. A lot of echo fighters may also get left out on future games in other to shrink the game. However, one thing is for sure and that is the fact that Super Smash Bros. will always and forever be a 2.5-D platforming fighting game, because is that specific genre that makes the very essence of Super Smash Bros. the game that we all know and love, it is its soul.

On the next console, they can release the same game, with DLC bundled in and call it 'deluxe'.

@snarls200 Then cut whatever 3rd party characters you can't bring across, and replace them.

Give us a real story mode, some new modes, add friend leaderboards to the score based games, make custom smash, smashdown and squadstrike online. Make World of Light Co-op.
Streamline the menu's with quality of life changes (why is custom balance restricted to 70-130% and why is it not in the rules menu?) .

On top of this rework all the echo fighters to still be clones but with unique aspects of their own. Give Daisy a move or 2 that references super mario land. Give Dark Samus some phazon energy stuff.

There is so much potential to take Ultimate, and build upon it, even if you can't bring all the third party characters. The majority of the roster after all is nintendo owned. 75/89 of the characters can return pretty much no legal questions asked.

Cut most of the Fire Emblem characters and the tenuous 3rd party additions.

Add a couple of Nintendo characters, there's so many they've yet to include.

Frankly, I don't care how small or large the character roster is for the next game, as long as Krystal from Star Fox is part of it. Given that she was an Assist Trophy in Ultimate (and has been a perennial favorite for a female fighter since Brawl), it is entirely possible that she (and Waluigi, for that matter), will finally be playable in the next one.

And I am honestly a little surprised that Nintendo has not taken greater steps to have their franchises be passed off to younger generations of developers. Yes, Shigeru Miyamoto, Eiji Aonuma, Masahiro Sakurai, and Yoshio Sakamoto are all famous in their own right for their respective franchises, but they are not getting any younger, and it's increasingly becoming time to pass off that torch to a team of younger developers with fresher and more revolutionary ideas to bring those franchises into the future.

I used to hate Wii U to Switch ports, but honestly, at this point I'd just be happy with Nintendo porting Smash Ultimate from the Switch to their next system with new features. Upgrade the resolution, add some new characters and stages, put in the stages that were missing from Ultimate (Rainbow Road, Pokéfloats, Orbital Gate Assault, Pac-Maze, etc.), Smash Run, and maybe cut World of Light and give us a brand-new story mode with levels and cutscenes closer to the Subspace Emissary. Maybe they could drop Spirits altogether and bring back Trophies.

Maybe this is unrealistic to expect or hope for, but I dunno. Negotiating the licensing and stuff would probably be the hardest part. But if they leave all character animations, models, move sets, items, music and stages the exact same, it would really just be focusing on the new stuff. They wouldn't have to remake everything in a new engine again, the game already looks great enough as-is. Maybe just tweak the lighting engine a little; I hate how Mario looks pink instead of red on most stages. Some other characters like Pac-Man are also a bit more washed-out compared to on Wii U.

Maybe I'm in the minority (haven't read the comments), but I just really don't want Smash to get rebooted in 3D with like 20 characters and all new movesets. That sounds terrible to me. If any of you have read the Iwata book that released in English earlier this year, there's a quote where Iwata says that with most games, bigger doesn't necessarily means bigger, but Smash Bros. is a franchise where he absolutely believes more content is what fans want.

I just really want to see a Smash game someday that has Crash, Spyro, and Rayman alongside all these other legacy characters. Maybe by then, Activision and I guess Ubisoft (don't know the full story on them) will have gotten their crap together.

Ah well, a man can dream.

I think the most likely character to be cut from the next Smash game is actually Terry, since the prince of India now has a controlling stake over SNK or something absolutely absurd like that. And I guess he's a very controversial figure who has done some really nasty things, from my understanding. There was also that ad where he slaps some female characters on the rump, which stirred up another controversy. The ladies obviously gave him what he deserved, so it's not like it was pure objectification, but it doesn't make for a very likeable protagonist. I would hate it for the Terry fans, but he and Kazuya were the only newcomers to make me say, "Wait, who is this?" so I can't say he would be missed on my part.

I need to just start my YouTube channel already. My posts are always ridiculously long because I have too much to say than what can be reasonably expected in a comments section.

Release the next Smash with a lot of characters missing, bring back the veterans as free updates or at least very cheap paid DLC.

People said that characters like Ridley, Simon, K. Rool, Hero, Banjo, Terry, Steve, Sephiroth, Sora, and many others, were never going to be in Smash as fighters, they were all considered impossible, and they came anyway.

People also said Snake was never coming back, and he did, can't wait for these people to fail yet again by claiming more characters will not come back.

for future systems just port Ultimate but include all dlc in it that's good enough

@Anachronism ohh yea definitely unless they put it out at the end of this gens life and on the new console. They started work on a new one after 8 came to switch so a new one is probably still a ways out which would leave it at the end of the cycle. It’s much easier to make a Cart game definitely than Smash but Nintendo always takes their time in their games and in the end it is worth it to me regardless. With Nintendo you never see the broken games you find everywhere else or many of any issues with them at all as for as working and glitches. I’d rather companies take their time and release well deserved high rated titles or new titles even than half down crap like most do now.

I would be totally okay with them cutting out all the third party characters and have similar characters (wolf/fox/falco and fire emblem characters etc) as alt costumes rather than full on fighters that requiring individual balancing.

I think the next Smash would be fun as a fully 3D fighter. Would help differentiate from previous entries and would allow for new gameplay and move-sets for all characters

I'd like to see a Sega superstars version of the game which would have cross play with ultimate.... and maybe a 3rd wave of dlc fighters in the future

@Vortexeo Yeah but... removing all the Echo fighters combined wouldn't equal even a single fighters worth of complexity. They're literally just skins.

"I’ve been doing too much of the work myself.”

Then… fuggin’ let someone else help. Like, you can’t say, “I’ve been doing too much work, it’s killing me,” while refusing to let others pick up the slack. The control freak in him will eventually kill the series for me.

Every character is somebody's favourite.

I think maybe the focus should be to go back to the Nintendo aspect of the series and dial back the 3rd party inclusions (I'd miss Banjo though, so keep him lol). Focus on Nintendo's cast, bolster the single player and online modes and only add a slim crop of 3rd party that works alongside them (e.g Banjo & Sonic).

@Nameless_Shame I guess you only read the tagline, so I've copied-and-pasted the whole quote for you for full context.

"Also, I’ve been doing too much of the work myself, so I’d need to resolve that, too. The current Super Smash Bros. has too much of my personality poured into it. In order for a long-time series to continue thriving today, we need to think about eliminating the series’ dependence on just one person’s vision.

Of course, this is the way it is now because we weren’t successful in splitting the vision between multiple people before. This would be a challenge for the future and something that needs to be discussed with Nintendo, if there were to be a next installment in the Super Smash Bros. series."

I'm not often one of those people to be like, "Did you even read the article?" People are busy and have lives to live and can't always be bothered. But before criticizing someone, I would advise making sure you know the full context of what they said first.

I agree with those that are for a reduced roster. We definitely don't need 3 links and the multiple clones of fire emblem characters. I was always of the opinion that each new release from each respective Nintendo franchise would replace the current representative but that has not been the case. For the third-party characters Nintendo could retool their movesets to work with 1st party characters (i.e.: Dillion rolling western in place of Sonic)

On the other hand, Nintendo could take the Capcom Street Fighter approach and iterate the game. Think Street Fighter II and Super Street Fighter II. They could have Smash Ultimate Classic and Smash: Next Gen. The former just a port with enhanced online the later a sequel with reduced/focused roster. They could space these games 2 years apart.

I also like the idea of a 3d smash similar to Powerstone but I agree with what someone else said in that they should be separate franchises. Again Capcom is a great example . Look at Morrigan, she appears in the Capcom Vs and Darkstalkers. Maybe Nintendo could make a "3D smash" featuring just Nintendo villains .

I think they could just do Smash Bros. Ultimate DX on the Switch 2 or whatever, and port the game over with all DLC included, and do another Fighter's Pass or two.

I could see Ultimate as a living game that makes the jump from console to console. There's really NO benefit in cutting the roster down, you're only going to upset players who main the characters that get cut.

And then, yeah, you want a smaller fighting game, you need to start making it different and distinguish it more.

I for one have "hated" ultimate since its inception, but people's inability to see their mains go to the cutting floor is the outlying problem with ultimate & the fanbase, an inability to let go of the old for something new. As a result, ultimate was little more than a greatest hits, like Wario Ware Gold, unless you were paying premium for the new fighters. All the new stages were boring trash, all the single content, with the exception of spirits (maybe) was the worst offering in a Smash Game yet.

If a full reboot means revamping existing characters with outdated movesets with as much love as DLC characters then sure. Characters like Mario, Link and Samus could use an update featuring their modern games' new abilities while characters like Wario feature very little from their origin games

I disagree with one comment. The vision.

The creative vision needs to come from one individual. What needs to improve is the ability to communicate that vision to the team so they’re more effective to implement it.

Ultimate would not be Ultimate without Sakurai. Ultimate is ultimate. You likely can’t surpass it. So please don’t try to, Nintendo.

Take it in a new direction.

More importantly, the sequel / follow up / next entry needs that clear direction. Otherwise, it will fall short.

Maybe the next creative director can improve the quality of their communication and project management skills so they can avoid carrying all the weight.

Anyway, I am grateful for Ultimate. It does everything smash needs to do.

@Caryslan nah, if they do a another game, they'll do something new. as they should. every artist strives for something new. working on the same thing gets boring.

casual fans who dont keep up in the smash bros bubble would definitely be upset at anything smaller than ult. its a tricky situation, cause as long as the name SMASH BROS is tied to it its hard to say how a smaller sequel/reboot can be handled to please the most amount of people

Some people in the comments have no idea how licensing as well as balancing in fighting games work and it shows.

Great, focus on quality instead of quantity. There are just so many forgettable characters like byleth and pyra and echoes should just be skins or give them their own moves.

I don't think that anyone would be pleased with a smaller number of characters. I wouldn't.

I feel that Ultimate is bloated with echo fighters and questionable additions and also under developed when it comes to everything except the actual fighting. Smash 4 is almost perfect imo, building my trophy collection keeps me interested. The extras in 4 are like an interactive Nintendo history lesson with demos & links to eshop VC. Imo Ultimate does the fighting & character/stage/music selection better, everything around that is lacking.

I've seen this issue coming for ages now. Granted, I really thought Smash 4 was going to be the 'big game they can't match or exceed in terms of scale' at the time, but Nintendo went about as big as anyone could possibly imagine with Ultimate.

I understand they can't just keep adding characters to the roster forever. At some point, it'll just become Mugen. At the same time, downsizing the cast is going to feel like a rather severe downgrade from Ultimate. They'd have to pretty dramatically reimagine Smash at that point to maintain my interest at all.

I’d be onboard for a Smash Bros without Sakurai.
I am grateful for this brilliant series I love.
But he’s become a bit of a queen.
Feels like he’s whining all the time, and there are holes in SSBU to be sure. Let him retire.

@link3710 Forgive me but I don't see why that really matters? They said a new smash game would need a smaller roster and removing clone fighters (since they're counted as separate characters and have their own spot on the roster) is an easy place to start.

id really like to see even more customization, i have no dlc but there are still lots and lots of characters and stages that get no play at all, they are literally clutter. ive turned off alot of the items available in the game (weve been turning off certain items since the melee days) and it seems like itd be easy to do the same for stages and characters.

if you can imagine filters that are deep enough that one could basically recreate the scope of melee, in terms of stages, characters, and items, thats what i want. throw as many goofy anime inspired sword characters and whatever else, if i can turn them off im happy 😊

I don't think Ultimate hit its "volume of content". Don't get me wrong, I'm more than thankful for what we received and all the hard work put into the game, going to be playing this for years. But if they're so worried about the next game and all the challenges a sequel would face, why not just support Ultimate more? Nothing wrong with a development break and yes Sora is the final fighter - you can't just jump back in and be like "here's more!" - I just don't think shutting the doors with a permanent mindset is a good idea

@-wc- bruh how have you not bought a single dlc

@Vortexeo My point was that your post stated you could remove ~12 characters that easily (sorry not looking back to find it right now for exact numbers). But realistically, it's more like removing ~4 characters. Ditching Echoes barely counts in reducing roster size.

This is what Satoru Iwata said about Smash Bros in an old Iwata Asks interview immediately after the launch of Super Smash Bros for Wii U/3DS:

"As new titles were added to the Super Smash Bros series, the cast of characters grew and new modes were introduced, so that each installment boasted an exceptional volume of content. In general, I think that making a game bigger is often times not the way to make it better, but with Super Smash Bros, I see things differently. It felt right to squeeze as much in there as possible, like some kind of a bottomless vessel, the sort of game where quantity works."

Super Smash Bros Ultimate is the perfect representation of this philosophy, and though I don't expect future Smash Bros titles to retain every character from every previous game (i.e. no more "Everyone is here"), they will all be content-packed titles with tons of features, game modes, and fan-service.

@burninmylight But what else can they do? They cannot repeat everyone is here again if they're moving on, and they can't keep building on the same roster. And them making the online better or a full out story mode will not be enough. Them changing the game might be the only way the next game won't look like a downgrade.

It would also be a good measure to port Ultimate with all the DLC if the next Nintendo Console was backwards compatible.

@GinMiguel Other fighting game series have had sequels with smaller rosters (Mortal Kombat, Dead or Alive), and they seem to be just fine.

Oh, and have you heard of this other little game series out there that upset a lot of its fans (including this one right here) when it had game come out a couple of years ago with a drastically smaller roster? Some people call it Pokemon. Guess what? Sword and Shield are the second best selling pair of games in the series.

So what they can do is to continue to make the magnificent fighting game series that everyone loves (more than 25 million sales on Switch) while possibly experimenting drastically different game ideas with spinoff games. Nintendo didn't stop making Super Mario platformers after Mario 3, it made Super Mario World AND Mario Kart.

@burninmylight Smash isn't like other fighting games or platformers though and Sakurai works way harder than Gamefreak. They can either side step by changing Smash to compensate for a smaller roster or just step back entirely with the same formula but sacrifice the roster.

@GinMiguel How is Smash different from other fighting games?

@burninmylight Look at the gameplay of smash and each game where Ryu, Ken, Kazuya, Terry come from and take them into acount. Also note how Smash has only increased in size, where other games haven't always and even at some point went with less. That may happen this time but something has to update to make the package worth it.

@GinMiguel So Smash is different from a mechanics standpoint. I still don't see your point. Difference without a distinction.

Like I said earlier, other fighting games have come out with sequels with smaller rosters, yet they seem to be doing just fine. Show me the Street Fighter that suddenly went 3D that everyone loves and remembers. Oh wait, Street Fighter EX exists, except it's hardly loved and remembered. What about Mortal Kombat? Went 3D during the PS2 era and became increasingly less relevant, then went right back to its 2D roots during the PS3 era while shortening the roster. It's as popular as it's ever been now.

For a publisher/developer to make a completely different game coming off of a series that just sold 25m+ would be completely asinine. It's one thing to add a brand new game mode, it's another thing to completely change the kind of game it is at a fundamental level.

"Hey guys, since we can't have as many characters as last time, let's make a completely different type of game instead."

@burninmylight Yeah but were those not respondent to the roster from the previous game to big for upcoming entry's engine? Or were they just not refined enough or have enough content in their packages?

@GinMiguel I'm honestly not sure what you're asking or trying to say.