Uh-Oh, Nintendo Switch Online's N64 Games Might Be 50Hz In Europe

Uh, going for authenticity I guess? 😓

It's a bummer, but I feel like people forget that the main reason Nintendo Switch Online is in place, is so people can play their games online. The classic games are a bonus, not the main feature.

MAMMA MIA!
This must be the work of Bowser...

I mean in the UK version of the Direct the game boxes shown did say PAL Version so ...

No duh?

...Uh... Really? Wow, I mean you could probably just download the US version of the thing but still, that's impressive if true. 50HZ REALLY should not be a concern at this day and age.

It really does annoy me that when Nintendo finally decided to purge the region lock thing they stopped doing a proper virtual console service.

But WHY tho.....? Kinda silly. Not that I'd ever pay a subscription fee to play a few 25 year old games once. Again. Despite having a far superior version of the best ones on DS/3DS already.

If this is true, I wonder if installing the app from the US eShop then running it with the profile linked to the active NSO account would overcome the issue. I know that you can access the Japanese NSO titles that way, so it stands to reason that it would work for the 60Hz US titles. Silly even needing to have a workaround like that, so hopefully it's not even an issue!

Oh no. Not like this. Not like this. I imported my N64 back in the day for precisely this reason. If there are genuinely folk thinking this is the proper way toplay these games...then I don't know where to begin to tell them they are wrong, categorically! As categorically wrong as Nintendo are for re-releasing un optimised games for a region. Boo.

Edit. I will concede I am getting a weird perverse sense of nostalgia thinking about visiting the US eshop haha.

@Expa0 Just goes to show how lazy this whole service is.
Ever since Virtual Console was abandoned, we've started all the way back to zero with retro game releases.

Oh no not this again!!! It was the same issue on Wii Virtual Console and they still don't understand it? The have not learnt their lesson?

@Mauzuri
"so what?" "well it would have been nice"
Typically if people can't have a nice thing they feel not nice. You kinda even alluded to knowing that already.

Just make a second account. And download the player for another region. That’s how I play Japanese games…

Many people are not going to care because they are going to be playing the version they are used to. The majority of consumers are not enthusiasts. They buy a product and consume said product.

Honestly, this is going to be funnier if you're able to switch to a different region on your European account to a North American one, and it runs 60Hz smoothly. But you also have to pay for another NSO account to access those versions 😂

We are living in days in which N64 games can be emulated on PC at 60fps in 4k. There is no excuse as to why 60fps should not be the case on Switch either for N64 emulation. I will be very disappointed if 50hz is the standard for N64 games in Europe, and does this affect us playing online with those on other continents.

The PAL versions of Mario Tennis and Yoshi Story from memory were optimised to use all the lines and run at a similar video. Super Mario 64 and Mario Kart 64 were not optimised well as they use less lines (black boarders) and run slower. Although Mario Kart 64 in NTSC isn't much better when it comes to speed.

Thankfully, just make a USA account and download the N64 App. Problem solved.

There's always a caveat with Nintendo

Sounds like an outdated worry. All these Switch games and retro games on the Switch, has there ever been a region specific display problem like this?

@RadioShadow I believe you lose your Gold Points if you do that though.

Holy *****. Paying extra just for N64 games that aren't even at full speed? Way to ***** over your European customers.

I have a hard time telling the difference. I mean this is bizarre. Why don't they just keep it the same across regions? But I don't think I'd even notice.

Well I am in NA, so don’t need to worry about it I guess

This service keeps getting worse and worse doesn’t it?

It's mindboggling that this is a problem in the year 2021. What's next, Auntie Ninty? You going back to the days when you pretended entire regions of the world didn't exist?

Someone on Twitter analysed the boxarts from Euro direct and noted that the games with multiple translations look to be 50hz PAL and the ones with only English are 60hz NTSC... This is clear from the boxarts... So we're getting a mixture and is a case of 60hz where possible. See here: https://twitter.com/LuigiBlood/status/1441396625704849417?s=19

@damo

No point paying for expansion pak if that is the case. I opted for both USA N64 and GameCube back in the day because games ran faster and were full screen.

Will we get Lylat Wars instead of Star Fox then?

Two questions to ask first: was the refresh rate discrepancy the same in NES/SNES eras, and if yes, has it been reflected in the respective NSO apps?

@CupidStunt Why would doing that make you lose your Gold Points? I had a Japanese account without NSO so that I could download the Famicom and Super Famicom libraries, and accessing and playing them from my UK account worked fine. I don’t understand what connection doing this would have to your existing Gold Points at all

Everybody Hertz…

…Sometimes.

Meh, don’t care as long as they’re playable

@russell-marlow Doubtful that would happen. Having a Japanese Switch account without NSO allows you to download the Famicom and Super Famicom libraries, and access them with your other accounts that do have NSO.

Are Nintendo really this stupid? There is literally no reason to use the PAL versions and you can just download the US online games anyway. I don't even see why they aren't using the enhanced Mario 64 emulated version that they have already literally created for Switch

it gives europeans the option to play in their native language, which is a good thing. if they want the 60hz version but play in english only they can get the us version or the japanese version if they want japanese exclusives

I have both an EU and US account (EU with NSO), so this won't be an issue for me.

@Clyde_Radcliffe That actually makes a lot of sense. I'm glad people get to play the games in their native language. I hope there's a way to switch between the two versions but I'm kind of doubtful. If not, I'll just download the US app.

@nhSnork yes it was, though often less noticable and I can't say I've noticed any of the SNES or NES games being the PAL versions

@nhSnork it was the same in the nes/snes era, the switch apps are the exact same between the us and europe though, so all 60hz and english only

@Clyde_Radcliffe @Late surely they could import the translated text into the NTSC versions though

Oh boy… Nintendo: 2 steps forward, 1 step back. 😩
(Sometimes)

This would be incredibly lame if that's the case and I might not even bother getting the upgraded subscription just out of spite even if I can just download the US one.

@CharlieGirl In this case, the N64 games are the main feature. You pay an extra fee for them. But it's not much of an issue, just log in to the US eShop and download that version of the app. Though I suppose not everyone would know you can even do that, which can be a problem.

@Markiemania95 you're correct in both of your responses. It doesn't matter if you download the other region versions with an account that isn't subscribed to NSO, because the console checks which account you use when starting them up.

Just play the american versions then?

Nintendo Switch owners are used to <30 FPS. So, no problem there.

@CharlieGirl they are the “main feature” of the Expansion Pak, which is a paid service in addition to the NSO membership. In this case they are not just a bonus.

@carlos82 If you want an opinion from a programmer, I don't think it's as easy of an operation as you think it is.

@Markiemania95 Well, I guess that's a simple way of showing Nintendo that someone fudged up making the decision to bring those lower resolution games to NSO Europe.

I'm betting money that we're even getting the original American release of Mario 64 on U.S. NSO (the "so long gay Bowser" version) even after we got that Mario 3D All Stars release that had those Japan exclusive changes.

I'll never understand why Nintendo has never thought about giving the option to play different regional versions of those games without having to change accounts. Nintendo is full on lazy mode this generation.

@russell-marlow I think the reasoning is because of the support for languages that aren't English, so for certain games you have to have the 50Hz version so French people can play in French and so on.

But just having the ability to swap between different regional versions like you suggest would be a more elegant solution for sure.

Waaaaahooooooo

If it’s the pal version. That wahooo needs more a’s and o’s

Well many of the PAL 50Hz versions of games were also the only ones translated to languages other than English so it makes sense for those versions to be released across Europe. For us in the UK it's not as good but to my knowledge not many NTSC-U games had languages other than English and potential Spanish in a few games, unless someone can correct me?

One of the reasons Paper Mario was on a much larger cartridge in Europe was it had multiple languages to choose from.

I don't see why this can't be an option within the app. N64 games are not GBs in size so you could just have an option in the settings to pick between 50hz and 60hz.

And of course it won't be every game regardless. Sin and Punishment and Dr Mario 64 never got the 50hz treatment.

I've been switching my actual N64 games from PAL to NTSC-U or NTSC-J, I can't play at 50hz anymore.

I'll stop NSO on my UK account and do it on my US instead. No harm done.

@Mauzuri The mentality of a Nintendo fan right here. "Nintendo won't ever listen to the customer, let's just be happy for the scraps."

Not that I disagree with you. When was the last time Nintendo ever caved on anything?

I guess adding the translations to the NTSC versions would require more effort than just uploading a ROM and calling it a day. You can't expect any effort being put into this, it is not like you are paying extra for it ...oh wait.

@Orpheus79V Yes, it's something other developers have done.
Hamster Arcade Archives already does this.

@eltomo you dont need to do that, you can keep playing with your main account. you can download other regions nso apps without a subscription

Does this mean Lylatwars rather than Star Fox 64

@Late but with Mario 64 on 3d All Stars they used lua scripts to replace textures on the fly, would this be possible with text? Speaking of which I do find it odd they're not using that version or bringing it's benefits to the other games

@Westlondonmist Considering the picture attached to this story shows Lylat Wars, I'd say yes.

@carlos82 @Bustacap thanks. In that case, seeing as the problem existed but has been avoided before, the next logical step is to wait and see if this will apply to the expansion platforms or not.

Glad I’ve still got access to so many of these via the wii virtual console

@nhSnork even if it does your membership will allow you to download the US versions anyway and get round the problem

Nintendo should just let us access the versions from all regions. Having to set up accounts in different countries is such a pain.

The Switch's success is making Nintendo lazier and lazier. Apparently they need to fail again like with the Wii U to again start doing something more intelligent.

You guys know you can just set up another account that's US to play the game at 60 hz rightM

@lokozar Hz does not equal fps.

@Haruki_NLI The Wii U VC used the 60HZ version of the games in Europe. I don't see the point, or at least give us an easy option to choose the American versions within the app itself.

@Bustacap if that's the case then this in non-news for me. I have 5 other regions on my Switch, making another region account is a piece of cake.

People bashing Nintendo here need to find something news worthy to do their pointless trash talk.

With tv’s all being Wide Screen, won’t having the borders be better ? (Should get more screen fill)
On the 50 vs 60Hz thing. Growing up with this, I actually don’t mind this in some games. Sonic 1 for example, I actually like the slower music on Green Hill Zone. It’s too fast with 60Hz

Edit: if they are releasing this games at original PAL speed in EU, they would have done the same with SNES and NES (same situation right?)

@Figo you could also temporarily change the region of your account, download the app and change back

Isn’t 50hz the standard in Europe? So what’s the issue! 😝

@Scrubicius it hasnt been the standard for games in europe for more than 15 years

PAL versions were superior to NTSC on two things.

• Higher Resolution
• Proper colors

Remember GameCube and Wii?

NTSC.. Only 480p
PAL.. 576p

The question is.
Lower resolution + better framerate.
or
Higher resolution with better colors.

@carlos82 Each game is built differently. There's no universal solution since the data is structured differently in every game. Switching textures around is easier since it's just an image file. It takes the same amount of space on the surface. Text on the other hand may fit on one row in one language but needs multiple text boxes in other. So the game should also replicate parts of the code. The additional data also needs to reside somewhere. US versions don't have all the characters like ü and ò ready in the rom data. There'll also be 3rd party games and it would probably be their job to provide the same functionality since they own the source code. In other words, it's just too much work for something like this. It all comes back to money. It's not worth it.

I don’t understand why they don’t just include both versions, at least for Europe and Australia, whose TVs generally support multiple refresh rates, while I have recently learned that US TVs generally do not support 50Hz (and would therefore not natively support PAL).

Users will ultimately have to toss up between:
PAL (25fps/720x576)
NTSC (29.97fps/720x480)

Of course, if Nintendo’s emulators render at 1080p by default, then this shouldn’t be an issue, though the frame rate issue remains (for those who consider that a problem).

@russell-marlow : That’s not how it works, at least not for NES and SNES games. If you assign a US based NNID to a user account on your Switch, then you can access the US eShop, and you should be able to download the software without issue.

You will need an NSO account to actually play the games, but as long as you play them via your normal account (assuming you have an existing membership), then you should be fine.

But with this bizarre choice to make an “expansion pack” for NSO could throw a spanner in the works. The way NSO currently works is that it doesn’t matter what region the software is from, any game that contains online capability can be used. I’m not sure if this could affect expansion pack content from other regions though.

@CharlieGirl Except that now youll be charged E´xtra to play N64 games... so no

@Ventilator : Colour reproduction shouldn’t be an issue with modern displays.

Should it?

@Jake_qwerp
Yes, it does. One Hertz is one cycle per second. FPS is "frames per second", or in other words cycles per second ...

@lokozar fps are independent of hz

@Silly_G You are right. That were actually a problem on NTSC CRT TV's.

Higher resolution or Framerate then.

@Zequio You could just... not pay the extra. I'm not going to 🤷‍♀️

I fully expected the European roms for games with multiple language translations. But I also fully expected the non-optimised games to simply have a toggle in the emulator to push it to 60hz. Theres no excuse for slower, jerkier, maybe even letterboxed games nowadays

As a major collector of CIB European games myself (because its these I grew up with an have nostalgia for the packaging) I mod all my retro consoles to have a 60hz toggle. Its painful to go back to the original limitations.

And before anyone says it, yes this was a noticable problem back in the day too. As a launch day purchaser of an N64 & Mario 64, my next planned purchase was Wave Race, and I eagerly anticipated its release, saving my pocket money, and plastering my walls with posters and articles about it from Nintendo magazines. Trouble was I'd played an imported version in local indie game shop demo kiosks many times and even rented a Japanese system for a weekend to play it. When it was eventually released in the UK, I went to the shop to buy it... but I saw how slow and unresponsive it felt by comparison, and the larger borders, and I was so saddenned and disapointed I didn't buy it. Soon after I sold my UK N64 (and bought a Saturn which I modded) and later bought an American system with stepdown converter to avoid these issues. I only ever found one television that didn't like 60hz, our old 14" Sony from 1978. All our 80s and 90s tvs played it fine, even the budget ones.

@CharlieGirl that’s right. The main feature is laggy online with no native voice chat no native messaging and few online games.

If we ever come down to the point where Smash 64, you can bet that people will be having lots of trouble adjusting to the regional differences, for those who never played it online yet.

@Ventilator That 576 lines for most retro games (including non optimised N64 titles) just means we got 480 lines with a border at the top and bottom, and the picture in the middle appearing slightly squished.

"Optimised" games that were stretched to fit meant that 2d assets were non pixel perfect and ended up with shimmering on movement and weird uneven step edges. Polygon stuff was less effected of course but the texture maps still suffered a quality drop, and the stepped edges also lost smoothness/evenness.

@Bustacap
What are you trying to say? Sure, my screen can have different Hz than the FPS my GPU throws out. So? 50 FPS/Hz are still more than the usual <30 FPS/Hz on Switch. Hence 50 FPS/Hz are no problem.

@lokozar Most N64 games ran at less than 30fps, regardless of the hz, which was how many times the tv screen refreshed, not how many unique images the console pumped out. So, a game like WaveRace running at an already low 20fps (updating 60 times per second, but only a unique image every 3 frames) became more like 16-17 fps on the 50hz versions, but also running slower. Its just like playing everything in slightly jerky slow motion.

@samuelvictor
If you're putting out 30 FPS on 50 Hz you still get 30 FPS. It doesn't run any different than putting out 30 FPS on 30 Hz or 60 Hz. You get into trouble if you're e.g. trying to put out 30 FPS on 24 Hz.

@lokozar Absolutely correct on modern games but thats not how it worked on this old hardware where the actual timing of the games was tied to the refresh rate of the output. As in Jon's video - Epona runs slower. The Audio runs slower. Its not at all like (say) Sonic Colors running at 30fps on Switch and 60fps on PS5, Sonic runs at the same speed, and the music plays at the same speed, just with less unique frames appearing on screen, making it seem slightly less smooth. This is an entirely different phenomina, like you have switched Youtube into 0.75 playback speed, and everything feels dreamlike and slightly warped.

There's plenty of 50hz vs 60hz direct capture comparrison videos of N64, SNES, Genesis etc on YouTube or whatever that explain far better than having it technically explained.

And that's what it was when the n64 launched in Europe

@CharlieGirl The upgraded NSO membership tier is explicitly because of support for these consoles being added, though.

@lokozar In this context, 50hz/60hz doesn't really concern screen refresh rate but instead the utility frequency of the power grid that is used in a certain part of the world. Because the chips inside the console are running at lower power frequency, the games are running slower. However, this can be taken into account in the code itself to make the games run at the same speed. Problem is, not all games were optimized properly.

@sixrings I don't have any issues with lagging when I play online not even nes and snes apps lag for me

@samuelvictor
Understood. It worked differently back then. Interesting that they linked both together.

@Bustacap So were your Gamecube and Wii games affected the same like N64 with the 50Hz?

Every single time you guys ask for commentary, you get some PR bs denying it why do you still try?

@carlos82 oh, that goes without saying (assuming I'll even care enough to - for all I know, the PAL's "17% slower" might still be faster than how my old PC ran emulated NTSC roms back in the late noughties😆). I was mostly addressing the general unease here.

@VeraTepes because making open inquiries to the proper sources, regardless of formality in the results, is kinda part of a decent journalist's code. Credit where it's due that fandom-managed media like NL at least haven't given up on this one.

@Bustacap but but that’s how old the N64 is? 😝

@Porky The Wii runs every game at 50hz by default when you first take the console out the box, however you could set the options menu of the console to default to 60hz. Every game was capable of running 60hz, you just need to remember to set that option when you first setup a new console. (ignoring virtual console releases which are often 50hz, grr)

Gamecube was on a game by game basis. All games ran at 50hz, some (about half?) the games gave you the option to up it to 60hz. This was also the case with Dreamcast, Xbox and PS2, though the PS2 had the worst ratio of games offering the choice.

Nintendolife's very own Jon did a really good video covering this kinda stuff on the "Good Vibes Gaming" channel, called "Why Every Game was Slower in Europe" btw

Well that will be a mess, does the Switch even have 50Hz output? I know PS4 doesn't so the 50Hz PS2 games forced into 60Hz introduced frame pacing problems making them appear to run even worst than the originals on a 50Hz TV. Not that I'd sub to this anyway though, to be honest.

@Scrubicius the n64 is 25 years old

Don’t pay for this crap! They will soon sort.

They could fix this so even the pal games ran at 60hz hell they could fix it so all N64 ran at 60fps rather than the janky sub 20 that plagues a a lot of them but they didn’t do that for NES/SNES which made some games especially SuperFX ones absolutely dreadful to revisit, having all these retro games with improved performance would actually be with paying a subscription for.

@russell-marlow

Not lazy at all. If true they’ve actually put in extra work to make the service worse.

I like how they add the borders to the PAL game art. Looks horrible.

@russell-marlow nintendo's availability for you is not a result of them being lazy. by all means though, take your business elsewhere with a group harder working than nintendo if you insist on keeping your opinion.

Only time Ive ever felt like saying this.. so here goes.. it’s good to be American

Let me reiterate: ONLY when it comes to this one and only topic.. this country is a sh*tshow

@lokozar 50hz for 2D were buttersmooth, but 50hz on N64 3D games....
A lot of N64 games only ran at 15-20 FPS.

@CharlieGirl We won't be playing games online with our American and Japanese friends if ours are 50hz and theirs are 60hz. There is a 20% speed difference

I cant win. My original JP N64 would only play in black and white because my TV was 50hz. Now I have a state of the art Oled that doesn't go below 60hz they wont run either.

@Ventilator Hz and fps are 2 completely different things.

This will literally never happen. For one they won't program them differently for regions, and two all the classic systems ran on NTSC 60HZ roms.

@Codessa This is utter nonsense and will never happen.

@CupidStunt Yes, but 50hz for 2D Games floated like water.
25hz on 2D Games stuttered a lot.

Gods, Speedball 2, Chaos Engine etc. were only 25hz.

@samuelvictor

Only if you ran NTSC on PAL consoles.
PAL were not playable on NTSC TV's as they couldn't show whole game screen as it were outside screen area on NTSC.

I guess you live in USA?

CD32 console here as an example.
99% of games on that console were made from scratch for PAL TV's only.
This annoyed Americans as they couldn't import the console from Europe as the resolution were too high for NTSC.

Fun Fact: CD32 and CDTV console were American consoles, but were only sold in Europe. Thats why all the games had properly made PAL games as the consoles couldn't be sold in USA.

Commodore evaded taxes in USA, and is why they had to stick with Europe only. Their console stocks were in Phillipines.

Also. Europe also had a thing called PAL 60 which made PAL Games run at same speed as NTSC with full screen and 100% accurate aspect ratio.

Several of the TV's i owned supported PAL, PAL 60, NTSC and SECAM.

Hahahaha and people are going to be paying for this "service" good luck to them ROFL 🤣😆😆

@SpaceboyScreams or that anyone w a series s/x can pay $20 for a developer license & play them all on RetroArch for eternity for...free (after entry fee, ofc). Those who don't have an Xbox, ofc,, can't, but gamers who care about playing older games in general should probably have/get one.

@huyi this means they get WAY more than $10each or whatever per title. Does anyone honestly need these games online that badly? If so, at least you can get them, i guess. The rest of us have much cheaper avenues to play these. I will save the 7 day fee trials up & burn them for 7 days binge occasionally,,so hopefully they have something similar for the "expansion pack" Nintendo online services. If not, oh well. I have paper Mario 64 on my wii, but need to buy a classic controller or wiimote, as mine filled up w battery acid, since I didn't realize someone played it before i packed it up long ago & left the batteries in it .

@Ventilator Interesting post, I enjoyed reading it! And yes in a way you are correct, but only in very specific circumstances not really related to this N64 topic, because they are mostly relating to microcomputers rather than consoles, which of course were the predominant market in the UK and Europe for the 80s and early 90s.

Basically the problem is, was the game made by developers who were targetting NTSC markets? The majority of console based games (which on a Nintendo site is naturally what people will mostly be thinking of) were made by either Japanese or American developers, for the NTSC system, and got butchered when ported for PAL hardware.

I'm actually from the UK, and grew up with microcomputers long before I got consoles. Of course, the CD32 and CDTV were essentially consolised Amiga 500 + 1200 systems in a box with a built in CD-ROM. I've heard from many of my American colleagues just how frustrating and often actually impossible it was to play PAL created microcomputer games for their C64s and Amigas (and therefore CDTV and CD32) on their NTSC tvs. Famousely there were often completely different games with the same name for the C64 for that exact reason, it was easier for American publishers to start from scratch. This makes life as a collector (or a rom/image downloader!) pretty confusing!

Of course though, this is because these games were made in the UK (or the rest of Europe) for systems that were very successful in these markets, so were designed to be used on the PAL system and take advantage of its strengths, and work aournd its weaknesses.

All of my posts above and frustrations growing up were in console games that were made by either American or Japanese companies, primarily for those markets. In the 90s I owned an NES, Master System, SNES, Mega Drive (+32X and Mega CD), N64, Saturn, and Dreamcast. The Dreamcast was the only system that didn't run with big borders, a squished picture, and nearly 20% slower for the majority of games.

There were of course rare occasions when British developers strayed from the microcomputers and developped games for consoles, and targetted PAL systems. My favourite example of this is the Codemasters games for the Master System, which ran at basically full screen and looked and ran superior to most of the other games on the system, in PAL territoires at least. Sadly, these games simply don't work on NTSC machines, and many emulators can't run them properly because of the tricks they used to be so optimised.

[edit] obviously I'm aware Commodore/Amiga was "American" owned hardware. But the primary market for the Amiga machines at least was Europe, and the majority of the games developers were based here. You mentioned PAL 60 and SECAM, both of which are interesting topics in their own right but again they aren't really relevant as to why N64 titles in 50hz is such a terrible idea for a modern system

Mario 64 in Europe was 25FPS which is fine as most of us played it that way and we’re use to it. I still have my pal Nintendo 64 but now I play them all in ntsc and keep my pal collection boxed

Well... The problem wasn't really sorted on WiiU neither, cause lots of Virtual Consoles games lost their translation in the process.

For exemple : I've got Mario 64 on Wii - it's the PAL version with multi-langage, designed for European players. And I've also got it on WiiU : NTSC - so yeah, faster gameplay - but also less vibrant colors and... english only. Wich is a little annoying for young kids who does not master Shakespeare's mother tongue.

So, for this Switch NSO thing... I personnally tend now to prefer the PAL versions : not because they're better (I don't pretend they are) but simply because they're the versions we were used to play, when we were younger.

And that's the all point of this process, from my point of view : nostalgia.

So I guess I'm ok with that.

Can the Swich’s built in screen even refresh at 50Hz? If not, they’re going to be even worse than on a TV playing in handheld mode!

Thanks. So you know Commodore etc. well then.
Sure, CD32 and CDTV had Amiga inside, but consoles after year 2000 had PC components inside.

In fact GameCube used a CPU based on PowerPC which were also used in Amiga and MAC in later part of 1990's.
GameCube PPC were made by IBM.
ATI (Now AMD) Designed the Graphics part of GC.
Factor 5 most famous from AMIGA designed the sound Chip in GameCube.
Xbox 1 (2001) were more or less a PC in a console box.
PS4, PS5, Xbox One and Series S|X uses PC components.

Switch is an exception as it uses a chip designed for Android TV. First made for NVIDIA Shield TV.

I remember the butchering of games ported to PAL, but i don't see the PAL/NTSC problem in 1980's as you couldn't port much games back then.
All console games had to be made from scratch on all systems back then, so it were pointless to to make NTSC version for Europe.
When Epyx (Most famous for C64 versions) for example made a game for up to like 10 systems at the same time. Every single system got their own made versions from scratch.

As for resolution. Japan and American developers knew NTSC worked fine on PAL, but at the same time they probably didn't want Europe to get PAL versions with higher resolutions than their own NTSC system.
Thankfully whole planet uses same TV system now.

Back then it were war between everything.
Way worse than it is today. Fanboy'ism were almost worse during C64/ZX Spectrum/BBC/Dragon 64 and Amstrad period and Amiga vs PC than it is today.
Commodore boss Jack Tramiel and Nintendo's Yamauchi were probably two of the most ruthless business people on the planet to top it off.

UK probably dominated gaming development in Europe.
UK also had most of the legendary game composers ever.. Rob Halford, Mark Cooksey, Martin Galway, Ben Daglish, Matt Gray, David Whittaker and many more were all from UK.
Germany had the legendary Chris Huelsbeck.
Whole Scandinavia and UK composers dominated in the Amiga Demo scene.

Rob Hubbard were even knighted by the Queen for inventing game music on C64 which later spawned to other systems.
Thanks to Commodore for the SID chip in C64 superior to everything else. First time it were possible to use samples too on a home computer. SID is the most beloved sound chip ever in any system even today.

You are right that USA And Japan totally dominated gaming on consoles. For that reason many games never came to Europe, and many games came to Europe 1-2 years after Japan and even USA sometimes.
UK dominated on C64, Amiga, PC etc.

Fun fact. Some Wii U games were released first in Europe.
Most of the Collector's Editions on Wii U were released in Europe, but not in USA.

As for N64. PAL 60 were never a thing on that console, if any console at all ever.
Why 50hz is bad for N64 is that loads of the games on it ran at less than 20 FPS. At 60hz you will notice a framerate upgrade.

The only of 2 60 FPS Games ever made on N64 were F-Zero X. Probably also the fastest booting game on any console ever.
Turn on N64 and you were on menu already. Everything in F-Zero were about speed in any way possible. LOL
The other 60 FPS game were Smash Bros. They had to simplify graphics in both games hit that framerate.
Edit: Kirby 64 were a third 60 FPS Game on N64.

Gotta love that Nintendo, and also Microsoft focuses to hard on 60 FPS on their consoles. Sony care more about graphics than framerate. lol
Personally i prefer framerate first.

@Ventilator Sounds like we have a lot of the same interests and knowledge overlap! You are preaching to the converted with most of that but its always interesting to see and I'm sure others will find it interesting too. There was huge slowdown and bordering issues with pretty much all early console games (I remember the first time I saw an American copy of Sonic the Hedgehog and was floored by how much faster it was, and how different the music sounded!) but you are 100% right that the N64 was when it REALLY became a noticable problem, simply because the framerates were so low in most games. As I mentioned above, seeing the PAL Wave Rave for the first time really drove it home after being used to the imported Japanese one, to the point that after that I found it impossible to go back, even though modding and importing was expensive and difficult back in 97! In a way, I'm grateful as I also modded my Saturn and got into the import scene, so many amazing Japan exclusives! But thats another story.

I've also noticed that with Sony - to me it feels very strange to launch a brand new next gen console, and have the flagship games offer a choice of 2 modes, fancy graphics OR 60fps. It feels like both are making a compromise on what should be your flashy new expensive toy. Feels more like a "PC" move than a console one. But again, as you pointed out, modern consoles are basically PCs with standardised hardware in a fancy box.

@russell-marlow the irony is it’s not lazy it’s the opposite - it’s harder work for them to have different versions running. They are going out of their way to make the service worse. It’s so bizarre. Like not giving Japan Dr Mario and two other games…. Why not give all three. Why not give the two Japanese games to everyone with a little Flag to display they are “imported” titles. It would just all be bonus stuff. But they LOVE restricting stuff. It’s super bizarre

I don't mind 50hz, as I'm used to that (and you can just make an extra account), though it would be nifty if you could change versions.

I'm more curious about the other aspects of emulation. The versions on the Wii U were rather dark, I believe (?). How will the colours be, sharpness etc.

If you're sheepish enough to pay even more for their horrible NSO "service", well then you deserve this crap

@CharlieGirl "people forget that the main reason Nintendo Switch Online is in place, is so people can play their games online. The classic games are a bonus, not the main feature".

I don't know if somebody else has replied but Nintendo announced Nintendo 64 and Mega Drive games as a premium subscription so you don't need it to play online unless you want to play those specific game libraries.

This will cause timing issues due to the switch outputting the signal at 60Hz. Pretty certain the console is unable to output at 50Hz, plus there's the internal screen too. Will be a juddery mess. Will be passing on this. Extremely lazy, especially given the fact you'll be paying extra for the subscription. They should be reworking the additional languages into the NTSC ROMs. Or at the very least enable a 50Hz output option from the console via HDMI, almost all EU TVs are capable of 50Hz native refresh, that would eliminate the judder.

@Codessa I've owned a C8 and C9 LG OLED and both are fully 50Hz compatible (EU models, tested with retro consoles via OSSC). Pretty certain that all EU OLEDS can natively refresh 50Hz. The issue is that the Switch console itself doesn't have the option to output the signal.

@samuelvictor Yeah. We have experienced most it seems.

Amazing that games were even playable at double resolution on N64 with RAM pack. Turok 2, Top Gear Overdrive and 10's of other games supported the RAM pack.

Can't say PS1 were any better than N64 in any way as it suffered from poor frame rate, 3D clipping bugs, very slow perspective correction, lack of trilinear filtering, very long loading times etc. Loading a game on PS1 can be compared to turbo tape games on C64.
This is the reason why Nintendo didn't use CD for N64 games. Too long loading times.

Saturn were never sold here as Sega locally went bancrupt during Megadrive days because of Nintendomation.

Dreamcast were a perfect a console back then. Great graphics, Great frame rate and decent loading times.

I remember Crazy Taxi only have correct color palette on Dreamcast and Arcade.100% of the ports ever have too dark graphics and wrong colors.
It's almost like comparing Amiga's pastel palette vs rastered colors on VGA games on PC.

I remember Wave Race 64 PAL as a great game at N64 launch.
Too bad we never get a HD version of it.
Closest to HD version we ever got were on GameCube.
At least you can upscale it in a emulator.

As for PS5. Many claim it's on par with PC, but it's not.
As you mention. Something is wrong if you can't get good graphics and 60 fps at the same time on newest consoles.
My guess is that they either lack optimizing skills or are too lazy, and don't care as they get the money anyway.
Another thing is that Sony don't care much for 1440p either.

None of the new consoles can run Far Cry 6 with Ray Tracing as it's too heavy. So much for the Ray Tracing hardware. RT is PC exclusive in FC 6. Not bad that they something extra for PC only.
At some point many people will figure out that you can't get 2000-3000$ PC hardware in a 600$ console. The new consoles is bottlenecked like any earlier gen.

I have RTX 3070 / AMD Ryzen 5900X (12 Core), so i will get Far Cry 6 on PC. It's practically my Series X console too because it uses Xbox Eco-System in Game Pass, but have more power than Series X and PS5.

Eh, I live in the US so, don't care.

Sucks if true for Europeans, I guess? Maybe wait and see once released.

So the emulation is lazy? Shocking.

I doubt this will happen because only the early N64 PAL games "suffered" this problem. Curiously, Shadows Of The Empire, one of the early games, was full screen. I even sensed it might be when buying it, so the force works in mysterious ways. Second, the year is 2021 and I see no reason to give some territories a different product. It didn’t happen with SNES online or the mini consoles, and it makes no sense anyway when all modern TVs can cope with various signal speeds. Heck, most latter CRT TVs back in the day could as well. I was playing my USA SNES and later my modded PAL SNES on my "giant" 68 cm CRT no problems.

1. Create second account with US region
2. Download the US version of the app
3. Play the app with your main account that has the sub

boom, 60Hz

(can also do this with Japan BTW)

@RadioShadow You're right, most games were optimised. Mostly it was the early games that suffered. Even then, some of the borders were thin whereas Wave Race had fat ones. Shadows Of The Empire - an early game - was full screen. Despite this, there's no reason not to release NTSC versions unless Nintendo is ultra pedantic trying to provide an authentic nostnostalgia hit to the few people that would remember or even care.

@russell-marlow
Thankfully, you can use your same NSO account to play the North American versions.
EDIT: See skywake's comment above.

@Stocksy Wait, that's something I missed.
On the regular NSO in American here, I noticed that they had some Japanese exclusive games released on the SNES app, but they didn't bother releasing other Japan exclusive Super Famicom games when they released later. So what gives?
Where's the option to play those other Super Famicom games without changing accounts?

"What were they thinking?"

'Two Words for Nintendo fans: uh-oh!'

Well at least the games will last longer…

Despite the numerous graphical improvements done to both ocarina if time & Majorca’s mask over each of their re-releases; Nintendo’s lead console will only get the graphical changes related to censorship. (Link’s mirror sheild)

I’d rather pay 39.99 to 79.99 for the 3DS versions to be re-released in FHD.

79.99 if they are bundled together on the same cartridge.

How's that going to work for online play? Say for example in Mariokart will the European carts be slower than American ones?

@CharlieGirl the “Expansion Pack” that contains N64 is strictly optional and contains N64 and Genesis/ Mega Drive only (for now).

So saying people pay to play online not to play N64 games is…well… you know…

@Kreko
50hz hasn't been standard in well over a decade, the same goes for things like region locking and a bunch of other problems associated with PAL gaming back then, and for many TVs 60hz wasn't really an option.

like with the issues regarding performance issues (sub 30fps) regarding switch ports of games, its fine if you don't mind playing the games like that, just don't dismiss the criticisms of those that do (calling people "cry-babies" etc)

@CharlieGirl that is true for the NES and SNES games.

But N64 games require a paid expansion above the regular Switch Online...

It would be neat if they updated the PAL games to 60Hz but since they have no time for that, I guess it's more important to have German and French screentext for the European market.

@HalBailman
The fact the Europe N64 app is getting a mixture of PAL and NTSC N64 games (which the Wii U also did), it's most likely due to the language options. Mario Kart 64's PAL version only had English, so it makes sense to use the NTSC version. Yoshi Story's PAL version supports English, French, and German. So that version is used because there are more langauge options.

@russell-marlow fortunately you don't have to pay another NSO account. You only have to just create a North American Nintendo Account. Then you can download the app, and then your good.

@CharlieGirl But the classic games are the main feature in this case - the extra charge is specifically for these games and nothing else.

@RadioShadow That would explain such a decision. Thanks for the information. I never considered that.

Man serious, they keep screwing things up lately.
Its almost as if they do it on purpose.

At this point, just buy the controllers and use them on a retropi. I know it's minor, I understand why they do it, but it just feels like corner cutting. The official experience should be the most proper, put together experience. Piracy should feel like a compromise, not the real thing.

this makes no sense geez... just make available NTSC versions for all my god...

I doubt the Switch can do 60hz N64 justice. 50hz will likely have a more consistent framerate

@falkyn Which is why the Steam Deck exists and it will have emulation supported, kiddo.

By that I also mean there already is an app on Steam for emulating games.

I wonder if price will be cut by 1/6 in Europe too? Since we're getting fewer frames it should be cheaper, no? Okay, not frames but they will run slower.
Compare Sonic the Hedgehog 2 EU vs PAL for instance.

@russell-marlow haha do what you'd like with your emulation geekery, but none of that steps foot inside Nintendo's house.

@CharlieGirl
You have to remember that the Expansion Pack that includes the N64 and Sega Genesis games is still its own paid thing and not a part of the online service. The NES and SNES games are a bonus of the online service but they might as well make the Expansion Pack games high-quality. :/

I don't really mind, probs not gonna buy it if it has any big problems like this, I have enough games already. Although Paper Mario is really tempting...

Hoping they have at least a reasonable price even if they actually make the games low-effort.

@falkyn I'm invited to Nintendo's actual house?

@russell-marlow no, emulation only gets you access to the other side of the fence where the weeds can grow since the gardeners have no jurisdiction to cut there.

If I recall correctly later European releases were optimized for 50hz (filling the extra scanlines etc) Language is likely the reasoning behind this, a lot of N64 games had French, German (sometimes Spanish and Italian?) language options.

While that would be fairly authentic, it would also be fairly inconvenient.

These can be played in multiplayer online, right? So are you region-restricted? How does it work if Player 1 is PAL and the rest are NTSC? Will everyone get the joy of playing in 50Hz?

Just created an US account. But when I downloaded the Super NES App it showed the purple buttons during download but then changed to the coloured ones of the europeean SNES! It‘s impossible to download it like the Super Famicon App 😱 Any ideas how to solve that? I tried that so I can download the american N64 games later in October…

@Bustacap I know....

@Bustacap actually it still is... when we deliver to TV station, 50 is the requested number anything outside of that all denied.

@Ventilator
NTSC = Never the same color.
But you it did have more fps!

@Scrubicius

NTSC = Never Twice the Same Color
PAL = Picture At Last

This is *****, Nintendo NEVER cared about Europe (Neither the fans) Seeing this happen AGAIN after 40 years, It's just straight up *****.

@RadioShadow as you mentioned in your above comment that "Mario Kart 64 in NTSC isn't much better when it comes to speed" now I am buying a control for my mario tennis, I have read many reviews on tennis rackets but they didn't mention anything about the speed of Rackets connectivity.
After reading a review I thought of buying one of them, but now read your comment and want to know more about them, if you have any suggestions then what would you suggest?
https://gotennisracquets.com/best-nintendo-switch-tennis-rackets/

@swissman
It could be that the SNES App is the same for USA and Europe (the games are the same, so this isn't an issue). I suspect it checks the Switch's region (which can be changed) and loads the required icon based on that.

In theory, the Euro N64 App will be treated as a separate app, so you could have a Japan, USA, and Euro one.