One of the consequences of Nintendo Switch consoles making their way into the backdrops of official Xbox videos is that it gets people talking. Xbox boss Phil Spencer has already triggered plenty of speculation by having a Switch (alongside many other items) on his office shelf, and, more recently, fellow Xbox exec Sarah Bond proudly had her Switch console on display.
All of this has led to Mat Piscatella – former Warner Bros and Activision executive and current Executive Director & Video Game Industry Advisor for The NPD Group – to rightly muse that Microsoft putting its Xbox Cloud streaming service on Switch would make a massive amount of commercial sense for all involved.
While Piscatella admits that "none of this means that Xbox Cloud will actually ever make it to Switch... there is a list of reasons why it wouldn't" he then adds that "Nintendo would get a massive content gain and sell millions of incremental Switch [consoles], [and] Xbox Cloud would be in front of millions of new potential subscribers."
He's certainly onto something, and there have been rumblings that Microsoft and Nintendo's warm relationship could potentially be building to a point where for former's game streaming platform does indeed come to the Switch. However, industry analyst David Gibson responded to Piscatella's tweet with some bad news:
Given Gibson's good standing in the industry and his range of contacts, it's highly likely that whoever he has spoken to at Nintendo is to be believed. Although Xbox Cloud on Switch would indeed result in an uptick in hardware sales, as Piscatella suggests, Nintendo would perhaps worry that those new buyers would use it purely to access Microsoft's streaming service and wouldn't buy other Switch titles.
Let us know your thoughts on this topic by posting a comment below.
[source twitter.com]
Comments 105
Another rumor for people to speculate on?
Meh. Streaming games doesn't interest me at all anyway.
Good. Hopefully means whatever announcement is coming is something I'll actually care about.
So master chief for smash?
Opportunity missed, cloud gaming opens some opportunities and doors for people who wouldn't be able to play game physically. It's a nice OPTION.
That said, I expected this, though Microsoft and Nintendo have been on good terms, I think.
I can certainly understand Nintendo's concern about that scenario. I don't think it would be the case. But I understand the hesistancy
A pity, it would be nice.
I said HELL NO to streaming games.
It wouldn't be a great deal for Nintendo, because many people would prefer to play games from the Xbox/Microsoft Cloud rather than buying them from the eShop. This could potentially mean less money for Nintendo.
I'm fine with it skipping the Switch, I don't really enjoy streaming games.
The portable aspect doesn't help either - play anywhere, anytime (if you have internet) doesn't sound as good.
Of course it won't happen.
Nintendo is all about videgames and relies on the strength of its own videogames series and them selling well.
Why on earth would they allow Microsoft cloud/Gamepass onto Switch to eat into Nintendo's own sales. Remember they get 30% of sales from third parties too.
Never happening.
@Anti-Matter OH NO ANTI SAID BAD WORD! HES GONNA GET BANNEDED!!!¡!!!!!!¡!¡¡¡¡1¡¡
@Whitestrider Exactly and half of the games wouldn't run properly on Switch so I don't know why people keep pushing this nonsense!
is this the same person that has been saying for the last 3 years switch pro coming next month lol
@Anguspuss he's bound to be right some time
Nintendo wouldn't take a step in the direction that would eventually render their whole business model obsolete, it seems.
Useless the Switch in the background means, Rare Replay is coming to the Switch, I’m not interested.
Would definitely be awesome as the service works very well despite some limitations, though I can't imagine a world where Nintendo would allow it on the switch.
I don't want any cloud gaming on Switch so I'd be happy if Xbox Cloud doesn't happen.
@Preposterous not to mention that it would be detrimental for developers in eShop. Yeah, u could still buy stuff, who would have time to play more.
I'd prefer native games get ported, even with downgrades. Or, maybe have Microsoft help nintendo with their online for their next console. I'd re-buy Gears 5 and Halo MCC even downgraded if I could play them natively on Switch.
@Snatcher unless if Halo Master Chief Collection comes to switch, I don't see it happening
If you can’t get Netflix or Prime to stream on the Switch I highly doubt you’ll get Xcloud on it
@HotGoomba I would be fine with cloud gaming anyway.
Especially with the problems with Xbox's DRM and Playstation's CMOS "C-Bomb" issue as well happening
How come some high up responsible for monthly software numbers not twig software is the golden goose not hardware. Hence gamepass being a thing. Hardly a shock that high profile Americans in the industry think it a missed opportunity that a high profile American company can't get in on the Switch lol. How do they think?
They will probably be working a new game or something.
1. A new banjo kazzoie?
2. Mario X Halo
3. Improving NSO
4. Rare Replay
5. MCC on NS (unlikely)
6. Master Chief or Doom Slayer in smash (unlikely)
Is anyone honestly surprised by this? There is no way Nintendo will allow Gamepass, Xcloud or any other similar service on their platform. That would just be unnecessary competition.
Would make a lot of sense @MatPiscatella , but I have had @Nintendo tell me directly they would not put other streaming services on the Switch. Lost opportunity......
Nintendo are liars since we already seen hints of cloud service on Switch such as Phantasy Star Online 2: Cloud Edition, Resident Evil 7: Cloud Edition, Hulu, Contact, Hitman 3, and that one Assassin's Creed game. Nintendo would definitely allow XCloud to work on Switch, the only drawback is that will that take away people from using Nintendo's own online service on Switch or will Nintendo implement XCloud as part of their Switch Online service as well? That is why Nintendo hasn't allow XCloud for Switch yet not to mention XCloud is still in beta anyways so no reason for Nintendo to quickly jump on the bandwagon that soon.
@Ghost_of_Hasashi
Those are individual games priced individually and not streaming services so Nintendo have not lied about that.
Also the tweet is clearly about game streaming services not the likes of Hulu.
@TheFullAndy They are individual games and streaming at the same time. They are just not tie to any service but my point is that Nintendo will allow this if the deal is right and right now XCloud doesn't seem like it would benefit them more so than Microsoft.
@Ghost_of_Hasashi
So you accept they aren't services and therefore Nintendo weren't lying?
Xcloud will never be right for Nintendo for reasons I have already mentioned in my first comment above.
Never happening.
Then just what about streaming from the xbox to the switch?
Like the Wii U gamepad?
Good, now people can stop with the 'Game Pass is coming to Switch' rumours.
Truth is, that having xbox cloud (gamepass) on switch, would complicate things for Ninty.
Why would anyone buy children of morta for example, when he could play it on xbox cloud?
It would mean loss of money for ninty. But i would love to have it anyway.
Streaming games is poor
I'd love to see it but agree with this comment. If I were making that business decision on Nintendo's behalf, I would wait until the industry forces this Netflix style and cloud style gaming to become mainstream. Right now Nintendo is making so much money off its software sales, I don't see a reason to jeopardize anything there until they need to. This could be more of an option in the upcoming couple years when Xbox game pass continues to grow and cloud gaming becomes more accepted mainstream.
But hey, I hope I'm wrong.
Nintendo told an industry analyst they wouldn't allow such a thing? Well then close up shop, that's all we need to know, no way this will ever happen, as clearly Nintendo would never try to hide such a big reveal move from the analysts, this wouldn't be the kind of news that they'd want to reveal on their own terms or anything like that. Heavy /s if not obvious there.
By no means am I saying it is happening, but if it were or it weren't happening regardless, I'd expect Nintendo would still tell such curious analysts it will never happen.
Is this the same Nintendo that has sad they would never do free-to-start games or DLC b/c they are bad? B/c we all know how that turned out.
Not saying Switch will get Xcloud but anyone who has been following Nintendo for more than 5 years knows there's a chance that anything they say isn't happening might, and things they say will happen may not.
I do expect more MS games and IP on Switch though, something is coming. Rare's 30 for $30 would be nice.
The big Duh! Also streaming is not ready for prime time.
Two years ago I said MS would release xCloud versions of their games. I still see a future where streaming versions of their games are available to purchase on Switch using xCloud as the backbone. I can only hope that they switch to Xbox Series X hardware for that because the speed improvements are significant.
@kostasfil simple answer is to work out a deal with Microsoft where the version of GamePass on Switch can't contain any games already available on the Switch. Of course, all those games will be third party as it is, so how much Nintendo truly would care about the crossover of same titles between the 2 would come down to how much they make from third party titles sold on their system, which I'm sure is something, but also far from where the bulk of their profits come from.
@Danrenfroe2016 Xcloud is genuinely pretty solid. Shame Stadia has given modern cloud gaming such a bad rap, because Microoft is definitely on the right track with what they're doing in the medium.
@rjejr
Difference is Free to Start games and DLC benefit Nintendo.
Gamepass/Xcloud on Nintendo platforms will not benefit Nintendo.
It isn’t on PlayStation either. shrugs not that big of a deal.
@TheFullAndy not if a deal were worked out where Nintendo would see a portion of the monthly subscription fees from Microsoft for putting the service on their system and reaching an even larger audience, done right, there could be great synergy here for both companies to make even more money.
Good news! Glad to hear that they won’t do it lol.
@duffmmann
The logisitcs of that would simply be too complicated with too many variables to happen.
@TheFullAndy I really don't think so. When there is an opportunity to make money, such logistics can definitely be worked out. To ignore the opportunity because it's "too complicated" would just be incredibly foolish from a business standpoint.
@duffmmann Stadia has a bad rep but the best technology by far at the moment which is rather unfortunate. Xcloud barely works for me and the image quality has been unplayable but Stadia runs pretty much flawlessly and at a much higher graphics quality. Looking forward to when Xcloud is upgraded to the Series level systems and hopefully reaches the Stadia level of tech in the future. I much prefer the game pass model for streaming games personally.
@WillQuan wow you've had literally like the opposite experience of myself (and many others from what I've seen online). I'm sure in some situations and locations such as what you've found for yourself, Stadia may work better, but in general Xcloud kicks Stadia's ass.
@Wilforce The xCloud server upgrade from XB1S to Series X has already been announced to be happening sometime this year.
@duffmmann
Xcloud/Gamepass would eat into Nintendo's own game sales. Why would people pay the prices for third party games, or even Nintendo's own games, on Switch it they have access to a large library of games for 15 quid a month (or whatever it is).
So Nintendo would be losing out on money from their own games sales and the 30% cut from a lot of potential third party game sales on the eshop.
I don't think even a 50% cut of the subscription fee for Gamepass/Xcloud would cover the potential losses.
Never happening.
@TheFullAndy I already addressed this earlier in these comments:
The simple answer is to work out a deal with Microsoft where the version of GamePass on Switch can't contain any games already available on the Switch.
As to why anyone would continue to buy Nintendo games on a Nintendo system? Really? Do I really need to address that?
We'll see is my opinion. Seems totally feasible and if handled right could lead to more profits for both companies.
@Gravitron so is my lotto numbers but im 50 next year time is running out
@duffmmann
Removing third party games already on eshop is not really going to fly as then the value of Gamepass/Xcloud goes down so doesn't benefit Microsoft.
Also the point I am raising is if people have access to a large library of games for a set amount each month then they don't need to purcahse any other games, yes Nintendo games included, so Nintendo loses out.
Also if you are playing online games on Xcloud/Gamepass do you need a Xbox Live Gold subscription or the Nintendo Switch online subscription?
Too many variables, too much potential for loss in sales for games on the eshop, never gonna happen.
@duffmmann depends by what you mean in general, if speaking about value for money and in my opinion better games, I'd say Xcloud has it but in terms of tech it's really not. Stadia actually streams at 4k (some games native, some upscaled from 1080p+) whereas Xcloud is streaming from base xbox ones at 720p max, so you are getting lower quality graphics, framerates and resolutions. Stadia also runs across way more devices but that is changing soon for Xcloud. As I say I think overall Xcloud will be the better option in a year or so but tech wise, it is factually speaking a step behind.
@TheFullAndy lol I love how you seem so sure you understand how this all works. We'll see is my continued stance here, you keep trying to excuse away how it can't work out without entertaining that things could be altered specifically for the platform, including games selection, price, and more.
Again, when there is money to be made, logistics can be worked out in a way that is satisfying to all parties, including the consumer.
Thanks for that captain obvious!
@duffmmann
But I am actually explaining my reasons you are just saying things can change that will magically make Nintendo and Microsft money if they make a deal.
Tell you what if it happens, you can gloat about it.
@TheFullAndy but I'm not even saying it will happen, I'm just saying I can absolutely see how it could still happen. At this point, all that needs to be said is reiterating my last point in that last post:
Again, when there is money to be made, logistics can be worked out in a way that is satisfying to all parties, including the consumer.
@duffmmann
And I am saying more money can be made by Nintendo by not allowing it to happen for reasons already set out.
I also find it sweet that you think either company would care about the consumer being satisfied!
What will be will be.
Xcloud just seemed to good to be true. I think it'd more like Microsoft allowing some of their titles on Switch. I'm betting on stuff like Masterchief Collection and Rare Replay and then they'll top it off with Masterchief in Smash as an E3 reveal.
@TheFullAndy ugh, I mention the consumer's satisfaction because they may scale price appropriately if the game selection were significantly smaller than on Game Pass on other devices. Maybe they wouldn't even call it Game Pass at that point in the Switch and instead something like Xbox on the Go or whatever lol.
Or hell, maybe it'd just be an xCloud app where you can browse 1st party Xbox games and buy them in cloud versions individually for the Switch. It's not like the Switch doesn't already sell cloud only games individually. Point is there are many ways this could happen without being the logistical nightmare some of you are so sure it would have to be.
Why on earth would Nintendo allow Xbox games on switch when they are not even willing to add so many of their own Nintendo games?
@Moistnado *cough Cuphead, Ori, Super Lucky's Tales, Minecraft *cough
I guess I am the only one that’s not keen on more Microsoft stuff coming to the switch. But seriously I am fine that no Xbox streaming services are coming to the switch. Let Nintendo do their own thing and make it better hopefully. Microsoft is trying to take over everything and it wants to appease Nintendo to beak in more into the Japanese market lol. I do agree with the statement that if the Xbox streaming service does come to switch some people will just play only Xbox games and not any switch games which is not ideal for Nintendo. Also I hate streaming games. I think companies are trying to force it down our throats rather then make it an option in the future. I like Nintendo to be Nintendo and Xbox can do its own thing. Maybe I just see more bad than good. Lol. Just my opinion.
I never believed the XCloud on Switch rumors.
Nintendo already has somewhat of an informal partnership with Ubitus to handle the backend of cloud versions of Switch games. The cloud versions of REVII, AssCreed Odyssey, Control, and Hitman 3 are all provided by Ubitus, and I'm sure more Ubitus-based cloud games are coming to Switch - there is no need for Microsoft's direct involvement.
This supposed upcoming Nintendo X Microsoft collab will probably be Halo on Switch.
@westman98 but if Microsoft sold Xcloud versions of only their first party xbox games on the Switch, then I don't see how that would be a conflict of interests with what Nintendo have been doing with third party cloud games with Ubitus.
@Riku3456 You aren't the only one mate Microsoft are an evil company.
@duffmmann
Has there been any suggestion that Microsoft is willing to create some hypothetical, specialized version of XCloud that only contains 1st party Xbox games for Switch (or any non-Xbox platform for that matter)?
David Gibson is clearly talking about existing streaming services.
I find it hard to believe that this random "analyst" would be told "directly by nintendo".
There's really no reason for Nintendo to reject it. There are plenty of games that would not come directly to switch, so they're not missing out on anything in that regard. And plenty of people prefer to buy games directly instead of streaming, so that's not even a concern.
Nintendo has already allowed Hitman 3 and Control to be streaming. This is really just the next step.
@westman98 you act like selling individual xcloud games isn't feasible on another device. Shouldn't be much harder to do than selling individual Ubitus cloud games on the system.
No there is no word on this happening, there is no definitive word on any of this happening. It's all just speculation, and I'm speculating of the most logical realistic way we could see more Xbox games on Switch. People all cling to this idea that it has to be streaming game pass, but why couldn't it be individual larger 1st party games run by xcloud?
@duffmmann
Sure, if it was just 1st party Xbox games being sold individually as cloud-based titles (ala Control and Hitman 3), then those could probably happen on Switch.
David Gibson is referring specifically to the current XCloud service that is part of a Gamepass Ultimate subscription as a no-go on Switch.
I have a feeling Master Chief collections coming cuz it can definitely run on the switch at 30 FPS.
@Brummieendo90 thanks for saying that. I completely agree. Lol
Because it's bad for Nintendo's business.
Wow, did an industry analyst really need to be told that?
Xbox is doing their best to bring the service to every other screen that people already have anyways. They don't need to bring it to Switch.
Good. I wouldn't want it. If streaming games is the future then I am a cranky old man and prefer to live in the past. At least for this issue.
@westman98 yes I understand what he's talking about, I'm just saying gamepass or not, I don't see why (more) Xbox games coming to the Switch via xcloud streaming would be out of the question.
I've played Xcloud on my phone and let's just say it's not the greatest, you need atleast 100mbs to make it OK
@UltimateOtaku91 streaming is definitely something that only stands to get better with time. Take a look at 5G internet speeds right now, ranging from 40 to 1100 Mbps, but experts believe that in time they'll be able to get speeds up to 10,000 Mbps. Eventually, probably within a decade or so, streaming games will seem no different from natively playing them, as long as you've moved up in the internet speeds world as it continues to advance.
Is this the same guy who told you the Switch Pro would 100% be released in April 2020?
And May 2020
And June 2020
And July 2020
And August 2020
And September 2020
And November 2020
And like 4 different dates in December 2020
And January 2021
And February 2021
And March 2021
At some point don't you just accept that people outside Nintendo have NFC what Nintendo is doing?
@duffmmann
Except bandwidth is size, not speed. Ping is speed, and ping is what makes streaming games playable. In the 90s, playing Quake online over dial up, I could gets pings around 60-70. Today, playing DOTA over a fibre to the home gibibyte line I get pings ... of about 50-60.
Ping is like the speed of light, it's set by the fundamental physicals of current speed and resistance. It's not going up any time soon, not until we can transmit a signal from server to client as light 100% of the way (or find a conductor with 0 resistance), and even then the limiting factor will be how quickly we can encode / decode that signal, not bandwidth.
We're getting a lot better with software that basically messes with time by showing us the game offset by a few moments to mitigate ping, pack loss and lag, and that's what game streaming uses. But even that has fundamental, real, unmitigatable limits, and we are currently pretty much at them. That tech isn't getting any better.
He never said when this happened you know. They could've easily changed their minds by then
This could possibly given the Switch to the ability to function almost like a Wii U controller. I say "almost" because I think the Wii U controller had a camera and microphone. I guess the microphone feature could be added with an accessory that plugs into the headset jack, although I've heard that the Switch cannot actually accept sound input which would mean the technology in certain online games like Fortnite and DC Universe Online somehow magically changes that for the purpose of chatting while those games are running. 🤷♀️
Nintendo putting Nintendo games on Game Pass? Not a chance. Nintendo allowing third party games from Game Pass or other? It's hard to imagine them not, assuming MS is willing to listen to them and work with them on pricing model. Nintendo's already been playing with letting publishers stream on Switch, but the streaming has been scattered with small players without the scale to make it work well. Nintendo isn't going to subscribe out their software sales. But they clearly are interested in letting other publishers monetize on their hardware......so long as they're in for a healthy cut of the share. Switch is never going to have Hitman 3 run natively, but they let the publisher stream it. Switch is never going to run Halo natively, but if they could get a cut of Halo's revenue by letting MS stream it? There's not much of a loss in that for them, any more than selling Ori on the eShop. It doesn't seem impossible considering Nintendo already supports a streaming model on Switch with other companies, and MS isn't interested in selling hardware competitively against Sony or Nintendo, they just want to sell their games and services wherever they can like every other publisher.
Nintendo won't even release highly demanded Nintendo games on the Switch. How is anyone with a sane mind even speculating this? Like how is this even a discussion?
@Riku3456 How would they make it an option in the future if they never begin to lay the groundwork in the present?
@jbreez00 I was exaggerating it a little but the groundwork is already laid out now. Google stadia. It’s nothing but a subscription cloud based service. The only thing you need is a controller. There are other companies that are looking into cloud gaming only and essentially getting rid of physical games. Google definitely wants to get rid of physical games. Their mission is clear. Lol. But luckily they are not doing that well now.
And so, the mystery of the Switches at Microsoft's live streams was resolved.
I don’t think this has anything to do with Game Pass. I think it’s a lot more simple than that. Banjo Kazooie are in Smash and the amiibo just launched, I think there’s been ongoing conversation behind the scenes bw Nintendo and Microsoft about how to address the legacy and history of Rare and Nintendo moving forward. I think whatever this teasing is about is quite likely to do with Banjo games at the least, if not getting other Rare games on Switch.
@duffmmann I know they allow Microsoft games, they allow anyone to make a game for eshop now, but I'm talking about Xbox games, as in Xbox gamepass. The difference between getting a 30% cut for hosting a game on your platform and allowing someone else's subscription to take money off Nintendo's customer base. Nintendo intentionally starves customers of good games, they don't release their own games. This is so, the occasional good release can command a high price tag and generate hype. Why would they allow a competitor to destroy their sales ecosystem like this?
@HeadPirate
Nintendo themselves straight-up denied the Switch Pro was going to release in 2020. David Gibson never claimed the Switch Pro would release in 2020.
@Bizaster -so true.
If streaming is the future, I'm a Retro gamer from now on. If Nintendo place xcloud on switch, and the Xbox games actually work properly via streaming, this will kill the switch. Nobody will be willing to pay 60usd for skyward sword, when they are offered actual choices from a competitor. This isn't even a Trojan horse, it's just allowing your rival to eat your lunch.
@Anti-Matter someone has bad internet lol
I don't see why it would in the first place. Xbox Cloud is for the Xbox.
Nintendo gets their money from software sales. The eShop is their main way for developers to pay Nintendo to add their games onto the store. With a subscription service, that cuts down the potential number of games on the eShop, especially when it comes to losing the opportunity for expensive ports such as Doom Eternal.
I don't understand why people outright hate the idea of xcloud on switch. I understand not being interested, but what's the harm in more options? I promise your family won't die if you stream halo on a Nintendo console.
I don't really care, I'd like them to do it but i don't expect Nintendo to do clever things lol, I get enough gaming enjoyment outside of Nintendo too, so I'm really not bothered what Nintendo does. Or doesn't do.
Don't put GamePass/Xcloud on the Switch? No worries i have GamePass & Xcloud on other devices so its not my loss.
No VC? that's fine because roms and emulators still exist and Nintendo can never really do anything about it.
No voice chat? Discord exists.
Terrible multiplayer games? No worries because there's better options elsewhere.
Adding additional benefits to their hardware should be something they want to do, i have access to that stuff elsewhere so i honestly don't care either way.
Of course not.
Multimedia, modern techniques? Not on a Nintendo system.
Nintendo wants to go on making money with old games like Pacman.
I get the feeling once switch console sales drop in the US so will the xcloud announcement.
@TheFullAndy "Gamepass/Xcloud on Nintendo platforms will not benefit Nintendo."
Of course it will. MS will charge $15 per month and Nintendo will keep $5 of that $15. If 1million people sign up that's $5 million per month. That's a benefit with almost no effort, all profit. Every month.
Money is the benefit most companies are interested in.
@rjejr
Very simple way of looking at it. I have already set out my reasons why there is a lot of money for Nintendo to lose as a result in my comments above.
I don't see it ever happening.
Who cares what someone at Nintendo told him. Nintendo saying no is normal, even when they are working on stuff. They deny everything until they are ready to say otherwise.
Not saying xCloud is happening, but I don't take Nintendo saying no to some analyst as a fact.
Nintendo could have this lined up for tomorrow and would still say "no, absolutely not'.
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