In at the deep end
Contrary to how modern sequels tend to reintroduce players to familiar characters, movesets and worlds as if you're starting from zero, Banjo-Tooie hits the ground running with all the moves and abilities from the previous game available from the very beginning. Samus, eat your heart out.
"Yeah, there was definitely an assumption that just about everyone playing Tooie would have played Banjo-Kazooie," Malpass says. "I mean, why would anyone go straight to the second game in a series? Of course, today a sequel will usually try to stand on its own as much as it can, onboarding everyone as a new game." Tooie's approach is certainly a boon for veterans and a refreshing change from modern tutorials that force you to revise the basics, however clever they've gotten. "Players were reminded of the existing moves at the start but it would’ve been a lot to take in for someone with no muscle memory of the first. Gregg was always critical of games that rehashed the same old ideas without adding anything new so that was never going to happen with one of his."
Gregg used to say “you’re only as good as your last game” and that’s stuck with me over the years, even though everyone seems to have a duff project now and then
When it came to being thrown in at the deep end, Malpass relates on a professional level as the fresh-faced newbie in a design role. "Rare was two-to-a-room back then (it may still be), rather than open plan like most studios. Gregg had a room to himself so I sometimes wouldn’t see him for long stretches at a time. He’d give me a task and I would often sit for days, or even a week or two, just trying to think of stuff, then we’d reconvene whenever I had something. In hindsight, being given whatever time needed to be creative seems like a real luxury. So now I do roll my eyes whenever a producer asks how long it will take to design certain things. How long is a piece of string?"
Having moved into design from Quality Assurance, the young designer found himself in a position somewhere between amazement and anxiety which has stuck with him through the years.
"I also remember not being able to quite believe I was working on a game and at Rare of all places. It was a definite case of imposter syndrome. I half-expected to be rumbled and given the boot back to the day job I’d left to go there. Gregg used to say “you’re only as good as your last game” and that’s stuck with me over the years, even though everyone seems to have a duff project now and then. There’s a need to prove your worth every time, which has often been much-needed motivation. I’m just eternally grateful to be fortunate to be given a shot at a way into the industry at the best place and learn from the best people. But imposter syndrome never really goes away."
"The first world I had a go at designing proper, Grunty Industries, caused me a lot of headaches," Malpass remembers. "It was spread over several factory floors, so I had to think in terms of height as well as from above in 2D, and all on paper. I was determined that the location of things, like the lift shaft, had to be consistent from one floor to the next, even though they are separate sub-levels and not actually physically modelled together (nowadays you could quickly mock something like this up in Unity or Unreal). And as it was my first proper attempt at level design I was trying to push myself, really. In the end, even after Gregg changed some of it, I think it ended up being too complex for the game. A lot of players hate that level, though some really like it, strangely. Which is better than indifference, I suppose! Up to that point, all the world designs had just Gregg’s initials written in the corner of each page but that one had both his and mine, so that was a proud moment."
New tech, new worlds, new possibilities
Despite some new recruits and changes between games, many of the old faces carried over directly from the original Banjo team, which gave the project a leg up from the beginning and had a beneficial effect across the board, including on the tech side.
"The team size was relatively similar in size across both," says Sutherland, "but I think having the underlying codebase from the first game meant we had something of a head start, which allowed us to add more ideas and content in the second game (i.e. in the first game, quite some time was spent creating development tools, whereas in the second game we were able to start building right away)."
That's not to say that things were easy. "The codebase from the first game only supported one player so there was a bunch of time involved going through and trying to make everything multiplayer aware (for both splitting out Banjo and Kazooie as well as the multiplayer split screen gameplay)." Multiplayer was planned for the original game, but the team ran out of time to implement it.
Much as other Rare titles did at the time, Tooie really pushes the 64-bit hardware, which was several years old at that point and in the twilight of its life cycle, and the ambition of the game's open worlds had a detrimental effect on frame rate in several areas. The studio wanted to avoid limiting players by having the game require the system's peripheral Expansion Pak ("I remember there was much desire at Rare for Perfect Dark to ship without needing the Expansion Pak" Sutherland recalls). Therefore, unlike Donkey Kong 64 and Perfect Dark (and contrary to this writer's memory before starting work on this feature), Tooie runs on a vanilla N64 console without that extra 4MB of RAM. "I know the team took great pride in that fact," recalls Malpass.
For E3 we had to have [the intro cutscene] in and working and I can remember that Will and I stayed up until gone 6 in the morning running and rerunning the intro trying to get it to not go out of time.
Banjo-Tooie represents various significant technical advancements over the first game. "A lot of it is due to us refining tech or systems that were more basic in the first game. For example in the first game we had a system (written by Paul Machacek) that dynamically loaded information into RAM as the player looked around the level, and that's the kind of thing I think we'd have enhanced for the second game."
While certain tools weren't as easy to use as they are these days, some things were modified for the better on the sequel. "The editor we had for making the cutscenes improved," says Ed Bryan. "It was made a bit more user-friendly, which for me as the poor sod who had to put them all together was nice. The 10-minute(!) intro at the start of BT took some work, certainly to keep it running properly. You had to attach characters to splines edited down on the background then move them into place at the right time whilst triggering the right animation. The frame rate could interfere with the timing of things. Tools have moved on a lot since then! For E3 we had to have it in and working and I can remember that Will and I stayed up until gone 6 in the morning running and rerunning the intro trying to get it to not go out of time. We got there in the end."
The team's multi-disciplined 'get stuck in' approach led to Bryan taking on level creation duties, too. "I did the mine level, which after my efforts with Gobi's Valley [from Banjo-Kazooie], I shouldn't have been allowed to do. In fact, I think I started on the mine as soon as BK was done, over the summer of '98. I've always been more of a character kind of person, but somehow end up doing a bit of level stuff. After the mine, I was able to avoid a level until Viva Piñata 2."
The sheer scope of the new worlds was a bugbear for the team. "Getting that level loading stuff working was tricky. All the levels were so big," Bryan continues. "I can remember a lot of effort going into finding a way to essentially stream level data as you moved about; Jolly Rogers Lagoon is a good example. The tunnels under the water were long enough, if I remember right, so there was time to fetch the next bit of level off the cartridge."
I often get the blame for that but all I did was recreate Gregg's original drawing in 3D... I do genuinely believe it was entirely accidental that it ended up looking like it did!!
"Cloud Cuckooland didn’t actually fit in memory if you flew far from it and then turned to look at it in its entirety," Malpass recalls, "so the far side of it had to be culled dynamically. But the Banjo engine was probably the most capable at Rare (each team wrote their own game engine at that time!) so they were able to make the game run in memory and at a mostly respectable frame rate without [the Expansion Pak]."
"We were pushing the hardware with the first game so it was difficult to get the same detail into bigger levels and get it to run at a consistently good frame rate," says Hurst. "I think some levels suffered more than others in that regard – Terrydactyland I think in particular was problematic because you could see large sections of the level at one time."
On the subject of Terrydactyland, there's a well-known and rather rude-looking land mass (when viewed from above) found outside Mumbo's skull. In an effort to find the culprit of this infamous terra firma, we gave Hurst an opportunity to 'fess up.
"Ah yes that 'structure' [smiles]. I often get the blame for that but all I did was recreate Gregg's original drawing in 3D (I'm sure I still have the original drawing around here somewhere to exonerate me from blame) – I do genuinely believe it was entirely accidental that it ended up looking like it did!!" We invite readers to examine Mayle's original world design below and come to their own conclusions...
Textures and tunes
Accidental phallic level geometry aside, increased texture sizes helped prevent the game's sprawling spaces from looking repetitive. "We used textures that were 64x64 pixels in size (ah those were the days!) rather than the standard 32x32 ones," says Hurst, "which meant that we could fit in more detail (at the cost of reduced colour resolution). We also used blending techniques quite a lot so that textures could be blended together and you could vary them across large surface areas to reduce the repetitive tiling effect."
Improvements and enhancements made to the original engine opened up new opportunities across the board, and Will Bryan (Ed's brother — another fraternal pair on the Banjo team) opened up some new audio avenues for Grant Kirkhope.
"I had double the amount of memory for Tooie as the cartridge was bigger," Kirkhope explains. "The biggest change for me was that Will Bryan managed to get two MIDI files to run together at the same time so I had double the amount of instruments available. This is most noticeable in Witchy World. You can run round the whole level and into all the separate zones without the music having to restart once, it just morphs into the new version."
With Tooie's fairytale tone being bleaker and more complex, that extra audio bandwidth enabled Kirkhope to reflect that shift and expand on what he'd achieved in the first game. The foreboding and melancholy Isle of Hags theme which accompanies your journey through the hub world—a personal favourite for this writer—is a moody successor to the original's Grunty's Lair theme and its memorable If you go down to the woods today-esque melody. "I think I was going for the same vibe as Gruntilda’s Lair for this one," Kirkhope tells us. "It’s the same 6/8 rhythm as Grunty’s Lair as I thought that could be the main linking factor."
Asked for a favourite track, Kirkhope has a hard time pinning one down. "I think it’d have to be Atlantis, I loved writing that one. I just think it really fitted that area well. Ask me on another day and I’ll probably say something else!" Banjo-Tooie is filled with audio that adds the same intangible texture to the worlds as its predecessor, but Atlantis stands out on this game's soundtrack as a gentler, more ambient theme than the rest; a piece which arguably hints at Kirkhope's direction with his future scores once he had fewer tech limitations to contend with.
Bombs and bugs
When asked about specific headaches throughout development, two features in particular are mentioned multiple times. The first is the increased scope and scale of the worlds. The second?
"Clockwork Kazooie bombs… we loved those in testing," recalls Price. "They were excellent for finding bugs and causing bugs too! Being smaller and being able to be fired to places the main characters couldn’t get was great for causing mischief."
During our QA phase there seemed to be a never ending stream of BKCKB bugs!... there were so many permutations of its use that I notice there are still plenty of cheats and glitches that people have discovered since then
"[They] turned out to be the source of a large number of bugs and sequence breaks," says Sutherland. "The bomb would be launched then the player would take motion control of it, whilst the launching character (BK) would remain idle. Because the BKCKB [Banjo-Kazooie Clockwork Kazooie Bomb] could be launched at any point determined by the player there were 'interesting' situations where the idling launching character could unexpectedly change state — i.e. they might have been attacked, fallen off a moving/disappearing platform, triggered a cutscene or started walking out a door. This was made even more likely as the BKCKB could collect items which again in turn might trigger a cutscene, and on top of that the bomb could travel through doorways to other levels/areas."
This new and fun little mechanic turned into something of a nightmare for the team. "During our QA phase there seemed to be a never ending stream of BKCKB bugs! Each time I squashed the root cause of one, someone in QA would come up with another one based on a unique sequence of events. Although we fixed the big issues raised in QA at the time, there were so many permutations of its use that I notice there are still plenty of cheats and glitches that people have discovered since then."
Tooie's complexity caused issues for animators, too. "Banjo’s new solo moves where he could take the backpack off [were tricky]," remembers Steve Mayles, and it took some creative workarounds to achieve the desired effect. "At a certain point in each animation, the main backpack is switched off and a new separate backpack appears in the same place that can then be animated as required."
"Oh, and I had an issue with parts of Lord Woo Fak Fak not animating." Mayles continues, referring to the oversized anglerfish residing in Davy Jones' locker, just one of many boss characters in the game. "After a couple of hours of double checking stuff and much head scratching, it turned out he had exceeded the maximum joint count. I didn’t even know we had a maximum joint count! Had to take some joints out, poor guy was never the same again!"
Characters and couplets
The sequel brought back not only the team, but also many of the characters players had met while exploring Grunty's lair, including bit players like pirate hippo Captain Blubber and Gobi the Camel, as well as the Jinjos and the best shaman in the whole first game, Mumbo Jumbo, who received a minor makeover for his sophomore appearence.
"That was him going from a rubbish model, to something a little better!" explains Ed Bryan, the character's creator. "He needed to look better for the second game, especially as you'd see all the way around him. And he had more animations and stuff. Why he was playable? That's what Gregg wanted!"
With Mumbo taking on a more active role, new cast member Humba Wumba took over his transformation duties. Tooie had plenty of new additions besides, with family members of existing characters making up much of the roster. We meet Grunty's sisters (besides the benevolent Brentilda from the first game, that is), as well as dearly departed Bottles' wife and kids, not to mention his brother, Sergeant Jamjars (who doles out the new moves this time round). "I made an animation of Jamjars where instead of going back into his hole, the lid closes and he hits the lid instead," says Steve Mayles. "It doesn’t happen very often. Anyway, I was watching a speed run at AGDQ one time and looked on in amusement as Jamjars did indeed hit his head and the commentator moaned about the runner losing several seconds due to this alternate animation. A real proud moment for me, costing that speedrunner a few seconds!"
Mayles has affection for the lowliest of cast members ("I have a soft spot for the Gruntling with the wrench in Grunty Industries. He had great sound fx too! 'Aieeeeee!'"), but bosses were another addition to the sequel mix that he enjoyed working on. "Bosses are fun as you know they are going to be huge on screen so you can use more textures, more joints, and really go to town with the animations. So Mr Patch, Lord Woo Fak Fak and Weldar would be favourites."
"Weldar turned out to be one of the best of all the Banjo bosses," agrees Gregg, "but the first design was perceived to be so poor by [Steve Malpass] that he didn’t want to show me. But we worked on it a bit and I think it ended up great!"
"The characters are the heart and soul of the Banjo games, being where the humour and charm comes from," says Malpass. "I love most of them but faves are probably Mumbo, Klungo, Gobi, etc. Many of the minor characters were really comical if they had particularly amusing animations or lines. I’m also very fond of Weldar, because he started out as a discarded sketch of a welding torch enemy and ended up being a boss."
As with the first game, the assembled crew of characters—from bit-players to bosses—are perhaps best remembered for their humour. "[We were] writing what we thought was hilarious dialog," says Malpass. "I mostly wrote placeholder lines but Gregg left in whatever he found amusing." The humour and double entendre of Banjo-Kazooie may have returned in force, but there was one beloved element of the first game which was quickly nipped in the bud.
"This was another of our attempts to surprise people," Gregg Mayles says about the absence of Grunty's trademark rhyming couplets in the sequel. "I quite liked writing Grunty’s rhymes, but I thought it would be funny if she simply stopped when asked to do so, despite talking like that for the entire first game. In hindsight, I don’t think this was one of my better ideas and probably should have continued the rhyming. But if you don’t try different things you never know!"
Comments 44
And then one of my beloved franchises got bought by Microsoft and the franchise went completely downhill
One of my all time fav's!
As a huge fan of the first one, I find it incredibly bizarre that I've never played this game, I have no idea what it's like, and I've never even seen footage lol. I remember there being zero hype and very little marketing, and it was just there on the shelf at Hastings one day. Its a white whale game for for me for sure
Why Nintendo didn't just say yes to buying them and turning them into a second party developer will always perplex me given the legacy of those games on SNES/N64
Bash Microsoft all you want but they were literally just stepping in to answer to Rare's pleas for an acquisition when Nintendo turned them down. I don't even think they had a factor in how Nuts & Bolts became Nuts & Bolts
@AndyC_MK Honestly Rare during the XB1 era whether they were licensing out IPs or making original stuff are considerably better than during the 360 era, and that Everwild game looks visually interesting
I wouldn't say they've declined but they did have a meager output for some time but they seem to be back on track in general.
And also Capcom is doing fine? They had a small dark period in the early 2010s but they've been really excelling considerably since Resi VII. They're far from doing badly
Imagine being a company that owns an IP as strong as this one and doing virtually nothing with it for over 15 years. Why did Microsoft even buy Rare? Sea of Thieves has it's pros but you can't tell me a studio as large as Rare has nothing else to show the last several years.
I’m going to play through this again soon. On Xbox one though........ wish it or rare replay was on switch 😫
"So with that extra level design complexity also came a slightly more grown-up story, even though it was still intended to be funny and appeal to all ages."
face slap
Complete tonal change away from what made nonsense (but whimsical and fun nonsense, it is magic after all) in the first game. You can't possibly take a serious tone with a pair of furballs with no better sense than to live next to a witch's lair with a giant carved head for an entrance. Conker could because it parodied all kinds of things and went for the Ren and Stimpy approach elsewhere.
I will play and replay Banjo-Kazooie for a very long time.
I have gotten as far as the first FPS segment in Tooie before becoming bored with the game and fed-up with the tone.
It's pretty rare to see developers discuss a 20-year-old game, but I'm not complaining, this is so cool
@AndyC_MK84 I know you asked the other guy, but I gave Yooka-Laylee a shot.
Gotta say it does retain that classic banjo feel, the humor is pretty good as well.
Haven't gotten far into it though but thats mostly adulting to blame.
Will Banjo-Tooie ever be released on Nintendo Switch during my lifetime? That's all I would wish for a 20-year birthday...
@AndyC_MK84 aye dude I know what you mean. I also got a huge list of games I haven't been able to play yet.
Once I eventually finish Yooka Laylee I'll get into Impossible Lair.
Just rebought this game on my Xbox 360 (yes, I still buy games on that workhorse). This inspires me to fire it up. Been several years since I’ve played Banjo-Tooie.
@AndyC_MK84 Backed it, got wary at the minecart, the plot came from the wrong place and didn't have the right spirit, and so I asked for a refund.
I've heard it's mediocre when compared to Banjo-Kazooie, but it might still be serviceable in the same way that Super Lucky's Tale is.
Still the most enjoyable 3D platformer I have ever played, such great characters and you could tell that Rare had a lot of fun making it, it really showed! What a gem of a game, such a shame we never got a proper third entry, a travesty really.
@AndyC_MK84 hey man, just thought I’d jump in too. As a HUGE fan of BK, I was so excited for YL and played it to 100% completion.
It certainly had the feel of a Banjo game but perhaps a little too much - often it felt like a game trying desperately to recreate those memories and ended up not really having a personality of its own. It also wasn’t helped by the assumedly smaller budget as the polish was for sure missing: bugs, large empty worlds and repetitive design, all once again making it feel like a team trying their best to recreate a beautiful series under more limitations.
All that said, however, the hours did fly by while I played it. I’m a sucker for a good 3D platformer and I had a good time playing this. It has a whole suite of issues and sometimes comes off as safe and somewhat pandering but hey, it’s a bunch of talented guys making a game and that talent does shine through quite often.
In short, I’d probably recommend giving it a go, just don’t expect it to light your world on fire and, if you’re a fan of Rare’s old output, you should have a good time
One of those games that, as a proud N64 owner, I inexplicably passed up on. Along with, uh, Mario 64.
Thanks to All-Stars, I rectified that last oversight. But Banjo's still pending.
@AndyC_MK84 Sea of Thieves has at least been improved year-by-year. It's a great game. Definitely different from previous Rare output. I'm with you though.
Will get around to this when I get my Series X (eventually). Loved Nuts and Bolts but never had the first 2. Strangely enough played the 2 GBA games as well.
@AndyC_MK84 Killer Instinct 2013 is lauded as one of the best (if not THE best) fighters of this past generation though. It may get another on Series X.
As for Rare not being as prolific I think that is incredibly harsh, games take far longer and much more manpower to make these days so naturally they aren't going to make as much. What they have is fantastic by all counts.
I may be very alone in this but I think the Microsoft buyout has worked out well. Kameo, PDZ, Banjo 3 and Viva Pinata was out of left field but oh so good. Not had a chance to play the last gen output from them but I will be putting that right in the future (not Kinect though, just no).
I read an interview with Phil Spencer where he said he leaves it in effect up to developers to make what they want, seems Rare doesn't really want to jump back into what they used to make which is fair enough, most of their beloved games were fresh new ideas.
I’d kill for the Rare Replay Collection on the Switch. C’mon MS! C’mon Nintendo- put aside your differences and give us what we want!
@Arkay is your icon from a computer monitor in Goldeneye 64? I remember that gif vividly.
And just like Mario and Sonic on their anniversaries, don't expect anything big like an entirely new game.
Banjo and Kazooie are my favourite video game characters.
PLEASE STOP DOING THIS TO ME! I keep on thinking this is going to be the article that leads on to them being released on switch
The most impressive adventure/3d collect-a-thon game of all time to me
@0blivion yes it is! You're the 2nd person that recognized it so far . : P
@Arkay I’m very impressed you’d use such an obscure image. Kudos.
I feel like this series is more obscure than people realize
Probably the best true collectathon platformer ever made. Love this game.
Please give us a new Banjo game for switch or even a Remaster.
@ArmenianJedi13 well it’s hugely famous within the industry but yeah 20 years since their last ‘proper’ game, so a whole generation of gamers will have missed out on the franchise.
What a coincidence, I just completed this game yesterday for the very first time after 20 years of trying. Although I had to use honeyback cheat (Earned cheat) on Hag 1. Did everything else 75 jiggies up that point without any cheats on.
Always excited to read how a beloved series was made
Seriously though i hated Banjo-tooie back then and to this day i still hate it. Didn't like any of the levels. So forgettable compared to the iconic ones , of the first game.
Banjo-Kazooie is probably my favourite game of all-time, I try to replay it every once in a while but because I don't have an X-Box 360/one and my N64 is no longer connected I have to resort to emulation.
Unfortunately emulation is annoying as there are some graphical imperfections that are hard to resolve without it causing other issues...
However, as much as I love B-K I can't say the same about B-T. Even at the time of release I felt it was too big and it made game more of a slog to 100%. I replayed it to 100% recently and my thoughts haven't changed.
What makes B-K so great is that it's not filled with padding and backtracking, I once 100% completed it in 4,5 hours and I wasn't even speedrunning (because I hate that).
DK64 is the worst of the bunch though. I did enjoy my latest playthrough on Wii U to some extend but it feels like B-T/B-K with a DK skin and it lacks any of the charm of both.
@AndyC_MK84 I think that yeah to most their output hasn't been stellar, especially the Xbox One era or the Kinect works, I do think that 360 era produced some of their best work though.
And fair enough if you think their games haven't been as value for money, everyone has their own take on that and none are wrong.
Release Banjo Kazooie and Banjo Tooie on the Nintendo Switch!!!
Rare studios had all my top favorite games on the N64, especially Banjo and Donkey Kong 64. It's a shame Microsoft bought them out. My old Nintendo 64 broke ages ago. It freezes between 5 to 30min of continuous gameplay so I have to emulate Banjo to play it, fortunately, almost any old low-end computer can manage to emulate an N64 game as long as the CPU isn't too much older than 12 or 13 years.
That was a great lunchtime read! Thank you @dartmonkey
Huge fan of the BK series (and Rare!) — I think the BK games were the first games I reviewed when we launched a ‘retro’ review section on NintendoLife.
I’m currently on yet another playthrough of the series right now on my Xbox. Love all three games for what they bring — the first I think is flawless, and the other two are near flawless (this article makes me realise that by doing something different than a copy and paste sequel is refreshing - Rare trying to innovate and evolve is so important). After just going into Mario 64 it cements my view that BK was the best platformer on the 64). 22 years on and I am just loving the original and have completed it well into the double digits.
I actually got my fingers tattooed the other day with a feather, jiggy, note and honeycomb in homage to these amazing games.
@Nanaki Glad you enjoyed it!
@AJDarkstar Typos? Let me know where and I'll zap them.
Never liked Banjo-Tooie. Even if i completed it back then i can't recall any of the levels . The only thing i remember was that each stage was huge and mostly empty. Compared to the first game were every stage was so iconic i think Banjo-Tooie was just bland
I hope they release Banjo Kazooie and Banjo Tooie on the Switch!
Not my favourite game...by the time I had finished it, I was sick of it
Personally I'd love to see Nuts and Bolts released on Switch. I've never understood why that one didn't eclipse the first two....definitely my fav, spent hundreds of hours discovering the secrets of that game.
Banjo-Tooie is such an underrated game. It's way better than Banjo-Kazooie.
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