Last week, Nintendo revealed it would be pulling the plug on the online services in the original Super Mario Maker for Wii U.
After 31st March 2021, it will no longer be possible to upload courses but it will still be possible to play courses that were uploaded before the service discontinuation.
While you would think most fans of the game would have moved on to the sequel by now, there is one player by the name of Braden “ChainChompBraden” Moor who is still attempting to complete a single run of their own insanely hard course, so they can upload it to the game's servers before they shut down next March.
This same individual has already spent "3,353 hours" over more than four years trying to beat their level, Trials of Death:
Here's what Moor had to say to VICE since Nintendo announced it would be shutting down the game's servers last week:
"Some people saw it [Mario Maker 2] as a deadline since inevitably a large portion of the community would be moving on. The project was always intended as a personal challenge, but this was the turning point where I fully realized that. And while the bulk of the community did eventually leave the game behind, all the support surrounding me remained"
"People are once again definitely pulling for me to try and get this thing up before uploading is no longer an option, but if it doesn't happen in time for that, the true end goal of me clearing the level is still going to happen. Not too many people were ever lining up to play the level for themselves. They all just want to see the clear happen, and that's still going to be delivered whether it's on the servers or not."
If Moor doesn't beat the March 31st deadline, as noted above - the aim is to still clear the course. After that, a "full overview" of Trials of Death will be released for anyone wanting to recreate it.
[source vice.com]
Comments 117
Considering how he has spent over 3,000 hours on this he could have just reproduced the course for Mario Maker 2.
Lol. I like that.
It took me 3,000 hours for me to realize that I hate the New Super Mario Bros Series (or at least 2 and U. Luigi, OG, and Wii are fine.)
@JayJ Yeah. I guess that has some purist reason behind it.
@Yanina @JayJ There’s a lot of stuff that Nintendo patched out of 2 that’s prolly in this level. Like picking up objects while spin jumping and some of the glitches. It would have to be dramatically different I assume if he tried to remake it.
I know that grind, with 3,000 hours in each Dark Souls game from speed runs. Good times lol
I can’t imagine grinding ONE level for that long though. I’d go hollow.
@Blooper987 Ah that makes a lot of sense.
@Blooper987 Yeah looking at a video he posted of it almost 4 years ago it's just ridiculous.
https://youtu.be/-JeVd7UugrU
Apparently the version he is working on right now is much harder.
@JayJ yeah can confirm that a lot of things possible in SMM aren’t possible in SMM2 due to various tech being removed for the sequel or passed out. It doesn’t affect most “regular” levels but insane kaizo tends to exploit all sorts of obscure tech. Heck, even simple thing like a few frames different timing on a shell jump can make it unbeatable.
Have to admire the grind. Everyone has their own goals!
I have this game on the 3DS. I redownload it yesterday along with many “indie” levels to play later.
BTW I’m having trouble loading comments anyone else having the same issues??
Edit: Ok the issues are gone I can read comments now. Thanks.
This guy is a danger to himself if he can be that compulsive about something so insignificant (and almost no-one else will be able to download or complete it anyway, so what's the point?).
Imagine wasting thousands of hours of your life on something like this for Nintendo to go, "haha, nope" and pull the plug on the servers before he can even reach the goal that he has set for himself.
Sometimes the futility of this hobby dawns on me, but this is truly something else.
@Silly_G I never thought of it that way but what you’re saying makes perfect sense. How about spreading all that talent on making multiple different levels rather then 1 level. It would be better right?? I don’t know just a thought.
@MarcusIsCool : I hope for his sake that he doesn't achieve his goal so that his ambition is put into perspective, and hopefully free him from that compulsion so that he can channel his energy into other things. He says he wants to fulfill that goal even if the servers are turned off, but after thousands of hours, how many more is that going to take?
I admire his commitment, and I have been compulsive in certain areas of my life too (which I have worked to free myself from) so I can understand his drive, but he'll live with regret later. Maybe he'll succeed and the playthrough will be a viral sensation, but glory is a fleeting mistress.
Life is so short and we already squander so much of however little we have of it. This story just makes me sad for him.
@Silly_G I certainly understand the OCD in all of this. I’m pretty sure I’ve had some. I know how to program in C++ so I got this “crazy” idea once of making a full fledged fighting game on my own.
The prototype is there. But what I did not realize is that it takes way more than “programming skills” to have it succeed. I worked on it for almost
4 years then promptly burned out.
Point being is life is relatively short. I would think it’s much better to be well rounded in life. But to each his own. If that makes him happy that makes him happy and I suppose he has good skills in MM.
I’m in my very late 30s now and I think life is very complicated, and as I’ve said if we become as well rounded as we can be, we’d be much happier. 🙂
@Silly_G The only reason you should feel sad for me is the fact that I constantly have to deal with narrow minded ignorant comments about me from people that choose to judge my entire life based off of a single thing they know about me.
I'm actually just a few days shy from this project being a full 5 years now, and if you spent just a brief moment thinking about it, you'd realize that works out to being not even 2 hours a day (of pursuing something I enjoy).
Although I have to wonder if you even read the article considering I very clearly mention that whether or not I complete this before the servers go down is completely irrelevant to me.
Thanks though. You encouraged me to create an account here.
I love gaming but Jesus H Christ dude, get a life
If it's not looking like he can clear it in time, he should just put a backdoor to take you from the start to the end. Then he could upload it, and people could try beating it without using the backdoor.
I need to buy part two I really want to play it.
Is it still worth it at this point
joining in on this conversation. 3,000 hours of playing one and the same level sounds incredible to me. I mean, I have pushed myself to play and complete a lot of games, and even when they stopped being fun i kept pushing thru just to have the satisfying feeling of being "done" with it. I know speedrunners spend a lot of time with a single game (the bloodborne speedrunner "heyZeusHeresToast" mentioned he spend over 6,000 hours playing the game) and i'm sure there are more insane numbers of other players platying other games. Minecraft, MMORPGs or LoL come to mind. But for the most part, those games give you liberty to play the games in different ways, let u set various goals, or you play PvP where oponent behaviour is varying and over time even evolving in what is meta. What i'm trying to point out is, that in the 3,000 hours of trying to clear the level, the inputs he had to pull off never changed. This is a task of perfecting a sequence of muscle memory. This is hard to compare to anything else. Maybe playing a song on the piano, but even then u would probably not only rely on playing the same song everytime, but trying to evolve your skills by varying songs and speeds. I don't wanna say that he wasted his time, because none other than himself should be judging what someone is doing with their time as long as they enjoy doing it. I just take it as a reminder to myself, that being stuck on a difficult task sometimes requires to take a step back and give up, use your energy on something new. Learning that failing at a task or that the completion is not worth the effort is an important life lesson. Admitting that a project was too big for your timeframe/skillset is not a shame.
@yayakon85 it’s complicated. I would say work activities depend where you are in life. Take for example playing the piano, which I took lessons in from 5-10 years old. Certainly I had certain “songs” I would play over and over again. Practice is the best medicine or something to that effect. Practice makes you better. Right?? So for starters you can play a song over and over and gain confidence. Then it’s about branching out. ( in my view at least).
Oh and @ChainChompBraden
I hope you have no hard feelings, it was just part of the conversation. Certainly I envy you, but that’s just because I want to be better in everything in life. Improve my skills etc. I apologize if anything said hurt you in the comments section. Good luck on your project. 🙂
That's some dedication, damn. I couldn't even begin to imagine putting this much time into a single stage. Heck I don't think I put this much time into a single game ever. Maybe Smash Bros with the earlier entries...
@ChainChompBraden : Disparaging people as "narrow minded" and "ignorant" because they don't share your opinion or appreciation for something sounds an awful lot like "narrow-mindedness" and "ignorance" to me. Would I have been more enlightened in your estimation had I been sheepishly sycophantic?
If you had read my comments with an open mind, rather than through the funnel of a perceived affront to your character, then perhaps you would have understood that I saw this as an opportunity to reflect upon my shortcomings and compulsions (and of those around us as we can be susceptible to being consumed by our distractions in this day and age, and consequently lose sight of the things that matter in this finite existence).
I like to see people succeed with their goals and ambitions, but I cannot in good conscience applaud this kind of compulsive behaviour any more than, for example, somebody who resets tens of thousands of times to capture a legitimate shiny legendary Pokémon, and I make no apologies for directing my praise elsewhere.
My sentiments in my previous comments extend to anybody who engages in countless hours of futile compulsive behaviour, so it wasn't personal (though I can understand why you had perceived my comments in such a fashion, but such is to be expected when you are the subject in a public forum).
Ultimately, it makes no difference what I say because people will do as they wish and my views are not an imposition on how anybody conducts their affairs, but if our differing perspectives and experiences can stimulate conversation and encourage an exploration and understanding of differing points of view, then we can all be richer for it.
@ChainChompBraden Sorry you have to deal with judgmental comments all the time, I can see how this is clearly just a passion for you and so long as it brings you happiness who is anyone to judge. Haters are gonna hate, don't let them get you down. I can admire how you are doing this for yourself out of your own passion for what you are doing, hope you manage to upload it!
@AndyC_MK84 It's actually been about 46,000 hours since the game was released. If he had spent one hour a day playing it since then that would be about 1,916 hours based upon that estimate. 3353 hours comes in at exactly 1 hour and 45 minutes a day. I think he's fine, most people put far more time than that into entertainment every day.
Oh look, now someone else is telling me it's unhealthy of me to.... have a hobby I enjoy putting a little bit of time towards most days. And let me just tell you, it's even been made unhealthier by the fact I've met so many supportive friends and built a community along the way! Truly horrible. Thanks for letting me know, as you guys all clearly know so much about my life based on this single article.
Nah, I'm out of here. Thanks for those of you that are able to see the bigger picture though.
@ChainChompBraden oof sorry about those comments man, i guess its just to give themselves a pat on the back over how wouldnt spend their time on something like that, not that they even care about it in the first place. i believe in you
@ChainChompBraden I wouldn't worry about if other people think it is unhealthy. Haters are gonna hate.
Mario Maker is quite creative and constantly challenging yourself is good for you. I think there are a lot more unhealthy things that you could spend your time doing.
I’m not sure precisely how many hours I’ve spent in total writing silly comments on this very website, but I’m sure it’s enough that I shouldn’t be throwing stones with ‘time-waster’ written on them.
@AndyC_MK84 I think he's fine, he isn't hurting anyone. Why is it such a big deal to you how he spends his free time?
@AndyC_MK84 idk man he seems pretty fine, got the friends, chilling in the community, and he doesnt give off the impression of feeling bad or worse for doing it.
you seem to speak more on how it would negatively affect someone, when this dude is living by just fine. he's not even fazed about the servers shutting down soon
The level seems to be extremely long. I saw what I assume was his most recent segmented run and stopped watching at 6:00 (video was like 14 minutes long). And while all parts of what I saw are beyond technically impressive, some are veeery dull to watch even just one time, so I can't imagine going through them for thousands of hours.
The level starts off with a Panga-like bang and I wish it were much shorter but a lot more consistently like that. But hey, it's his level, so whatever floats his boat. Hope he'll get the clear eventually.
@AndyC_MK84 yeah thats fair. its not how i would want to spend my time either, but at the same time i dont care enough to judge him on it. some hobbies can be niche or specific but if thats what he sees value in then sure go for it, it being an "odd" or "not normal" hobby isnt a point to make on it being a bad thing
if he's living just fine then thats good enough for me. its not like he's pushed people away and is losing his sanity cause of it. he seems like a chill guy
So basically, this guy is bad at level design.
Ahhh, misspent youth!
It sounds truly depressing to use a very large part of your life for so little with nothing to show for it. It's genuinely worrying and concerning. Happiness isn't the sole arbiter of whether someone is healthy or not. For example cocaine can make someone extremely happy yet extremely unhealthy. I hope he gets the funds or contacts for meds and psychological/psychiatric help he clearly needs to move beyond this. Part of illness can be not recognising that one is unwell. At times like that it can be genuinely helpful for others to give an external perspective and sincerely say hey dude you're not well please please get medical help for yourself because we want you to be well. That isn't being patronising, that's being a human being who cares about the wellbeing of fellow humans.
I wonder if he listens to audio books while he plays? Might be worth doing. It means he can be listening and learning and letting the muscle memory do the rest. But the game might require all his attention, so that may not work.
Imagine if the level was actually just unbeatable.
@MikeHiscoe that would be awful.
@Maxz Silly comments are the only way to stand out amongst all the crying that goes down in these comment sections.
I clicked on the article half expecting it to be Sligeach, but I was wrong.
Wow. Lots of negative comments here.
To the 'haters': I'd let the guy police himself. I'm sure he's got family and stuff that can give advice on things.
To the gamer guy: So long as you know what you're doing carry on. As I'm sure you're aware, speed runners often spend hundreds upon hundreds of hours on single levels. I love your dedication to something I'll never have the time to do.
Build your community, it could even become your job. Good luck mate.
@ChainChompBraden
Sounds great fun. Hope you can complete it in time.
I wouldn’t want to even guess how many hours I’ve put into WoW or Pokémon. And, total gaming in general I’d be measuring in years not hours at this point. 😅
@ChainChompBraden I too have just made an account (and am not planning to post here again), but I had to do this because I'm just pretty disgusted at some of the negative comments around here. Small, petty people. Worms.
I won't say any more about these parasites. Instead, I just wanted to say that I can't wait to show your video to my oldest son. He's 7, loves Mario, and especially loves Mario Maker 2. We play games together sometimes. I'm busy with work at the moment, but I will be seeing him tomorrow.
For every worthless hater here there are probably ten dozen good people that just shake their heads when they read trash like some of these comments. I don't have a twitch account but I'm sure I'll find out when you finally smash your level because it will be all over the gaming sites. When the inevitable hate comes, know that there will be a lot more people, including me and my son, that will be laughing and celebrating your achievement! You will be the undisputed King of Mario!
All the best and thanks very much for sharing the vids!
@Lionyone im guessing you feel similar towards speedrunners, who arguably spend even more time on one game? cause like any hobby you can still balance out time for work, friends, and general life with whatever you.
i dont think its fair to assume some worst case scenario for this guy, what do you truly know about circumstances to warrant any of that? from the looks of his twitter he seems to be faring just fine, and finds jabs at his mental state condescending
what about other people who've spent thousands of hours on their one hobby? people who've spent years gaming, drawing or playing instruments with no monetary benefit? is that a case of some broken soul too?
What a sad way to waste your life away honestly 🙄🙄🙄
Sometimes, people don’t like hearing hard truths.
Nobody is bad for feeling empathy for someone because they are concerned for their well-being. The comments surrounding his behavior are from people that want him to want more for himself than grinding a single video game level.
I’ve been there. As a person, I can be very intense, so I used to be the type to grind playing music in a practice room for 8 hours. Nobody really mentioned the imbalance to me, and I developed health problems that someone that young shouldn’t have, from malnutrition and lack of exercise.
I have demonstrated the same intensity with video games in the past. When we don’t know where to put our intensity, we put it in something like video games. For others, it’s something else.
I suggest finding other areas to put your intensity. Video games are fun, but reap little to no reward by themselves.
Society is changing a lot. We are going into a phase where “everything is ok, all things are good,” and I think that’s a severely imbalanced point of view because we start to accept unhealthy behaviors as normal.
I think it’s ok for us to look at each other and go dude, you do what?? Why??? I also think it’s ok to celebrate the great things and potential we have.
So, @chainchompbraden
Take it from a guy that has burned with the same intensity as you. It’s time to put that intensity into other things, or it will burn you out. I used my intensity incorrectly with music, and now I barely play anymore, which is a huge shame. Life has shown me other ways, and it will show you too, if you listen!
@boxyguy You guessed wrong. Does that make you condescending about me?!
Speedrunners and all the other hobbyists you mention are completely different because they're not stuck. They're moving within their hobby and they're constantly achieving new milestones. That's healthy and admirable.
Calling actual illness as illness isn't a jab. It's a description of reality.
@boxyguy I don’t think anybody puts videos games or music in the same category. I get what you’re trying to say, but I think it’s ok to acknowledge that doing anything in excess is imbalanced.
@ToadBrigade A legend? That’s a bit top-shelf for someone just grinding a Mario maker level.
@AndyC_MK84
Hello AndyC_MK84. I didn't realise my posting a comment would result in spam in my inbox. It seems like I will have to delete my account if I am to ensure that I am no longer bothered by petty little dwarfs like you in the future.
I will, however, give you a quick reply before I do. You asked me this: 'As a father, would you encourage your son if he decided to spend so much time obsessing over a single, essentially worthless pursuit? Even if it made him happy, would you not be concerned to see him spending an average of two hours a day, over five years, doing the exact same thing time after time? Or would you not be encouraging him to find other pursuits?'
In answer, I would simply say: it would depend on what else he was doing.
People spend hours on their hobbies, and lead happy, healthy lives. Some don't. To post nasty, personal comments about someone sharing a hobby without knowing anything else about that person's life is, frankly, utterly ridiculous. And spiteful.
It is true, however, that some pursuits are a waste of time.
Replying to trolls on the internet is most likely an example of this. I hope that sympathetic readers will excuse me for indulging in it just this one time, to point out what a presumptuous, one-eyed ass you are, when you had already provided more than enough proof of it yourself.
Good day to you.
Wow. The comments had no chill XD. I personally hope he can complete his goal, I would certainly say it's a goal of his but at only 2 hours a day not an obsession. If he's having fun with it then he's having fun with it, I suppose.
Doing the math, it equals approximately 2 hours per day. Everyone giving him hate over that needs to chill lmao. Its 2 hours a day playing something he loves. There's nothing wrong with that
@Silly_G
As a lover of English literature I have to hand it to you mate you’ve got a way with words!! Bravo
@ChainChompBraden
Whilst I see the point of view of your critics I also applaud your determination. Good luck to you buddy.
@HotGoomba___Rebrand Wrong. U is the best 2D Mario ever.
It's like you get better and better at Mario until the only way to get your fix is with this kind of insanity. I mean hats off to their amazing skill but I'm glad I suck at Mario.
@AndyC_MK84 so? If He isn't hurting you, himself, or anyone else who cares? I understand the concern but he gave no information saying he is hurting himself in any way
I have watched him try to complete this level a little bit here and there since about the 1,500 hour mark. It's oddly compelling.
And there is nothing wrong with attempting this... it's no different than someone who dedicates hundreds/thousands of hours to learning a musical instrument, learning to quickly solve a rubik's cube, whatever... It's just less understood.
He has stated numerous times that he is doing this because he wants to and enjoys it, not out of some dangerous compulsion. We have no reason not to believe him.
@AndyC_MK84 but he stated that it's something he genuinely enjoys. I put hundreds of hours shiny hunting pokemon, does that mean there's something wrong with me? Its something I enjoy doing. I put thousands of hours playing the main quest of fallout 4 since it came out because I enjoy it. I put hundreds of hours in destiny 2 grinding the nightfall strikes because I enjoy it. Like I said I understand the concern its great that someone is worried about him. I mean no hate to you just giving my opinion.
@JRRR92 Ahahhahahahqhahahahahahahhahaha no.
Super Mario Bros, 3, Land 2, and World (and New DS and Luigi) are the best 2D Marios.
U is just so BLAND, its not a bad game, but it lacks its own identity, has one new item, looks visually very similar to Wii, is disappointing for the first HD Mario game, and the Switch version costs way toox much even at $40! I mean you could argue that its expensive because New Luigi U (a much better game) is packed it, but those two games together cost $20 on the Wii U, and U Deluxe adds next to nothing to the game, so why is it $60!?
Interesting how many see: "man spends 3353 hours alone in a dark room"
instead of: "man spends 2 hours a day working towards a goal, learning skills, making friends, demonstrating unflinching dedication, and building up a potentially monetizable brand...while also living a normal life and accomplishing things within society".
Most people spend that same time aimlessly looking at information on a screen without any structure or long-term gain.
@ToadBrigade How is it toxic to point out that this guy is wasting his valuable time?
@Silly_G You should be ashamed of yourself being so judgemental. You owe this guy an apology.
Same goes for all of you.
This is a gaming website where gamers come to discuss games and the hobby they simetimes passionately enjoy. He chooses to spend a couple hours a day grinding a game he loves and ya'll are going to come at him like this? Grow up.
@AndyC_MK84 Not your place to say or judge. Grow up.
@AndyC_MK84 Apologize for the shaming the guy. He's not asking for ***** congratulations.
@AndyC_MK84 but with pokemon I already finished both sword and shield and the dlc for both with a full pokedex on both games. Shiny hunting is literally knocking a pokemon out repeatedly or biking in a circle hatching eggs. And no you don't "have a variety of not knowing what pokemon you're going to encounter" when your breeding. Shiny hunting is essentially the same idea as this. Doing the same thing over until you get the outcome you desire. I've spent about 8 months ish breeding for a shiny Dreepy. Its something I enjoy. Just like playing that level is something he enjoys. There's not a single thing wrong with that.
@AndyC_MK84
Many factory jobs have a lack of variety and take 8+ hours a day, possibly for over 20 years. There can be smaller tasks within them, but these are often minor variations like waiting for a different item to come down a conveyor belt. Creativity in society is built on top of repetitive mundanity. Or is the point that he should make more money in the process? Let me know your metrics.
Even if you argue the level is the same every time, his attention isn't 100% focused on the game. The Twitch channel structure and interactions with human beings provides that variety you seek.
The most obvious skill would be that he's learned level design skills replicable in game development. You not liking a goal does not alter the definition of the word, or that after accomplishing it his goal would remain online for all to see and hear his story.
@AndyC_MK84 not if it hurts anyone? Let him enjoy whatever the hell he wants to. Dont shame him for it
@AndyC_MK84 Thanks for agreeing with me on Mario U, but I think you need to stop arguing with random people on the internet, or else you will spend 3000+ hours arguing with people.
What a terrible and pointless waste of time of his life that he will never get back. Once he comes to his senses, if ever, he will immensely regret this.
What do you get once you beat the level? Nothing. You have not achieved anything, you have not created anything. Your life is still the same, without anything to show for it.
You guys are super toxic and ignorant like fr??? This thread is an absolute mess hating on bro because he’s enjoying a game and having a good time?? And if you read his comments anyways he said it equivalents to really 2 hours a day maybe??? He’s been doing this for 5 years ofc it’s gonna be some crazy # like this. Problem with people today is they can’t mind there own damn business and gotta direct and tell someone how they should be doing things (when 90% of the time the people speaking don’t even have their sh*t together).. let people do what they enjoy lmao
That's like four and a half months of solid play? o_o
@AndyC_MK84 lmao don't be stupid. No he shouldn't be shamed and you're an ***** for thinking so. If I had a friend who was obsessed with something like this I would shame him idc how much time he wasted, that doesn't help. So either you're joking or you just want to be toxic to this man for no reason.
@Silly_G I dont think you realize how ignorant, rude, and honestly quite stupid your comment is, how is he a danger to himself and how can you honestly wish he doesnt achieve his goal? What do you have against this guy? So what if he's put thousands of hours into it, he loves the grind and has fun with it, and he's not harming anybody so why do you honestly care? "he can be that compulsive over something so insignificant" everything's insignificant the world's gonna explode in 4.6 billion years, you writing that comment and honestly, everything you do in your daily life is insignificant, but I suppose your ego prevented that from dawning on you when you decided to spout your toxic holier-than-thou narcissist-driven superiority complex on the internet today. He's enjoying his life and isnt harming others, you clearly aren't.
So much hate and toxicity in this comment thread.
He has people in his own life, and you're not one of them. Mind your own business. If he needed help, someone who actually knows him would tell him he needs to stop.
It doesn't matter if it's healthy behavior or not. You don't know him. Stop acting like you do.
@holygeez03 No, learning a musical instrument is much different than wasting hours on a game. After you beat the game you have...satisfaction? After you spend years learning music you can actually make yourself more valuable. You can teach and perform, if you wish. Why people keep equating the two is beyond me, one is a skill, one is entertainment...entirely different.
@YoshiFlutterJump Yes, we will all mind our own business on this publicly shared forum, of a publicly viewable blog post. Smashing.
@SpacemanSpiff : I didn't insult the guy (like he did to me) nor did I pass judgement on him (as I have pointed out that I too have been susceptible to compulsive behaviour). Encouraging poor behaviour and life choices is not compassionate. You want to indulge him? Fine. But I have been around long enough to have reflected upon the topic and I have expressed sincere concern not just for him but for any person who find themselves engaging in compulsive behaviour and welcomed discussion on the topic (and for people to perhaps share their own experiences, should they feel comfortable doing so). I have my share of shortcomings to feel ashamed about, but pointing out that working on a video game level for 3,300 hours as being a bad idea is not one of them.
Sometimes you need to be firm with your words (and convictions) to help somebody, and I cannot help if my tough love is what you consider to be cruel, and perhaps our priorities are disparate, but unlike certain people here, I haven't insulted anybody for harbouring a different point of view, and can respectfully disagree without resorting to name-calling and affronts to one's character. And yet I am expected to grovel for repentance.
@Water_is_wet05 : How was I being "holier than thou"? I didn't condemn him and I didn't insult him. I took this as an opportunity to reflect on my own shortcomings (which is not what a person with a superiority complex would do, though we could all do with a little humility) as I stated in a subsequent comment. I too have wasted a lot of my time on silly compulsive endeavours not too dissimilar to the above (albeit not to such extremes), and my comments were intended to invite discussion and reflection on how we utilise our time, but let's digress so that you can tell more about what a horrible, evil, irredeemable, arrogant monster I am and how eager you would be to spit and dance on my grave had the opportunity presented itself, because if your hate-filled words are what you consider to be compassionate, then honey, you can keep it.
And unlike you and ChainChompBraden, I didn't resort to insults and personal attacks. I would have expressed the very same had it been somebody in my personal life who is squandering their valuable time in a similar fashion. And I make no apologies for not kneeling before somebody who spends thousands of hours to no benefit to themselves or others.
I suppose it serves me right for trying to invite intelligent conversation where I am surrounded by the perpetually indignant who seem incapable of comprehending points of view that do not correspond to the myopic lens of their prejudice. Perhaps that makes me the stupid one after all. Consider that a feather in the cap that is your ego.
@Water_is_wet05 You also forgot truthful. Spending hours honing a skill is one thing. Spending years honing a video game is honestly, stupid, by itself. When the real word comes knocking and it forces you to prioritize your life differently, all you basement dwellers that are still living with mum will get a wake up call.
@Silly_G I’m honestly not surprised by the negative response to your post. You spoke words of truth, but nobody likes hearing that. They would rather stick their fingers in their ears and shout nanana instead.
@Silly_G I mean... do you not see "I hope for his sake that he doesn't achieve his goal so that his ambition is put into perspective" as insulting or condemnation at all (not to mention you said that he'd wasted thousands of hours of his life)? Perhaps we have different interpretations idk but regardless, it's his life, not your own, and he's enjoying it, he has a life outside of Mario Maker and is able to balance earning a living while still doing what he loves, trying to beat Trials of Death. You seem to not be acknowledging the fact that what you said does not, in fact, need to be said, it didnt invite discussion at all, it only served as an attempt to invalidate the work he's put into the level as somehow a "bad" or, at the very least "needless" thing, also, something which I wish I'd mentioned earlier, you said what he was doing was insignificant... so what? How is that a bad thing? Playing video games is insignificant but it gives us joy and that's why we play them, you act as if everything we do must have some grander purpose and I seem to notice thats the one criticism of mine you didnt address in your response.
Also i didnt know where to fit this in the format of my response so ill just put it here, I only insulted you because I figured it could help bring you down to Earth, that's why I specifically called you a narcissist and other related words, I still stand by those though perhaps I could've phrased it in a less, for lack of any better term, "pretentious" way, I do apologize for that.
I'll leave with a quote, "Time you enjoyed wasting is time not wasted" - T.S. Elliot, he's having fun, dont belittle him it's very rude
@TG16_IS_BAE : And this topic only reinforces why I am strongly opposed to "achievement" systems in video games, as it encourages compulsive people to obsessively commit themselves to what should be a hobby that one does in their free time. Free to play games are also extremely problematic in this regard. Fun is fun, but compulsive behaviour is a problem that is scarcely spoken about in polite company.
And at its most extreme, compulsive behaviour can lead to tragedies such as parents neglecting their children (resulting in permanent damage to their health or death) and/or their own wellbeing due to people spending inordinate amounts of time compulsively trying to master what is, by design, impossible.
For example, I was OBSESSED with Pokémon Shuffle on 3DS for a time (it is my most played game on the console with about 880 hours clocked in). And I spent virtually every waking moment trying to make use of every heart that I was entitled to, so much so that it occasionally impeded upon my personal life. THAT is a problem. It is NOT praiseworthy despite what I have "accomplished" in the game (which amounts to nothing in the real world), and I even tried to justify spending money on the stupid game to myself (not much, mind you, but a few dollars too many all the same).
I speak for myself as I do for anybody else reading this (if I hadn't already made myself completely clear):
Mindless compulsive behaviour is NOT praiseworthy.
So I've caught 600ish Pokémon? Big deal. I've squandered 880 hours of my life compulsively trying to master a game designed to occupy countless hours of my time. Sure, I enjoyed it much of the time, but it was also quite frustrating and felt like a chore at the worst of times. I had eventually committed myself to giving it up, and man was it liberating.
And this is the sort of behaviour they are trying to defend? It is STUPID behaviour. And I drew from my own experience (and I wasn't even referring to Shuffle when I made my comments above either). And yet I am characterised as a nasty, arrogant POS for pointing it out. But I also believe that evil cannot be repelled with evil, so I know better than to reciprocate such insults.
It is unfortunate that people are so narrow-minded that they consider any dissent to their worldview to be an affront to their humanity. It's amazing. I love hearing about different points of view and I love hearing stories about the circumstances of people's upbringings, and ultimately, I think we will find that we have more in common with one another than we realise, and that we all have much to learn from one another given the broad variability of the human experience.
@Silly_G Agreed. There’s been a tonal shift in society towards “all things are ok,” and it’s shifting us to a point where people think mental illness or addiction are ok, as long as they aren’t hurting anyone else. They forget that when someone harms themselves, that someone is still hurting lol.
This article is the equivalent of an alcoholic taking his 5,000th shot for some world record. To each their own, I get that, but I reserve praise and respect for things that are actually respectable. I hope this guy gets his wake up call soon.
My friends and I were hooked on Everquest, back in the day. I used to skip work to group for raids and such. I played like that for about 3 years, because it took that long to recognize how much it was hurting my quality of life. I stopped playing, but my friends continued. One of them got so bad he called out sick for ten days straight so he could farm a specific item. Another started neglecting his wife, child, and professional life, ultimately leading to divorce and child custody problems.
I love games, but I love my wife, dogs, and professional career much more. The culture surrounding gaming right now is pretty unrealistic. Every company wants you playing their game and talking about it as much as possible, but there’s just too many.
I think what you said up there is perfectly reasonable, and anyone lashing out at your comment is actually lashing out because you pointed out something that may be effecting many others, and they just don’t want to hear it until it’s too late.
@TG16_IS_BAE : Thank you for sharing your experience. This is precisely the sort of conversation I was trying to cultivate, but that seems a tall order around here (aptly attributable to the societal shift that you have described). In my personal life, I sometimes like to bring up topics that people generally do not discuss in polite company. A particularly silly example is when I have raised the topic of bowel health. You would be amazed at how people are willing to open up about virtually any topic if you can cultivate an environment that invites discussion in a respectful and mature way, and bowel health is such a huge problem (especially for men) later in life, and in raising even the most squeamish of topics, I have learned a great deal, just as I hope that others have benefited from whatever little wisdom I may possess.
I am so glad to hear that you have overcome your compulsion, as I have a friend who, unfortunately, is in the middle of a divorce (which reminds me that I ought to check up on him). He is a compulsive type who praises "achievements" to high heaven, and I can see that his hobby impedes on certain aspects of his personal life. I often disparage him firmly but lovingly. He can also be really immature and annoying, but regardless of how disparate our personalities are, he is like a brother to me, and his own family an extension of my own. I would do him no favours to encourage his vices. It is easy to dismiss the long-term impact of compulsive behaviour when one is single (and/or living with their parents), but it can follow one long into their marriage and after they have had children to whom they are responsible.
It brings me no joy to say that I didn't see it coming. They are a beautiful family and I pray that they can work out their differences (or that my friend makes a concerted effort to change his ways), because I have seen with my own eyes that his wife has put so much more in to the marriage than he has, and despite his bumbling ways, I can see that she loves the doofus, but love alone will not sustain a marriage if a spouse is not fulfilling the obligations that their role in the relationship entails, and this is just one of the many ugly ways that compulsive behaviour can manifest itself if left unchecked.
Seems like some of you are still speaking ill of me, so I guess I'll leave off with one final response. Hopefully it doesn't end up being too long though. Wouldn't want to be told I'm wasting my time writing this.
I'm really not sure why some of you are being so judgemental towards me and trying to extrapolate my entire existence through the single thing you know about me. And only moments after learning of me no less. Trying to suggest that I need to prioritize my life differently is ridiculous considering you don't know anything about me. I attended and graduated from two schools all while this project went on. I don't owe any of you a description of my life, but there's the obvious example if you want to talk about "when real life comes knocking."
Maybe it isn't clear, but I've been streaming all my attempts of this level on Twitch. I've built up a large community of friends through this, and have remained in touch with many of them daily. Some of these are people I consider to be my closest friends that I would have otherwise never met. That alone has made this journey worth it, and I will never carry any regrets with me.
Should I throw in the fact that I've accumulated thousands of dollars for doing this too? Certainly you could point out that it's not enough to make a living off of, but I'm not claiming that to be the case. This is just an enjoyable hobby of mine that I can put a couple hours towards some days. How much money have you guys made complaining about people on the internet?
So don't judge me so mindlessly. I don't know anything about any of you either, but if I were to make my assessments based off of some of you through these single interactions, I probably wouldn't have very nice things to say either.
I think that's about all I have to say. If you still don't get it, then I don't want to hear it. I won't be leaving any further responses here.
@TG16_IS_BAE Actually, you are wrong. Video games are not simply entertainment and many do require skill. And these skills transfer to other tasks. There is a lot of research which shows the benefits of playing video games.... A Naughty Dog game may simply be entertainment, but Mario Kart improves driving skills.
I think Mario Maker is a great tool for potentially improving your problem solving skills and creativity. And playing extremely hard levels can improve your reflexes.
That said, learning a musical instrument is great as well.
@roboshort Ok, I’ve heard of those levels of research that show where gaming carries over, but they are all to very minor things, and the studies were all done with FPS games and only being played for 20-30 minutes.
You need something with more WEIGHT for it to carry over to more MEANINGFUL things in life. Learning an instrument permanently unlocks pathways in the brain that carry over to a multitude of other areas, including areas involving physical performance, such as weightlifting, dance or martial arts. All my clients that are musicians out-perform my weightlifting clients that are not, because they have a much better sense of internal timing. I encourage all my clients to take up music because of its many well documented benefits.
Video games improved a persons driving ability, for reaction time. That’s good! But again, that was with 20-30 minutes of FPS games.
Games can improve memory function, but those studies were conducted on people who do speed runs. Casual gaming, like watching TV, shows DEGENERATIVE effects on memory and muscle function. I.E. sitting around for 6 hours a day causes joint and low back pain, and will cause muscle atrophy. Studies revolving around Alzheimer’s show that DANCE helps memory function, and sitting around a TV helps Alzheimer’s to manifest in some populations.
You can’t seriously be defending that, can you?
@Silly_G It’s tough having chats like this on these forums, where trolls and the immature are prevalent. I’m blessed to have talked with you though. Sharing experiences like what you and I did may help someone else. The guy who is wasting his hours on the game level will hopefully come to grips with that.
It’s more useful to take such “obsessiveness” and turn it towards more useful and helpful things. I find I can channel my compulsion better into music, weightlifting, martial arts, helping a friend, listening to my wife...if I need to kick my feet up I still have games I enjoy, but life has so many moments to treasure that can be missed if we are only staring at screens.
It was really good to hear your experiences. I’m sure there are others who are less judgmental that will have heard your well intentioned message.
@ChainChompBraden Maybe you should touch base with Nintendo Life, and ask them to include such details as you graduating and such so that their article doesn’t paint you as someone obsessed with a single game level. Congrats on your 5 minutes of fame.
@TG16_IS_BAE
>You can’t seriously be defending that, can you?
This is a strawman argument.
There is a lot more research out there than what you are referring to and it is still a topic that is underresearched because there is a huge variety of video games that will have a variety of effects.
> Studies revolving around Alzheimer’s show that DANCE helps memory function, and sitting around a TV helps Alzheimer’s to manifest in some populations.
There've been studies that show playing certain types of video games could help with preventing Alzheimers as well.
I am not arguing against the benefits of musical instruments, dance, sports and so on but gaming can require fast reflexes, problem solving skills, memory.. the list goes on. Plus, you can also see benefits because it is fun (e.g. it can relieve stress)
@roboshort Quoting actual studies and their results is strawman? Sure fam, have fun with that.
I think after 5 years you ain't finishing that bro lol. I havnt read anything except this article, but how can he not complete it when he knows exactly how its set up?
I love WiiU news
I'm glad there is no poor Rubik's cube players in here..
This is a wonderful example of why you shouldn't let the players design levels. :3
I'd feel sorry for him if he manages to do it, get it uploaded, then 3 different people all beat the level within 30 minutes of play. Someone's super hard is another man's easy peasy bend the rules squeezey.
Wow. Lots of psychiatrists here.
@FluffiestP1llow No, some behavior should be shamed, it’s silly to devote that much attention to video games, when the world has so many more rich and meaningful experiences. If you just leave certain behavior alone, it can lead some people down darker paths. We help each other in unusual ways, sometimes you need to have a mirror held up and asked REALLY?! It’s called reality check. We all need it from time to time, nothing wrong with it!
@Zoda_Fett He’s been streaming it, and some of his streams go longer than 2 hours a day. But the obsessive will always seek to justify their behavior.
@HotGoomba___Rebrand The new SMB games are great, U being the best. NSMB U Deluxe being $60 is Nintendo being Nintendo.
@JRRR92 If you showed me a picture of New Super Mario Bros Wii and told me that it was a screenshot from New Super Mario Bros U, I would believe you
@HotGoomba___Rebrand If you can't differentiate between 480p and 720p, you're blind. Both games are gorgeous, there wasn't a need to change style.
@JRRR92 I was talking about other than the resolution, and it's not beautiful, it's bland, has little soul, and they could've had a change of Style to make them unique. I can't even tell the difference between their music. You have no idea how many people I've met who had confused the New Super games.
I'm not even a retro gamer and still think that SMB, SMB3, and SMWorld, even Land 1 + 2 & SMB2 at least had a change in style, music, challenge, features, and items.
The New Super series has no distinction between games. Within a 6 year timeline, very little changed between the games. If it was a yearly series, I would get it, but there was a 4 year gap between Wii and U, there's no reason they should be so similar.
Even Mario Galaxy 1 & 2 have very different gameplay, characters, and challenge, and those games had a 3 year gap, heck, even Mario 3D World and Odyssey had a 4 year gap, just like New Super Wii and New Super U, and while 3D World and Odyssey are completely different games, New Super Mario Bros U adds nothing to New Super Wii.
@TG16_IS_BAE no there isn't anything wrong with telling him hey maybe you should go do other things, that I entirely agree with. But if this is due to a mental illness you don't wanna just shame him like that that could make things possibly worse. Thats just my opinion, im not a doctor lol
@FluffiestP1llow That’s understandable, I think that’s a reasonable thing to assert.
@ChainChompBraden Dude. Just leave if you're going to. Stop coming back for attention
Also gotta love that you can't criticize anything anymore, or people start crying about "haters"
@TG16_IS_BAE i mean no disrespect to you! I appreciate your opinion on the matter. I think its best to hear what more people have to say on this. And I apologize to @AndyC_MK84 for being rude to him i didn't think before I said it. I deleted the scummy comments and I'm sorry. Have a good day guys!
@FluffiestP1llow You too! Thank you!
He should try playing on a CRT, zero input lag will give him what he is missing.
@HotGoomba___Rebrand NSMB U is fantastic. Beautiful art style, great level design. Classic Mario platformer. Best 2D Mario ever.
@JRRR92 You're literally just ignoring everything I'm saying.
@TG16_IS_BAE : The fact that a few seemingly inconsequential remarks have lead to this exchange has made it worth the petty indignation and insults in between, and for that, I am very grateful that our paths have crossed.
@Aprosey : The difference is that I have engaged in dialogue with other people, and raised what I believe to be pertinent philosophical arguments. I do not like engaging in idle chit-chat, so, had I seen my "like, two essays" to be a waste of time, I would not have bothered (and it didn't take me 3,300+ hours to do it ).
@HotGoomba___Rebrand Yes, I am. The game is awesome. Such is the whole series.
@JRRR92 What's even the point of talking to you.
At least other people I "argued" with on this website read my comments and either argued for them or against them. They even told me when the comment was too long.
You're just acting like a child just saying mAriO U iS tHE bESt without any prior evidence or response to my comment.
If you respond to me ONE MORE TIME just saying Mario U is the best Mario game with no further evidence, I'll block you, which you'll be the first person on Nintendo Life, Push Square, and Pure Xbox within the past year I've been on this site, so either shut up, tell me bye so we can end this peacefully, or say another stupid thing about New Super Mario Bros U that you already said, which will get you blocked.
I don't want to block anyone, but it's your choice.
It'd be obsession if he was playing someone else's level for that long, IMHO. The way I see it is that the fact that he's been tweaking it and making it harder over the years for the extra wow factor makes him an artist and an uncompromising perfectionist. He'll tweak the level until it hits his vision of peak kaizo, and run it with basically a speedrunner's mindset, even though he's constantly pushing the goalposts further out.
I totally understand it, though. Mad respect to him. This coming from someone who spent the better part of 2-4 hours a day for a month in 2008 pushing the GigaWing2 WR (Dreamcast). And I thought I was getting obsessed, never thinking "I can't do this", no matter how many times I reset or died. Eventually, I nailed down what I needed to do for 'optimal' and executed it...but I would get beaten by a rival of mine 4 months later and he ended up in the next Guinness book for 2009 (my original score was in the 2008 edition, but was hardly WR deserving). Anyway, I have no regrets spending that time ultimately for 'nothing'. I gained experience and a further love for the shoot-em-up genre. And I learned the original X-Arcade Solo stick has a massive amount of input lag (not 5 or 6 frames "massive/negligible", more like 12-15 frames).
I don't think he ever did.
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